1)  Tell your nephew I said thanks for his military service.
2)  Source doesn't really matter if the information is wrong.  
3)  What points?  You asked questions.  I answered them.  
4)  What answer did you find so insulting?
5)  Speaking of insults, what technical "point" of an AR-15's performance was the lotion and paper towels question intended to address?

The lotion and paper towel comment was a comment outside the AR-15 discussion, and at no point did I say my entire post was technical. The poetic ways some of you gun enthusiasts describe your guns does sound like an almost erotic attraction. Not an insult, I don't judge, just asking about details. It's remarkable.

I'm not really sure how all your points are in rebuttal to mine. Heck, some confirmed it, such as the recoil comparison. Are you telling me you can get several shots off without re-aiming with a 30-06 as you can an AR-15. You can tell me my nephew is clueless all you want, but that is a common sense comparison I've seen made in several articles. So were the points he made to me about the foregrip.

I freely admit I don't know much about guns, but it seems to me this would be much easier to shoot a lot of kids in a crowded hallway with this...



...than this...


...especially if the shooter is inexperienced.

Recoil is dependant on many factors like the type of round, barrel design/length, muzzle brake, recoil buffer, and gas versus inertia feed systems. Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea that shooting an AR style rifle doesn't require getting back on target or aiming. Any weapon that produces felt recoil needs you to get back on target, to include a .22 caliber rifle. As far as your AR to 30-06 comparison they are equally as deadly in a crowded hallway. Semi-auto is semi-auto is semi-auto. A bit different when comparing to a bolt action. The fore-grip accessory as in the picture of a full-size AR platform is detrimental to accurate shooting. Any qualified rifleman or marksman will tell you as such. Honestly, the only reason they exist is that of all the additional crap we added to the weapons system that interferes with proper purchase on the handguard (light, laser, infrared illuminator, etc.) Even then, most grip the magazine well if need be. Oh, and civilians think it looks tacti-cool!

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I freely admit I don't know much about guns, but it seems to me this would be much easier to shoot a lot of kids in a crowded hallway with this...



...than this...


...especially if the shooter is inexperienced.

Just my opinion regarding the discussion.

ANY rifle is going to produce recoil and make it more/less difficult to get back on target quickly, especially if the shooter is inexperienced.  As far as a crowded hallway, you're talking fractions of a second to get back down into a "kill range" (not necessarily aiming for a specific spot) as far as the difference between an AR style rifle with a fore-grip and a hunting style rifle with a scope.

Just my opinion, but a pistol type fore-grip is actually a hindrance and would be the first thing I removed if I bought a rifle with one installed.  It really serves no purpose and gives no advantage whatsoever, even in a tactical situation.  A rifle isn't designed for close-quarters type of shooting, rather it's designed for more longer range precision type of shooting.

The thing is, most people that aren't familiar with firearms have a misunderstanding of what a particular firearm is designed for and what it's intended use is.  Many "anti-gun" people along with much of the media spread the "assault weapon" myth simply because of what a particular type of firearm looks like.  I happen to own an AR type firearm that I enjoy shooting on my property.  I don't use it for hunting or protection, I primarily use it for target shooting.  It's a "scary" black rifle with a scope and a laser sight that looks similar to some of the the ones used in the latest shootings.  It would probably be one of my last weapons of choice for protection.

Should I, someone with a background of training and responsible use lose my ability to purchase and/or own my rifle because of what some mentally deranged person did?  Should the government or anyone else determine if I "need" my rifle?  No, that choice should be mine.  That's what the NRA fights and lobbies for.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I freely admit I don't know much about guns, but it seems to me this would be much easier to shoot a lot of kids in a crowded hallway with this...



...than this...


...especially if the shooter is inexperienced.

Just my opinion regarding the discussion.

ANY rifle is going to produce recoil and make it more/less difficult to get back on target quickly, especially if the shooter is inexperienced.  As far as a crowded hallway, you're talking fractions of a second to get back down into a "kill range" (not necessarily aiming for a specific spot) as far as the difference between an AR style rifle with a fore-grip and a hunting style rifle with a scope.

Just my opinion, but a pistol type fore-grip is actually a hindrance and would be the first thing I removed if I bought a rifle with one installed.  It really serves no purpose and gives no advantage whatsoever, even in a tactical situation.  A rifle isn't designed for close-quarters type of shooting, rather it's designed for more longer range precision type of shooting.

