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Knife-wielding attackers kill 29, injure 130 at China train station

#21

Wasnt there a huge gun attack in texas only a couple of months ago? I may be remembering wrong, there are so many it is hard to keep up.

This doesn't happen in australia at all thankfully common sense laws were brought in
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#22

(02-18-2018, 02:59 AM)lastonealive Wrote: Wasnt there a huge gun attack in texas only a couple of months ago? I may be remembering wrong, there are so many it is hard to keep up.

This doesn't happen in australia at all thankfully common sense laws were brought in

Why don't you move there, then? And I don't ask that to be flippant, I'm just always genuinely curious as to why people who point out countries that, in their opinion, do things better than here still live here. Australia also has history of outright banning art and music they don't deem appropriate. Mama Government will keep you safe from guns, bad thoughts and naughty words there.
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#23

(02-18-2018, 04:37 AM)Jagsfan4life9/28/82 Wrote:
(02-18-2018, 02:59 AM)lastonealive Wrote: Wasnt there a huge gun attack in texas only a couple of months ago? I may be remembering wrong, there are so many it is hard to keep up.

This doesn't happen in australia at all thankfully common sense laws were brought in

Why don't you move there, then? And I don't ask that to be flippant, I'm just always genuinely curious as to why people who point out countries that, in their opinion, do things better than here still live here. Australia also has history of outright banning art and music they don't deem appropriate. Mama Government will keep you safe from guns, bad thoughts and naughty words there.

He lives there.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#24

(02-18-2018, 02:59 AM)lastonealive Wrote: Wasnt there a huge gun attack in texas only a couple of months ago? I may be remembering wrong, there are so many it is hard to keep up.

This doesn't happen in australia at all thankfully common sense laws were brought in

Time you set honesty to "On."

How many Spree Shootings were there in Australia before the Port Arthur Massacre?

How do you classify events such as the 2002 Melbourne University attack or the 2014 Sydney Siege so that they aren't considered to be Mass Shooting events?

The answer to the first is "7" since 1971. Hardly an epidemic.

The answer to the second is "we modified the thresholds for categorization to improve the outcomes of our law." This is exactly the same kind of funny math that's used to say the USA has poorer health outcomes and mortality rates than other countries. The truth is not the numbers, but how the numbers are compiled.

So, Australia enacted a draconian law, to address a problem that really didn't exist, modified the measures of the law's success to inflate the quantifiable results, and then Aussies come to America and puff out their chests about how smart they are.

More importantly, the mass shootings in Australia prior to 1971 overwhelmingly were enacted by the government against the people of Australia, something the "gun culture" of the USA is designed to prevent. Hence the words of our Founders like Thomas Jefferson and Noah Webster:

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776 


Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution
, October 10, 1787


And of course, for the fools who think the 2nd Amendment wasn't encoded to preserve and individual right, there's this simple statement of fact:

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788


But I wouldn't expect you to understand such sentiments since your Daddy Government does all the thinking for you. There's actually a really germane quote about you and your country, made by Pitt the Younger:

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783


Since we know you aren't the tyrant, then you find yourself as the latter.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#25

(02-18-2018, 09:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(02-18-2018, 04:37 AM)Jagsfan4life9/28/82 Wrote: Why don't you move there, then? And I don't ask that to be flippant, I'm just always genuinely curious as to why people who point out countries that, in their opinion, do things better than here still live here. Australia also has history of outright banning art and music they don't deem appropriate. Mama Government will keep you safe from guns, bad thoughts and naughty words there.

He lives there.

Okay, my bad, then. His concern from abroad is touching.
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#26
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2018, 03:24 PM by jj82284.)

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

Which amazingly details the real world tangible inverse correlation between gun ownership and violent crime.  

It would be easier to abolish gun free zones, than to abolish guns:

"When terrorists attacked a school in Maalot in 1974, Israel did not declare every school a gun-free zone. It passed a law mandating armed security in schools, provided weapons training to teachers and today runs frequent active shooter drills. There have been only two school shootings since then, and both have ended with teachers killing the terrorists"
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#27

(02-18-2018, 03:13 PM)jj82284 Wrote: "When terrorists attacked a school in Maalot in 1974, Israel did not declare every school a gun-free zone. It passed a law mandating armed security in schools, provided weapons training to teachers and today runs frequent active shooter drills. There have been only two school shootings since then, and both have ended with teachers killing the terrorists"

Except no teacher in Israel is actually armed and there are no guns in any classroom, instead Israeli law requires schools to have armed guards specifically trained in handling firearms. Also Isreali gun laws make it exceedingly difficult for anyone to actually obtain a gun, in fact using many of the restrictions you people say don't work. This is in addition to the fact that Israel has mandatory military service meaning every citizen is trained in proper firearm technique and safety.   

