It makes you wonder how much you even watched him play to say he comes from the most pro-style offense of pretty much any QB

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Pro-style offense =/= taking snaps under center...which is what I think you are trying to say. Heavy shotgun is the norm for most teams now.

Louisville's offense had Lamar doing more complex route concepts, pre snap reads, and audibling/adjusting than the other QBs. Almost every evaluator you read will say that.

Bingo.

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It makes you wonder how much you even watched him play to say he comes from the most pro-style offense of pretty much any QB

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Pro-style offense =/= taking snaps under center...which is what I think you are trying to say. Heavy shotgun is the norm for most teams now.

Louisville's offense had Lamar doing more complex route concepts, pre snap reads, and audibling/adjusting than the other QBs. Almost every evaluator you read will say that.

Nothing like the way Louisville does it.  What NFL teams run their offense the way that the Cards do with Jackson?  Car. Is the only team thats even close.  He has even stated that he changed his offense to fit what Jackson can do best, which is run.  The only thing pre snap Jackson really does is decide if he wants to take off and run the ball.  Watch a Louisville game, if that looks like a pro style offense to you I don't know what to say.  The offense he runs in college will never work for him.  He would be on IR by mid season, he doesn't have the body type like a Cam Newton or a Tebow, won't be able to take that many hits

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It makes you wonder how much you even watched him play to say he comes from the most pro-style offense of pretty much any QB

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Pro-style offense =/= taking snaps under center...which is what I think you are trying to say. Heavy shotgun is the norm for most teams now.

Louisville's offense had Lamar doing more complex route concepts, pre snap reads, and audibling/adjusting than the other QBs. Almost every evaluator you read will say that.

http://www.espn.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/9...ar-jackson

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I'm sorry, but if a quarterback like Lamar Jackson is there at the end of the first, I'm taking a chance. This team has ignored the qb position far too long.

If I had my way we would take a quarterback nearly every year in the top 3-5 rounds and see what develops.

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There is no way that we're drafting Lamar Jackson.  The Jags are doing everything possible to incorporate a pro style offense in the 1980's mold so drafting Jackson would totally go against their long term strategy.  The team that drafts Jackson needs to think open offense that rely's on a Darren Sproles / Reggie Bush type RB to spread the field.

Except Jackson comes from the most pro-style offense of almost any QB in this draft.

The dude ran it 35% of their plays --> Jackson rushes 232 vs 430 passing attempts 

In comparison Mariota ran the ball 135 times vs 445 passing attempts (23%) and RGIII ran it 179 times vs 402 passing attempts (31%)

All of the above fall into the read/option category in college and Jackson is more comparable to RGIII as he relies on the run vastly more than the others.

Personally, I really don't mind LJ and would be intrigued if we drafted him BUT i just don't think he fits the Coughlin/Marrone vision.  If he did, I don't think we would have gone with Fournette last season because the 2 styles contrast one another.

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Pro-style offense =/= taking snaps under center...which is what I think you are trying to say. Heavy shotgun is the norm for most teams now.

Louisville's offense had Lamar doing more complex route concepts, pre snap reads, and audibling/adjusting than the other QBs. Almost every evaluator you read will say that.

Nothing like the way Louisville does it.  What NFL teams run their offense the way that the Cards do with Jackson?  Car. Is the only team thats even close.  He has even stated that he changed his offense to fit what Jackson can do best, which is run.  The only thing pre snap Jackson really does is decide if he wants to take off and run the ball.  Watch a Louisville game, if that looks like a pro style offense to you I don't know what to say.  The offense he runs in college will never work for him.  He would be on IR by mid season, he doesn't have the body type like a Cam Newton or a Tebow, won't be able to take that many hits

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Pro-style offense =/= taking snaps under center...which is what I think you are trying to say. Heavy shotgun is the norm for most teams now.

Louisville's offense had Lamar doing more complex route concepts, pre snap reads, and audibling/adjusting than the other QBs. Almost every evaluator you read will say that.

http://www.espn.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/9...ar-jackson

Rosen and Lamar have the most complex offenses out of all the QBs this year. They have the most NFL type concepts and require a higher level of mental processing than the rest.  

And no Lamar has the ability to change calls pre snap, run motions, adjust to safeties alignment etc etc. Which is something most college QBs don't get to do.     

He's one of the best running QBs we've ever seen. It would be malpractice to NOT run him like that. Particularly with the Louisville Oline being so bad. 