The thing is, most people that aren't familiar with firearms have a misunderstanding of what a particular firearm is designed for and what it's intended use is.  Many "anti-gun" people along with much of the media spread the "assault weapon" myth simply because of what a particular type of firearm looks like.  I happen to own an AR type firearm that I enjoy shooting on my property.  I don't use it for hunting or protection, I primarily use it for target shooting.  It's a "scary" black rifle with a scope and a laser sight that looks similar to some of the the ones used in the latest shootings.  It would probably be one of my last weapons of choice for protection.

Should I, someone with a background of training and responsible use lose my ability to purchase and/or own my rifle because of what some mentally deranged person did?  Should the government or anyone else determine if I "need" my rifle?  No, that choice should be mine.  That's what the NRA fights and lobbies for.

Get out of here with your common sense and logic. Gun reform needs to be based on emotion not facts.

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The lotion and paper towel comment was a comment outside the AR-15 discussion, and at no point did I say my entire post was technical. The poetic ways some of you gun enthusiasts describe your guns does sound like an almost erotic attraction. Not an insult, I don't judge, just asking about details. It's remarkable.

I'm not really sure how all your points are in rebuttal to mine. Heck, some confirmed it, such as the recoil comparison. Are you telling me you can get several shots off without re-aiming with a 30-06 as you can an AR-15. You can tell me my nephew is clueless all you want, but that is a common sense comparison I've seen made in several articles. So were the points he made to me about the foregrip.

I freely admit I don't know much about guns, but it seems to me this would be much easier to shoot a lot of kids in a crowded hallway with this...



...than this...


...especially if the shooter is inexperienced.

Recoil is dependant on many factors like the type of round, barrel design/length, muzzle brake, recoil buffer, and gas versus inertia feed systems. Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea that shooting an AR style rifle doesn't require getting back on target or aiming. Any weapon that produces felt recoil needs you to get back on target, to include a .22 caliber rifle. As far as your AR to 30-06 comparison they are equally as deadly in a crowded hallway. Semi-auto is semi-auto is semi-auto. A bit different when comparing to a bolt action. The fore-grip accessory as in the picture of a full-size AR platform is detrimental to accurate shooting. Any qualified rifleman or marksman will tell you as such. Honestly, the only reason they exist is that of all the additional crap we added to the weapons system that interferes with proper purchase on the handguard (light, laser, infrared illuminator, etc.) Even then, most grip the magazine well if need be. Oh, and civilians think it looks tacti-cool!

And these can do more damage than either one. The point is if someone wants to do something evil, they will find a way. Banning things accomplishes nothing. Bad people will do bad things. The key is stopping them before they do the bad stuff. 

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Recoil is dependant on many factors like the type of round, barrel design/length, muzzle brake, recoil buffer, and gas versus inertia feed systems. Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea that shooting an AR style rifle doesn't require getting back on target or aiming. Any weapon that produces felt recoil needs you to get back on target, to include a .22 caliber rifle. As far as your AR to 30-06 comparison they are equally as deadly in a crowded hallway. Semi-auto is semi-auto is semi-auto. A bit different when comparing to a bolt action. The fore-grip accessory as in the picture of a full-size AR platform is detrimental to accurate shooting. Any qualified rifleman or marksman will tell you as such. Honestly, the only reason they exist is that of all the additional crap we added to the weapons system that interferes with proper purchase on the handguard (light, laser, infrared illuminator, etc.) Even then, most grip the magazine well if need be. Oh, and civilians think it looks tacti-cool!

And these can do more damage than either one. The point is if someone wants to do something evil, they will find a way. Banning things accomplishes nothing. Bad people will do bad things. The key is stopping them before they do the bad stuff. 

 A rational, logical left leaning individual thinker.

I didn't think it was possible.

Are you a Unicorn, sir?

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And these can do more damage than either one. The point is if someone wants to do something evil, they will find a way. Banning things accomplishes nothing. Bad people will do bad things. The key is stopping them before they do the bad stuff. 

 A rational, logical left leaning individual thinker.

I didn't think it was possible.

Are you a Unicorn, sir?

He's an Establishment NeverTrumper Republican, so I guess left leaning really is an accurate description.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

To be honest, I lean neither left or right. I am a true Independent. I vote with my mind, not by party lines. In almost every election, I vote a mixed ticket. I vote for who ever I believe can do the best job. I actually voted Libertarian in the last presidential election. I was looking for the lesser of all evils.

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As far as your AR to 30-06 comparison they are equally as deadly in a crowded hallway. Semi-auto is semi-auto is semi-auto.

Detached magazine semi-auto vs. attached magazine (even if clip-fed) semi-auto vs. tubular magazine semi-auto are quite different. Even a detached magazine 5.56mm semi-auto is a bit different than a detached magazine 30-06 semi-auto (which are rare) due to  magazine capacity (typically 30 or more rounds for a 5.56, 20 or less for a 30-06), round size and weight (limits the capacity one could reasonably carry), and effective rate of fire (due to differences in felt recoil). Particularly out of the two weapons previously pictured by rollerjag, if I had to use one in a crowded hallway, the AR would be the choice every time, hands down.

