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Griff's QB Mid-Season Rankings

#61

(10-24-2017, 04:03 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 03:40 PM)JackCity Wrote: As an athlete and a runner? He's definitely up with those two. As a passer he's already more advanced than Vick was at this point and more refined than Cam was.

I disagree but if this is the case he is a lock to go first overall
Which part do you disagree on? Vicks always had a big arm but he wasn't a good passer coming out at all. Never really developed into one either. Cam was a very good passer coming out.
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#62

(10-24-2017, 04:03 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 03:40 PM)JackCity Wrote: As an athlete and a runner? He's definitely up with those two. As a passer he's already more advanced than Vick was at this point and more refined than Cam was.

I disagree but if this is the case he is a lock to go first overall
Nobody would top Vick as a runner coming out but Jackson's is up there with him and Cam athletically, probably will run a 4.4 or so + his agility is magical. Does the NFL value that ? Probably not. 

Passing wise Vick was pretty limited coming out , Cam was a very good passer. I don't think Lamar is a better prospect than Cam but he's certainly closer to those two guys in terms of pure talent than anyone else. Hard to know what the NFL truly thinks of him.
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#63

(10-24-2017, 05:47 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 04:03 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I disagree but if this is the case he is a lock to go first overall
Which part do you disagree on? Vicks always had a big arm but he wasn't a good passer coming out at all. Never really developed into one either. Cam was a very good passer coming out.

None of them are your prototypical passer.  I dont think Jackson is as good a player as Cam or Vick coming out
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#64
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2017, 06:13 PM by FreeAgent01.)

(10-24-2017, 05:24 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 05:06 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: He is probably more athletic than both.  He has RG3's athleticism, except he breaks tackles like a behemoth like Cam.  His arm looks like he received an arm transplant staright from Vick, except right handed.  High praise, but I honestly believe he is by far the most gifted runner at quarterback to ever enter the draft.  He has an elite arm and is an above average passer.

If all this is true, he is a lock to go at 1 overall.  Not gonna happen though because this isnt true.  He has a big arm but not on Vicks level and he isnt as fast as Vick either.  Cam and Tebow are better runners because of there size, if Jackson tries to run in the pros like he does in college he will be on IR before you know it.

Well, it's going to impossible to prove arm strength in comparison to Vick so we can just agree to disagree there. As far as speed, Vick is probably a little faster in terms of straight line speed, but Jackson is much shiftier and infinitely better at breaking tackles. Vick was estimated at probably a 4.33 40 guy while Jackson is probably around 4.40ish, similar to RG3.

Potential injuries that haven't happened yet aside, Jackson in comparison to Vick, Newton, and Tebow averages more yards, yards per carry, and touchdowns than all of them. Cam's size hasn't helped him too much with injuries, either.
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#65

(10-24-2017, 05:59 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 05:24 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: If all this is true, he is a lock to go at 1 overall.  Not gonna happen though because this isnt true.  He has a big arm but not on Vicks level and he isnt as fast as Vick either.  Cam and Tebow are better runners because of there size, if Jackson tries to run in the pros like he does in college he will be on IR before you know it.

Well, it's going to impossible to prove arm strength in comparison to Vick so we can just agree to disagree there.  As far as speed, Vick is probably a little faster in terms of straight line speed, but Jackson is much shiftier and infinitely better at breaking tackles.  Vick was estimated at probably a 4.33 40 guy while Jackson is probably around 4.40ish, similar to RG3.

Potential injuries that haven't happened yet aside, Jackson in comparison to Vick, Newton, and Tebow averages more yards, yards per carry, and touchdowns than both of them.  Cam's size hasn't helped him too much with injuries, either.
Vick ran 4.25
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#66
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2017, 06:08 PM by FreeAgent01.)

(10-24-2017, 05:54 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 05:47 PM)JackCity Wrote: Which part do you disagree on? Vicks always had a big arm but he wasn't a good passer coming out at all. Never really developed into one either. Cam was a very good passer coming out.

