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When do we look to draft defense?

#21

(02-21-2018, 11:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-21-2018, 11:16 PM)realtorpat Wrote: I'm hoping to go OG/OT,CB, TE in the first 3 rounds.  After that DL, OL, LB, S

Uhhh...... we're gonna need a QB in there somewhere.
I roll with Bortles. Worst case I keep Henne at backup.  I'd rather not roll the dice at all the mid tier qbs that are going to get overpaid and only 1-3 will be worth it.  I don't want to overpay for Cousins and we pick late enough that I wouldn't address it in the draft.  Mason Rudolph is the last qb i would take and he will be overdrafted too.  If we cut Henne I'd be okay with Cody Kessler, or Fitzpatrick as a backup. 

I use that fa qb money to keep Arob and see if Bortles takes a giant leap forward.
Go Jags!
*To stay up for atleast 2 years 3/6/17
2016 draft players I think will be good
  • On the Fournette train, will be best back of his class 3/6/17
  • Lattimore please,  Lockdowns on both sides would be nice
  • Engram at TE and the MJD clone Samaje Perine
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#22

(02-21-2018, 11:50 PM)knarnn Wrote:
(02-21-2018, 11:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Uhhh...... we're gonna need a QB in there somewhere.


I believe Poz is gone and I am not a huge fan of Blair Brown as a starter.
[Image: 20170525-mylesjack.jpg]

I think he is better suited to play the strong side.
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#23

(02-22-2018, 12:12 AM)realtorpat Wrote:
(02-21-2018, 11:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Uhhh...... we're gonna need a QB in there somewhere.
I roll with Bortles. Worst case I keep Henne at backup.  I'd rather not roll the dice at all the mid tier qbs that are going to get overpaid and only 1-3 will be worth it.  I don't want to overpay for Cousins and we pick late enough that I wouldn't address it in the draft.  Mason Rudolph is the last qb i would take and he will be overdrafted too.  If we cut Henne I'd be okay with Cody Kessler, or Fitzpatrick as a backup. 

I use that fa qb money to keep Arob and see if Bortles takes a giant leap forward.

I'm all for letting Bortles play out his contract this season and seeing what happens, but we're still gonna need to draft a guy. Henne has to go. He's completely overpaid for what he is. If we bring in Kessler or Fitzpatrick as a backup and Bortles doesn't get any better or even worse yet, reverts to his 2016 form, what do we do? With what you are proposing, we'd have no backup plan. Looking at the FA QB's who will be available in 2019 as well as that QB draft class, it looks completely barren. I certainly don't wanna be looking for a starting QB in 2019, but we have to be realistic. Bortles might not improve and we have to have something to fall back on. That means drafting a QB on the first or second day of the draft.
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#24

(02-21-2018, 11:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-21-2018, 11:16 PM)realtorpat Wrote: I'm hoping to go OG/OT,CB, TE in the first 3 rounds.  After that DL, OL, LB, S

Uhhh...... we're gonna need a QB in there somewhere.

(02-21-2018, 11:22 PM)knarnn Wrote: Please tell me why you think we have a need at MLB?

I believe Poz is gone and I am not a huge fan of Blair Brown as a starter.

He won't be a starter.  Again, our nickel cornerback (Colvin) played 67% of the defensive snaps, while our third linebacker played 46%, a number skewed by 3 games where he had to start in place of Telvin.  Our starting LBers are Telvin and Jack, spending high draft capital on a LB that will play barely 40% of the snaps baring injury is foolish.  Unless the team is planning on allowing Jack to leave, then it may make some sense to draft one in the 2nd/3rd round.
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#25

(02-21-2018, 03:59 PM)Andy G Wrote: We all expect this to be an offense-heavy draft, but if the right players are available, when do we start to consider defensive players?

It might be a good year to look for Colvin’s replacement for instance.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/tracker/position/cb

Or do we go all-offense at all costs?

The draft is like picking teams in grade school P.E. I was always a captain and I always won. The reason is I picked the best football players. I didn't care who played what position. We could sort that out after the two sides were determined. My only concern was to get the best football players on my side.

For a GM in the NFL it's a little more complicated, but not really. The trick is to understand colleges slip in weight-lifters, track racers, basketball players, and maybe even convert a quarterback from the baseball squad. The best NFL GMs refrain from any of those and they stick to picking the best football players.

Think of it this way, at times Jaylen Ramsey has to play like a 6-5 279 Lbs. defensive end. Myles Jack has to play like a 5-9 187 Lbs. corner back. There are times when Calais Campbell has had to back-pedal away from the line of scrimmage and cover a short zone as a linebacker does. The reason they can is they're football players and they never stray too far away from the simplicity of football is a game played with a inflated ball between two sides.