Important to look at Lamar and be able to parse the traits which translate to the NFL , be able to look at the offense and see how it resembles and NFL one and also acknowledge that Lamar isn't going to run as much as that in the NFL at all.     

Which college QBs over the last few years have ran an offense with more NFL concepts than Lamar over the years? Theres been a few but I'm interested to hear your take on them.

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Teaming up Lamar Jacksonville with Leonard Fournette is the obvious choice.  I wouldn't even consider any other options if Lamar is the board when we pick at 29.

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Nothing like the way Louisville does it.  What NFL teams run their offense the way that the Cards do with Jackson?  Car. Is the only team thats even close.  He has even stated that he changed his offense to fit what Jackson can do best, which is run.  The only thing pre snap Jackson really does is decide if he wants to take off and run the ball.  Watch a Louisville game, if that looks like a pro style offense to you I don't know what to say.  The offense he runs in college will never work for him.  He would be on IR by mid season, he doesn't have the body type like a Cam Newton or a Tebow, won't be able to take that many hits

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http://www.espn.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/9...ar-jackson

Rosen and Lamar have the most complex offenses out of all the QBs this year. They have the most NFL type concepts and require a higher level of mental processing than the rest.  

And no Lamar has the ability to change calls pre snap, run motions, adjust to safeties alignment etc etc. Which is something most college QBs don't get to do.     

He's one of the best running QBs we've ever seen. It would be malpractice to NOT run him like that. Particularly with the Louisville Oline being so bad. 

Important to look at Lamar and be able to parse the traits which translate to the NFL , be able to look at the offense and see how it resembles and NFL one and also acknowledge that Lamar isn't going to run as much as that in the NFL at all.     

Which college QBs over the last few years have ran an offense with more NFL concepts than Lamar over the years? Theres been a few but I'm interested to hear your take on them.

That's my point, Lamar won't be able to run in the pros like he did in college.  His offense is so pro style it is the total opposite of what teams run in the pros.  Should of seen the Miss. St game.  Make him thow and that's what happens, same thing NFL teams will do

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Rosen and Lamar have the most complex offenses out of all the QBs this year. They have the most NFL type concepts and require a higher level of mental processing than the rest.  

And no Lamar has the ability to change calls pre snap, run motions, adjust to safeties alignment etc etc. Which is something most college QBs don't get to do.     

He's one of the best running QBs we've ever seen. It would be malpractice to NOT run him like that. Particularly with the Louisville Oline being so bad. 

Important to look at Lamar and be able to parse the traits which translate to the NFL , be able to look at the offense and see how it resembles and NFL one and also acknowledge that Lamar isn't going to run as much as that in the NFL at all.     

Which college QBs over the last few years have ran an offense with more NFL concepts than Lamar over the years? Theres been a few but I'm interested to hear your take on them.

That's my point, Lamar won't be able to run in the pros like he did in college.  His offense is so pro style it is the total opposite of what teams run in the pros.  Should of seen the Miss. St game.  Make him thow and that's what happens, same thing NFL teams will do

No their passing game is very close to the pros. They just had added packages to take advantage of him as a runner as well as his ability to turn a broken play into a 50 yard TD.   


He played very bad against Miss. St and still ran for 158 yards. So they didn't "make him throw".  

Clemson held him to 3.8 ypc. He threw for 300+ and 3 TDs. 50% completion but many of them were drops and against one of the best defenses in college. With no Oline against the 2nd best front 4 in CFB.   

As a freshman (2015) FSU held him to 1.7 ypc. 32 yards total running. What did he do? Threw for 300+ and 3 TDs. And we all know the caliber of players on that team.

Which QBs over the last few drafts have ran a more complex passing offense? You skipped the Q...

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Except Jackson comes from the most pro-style offense of almost any QB in this draft.

The dude ran it 35% of their plays --> Jackson rushes 232 vs 430 passing attempts 

In comparison Mariota ran the ball 135 times vs 445 passing attempts (23%) and RGIII ran it 179 times vs 402 passing attempts (31%)

All of the above fall into the read/option category in college and Jackson is more comparable to RGIII as he relies on the run vastly more than the others.

Personally, I really don't mind LJ and would be intrigued if we drafted him BUT i just don't think he fits the Coughlin/Marrone vision.  If he did, I don't think we would have gone with Fournette last season because the 2 styles contrast one another.

