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Trump should not talk to Mueller

#21

2 republicans (Rosenstein & Sessions) are taking down Cohen (aka The Fixer) !!!
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#22
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2018, 01:02 PM by pirkster.)

(04-10-2018, 08:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(04-10-2018, 06:45 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: If the newest raid on Cohen’s office doesn’t clearly show Mueller’s end-game is a conviction for any possible crime, then you aren’t looking closely enough. It also seems obvious that he doesn’t have a lick of evidence for collusion if he’s now looking into campaign contributions.

There’s no way you go this deep into Trump and not get led into other candidates. Someone (probably Stormy’s attorney) referred information to Mueller so that they could pursue it. Is that all it takes to get Mueller to look in that direction? And do we really believe that others haven’t led him to Clinton’s and others?

This is absurd.

I think you misunderstand Mueller's involvement in this FBI raid on Cohen's office.

The FBI raid on Cohen's office has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation, except that Mueller apparently uncovered something.  He was then required by law to go to Rod Rosenstein with it, and Rosenstein would have referred it to the local US Attorney's office.   At this point, Mueller is out of it.  It will all be handled by the US Attorney's office.

In fact, the US Attorney who authorized the FBI raid is a Trump appointee who donated to the Trump campaign.

"In fact"

Oh...


https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/983734168134864898

Life comes at you fast, Marty.  So does fake news.

https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/983734168134864898
"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."
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#23

(04-10-2018, 08:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: I think you misunderstand Mueller's involvement in this FBI raid on Cohen's office.

The FBI raid on Cohen's office has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation, except that Mueller apparently uncovered something.  He was then required by law to go to Rod Rosenstein with it, and Rosenstein would have referred it to the local US Attorney's office.   At this point, Mueller is out of it.  It will all be handled by the US Attorney's office.

In fact, the US Attorney who authorized the FBI raid is a Trump appointee who donated to the Trump campaign.

I understand it, and I think if you take it at face value then it looks legit. I’m guessing Mueller got this info because he was the provider’s best chance that it would’ve been followed up on. That’s why I think it was Avenatti hoping that he’d get something that’s help his case through whatever the FBI comes up with. 

There would be have to be substantial evidence for the FBI to raid Cohen’s office. My guess is that, even if Trump did violate campaign financing rules, it was covered up well enough to at least make it difficult to get search warrants. The FBI can’t just say they think there’s evidence in Cohen’s office; they need something to support this suspicion. Since Cohen is claiming to be the source of payment, I’m not sure how they can say the campaign financed it.

I don’t think Mueller is leading it. I think he’s the motivation behind it, and I think that it wouldn’t be this far without him.
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#24

(04-07-2018, 05:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote:
(04-07-2018, 06:58 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: I kind of agree with both of you. 

I would add, impeachment is a high bar to clear, because any representative who votes to impeach would have to face the voters, the same ones who voted the President into office in the first place.  And nothing would fire up a President's supporters as much as the congress overturning the will of the people by ejecting from office the President they elected. 

And the really high bar to clear is conviction, because that requires 67 votes in the Senate, which would be almost impossible if there was no significant crime.  

There would have to be widespread, overwhelming support among the voting public for any impeachment and conviction to succeed.  Last I saw, Trump was around a 44% approval rating.   I would guess it would have to drop to around 25% for any impeachment movement to get any traction at all.  

That's why only two Presidents have been impeached in our entire history, and none have been convicted and ejected from office.  Clinton was impeached, but the vote in the Senate on conviction wasn't even close.   Interesting factoid- Andrew Johnson avoided conviction when a senator who was in the hospital was carried in on a stretcher and voted to acquit.

I doubt Trump gets impeached, and definitely not convicted by the Senate, unless Mueller comes up with a bombshell too big to ignore. Anything that big would probably result in his resignation. Given the success of the fake news hysteria campaign and the discrediting of Mueller, removing him from office would tear this country apart and, even worse, give us President Pence.

The longer this "investigation" drags on, the smaller any potential bombshell becomes.  If there really was anything nefarious that had been uncovered, it would have come to light by now.  The fact that the investigation is having to constantly be redefined to cast a broader net is a pretty good indication that they're not finding squat to bring down Trump, which is clearly the ultimate goal here.  They'll keep hunting for something until they find a traffic violation or some other relatively minor infraction that has absolutely nothing to do with Russian "collusion".  