Source: http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/ta...fault.aspx
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#28

(02-18-2018, 05:01 PM)DragonFury Wrote:
(02-18-2018, 03:13 PM)jj82284 Wrote: "When terrorists attacked a school in Maalot in 1974, Israel did not declare every school a gun-free zone. It passed a law mandating armed security in schools, provided weapons training to teachers and today runs frequent active shooter drills. There have been only two school shootings since then, and both have ended with teachers killing the terrorists"

Except no teacher in Israel is actually armed and there are no guns in any classroom, instead Israeli law requires schools to have armed guards specifically trained in handling firearms. Also Isreali gun laws make it exceedingly difficult for anyone to actually obtain a gun, in fact using many of the restrictions you people say don't work. This is in addition to the fact that Israel has mandatory military service meaning every citizen is trained in proper firearm technique and safety.   

Source: http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/ta...fault.aspx
Devil advocate... more training and more guns=less crime? Nearly 9% of the Israeli population is active in the military and carrying an "assault rifle" in public at all times and armed guards at school campuses. It sounds like it isn't restrictions working, but precisely what some are saying will work: a public show of force.
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#29

(02-18-2018, 02:59 AM)lastonealive Wrote: Wasnt there a huge gun attack in texas only a couple of months ago? I may be remembering wrong, there are so many it is hard to keep up.

This doesn't happen in australia at all thankfully common sense laws were brought in

LOL.  Common sense laws?  Is that all it takes?

How about if we send over everyone convicted here of a gun offense?  Without access to guns, they should all blend into your society and become model citizens overnight.  I'm sure you'll enjoy having them in your neighborhood and you know they won't be any trouble at all.
When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.
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#30

So what you are saying is the us is full of bad people but their aren't any here in Australia.

So what causes that? Social inequality?
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#31

(02-18-2018, 05:18 PM)B2hibry Wrote:
(02-18-2018, 05:01 PM)DragonFury Wrote: Except no teacher in Israel is actually armed and there are no guns in any classroom, instead Israeli law requires schools to have armed guards specifically trained in handling firearms. Also Isreali gun laws make it exceedingly difficult for anyone to actually obtain a gun, in fact using many of the restrictions you people say don't work. This is in addition to the fact that Israel has mandatory military service meaning every citizen is trained in proper firearm technique and safety.   

Source: http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/ta...fault.aspx
Devil advocate... more training and more guns=less crime? Nearly 9% of the Israeli population is active in the military and carrying an "assault rifle" in public at all times and armed guards at school campuses. It sounds like it isn't restrictions working, but precisely what some are saying will work: a public show of force.

And every single one of those 9% has been extensively checked, mentally, physically and psychologically and then trained in proper gun safety and handling. More importantly; Israel only allows those with a specific and approved reason to carry firearms (either because they're military or private security or niche purposes like Olympic sport shooting). Don't have a purpose or can't pass a background check? No gun for you. That's a far cry from the "a gun in every classroom" rhetoric I see pop up after the monthly school shooting.

If the US wants put in place a system of laws and requirements like Israel has or maybe something similar to Switzerland then that would be fine, but this idea that the solution to gun violence is more guns is preposterous.
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#32

(02-18-2018, 05:01 PM)DragonFury Wrote:
(02-18-2018, 03:13 PM)jj82284 Wrote: "When terrorists attacked a school in Maalot in 1974, Israel did not declare every school a gun-free zone. It passed a law mandating armed security in schools, provided weapons training to teachers and today runs frequent active shooter drills. There have been only two school shootings since then, and both have ended with teachers killing the terrorists"

Except no teacher in Israel is actually armed and there are no guns in any classroom, instead Israeli law requires schools to have armed guards specifically trained in handling firearms. Also Isreali gun laws make it exceedingly difficult for anyone to actually obtain a gun, in fact using many of the restrictions you people say don't work. This is in addition to the fact that Israel has mandatory military service meaning every citizen is trained in proper firearm technique and safety.   

Source: http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/ta...fault.aspx

Had u read the article u would have seen that the recent trend in Israel is toward the "well regulated militia" and not away from it.  They are moving towards allowing more and more private ownership of weapons.  