Just for transparency what are those numbers for someone like Watson when he was at Clemson?

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

The dude ran it 35% of their plays --> Jackson rushes 232 vs 430 passing attempts 

In comparison Mariota ran the ball 135 times vs 445 passing attempts (23%) and RGIII ran it 179 times vs 402 passing attempts (31%)

All of the above fall into the read/option category in college and Jackson is more comparable to RGIII as he relies on the run vastly more than the others.

Personally, I really don't mind LJ and would be intrigued if we drafted him BUT i just don't think he fits the Coughlin/Marrone vision.  If he did, I don't think we would have gone with Fournette last season because the 2 styles contrast one another.

Just for transparency what are those numbers for someone like Watson when he was at Clemson?

D. Watson ran the ball 165 times vs 579 passing attempts (22%)

Note:  I based everyone's stats on the final year in college since that is the year that most players are more fully developed to look for the pass versus tucking the ball and running.

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A couple takeaways taken from this article written by a former QB coach in response from Bill Polian’s comments.

 It’s 2018, and we’re doing it again with Jackson.


There have been white quarterbacks who converted into receivers, but those prominent college QBs were actual run-first quarterbacks. Nebraska’s Eric Crouch had more college carries than pass attempts, while Jackson had nearly the opposite in 2017. Jackson had almost as many throws in three years as Crouch and Arkansas’ Matt Jones had in a combined eight.

Here are two sets of statistics:

• Player A: 59.1 percent completion, 3,660 yards, 27 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 8.7 adjusted yards per attempt, 1,601 yards rushing, and 18 rushing touchdowns in a Power 5 conference.
  
  
• Player B: 56.3 percent completion, 1,812 yards, 16 touchdowns, six interceptions, 6.9 adjusted yards per attempt, 204 yards rushing, and five rushing touchdowns in Group of 5 conference.
  

You would pick Player A over Player B without hesitation. Player A is Jackson, whom the Anonymous Scout types say should be moved to receiver, while Player B is Josh Allen, who is projected by Mel Kiper at No. 1 overall. 


.......................

Because Jackson is a running threat every time he touches the ball, you would assume his college offense was an RPO system.


I did not see a lot of one-read RPOs. Noted motorcycle enthusiast and Louisville head coach Bobby Petrino’s passing attack is built off quick game concepts and a more developed dropback game. This wasn’t USC running a ton of bubble screens and RPOs.


[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]I would not be surprised if he runs more RPOs in the NFL than he did at Louisville.[/font]

https://mobile.twitter.com/pff_neil/stat...89792?s=12


https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/20/16928...e-receiver

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That's my point, Lamar won't be able to run in the pros like he did in college.  His offense is so pro style it is the total opposite of what teams run in the pros.  Should of seen the Miss. St game.  Make him thow and that's what happens, same thing NFL teams will do

No their passing game is very close to the pros. They just had added packages to take advantage of him as a runner as well as his ability to turn a broken play into a 50 yard TD.   


He played very bad against Miss. St and still ran for 158 yards. So they didn't "make him throw".  

Clemson held him to 3.8 ypc. He threw for 300+ and 3 TDs. 50% completion but many of them were drops and against one of the best defenses in college. With no Oline against the 2nd best front 4 in CFB.   

As a freshman (2015) FSU held him to 1.7 ypc. 32 yards total running. What did he do? Threw for 300+  and 3 TDs. And we all know the caliber of players on that team.

Which QBs over the last few drafts have ran a more complex passing offense? You skipped the Q...

Really none of the QBs have run a pro style offense that i can think of as of late but Jackson is probably the furthest from it with his QB options and designed QB runs.  He

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No their passing game is very close to the pros. They just had added packages to take advantage of him as a runner as well as his ability to turn a broken play into a 50 yard TD.   


He played very bad against Miss. St and still ran for 158 yards. So they didn't "make him throw".  

Clemson held him to 3.8 ypc. He threw for 300+ and 3 TDs. 50% completion but many of them were drops and against one of the best defenses in college. With no Oline against the 2nd best front 4 in CFB.   

As a freshman (2015) FSU held him to 1.7 ypc. 32 yards total running. What did he do? Threw for 300+  and 3 TDs. And we all know the caliber of players on that team.

Which QBs over the last few drafts have ran a more complex passing offense? You skipped the Q...