Seeing Mueller's investigation now encouraging the prosecutor in NY to raid Trump's attorney's office, hotel, and home for something completely unrelated to the investigation is a good indication of just how little they have.  It also sets a pretty scary precedent of how far they're willing to go to bring down a guy they don't want in the Oval Office.  I know from your political viewpoint, that's perfectly fine, but the overreach we're seeing right now is starting to smell like a police state with the establishment unleashing any means necessary to achieve an end they deem satisfactory, the constitution be damned.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#25

They'll find he's been getting free cable (gorilla channel, amirite?) by splicing into his tenants in the tower.
"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."
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#26

(04-10-2018, 06:37 PM)pirkster Wrote: They'll find he's been getting free cable (gorilla channel, amirite?) by splicing into his tenants in the tower.

This scandal was exposed by the fire in Trump Tower the other day.  Now he has blood on his hands.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#27

(04-10-2018, 06:15 PM)FBT Wrote:
(04-07-2018, 05:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote: I doubt Trump gets impeached, and definitely not convicted by the Senate, unless Mueller comes up with a bombshell too big to ignore. Anything that big would probably result in his resignation. Given the success of the fake news hysteria campaign and the discrediting of Mueller, removing him from office would tear this country apart and, even worse, give us President Pence.

The longer this "investigation" drags on, the smaller any potential bombshell becomes.  If there really was anything nefarious that had been uncovered, it would have come to light by now.  The fact that the investigation is having to constantly be redefined to cast a broader net is a pretty good indication that they're not finding squat to bring down Trump, which is clearly the ultimate goal here.  They'll keep hunting for something until they find a traffic violation or some other relatively minor infraction that has absolutely nothing to do with Russian "collusion".  

Seeing Mueller's investigation now encouraging the prosecutor in NY to raid Trump's attorney's office, hotel, and home for something completely unrelated to the investigation is a good indication of just how little they have.  It also sets a pretty scary precedent of how far they're willing to go to bring down a guy they don't want in the Oval Office.  I know from your political viewpoint, that's perfectly fine, but the overreach we're seeing right now is starting to smell like a police state with the establishment unleashing any means necessary to achieve an end they deem satisfactory, the constitution be damned.

My position is, I am going to try not to pre-judge anything.  I have no idea right now if there was collusion or not.  Mueller will issue his findings in due course, and I'll make up my mind then, based on the evidence.  

But if Mueller did find some evidence of a crime that was unrelated to his investigation, then he had to send it up the chain to Rosenstein, who then had to send it to the US Attorney's office, who then had to go to a judge to get a warrant, and the warrant had to convince a judge that if they issued a subpoena for the evidence they are seeking, the evidence might disappear.  That's a lot of people to go through, and to me, it tells me there was probably a good reason for the search warrant.  Unless you think the entire US government, including Trump appointees like Rosenstein, are engaged in a conspiracy to overthrow Trump.
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#28

(04-11-2018, 09:39 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(04-10-2018, 06:15 PM)FBT Wrote: The longer this "investigation" drags on, the smaller any potential bombshell becomes.  If there really was anything nefarious that had been uncovered, it would have come to light by now.  The fact that the investigation is having to constantly be redefined to cast a broader net is a pretty good indication that they're not finding squat to bring down Trump, which is clearly the ultimate goal here.  They'll keep hunting for something until they find a traffic violation or some other relatively minor infraction that has absolutely nothing to do with Russian "collusion".  

Seeing Mueller's investigation now encouraging the prosecutor in NY to raid Trump's attorney's office, hotel, and home for something completely unrelated to the investigation is a good indication of just how little they have.  It also sets a pretty scary precedent of how far they're willing to go to bring down a guy they don't want in the Oval Office.  I know from your political viewpoint, that's perfectly fine, but the overreach we're seeing right now is starting to smell like a police state with the establishment unleashing any means necessary to achieve an end they deem satisfactory, the constitution be damned.

My position is, I am going to try not to pre-judge anything.  I have no idea right now if there was collusion or not.  Mueller will issue his findings in due course, and I'll make up my mind then, based on the evidence.  

But if Mueller did find some evidence of a crime that was unrelated to his investigation, then he had to send it up the chain to Rosenstein, who then had to send it to the US Attorney's office, who then had to go to a judge to get a warrant, and the warrant had to convince a judge that if they issued a subpoena for the evidence they are seeking, the evidence might disappear.  That's a lot of people to go through, and to me, it tells me there was probably a good reason for the search warrant.  Unless you think the entire US government, including Trump appointees like Rosenstein, are engaged in a conspiracy to overthrow Trump.

An open mind? How dare you! Get with the program!

You are expected to rise to the level of Drama Queen Extreme like FBT and Stroud - you know, Deep State and all that. They're coming to get you.

Why are people surprised that the slimy people around Trump are actually facing charges? Where are the law-enforcement Lock Her Up types that were so keen on seeing someone go to jail. On any charge. Something. It's fun to watch the double time back pedaling.