So I guess I mean to say don't worry too much about drafting offense or defense, just make sure the Jaguars are selecting the best football players available each time they pick. You raise the level of talent by identifying and selecting the best football players. When you have enough talented football players on your side, you win.
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#26
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2018, 07:28 AM by TheO-LineMatters.)

Another guy I like a lot for the Nickle corner role is Jalen Davis of Utah State. I normally don't like smaller corners, but at 5'10" this kid is like a human highlight film. he is a ballhawk with legit track speed. He shows excellent instincts and finished the season with 5 picks, 5 tackles for loss and 15 passes defended. I believe he could be had somewhere in the late 3rd to 4th round and fit very well in our system.

https://youtu.be/3vL_dT-tKHM
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#27

If we’re hoping to get a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round who is a day one starter ahead of Bortles, we are going to be disappointed.

If we are picking one outside round one it will be a player to develop and not the missing piece of the jigsaw that takes us to the superbowl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#28

(02-22-2018, 07:21 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Another guy I like a lot for the Nickle corner role is Jalen Davis of Utah State. I normally don't like smaller corners, but at 5'10" this kid is like a human highlight film. he is a ballhawk with legit track speed. He shows excellent instincts and finished the season with 5 picks, 5 tackles for loss and 15 passes defended. I believe he could be had somewhere in the late 3rd to 4th round and fit very well in our system.

https://youtu.be/3vL_dT-tKHM


Interesting. I was looking at maybe taking a stab at the Eagles nickel back Patrick Robinson. He might be even better than Colvin, although I'm thinkinhe might be a little cheaper because he's 31. Colvin is only 27 but might get paid by someone else to start outside.  I'm leary of any rookie CB outside of the first two rounds starting from day one, but Jalen just might have what it takes to do that. Only, might having too many CBs names Jalen get confusing? We have Myrick too.

At MLB we have to do something. We could re-sign Poz although I can see the Packers going after him among others, and I don't believe the Jaguars care to spend too much on him. If they're going to spend money, they may want someone younger which is why I'm looking at Avery Williamson from the Titans. Get the younger version of Poz in FA so we can get Lamar in round one and a TE in round two. At G, I'm looking at free agents Pugh and Omameh so we don't necessarily need a starter in the draft.


(02-22-2018, 09:14 AM)Andy G Wrote: If we’re hoping to get a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round who is a day one starter ahead of Bortles, we are going to be disappointed.

If we are picking one outside round one it will be a player to develop and not the missing piece of the jigsaw that takes us to the superbowl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Even if we get Lamar Jackson in round one, I don't expect him to be a day one starter over Blake. I'm thinking Blake plays out his $19 mil contract with Lamar backing him up, and then a year from now we'll take a look at where both are at and make a decision.

'02
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#29

4th and 6th rounds is my short answer to the OP.
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#30
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2018, 01:05 PM by knarnn.)

(02-22-2018, 12:55 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-21-2018, 11:50 PM)knarnn Wrote: [Image: 20170525-mylesjack.jpg]

I think he is better suited to play the strong side.

Our most athletic and agile linebacker is better suited to set the edge and stack the line and only take about 40% of all the defensive snaps?


OK!
"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."
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#31

(02-22-2018, 12:45 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: 4th and 6th rounds is my short answer to the OP.

Agree, I thunk we need to go offense the first 3 rounds.  I thunk you will get better value drafting offense as well as u think this draft is much deeper on offense than defense.  Thus is one of the more weaker drafts on defense that I can remember
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#32

(02-22-2018, 05:08 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-22-2018, 12:45 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: 4th and 6th rounds is my short answer to the OP.

Agree, I thunk we need to go offense the first 3 rounds.  I thunk you will get better value drafting offense as well as u think this draft is much deeper on offense than defense.  Thus is one of the more weaker drafts on defense that I can remember
One of the deepest drafts we've seen at linebacker. Secondary is really deep too. Interior and edge about average.
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#33

(02-22-2018, 05:14 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-22-2018, 05:08 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Agree, I thunk we need to go offense the first 3 rounds.  I thunk you will get better value drafting offense as well as u think this draft is much deeper on offense than defense.  Thus is one of the more weaker drafts on defense that I can remember
One of the deepest drafts we've seen at linebacker. Secondary is really deep too. Interior and edge about average.

Lb is pretty deep, corner isn't as good as it's been the last few years nor is safetey.  Interior and edge also isn't as good as I was in the last few drafts
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#34

(02-22-2018, 06:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-22-2018, 05:14 PM)JackCity Wrote: One of the deepest drafts we've seen at linebacker. Secondary is really deep too. Interior and edge about average.