Really none of the QBs have run a pro style offense that i can think of as of late but Jackson is probably the furthest from it with his QB options and designed QB runs.  He

What kind of offenses do you think the NFL runs these days?

"Pro style" in college refers to being under center. Actual pro style as in what the NFL uses is primarily shotgun spread.

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Backup tackle for 2018? Not a fan of his at all, even if it's as potential Parnell successor.

Lol backup

Sorry just saw this. Yeah he'd be a backup in 2018. He wouldn't start over Cam or Parnell.

---

A couple takeaways taken from this article written by a former QB coach in response from Bill Polian’s comments.

 It’s 2018, and we’re doing it again with Jackson.


There have been white quarterbacks who converted into receivers, but those prominent college QBs were actual run-first quarterbacks. Nebraska’s Eric Crouch had more college carries than pass attempts, while Jackson had nearly the opposite in 2017. Jackson had almost as many throws in three years as Crouch and Arkansas’ Matt Jones had in a combined eight.

Here are two sets of statistics:

• Player A: 59.1 percent completion, 3,660 yards, 27 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 8.7 adjusted yards per attempt, 1,601 yards rushing, and 18 rushing touchdowns in a Power 5 conference.
  
  
• Player B: 56.3 percent completion, 1,812 yards, 16 touchdowns, six interceptions, 6.9 adjusted yards per attempt, 204 yards rushing, and five rushing touchdowns in Group of 5 conference.
  

You would pick Player A over Player B without hesitation. Player A is Jackson, whom the Anonymous Scout types say should be moved to receiver, while Player B is Josh Allen, who is projected by Mel Kiper at No. 1 overall. 


.......................

I don't like either one. Neither could even get to the minimum cutoff rate of 60% passes completed. That is very telling for me.

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In this video I'm noticing that the few times he actually does throw, he has a guy streaking wide open eiher downfield over the middle. At no point do you see him throwing into a tight window. When it comes to a guy potentially starting, you want a guy who can make all the throws or at least most of the throws. I sense from this that Lamar only has a few throws that he's able to make.

Watching this reminds me of watching Matt Jones' highlights when we drafted him, only Matt Jones was faster.

Watch this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/patrickclaybo...twterm%5E3


A lot of these passes Lamar is throwing the WR open in addition to fitting the ball into tight windows.

There were a few nice throws in there including a couple where the placement was spot on where only WR could get it, however, a majority of these throws were the same as I described above. That is, he's simply lobbing it downfield to a guy streaming wide open downfield.

I will say I like the look of his passes. His motion is quick and high as it should be, and his passes demonstrate nice arc and touch.  That said, I still don't think he can make all the throws.

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'02

A couple takeaways taken from this article written by a former QB coach in response from Bill Polian’s comments.

I don't like either one. Neither could even get to the minimum cutoff rate of 60% passes completed. That is very telling for me.

Did you see the part about his 12% drop rate? Highest out of all the top rated QBs.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

The issue here is that every QB has flaws but yet Jackson is being told he should move to WR. Just because he’s fast?

If the right team gets a hold of him, watch out. If it’s the Jags, how in the world could you stop Jackson and Fournette? We run the option a lot out of shotgun and Jackson would be elite the second he steps in the field.

He’s got things he needs to work on but they all do. Jackson should be in the conversation with all the top QBs.

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I thought I'd check out some game tapes on Lamar Jackson. I prefer game tapes over highlights because you see the good and the bad.

This is his game vs Florida State, and it's a must watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_g64bV3ed4

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'02

I don't like either one. Neither could even get to the minimum cutoff rate of 60% passes completed. That is very telling for me.

Did you see the part about his 12% drop rate? Highest out of all the top rated QBs.

I don't care. Drops are a part of the game. Even with the drops, these QB's should at least hit 60%.

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The issue here is that every QB has flaws but yet Jackson is being told he should move to WR. Just because he’s fast?

If the right team gets a hold of him, watch out. If it’s the Jags, how in the world could you stop Jackson and Fournette? We run the option a lot out of shotgun and Jackson would be elite the second he steps in the field.

He’s got things he needs to work on but they all do. Jackson should be in the conversation with all the top QBs.

No, it has nothing to do with him being fast. He struggles with his passes from the pocket and more importantly he is rail thin. If you saw him in his uniform and never saw him play, you'd swear he was a WR or a tall DB. Guys with physiques like this just don't hold up as QB's in the NFL, especially when a big part of their success depends upon them running the ball.

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