None of them are your prototypical passer.  I dont think Jackson is as good a player as Cam or Vick coming out

Seriously with Vick? Vick was drafted purely on potential. Vick's senior year he threw for 1200 yards on 54% passing for 8 tds and 6 ints... Rushing wise he rushed for about a third of the yards and touchdowns and less yards per carry...

(10-24-2017, 06:04 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 05:59 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: Well, it's going to impossible to prove arm strength in comparison to Vick so we can just agree to disagree there.  As far as speed, Vick is probably a little faster in terms of straight line speed, but Jackson is much shiftier and infinitely better at breaking tackles.  Vick was estimated at probably a 4.33 40 guy while Jackson is probably around 4.40ish, similar to RG3.

Potential injuries that haven't happened yet aside, Jackson in comparison to Vick, Newton, and Tebow averages more yards, yards per carry, and touchdowns than both of them.  Cam's size hasn't helped him too much with injuries, either.
Vick ran 4.25

That was hand recorded and pre electronic timing. Do you really believe guys like Ahman Green ran 4.15s?
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#67

(10-24-2017, 05:59 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 05:24 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: If all this is true, he is a lock to go at 1 overall.  Not gonna happen though because this isnt true.  He has a big arm but not on Vicks level and he isnt as fast as Vick either.  Cam and Tebow are better runners because of there size, if Jackson tries to run in the pros like he does in college he will be on IR before you know it.

Well, it's going to impossible to prove arm strength in comparison to Vick so we can just agree to disagree there.  As far as speed, Vick is probably a little faster in terms of straight line speed, but Jackson is much shiftier and infinitely better at breaking tackles.  Vick was estimated at probably a 4.33 40 guy while Jackson is probably around 4.40ish, similar to RG3.

Potential injuries that haven't happened yet aside, Jackson in comparison to Vick, Newton, and Tebow averages more yards, yards per carry, and touchdowns than both of them.  Cam's size hasn't helped him too much with injuries, either.
Say what?  Cam has only missed 3 games in his career, you have no clue what you are talking about.  If he was Jackson's size he would of had multiple seasons where he ended on IR, he would probably be in the same boat and Teddy and RG3.  lol, his size hasn't helped him too much, haha.  No other QB in the league could take the beating cam does
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#68
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2017, 06:21 PM by FreeAgent01.)

Cam is a tough [BLEEP] dude, but he has been injured multiple times. You do realize he just had shoulder surgery and is limping along this season with a noodle arm, right?

He also missed an entire season in college from an injury. In the pro's he's torn his rotator cuff, broken his foot, torn ligaments in his ankle, broken ribs, had multiple concussions... But nope, he's been the picture of good health.
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#69
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2017, 06:22 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(10-24-2017, 06:05 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 05:54 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: None of them are your prototypical passer.  I dont think Jackson is as good a player as Cam or Vick coming out

Seriously with Vick?  Vick was drafted purely on potential.  Vick's senior year he threw for 1200 yards on 54% passing for 8 tds and 6 ints...  Rushing wise he rushed for about a third of the yards and touchdowns and less yards per carry...

(10-24-2017, 06:04 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Vick ran 4.25

That was hand recorded and pre electronic timing.  Do you really believe guys like Ahman Green ran 4.15s?

He threw for 1200 yards and had only 8 TDs because he got hurt that year.  The year before he led Virginia Tech to the Nation Championship against Fl. St.  and was 3rd in the Heisman race.  I dont look at stats.  If you just look at stats in college thats number 1 rule for your downfall.  Vick went first overall for a reason, if Jackson is as good as prospect as you say he is he will be a lock to go 1st overall.  I dont even think he goes top 10, I just hope he is drafted before we pick.  We shall see.

(10-24-2017, 06:17 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: Cam is a tough [BLEEP] dude, but he has been injured multiple times.  You do realize he just had shoulder surgery and is limping along this season with a noodle arm, right?

He also missed an entire season in college from an injury.  In the pro's he's torn his rotator cuff, broken his foot, torn ligaments in his ankle, broken ribs, had multiple concussions...  But nope, he's been the picture of good health.