What Republicans really need to fear is Trump's Mussolini impression - going after political opponents even after the election is over and won. That kind of thing can be used against you as well. And before you know it.
The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.
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#29

You can't see that's precisely what's happening?!?

So, we're going to pretend that Rosenstein and Trump are buddies. Is that the latest delusion?

Are we conveniently forgetting Rosenstein selected Mueller, who in serving Mueller serves himself. In fact, he's been working closely with Mueller and Comey their entire careers to "right" things for the Clintons and Bush. That's not even considering what Rosenstein's wife has done to help, too. This article outlines their relationships quite well. https://stonecoldtruth.com/muller-rosens...eep-state/

Or are we pretending that isn't real, either?

It just goes to show that in today's political climate, there is no room for error in selecting those around you.

It also shows how far away from our founders intention that this country has become. Our Constitution and the government they created is falling apart, destroyed from within.

What was once a very limited government comprised of people from all walks of life who only served their country's governance part-time (who relied on careers outside the government,) are now career politicians who back each others' racket in getting rich off the backs of the people who elect them - and reject outsiders who are not one of their own. It's become a fraternity of a ruling class. Pretty much everything our founders didn't want our government to become.

Anyone objective citizen would be concerned about the abuse of power and the flexing of the Deep State. If you're not, you're simply not paying attention. Both sides of the aisle are guilty, and will do and say anything to protect the precious that has corrupted their souls and enriched them off the backs of the citizens over which they gleefully wield their power.

Trump is the outsider who is not welcome by those around him, including those he's put around himself. It's clear to see. In protecting themselves, the Deep State is trying to take down the President. Does that not bother you in the slightest bit? No matter who you voted for or what your political leanings, that should disturb you to no end.

Yet, far too many on the sidelines are simply licking their chops and gnashing their teeth for revenge and a Trump takedown. That's sick. Seeking personal gratification without regard to the destruction of our political system and rule of law.
"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."
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#30
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2018, 11:15 AM by The Real Marty.)

(04-11-2018, 10:56 AM)pirkster Wrote: You can't see that's precisely what's happening?!?

So, we're going to pretend that Rosenstein and Trump are buddies.  Is that the latest delusion?

Are we conveniently forgetting Rosenstein selected Mueller, who in serving Mueller serves himself.  In fact, he's been working closely with Mueller and Comey their entire careers to "right" things for the Clintons and Bush.  That's not even considering what Rosenstein's wife has done to help, too.  This article outlines their relationships quite well.  https://stonecoldtruth.com/muller-rosens...eep-state/

Or are we pretending that isn't real, either?

It just goes to show that in today's political climate, there is no room for error in selecting those around you.

It also shows how far away from our founders intention that this country has become.  Our Constitution and the government they created is falling apart, destroyed from within.

What was once a very limited government comprised of people from all walks of life who only served their country's governance part-time (who relied on careers outside the government,) are now career politicians who back each others' racket in getting rich off the backs of the people who elect them - and reject outsiders who are not one of their own.  It's become a fraternity of a ruling class.  Pretty much everything our founders didn't want our government to become.

Anyone objective citizen would be concerned about the abuse of power and the flexing of the Deep State.  If you're not, you're simply not paying attention.  Both sides of the aisle are guilty, and will do and say anything to protect the precious that has corrupted their souls and enriched them off the backs of the citizens over which they gleefully wield their power.

Trump is the outsider who is not welcome by those around him, including those he's put around himself.  It's clear to see.  In protecting themselves, the Deep State is trying to take down the President.  Does that not bother you in the slightest bit?  No matter who you voted for or what your political leanings, that should disturb you to no end.

Yet, far too many on the sidelines are simply licking their chops and gnashing their teeth for revenge and a Trump takedown.  That's sick.  Seeking personal gratification without regard to the destruction of our political system and rule of law.


Didn't Trump appoint  Rosenstein to his current post?   Doesn't Rosenstein work for Trump?

I read the article you linked, and it seems like all it has to say is, "Anybody who knows anybody else is part of the deep state."
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#31

(04-11-2018, 11:11 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(04-11-2018, 10:56 AM)pirkster Wrote: You can't see that's precisely what's happening?!?

So, we're going to pretend that Rosenstein and Trump are buddies.  Is that the latest delusion?

Are we conveniently forgetting Rosenstein selected Mueller, who in serving Mueller serves himself.  In fact, he's been working closely with Mueller and Comey their entire careers to "right" things for the Clintons and Bush.  That's not even considering what Rosenstein's wife has done to help, too.  This article outlines their relationships quite well.  https://stonecoldtruth.com/muller-rosens...eep-state/

Or are we pretending that isn't real, either?