Lb is pretty deep, corner isn't as good as it's been the last few years nor is safetey.  Interior and edge also isn't as good as I was in the last few drafts

Yep corners aren't as good as the last 3 insanely talented years. Compared to the last 10-15 drafts it's very strong.  Safety is very good.   

Interior wise Vea and Hurst would be the first 2 DTs taken the last 3 years.  EDGE pretty average bar Chubb and Landry.   

All round a very deep defensive draft with lots of QBs, lots of RBs, very good interior Oline and lots of #2/3 receivers.
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#35

(02-22-2018, 06:15 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-22-2018, 06:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Lb is pretty deep, corner isn't as good as it's been the last few years nor is safetey.  Interior and edge also isn't as good as I was in the last few drafts

Yep corners aren't as good as the last 3 insanely talented years. Compared to the last 10-15 drafts it's very strong.  Safety is very good.   

Interior wise Vea and Hurst would be the first 2 DTs taken the last 3 years.  EDGE pretty average bar Chubb and Landry.   

All round a very deep defensive draft with lots of QBs, lots of RBs, very good interior Oline and lots of #2/3 receivers.

All this is, is your opinion and nothing more.  We really wont know how good the class is untill a few years down the road.  As bad as you want to be KYjaggy, you are not on his level and especially when it comes to SPARQ and Spider Charts.  I dont think safety is all that great either, would take the last 3-4 years safety class over this one any day.  Leonard Wiliams, DeForest Buckner, Sheldon Rankins, and Jonathan Allen would of all been locks to go ahead of Vea and Hurst if all came out in the same class.  Then there are a few others that might have like Arik Armstead and Danny Shelton who came from the same school as Vea and possibly a better NT prospect.  RB isnt as strong the last few years, TE is very good as was last years. Interior online is very deep and I think the receiver class will be the position that surprises people the most.  A few underrated WR in this class.
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#36
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2018, 08:15 PM by JackCity.)

(02-22-2018, 07:15 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-22-2018, 06:15 PM)JackCity Wrote: Yep corners aren't as good as the last 3 insanely talented years. Compared to the last 10-15 drafts it's very strong.  Safety is very good.   

Interior wise Vea and Hurst would be the first 2 DTs taken the last 3 years.  EDGE pretty average bar Chubb and Landry.   

All round a very deep defensive draft with lots of QBs, lots of RBs, very good interior Oline and lots of #2/3 receivers.

All this is, is your opinion and nothing more.  We really wont know how good the class is untill a few years down the road.  As bad as you want to be KYjaggy, you are not on his level and especially when it comes to SPARQ and Spider Charts.  I dont think safety is all that great either, would take the last 3-4 years safety class over this one any day.  Leonard Wiliams, DeForest Buckner, Sheldon Rankins, and Jonathan Allen would of all been locks to go ahead of Vea and Hurst if all came out in the same class.  Then there are a few others that might have like Arik Armstead and Danny Shelton who came from the same school as Vea and possibly a better NT prospect.  RB isnt as strong the last few years, TE is very good as was last years. Interior online is very deep and I think the receiver class will be the position that surprises people the most.  A few underrated WR in this class.

Read the first sentence of what you wrote and then read the rest. This is all opinion based, don't take it personally. I know you are a little sore after the Tebow discussion.

RB class is possibly the best we have seen..shades of the 2014 WR class. 

Yeah I'd actually agree on Williams/Buckner/ Rankin's.  

Safety wise Minkah and Derwin are the best safety prospects over the last 4 years not named Adams and Hooker. I like the safety group.

All in all its deep at the spots we need which is great for us.

Interior
Slot CB
TE
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#37
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2018, 09:01 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(02-22-2018, 08:12 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-22-2018, 07:15 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: All this is, is your opinion and nothing more.  We really wont know how good the class is untill a few years down the road.  As bad as you want to be KYjaggy, you are not on his level and especially when it comes to SPARQ and Spider Charts.  I dont think safety is all that great either, would take the last 3-4 years safety class over this one any day.  Leonard Wiliams, DeForest Buckner, Sheldon Rankins, and Jonathan Allen would of all been locks to go ahead of Vea and Hurst if all came out in the same class.  Then there are a few others that might have like Arik Armstead and Danny Shelton who came from the same school as Vea and possibly a better NT prospect.  RB isnt as strong the last few years, TE is very good as was last years. Interior online is very deep and I think the receiver class will be the position that surprises people the most.  A few underrated WR in this class.

Read the first sentence of what you wrote and then read the rest. This is all opinion based, don't take it personally. I know you are a little sore after the Tebow discussion.