He still plays?  Do you know who Brett Favre is?
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#70

(10-24-2017, 06:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 05:59 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: Well, it's going to impossible to prove arm strength in comparison to Vick so we can just agree to disagree there.  As far as speed, Vick is probably a little faster in terms of straight line speed, but Jackson is much shiftier and infinitely better at breaking tackles.  Vick was estimated at probably a 4.33 40 guy while Jackson is probably around 4.40ish, similar to RG3.

Potential injuries that haven't happened yet aside, Jackson in comparison to Vick, Newton, and Tebow averages more yards, yards per carry, and touchdowns than both of them.  Cam's size hasn't helped him too much with injuries, either.
Say what?  Cam has only missed 3 games in his career, you have no clue what you are talking about.  If he was Jackson's size he would of had multiple seasons where he ended on IR, he would probably be in the same boat and Teddy and RG3.  lol, his size hasn't helped him too much, haha.  No other QB in the league could take the beating cam does

(10-24-2017, 06:21 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 06:05 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: Seriously with Vick?  Vick was drafted purely on potential.  Vick's senior year he threw for 1200 yards on 54% passing for 8 tds and 6 ints...  Rushing wise he rushed for about a third of the yards and touchdowns and less yards per carry...


That was hand recorded and pre electronic timing.  Do you really believe guys like Ahman Green ran 4.15s?

He threw for 1200 yards and had only 8 TDs because he got hurt that year.  The year before he led Virginia Tech to the Nation Championship against Fl. St.  and was 3rd in the Heisman race.  I dont look at stats.  If you just look at stats in college thats number 1 rule for your downfall.  Vick went first overall for a reason, if Jackson is as good as prospect as you say he is he will be a lock to go 1st overall.  I dont even think he goes top 10, I just hope he is drafted before we pick.  We shall see.

(10-24-2017, 06:17 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: Cam is a tough [BLEEP] dude, but he has been injured multiple times.  You do realize he just had shoulder surgery and is limping along this season with a noodle arm, right?

He also missed an entire season in college from an injury.  In the pro's he's torn his rotator cuff, broken his foot, torn ligaments in his ankle, broken ribs, had multiple concussions...  But nope, he's been the picture of good health.

He still plays?  Do you know who Brett Favre is?

Vick got hurt at the end of the year and missed two games... Did you expect him to throw for another 3000 yards in his last two games? For real, man...

It's hard to argue with you because you jump around all over the place dodging facts. I claim size hasn't helped Cam with injuries and list more than half a dozen serious injuries and your reply is... Because Brett Favre...
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#71

(10-24-2017, 06:28 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 06:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Say what?  Cam has only missed 3 games in his career, you have no clue what you are talking about.  If he was Jackson's size he would of had multiple seasons where he ended on IR, he would probably be in the same boat and Teddy and RG3.  lol, his size hasn't helped him too much, haha.  No other QB in the league could take the beating cam does

(10-24-2017, 06:21 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: He threw for 1200 yards and had only 8 TDs because he got hurt that year.  The year before he led Virginia Tech to the Nation Championship against Fl. St.  and was 3rd in the Heisman race.  I dont look at stats.  If you just look at stats in college thats number 1 rule for your downfall.  Vick went first overall for a reason, if Jackson is as good as prospect as you say he is he will be a lock to go 1st overall.  I dont even think he goes top 10, I just hope he is drafted before we pick.  We shall see.


He still plays?  Do you know who Brett Favre is?

Vick got hurt at the end of the year and missed two games...  Did you expect him to throw for another 3000 yards in his last two games?  For real, man...

It's hard to argue with you because you jump around all over the place dodging facts.  I claim size hasn't helped Cam with injuries and list more than half a dozen serious injuries and your reply is... Because Brett Favre...

There are tons of players that play with injuries.  My point is Jackson wont be able to take half the punishment Cam does. He will have injuries that will make him miss multiple games and seasons that will end on IR because of his build.
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#72

Based on what proof? He's never been injured and therefore there is no track record about whether he would or wouldn't play through injuries.
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#73

(10-24-2017, 05:54 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2017, 05:47 PM)JackCity Wrote: Which part do you disagree on? Vicks always had a big arm but he wasn't a good passer coming out at all. Never really developed into one either. Cam was a very good passer coming out.