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Just my opinion, but a pistol type fore-grip is actually a hindrance and would be the first thing I removed if I bought a rifle with one installed.  It really serves no purpose and gives no advantage whatsoever, even in a tactical situation.  A rifle isn't designed for close-quarters type of shooting, rather it's designed for more longer range precision type of shooting.

A pistol type fore-grip absolutely does serve a purpose and is advantageous in many tactical situations, particularly in close-quarters combat and urban environments. And rifles like the M4 are designed with CQB in mind, since that is what troops would often find themselves engaged in. Admittedly, an M4 or a similar civilian semi-auto "assault rifle" with a pistol-grip fore-end would not be my choice for home defense or hunting, but it would be my choice for many tactical situations.

---

Just my opinion, but a pistol type fore-grip is actually a hindrance and would be the first thing I removed if I bought a rifle with one installed.  It really serves no purpose and gives no advantage whatsoever, even in a tactical situation.  A rifle isn't designed for close-quarters type of shooting, rather it's designed for more longer range precision type of shooting.

A pistol type fore-grip absolutely does serve a purpose and is advantageous in many tactical situations, particularly in close-quarters combat and urban environments. And rifles like the M4 are designed with CQB in mind, since that is what troops would often find themselves engaged in. Admittedly, an M4 or a similar civilian semi-auto "assault rifle" with a pistol-grip fore-end would not be my choice for home defense or hunting, but it would be my choice for many tactical situations.

Meh, everybody has their preference.  For a close quarters tactical situation (ie., indoors, home protection, etc.) I would prefer a shotgun and a pistol.  For longer ranges (more than say 20 yards) then perhaps a rifle of some kind but again, I personally wouldn't want a pistol type fore-grip.  It's just my opinion and my personal preference.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

A pistol type fore-grip absolutely does serve a purpose and is advantageous in many tactical situations, particularly in close-quarters combat and urban environments. And rifles like the M4 are designed with CQB in mind, since that is what troops would often find themselves engaged in. Admittedly, an M4 or a similar civilian semi-auto "assault rifle" with a pistol-grip fore-end would not be my choice for home defense or hunting, but it would be my choice for many tactical situations.

Meh, everybody has their preference.  For a close quarters tactical situation (ie., indoors, home protection, etc.) I would prefer a shotgun and a pistol.  For longer ranges (more than say 20 yards) then perhaps a rifle of some kind but again, I personally wouldn't want a pistol type fore-grip.  It's just my opinion and my personal preference.

I agree that for home defense, I would go with a shotgun and/or pistol. My Winchester Defender and Sig P226 are used for just that purpose. But in a situation where I was in "assault-mode" where I could use a lot of firepower and didn't care that much about over-penetration, I'd prefer to go with an M4 or similar weapon, and a pistol fore-grip would be handy.

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Special Forces from all branches from Tier 1 DEVGRU and SFD-D to Tier 3 like Rangers and Force Recon routinely ask for higher caliber rifles for themselves. They want their targets to stay down when shot. 5.56mm and 9mm do not guarantee these things.

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I’m just wondering how often you guys find yourselves in a tactical situation.

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I’m just wondering how often you guys find yourselves in a tactical situation.

Whenever I pull off a coup.

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I’m just wondering how often you guys find yourselves in a tactical situation.

Gator mating season.  Before you ask both 2 and 4 legged.  You can never be too safe when a bull gator is in a full blown rut.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I’m just wondering how often you guys find yourselves in a tactical situation.

In my younger days when I served as a deputy sheriff, quite frequently.  Searching a building with an alarm going off or an open door is pretty dicey.  I'm sure that tactics and/or methods have probably changed some since the mid-80's, but I'll never forget what I learned.

Nowadays pretty much never.  I do have a couple of weapons that I do use for home defense, and a few that I enjoy shooting out on my property.  My only encounters of "threats" thus far are rattle snakes and maybe a hog every now and then.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I'd wager most posting here have never lived in a truly rural (non-suburbs) area.

Some places it's common to have a shotgun behind your front and back door, maybe every room in the home.

These are places where folks don't come around unless they have business with or know you.

We pretend that's only good for those who live remotely... where you can't see the next neighbor from your porch. But if you think about it, it's probably more necessary in densely populated areas than not. There are more people around that you don't do business with and more likely to have ill intent.

Your property is yours, and yours alone. If you can't defend it... it's not really yours.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."