It just goes to show that in today's political climate, there is no room for error in selecting those around you.

It also shows how far away from our founders intention that this country has become.  Our Constitution and the government they created is falling apart, destroyed from within.

What was once a very limited government comprised of people from all walks of life who only served their country's governance part-time (who relied on careers outside the government,) are now career politicians who back each others' racket in getting rich off the backs of the people who elect them - and reject outsiders who are not one of their own.  It's become a fraternity of a ruling class.  Pretty much everything our founders didn't want our government to become.

Anyone objective citizen would be concerned about the abuse of power and the flexing of the Deep State.  If you're not, you're simply not paying attention.  Both sides of the aisle are guilty, and will do and say anything to protect the precious that has corrupted their souls and enriched them off the backs of the citizens over which they gleefully wield their power.

Trump is the outsider who is not welcome by those around him, including those he's put around himself.  It's clear to see.  In protecting themselves, the Deep State is trying to take down the President.  Does that not bother you in the slightest bit?  No matter who you voted for or what your political leanings, that should disturb you to no end.

Yet, far too many on the sidelines are simply licking their chops and gnashing their teeth for revenge and a Trump takedown.  That's sick.  Seeking personal gratification without regard to the destruction of our political system and rule of law.


Didn't Trump appoint  Rosenstein to his current post?   Doesn't Rosenstein work for Trump?

I read the article you linked, and it seems like all it has to say is, "Anybody who knows anybody else is part of the deep state."

Riveting content you added there.

I assume you would have no problem with Trump firing Rosenstein.  Since he is his boss and all, and did appoint him.  He's well within that right, is he not?

Taking your glib stance, one might assume "Hey, they were best of friends.  If he fired him, he must have not been doing his job and therefore deserved it."  No?  It wouldn't be right for Trump to fire his buddy?  Because then it would be that he's not his buddy and he's firing him without cause for nefarious reasons.

You can't have it both ways.  Or, maybe you can depending on which suits the agenda at the time.

And kudos for whiffing on your Berman take as well.  There's a lot you're missing here.  Willfully, it would seem.  Because to have an open mind and approach with objectivity, would require a deeper dive than the toe in the water you've chosen.
"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."
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#32
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2018, 11:44 AM by HURRICANE!!!.)

Mueller and his team investigated syndicated crime organizations and mafias.  If he's investigating John Gotti on racketeering charges but uncovers the fact that Gotti was directly or indirectly responsible for 25 murders, Mueller does not stop the investigation to make a statement that he found nothing related to racketeering but rather continues his investigation to reveal a crime much greater than originally investigated.  Right now, Mueller is just rounding up a bunch of Sammy the Bull equivalents who will be chirping like birds over the next few months .....

Prediction:  Trump will remain as President but I have a hunch at least one of his family members is going down (e.g. Don Jr,  Jared).
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#33

(04-10-2018, 06:15 PM)FBT Wrote:
(04-07-2018, 05:13 PM)rollerjag Wrote: I doubt Trump gets impeached, and definitely not convicted by the Senate, unless Mueller comes up with a bombshell too big to ignore. Anything that big would probably result in his resignation. Given the success of the fake news hysteria campaign and the discrediting of Mueller, removing him from office would tear this country apart and, even worse, give us President Pence.

The longer this "investigation" drags on, the smaller any potential bombshell becomes.  If there really was anything nefarious that had been uncovered, it would have come to light by now.  The fact that the investigation is having to constantly be redefined to cast a broader net is a pretty good indication that they're not finding squat to bring down Trump, which is clearly the ultimate goal here.  They'll keep hunting for something until they find a traffic violation or some other relatively minor infraction that has absolutely nothing to do with Russian "collusion".  

Seeing Mueller's investigation now encouraging the prosecutor in NY to raid Trump's attorney's office, hotel, and home for something completely unrelated to the investigation is a good indication of just how little they have.  It also sets a pretty scary precedent of how far they're willing to go to bring down a guy they don't want in the Oval Office.  I know from your political viewpoint, that's perfectly fine, but the overreach we're seeing right now is starting to smell like a police state with the establishment unleashing any means necessary to achieve an end they deem satisfactory, the constitution be damned.

No, it wouldn't. As much as I dislike the man, I don't want Trump removed from office over a bunch of nothing, if that's what it turns out to be. An impeachment and subsequent Senate trial would be bad for the country, especially if the charges weren't for something overwhelmingly nefarious. Having said that, I disagree with your characterization of how the investigation has gone.
If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley

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