RB class is possibly the best we have seen..shades of the 2014 WR class. 

Yeah I'd actually agree on Williams/Buckner/ Rankin's.  

Safety wise Minkah and Derwin are the best safety prospects over the last 4 years not named Adams and Hooker. I like the safety group.

All in all its deep at the spots we need which is great for us.

Interior
Slot CB
TE

Give me last years RB class alone over this years class any day.

I think Fitzpatrick will play corner but even if you count him a safetey there still isnt much left compared to last years safety class.  Adams and Hooker, then you had Peppers, Baker, Maye, Marcus Williams, Melifonwu, Desmond King, and Eddie Jackson who are all better prospects and will be better pros than the next tier in this draft.  2016 with Ramsey, Karl Joseph, and Keanu Neal, Bell and Bynard.  Yep, ill take that class too

I do agree with you on the slot corner though, the nickle corner might be the best we have seen in a while with guys like Duke Dawson, Darious Williams, and Darius Phillips. Interior and TE is stacked pretty good too. The corner class is pretty good all around
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#38
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2018, 09:37 PM by JackCity.)

(02-22-2018, 08:57 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-22-2018, 08:12 PM)JackCity Wrote: Read the first sentence of what you wrote and then read the rest. This is all opinion based, don't take it personally. I know you are a little sore after the Tebow discussion.

RB class is possibly the best we have seen..shades of the 2014 WR class. 

Yeah I'd actually agree on Williams/Buckner/ Rankin's.  

Safety wise Minkah and Derwin are the best safety prospects over the last 4 years not named Adams and Hooker. I like the safety group.

All in all its deep at the spots we need which is great for us.

Interior
Slot CB
TE

Give me last years RB class alone over this years class any day.

I think Fitzpatrick will play corner but even if you count him a safetey there still isnt much left compared to last years safety class.  Adams and Hooker, then you had Peppers, Baker, Maye, Marcus Williams, Melifonwu, Desmond King, and Eddie Jackson who are all better prospects and will be better pros than the next tier in this draft.  2016 with Ramsey, Karl Joseph, and Keanu Neal, Bell and Bynard.  Yep, ill take that class too

I do agree with you on the slot corner though, the nickle corner might be the best we have seen in a while with guys like Duke Dawson, Darious Williams, and Darius Phillips.  Interior and TE is stacked pretty good too.  The corner class is pretty good all around

I think you are mixing the different arguments here sir. I way prefer those safety classes too. My argument on safeties is just that Minkah and Derwin are the best two safety prospects not named Adams and Hooker over the last 4 years. Ramsey was more of a cornerback prospect. Believe Minkah will play S/nickel hybrid like Honey Badger does. Overall a strong safety group.  

Yeah I honestly wouldn't mind if we took a slot corner in the 2nd/3rd. Having Ramsey and Bouye is all well and good but if we have a sieve at slot it's gonna make life difficult.
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#39

(02-22-2018, 09:30 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-22-2018, 08:57 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Give me last years RB class alone over this years class any day.

I think Fitzpatrick will play corner but even if you count him a safetey there still isnt much left compared to last years safety class.  Adams and Hooker, then you had Peppers, Baker, Maye, Marcus Williams, Melifonwu, Desmond King, and Eddie Jackson who are all better prospects and will be better pros than the next tier in this draft.  2016 with Ramsey, Karl Joseph, and Keanu Neal, Bell and Bynard.  Yep, ill take that class too

I do agree with you on the slot corner though, the nickle corner might be the best we have seen in a while with guys like Duke Dawson, Darious Williams, and Darius Phillips.  Interior and TE is stacked pretty good too.  The corner class is pretty good all around

I think you are mixing the different arguments here sir. I way prefer those safety classes too. My argument on safeties is just that Minkah and Derwin are the best two safety prospects not named Adams and Hooker over the last 4 years. Ramsey was more of a cornerback prospect. Believe Minkah will play S/nickel hybrid like Honey Badger does. Overall a strong safety group.  

Yeah I honestly wouldn't mind if we took a slot corner in the 2nd/3rd. Having Ramsey and Bouye is all well and good but if we have a sieve at slot it's gonna make life difficult.
We started out talking about classes, back pedaling a bit when i lay out the classes as a whole.  Ramsey was every bit of the safety prospect Minkah is and more, Ramsey done all of that.  He played safety his sophmore year and most analyst had him listed as a safety leading up to the draft.
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#40

I can't see the Jags going defense in rounds 1 or 2 unless they decide to select a free agent tight end and/or offensive lineman. After that, they will look for the BAP regardless of whether it is offense or defense. Despite their great defense, they can use another linebacker and replacement for Colvin.
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