As for mandatory military service, not everyone is trained as infantry.  Most fire less than 100 rounds.  That's a far cry from everyone being a green beret and even the staunchest gun advocates believe in firearm training.
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#33

"Enter Israel: When the knife intifada erupted in September 2015, the Israeli government's response was to ease the process for the civilian populace to obtain weapons. After a particularly bloody Jerusalem shooting attack that killed four, then-Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan drastically changed the gun laws in order to significantly raise the number of armed civilians on the streets. Instantly, graduates of Special Forces units and IDF officers with the rank of Lieutenant and above were permitted to purchase guns at their will, security guards were allowed to bring their guns home after work, and the minimum age for a license was reduced from 21 to 18.
Erdan explained that "civilians well trained in the use of weapons provide reinforcement in the struggle against terrorism", while Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat called for every resident to carry a gun, and was even photographed traveling the city carrying a Glock 23.
In addition, the overwhelming majority of terror attacks in Israel are stopped by armed civilians, not law enforcement. For example, the terrorists in the 2016 Sarona market attack were stopped by armed passersby. A pistol-carrying tour guide put an end to the 2017 ramming attack in Arnona that left four soldiers dead.
In Israeli eyes, guns are a valuable deterrent against terrorism. In fact, terrorists have told the Shin Bet internal security service that they often target haredi Jews due to the high likelihood that they are unarmed.
Gun control supporters would answer that the mandatory military service that every Israeli undergoes justifies the trust Israel has of its citizens. However, this argument doesn't hold water. The vast majority of IDF soldiers aren't combat soldiers and are certified as 02 riflemen. To be 02 requires one to shoot between 40 and 70 bullets. The pistol course needed to obtain a license takes less than four hours. It is a far cry from the highly trained population that the Left imagines.
Gun control has been proven to be a dismal failure in Israel. The Israeli Arab communities are rife with illegal weapons, with some police estimates putting the number of unlicensed weapons in the Arab sector as high as 500,000. Think about that for a second: The most heavily guarded borders in the world and a highly professional Shin Bet are still not enough to prevent criminals from obtaining illegal firearms."
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#34

These arguments are absurd. Why not just be honest and say you like owning guns and dont want to give them up?

You will look like a selfish douche but at least not look ridiculous
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#35

(02-18-2018, 06:56 PM)lastonealive Wrote: These arguments are absurd. Why not just be honest and say you like owning guns and dont want to give them up?

You will look like a selfish douche but at least not look ridiculous

If it’s absurd, refute the points that have been made.
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#36

(02-18-2018, 06:56 PM)lastonealive Wrote: These arguments are absurd. Why not just be honest and say you like owning guns and dont want to give them up?

You will look like a selfish douche but at least not look ridiculous

Are u seriously proposing confiscation?
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#37

(02-18-2018, 07:07 PM)jj82284 Wrote:
(02-18-2018, 06:56 PM)lastonealive Wrote: These arguments are absurd. Why not just be honest and say you like owning guns and dont want to give them up?

You will look like a selfish douche but at least not look ridiculous

Are u seriously proposing confiscation?

Projecting much there?
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#38

(02-18-2018, 06:00 PM)lastonealive Wrote: So what you are saying is the us is full of bad people but their aren't any here in Australia.

What he's saying is the US is the only country in the world where random mass shootings happen regularly. Note by the way, that I didn't say "only developed country" or "only Western country", you're literally the only country in the entire world where random mass shootings are an issue. You have more mass shootings in a month than most countries have in a decade. You're also the only country where guns are the way they are. Now correlation does not imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'.
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#39

(02-18-2018, 06:56 PM)lastonealive Wrote: These arguments are absurd. Why not just be honest and say you like owning guns and dont want to give them up?

You will look like a selfish douche but at least not look ridiculous

I have a right to my guns and will never willingly surrender them to anyone.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#40
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2018, 08:09 PM by B2hibry.)

(02-18-2018, 07:24 PM)DragonFury Wrote:
(02-18-2018, 06:00 PM)lastonealive Wrote: So what you are saying is the us is full of bad people but their aren't any here in Australia.

What he's saying is the US is the only country in the world where random mass shootings happen regularly. Note by the way, that I didn't say "only developed country" or "only Western country", you're literally the only country in the entire world where random mass shootings are an issue. You have more mass shootings in a month than most countries have in a decade. You're also the only country where guns are the way they are. Now correlation does not imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'.
Highly exaggerated stroke to insist no other country has mass shootings (3+). Your point may have been better served stating only developed or Western nations. Genocide and ethnic cleansing still occur by gun in numerous countries. On the flipside, there are currently countries deep into civil wars where the citizens could not fight back against a corrupt government.
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