None of them are your prototypical passer.  I dont think Jackson is as good a player as Cam or Vick coming out
Vick had 8 passing TDs and 6 interceptions his last year in college, 54% , threw for 1200 yards.... 

Cam was a better prospect.
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#74

Lamar Jackson's passing scheme is more complex than several NFL passing schemes this year. So we can relax on the "can't run a pro scheme" and "can't read a defense stuff".

Big arm, great in the middle of the field, elite running and on the move , good timing, smart, great leader.

Can't miss prospect. Don't overthink it..
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#75

(10-25-2017, 09:09 AM)JackCity Wrote: Lamar Jackson's passing scheme is more complex than several NFL passing schemes this year. So we can relax on the "can't run a pro scheme" and "can't read a defense stuff".

Big arm, great in the middle of the field, elite running and on the move , good timing, smart, great leader.

Can't mi4ss prospect. Don't overthink it..
Well it doesn't really matter for us then because he is a lock to go 1st overall if he is the prospect you say he is.  Just glad he will be gone before we pick
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#76

(10-25-2017, 03:34 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 09:09 AM)JackCity Wrote: Lamar Jackson's passing scheme is more complex than several NFL passing schemes this year. So we can relax on the "can't run a pro scheme" and "can't read a defense stuff".

Big arm, great in the middle of the field, elite running and on the move , good timing, smart, great leader.

Can't mi4ss prospect. Don't overthink it..
Well it doesn't really matter for us then because he is a lock to go 1st overall if he is the prospect you say he is.  Just glad he will be gone before we pick

Unfortunately the best QB doesn't always go first and also unfortunately I'm only a meer fan.    

He's not near a lock for first overall despite his great talent. No QB is this year.
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#77
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2017, 05:35 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(10-25-2017, 05:13 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 03:34 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Well it doesn't really matter for us then because he is a lock to go 1st overall if he is the prospect you say he is.  Just glad he will be gone before we pick

Unfortunately the best QB doesn't always go first and also unfortunately I'm only a meer fan.    

He's not near a lock for first overall despite his great talent. No QB is this year.

Vick and Cam both went 1st because they were elite prospects.  Nobody ever knows what type a player one will be. If GMs think he is better or even as good as Cam or Vick like you say, he is a lock to go first. I dont think he is the elite prospect as those 2 because he isnt the player either. We will find out on draft day.
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#78

(10-25-2017, 05:32 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 05:13 PM)JackCity Wrote: Unfortunately the best QB doesn't always go first and also unfortunately I'm only a meer fan.    

He's not near a lock for first overall despite his great talent. No QB is this year.

Vick and Cam both went 1st because they were elite prospects.  Nobody ever knows what type a player one will be.  If GMs think he is better or even as good as Cam or Vick like you say, he is a lock to go first.  I dont think he is the elite prospect as those 2 because he isnt the player either.  We will find out on draft day.
These are all givens though. I thought Deshaun Watson was an elite prospect but he didn't go #1. I thought Mahomes was an elite prospect but he didn't go #1.  Elite prospects don't always go #1 or where they are supposed to. 

He's already a better passer than Vick was at this point and comparable as a runner and athlete so yeah I'd call him a better prospect than Vick. Cam is and was a better passer coming out. He isn't quite as good as him.
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#79

(10-25-2017, 06:50 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 05:32 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Vick and Cam both went 1st because they were elite prospects.  Nobody ever knows what type a player one will be.  If GMs think he is better or even as good as Cam or Vick like you say, he is a lock to go first.  I dont think he is the elite prospect as those 2 because he isnt the player either.  We will find out on draft day.
These are all givens though. I thought Deshaun Watson was an elite prospect but he didn't go #1. I thought Mahomes was an elite prospect but he didn't go #1.  Elite prospects don't always go #1 or where they are supposed to. 

He's already a better passer than Vick was at this point and comparable as a runner and athlete so yeah I'd call him a better prospect than Vick. Cam is and was a better passer coming out. He isn't quite as good as him.

You thought Mahomes and Watson were elite prospects?
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#80

Lamar Jackson is 90% of Vick's toolset (which isn't a knock), but with better size and he actually cares about studying the game.
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