Well, murder is against our core values after all.

 Abortion isn't murder.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

 Abortion isn't murder.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I don't need the comfort of myths and fairy tales to sleep soundly, nor do I believe you lose sleep because women have control over their own bodies.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

There's another body to consider.

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There's another body to consider.

It's only a consideration for the person with the fertilized egg in her womb.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

 Abortion isn't murder.

Because an unborn child isn't a human being (or a "person")? 

You're no more qualified to say it is than RJ is to say it isn't. The Supreme Court should have left abortion to the states in Roe v. Wade. Had they done so back then, we wouldn't be arguing about Supreme Court nominations based upon one issue that, frankly, will never affect the majority of Americans anyway.

If abortion does make its way back to the Supreme Court, regardless of who's on the bench at that time, I would hope the decision is to leave that issue to the states rather than allowing nine lawyers to become gynecologists again.

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Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I don't need the comfort of myths and fairy tales to sleep soundly, nor do I believe you lose sleep because women have control over their own bodies.

The baby can feel pain, has its own DNA, finger prints, and blood type. What more would it take to be considered a person to you?

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Because an unborn child isn't a human being (or a "person")? 

You're no more qualified to say it is than RJ is to say it isn't. The Supreme Court should have left abortion to the states in Roe v. Wade. Had they done so back then, we wouldn't be arguing about Supreme Court nominations based upon one issue that, frankly, will never affect the majority of Americans anyway.

If abortion does make its way back to the Supreme Court, regardless of who's on the bench at that time, I would hope the decision is to leave that issue to the states rather than allowing nine lawyers to become gynecologists again.

I have no  illusions of changing minds on this issue, especially since the core of the argument is out of bounds.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I don't need the comfort of myths and fairy tales to sleep soundly, nor do I believe you lose sleep because women have control over their own bodies.

The baby can feel pain, has its own DNA, finger prints, and blood type. What more would it take to be considered a person to you?

I think there is a reasonable point of viability. Most cells have DNA, finger prints develop and pain is felt around 5 - 6 months, you are correct about blood type. I don't mean to be Draconian, I'm not a rabid proponent of baby slaughter, which abortion is not. I understand the opposition to aborting a fetus that could feasibly live outside its mother's womb, but 91.40% of abortions occur before the 14th week, another 7.2% before week 21. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I believe the fate of a fetus during that period should be up to the mother upon whose body it depends on for development. Like TJ said, I'm tired of a matter affecting such a small number so often becoming the single issue upon which a SCOTUS nominee is judged, on both sides.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

The baby can feel pain, has its own DNA, finger prints, and blood type. What more would it take to be considered a person to you?

I think there is a reasonable point of viability. Most cells have DNA, finger prints develop and pain is felt around 5 - 6 months, you are correct about blood type. I don't mean to be Draconian, I'm not a rabid proponent of baby slaughter, which abortion is not. I understand the opposition to aborting a fetus that could feasibly live outside its mother's womb, but 91.40% of abortions occur before the 14th week, another 7.2% before week 21. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I believe the fate of a fetus during that period should be up to the mother upon whose body it depends on for development. Like TJ said, I'm tired of a matter affecting such a small number so often becoming the single issue upon which a SCOTUS nominee is judged, on both sides.

RJ agrees with current US jurisprudence, here.  Federal courts have allowed the state and federal government to restrict abortion after the point of viability.  
Some states have not decided to do so.  
Similarly, if Trump's appointees change jurisprudence, at first this will only mean that some states will have earlier points where restrictions begin.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

The baby can feel pain, has its own DNA, finger prints, and blood type. What more would it take to be considered a person to you?

I think there is a reasonable point of viability. Most cells have DNA, finger prints develop and pain is felt around 5 - 6 months, you are correct about blood type. I don't mean to be Draconian, I'm not a rabid proponent of baby slaughter, which abortion is not. I understand the opposition to aborting a fetus that could feasibly live outside its mother's womb, but 91.40% of abortions occur before the 14th week, another 7.2% before week 21. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I believe the fate of a fetus during that period should be up to the mother upon whose body it depends on for development. Like TJ said, I'm tired of a matter affecting such a small number so often becoming the single issue upon which a SCOTUS nominee is judged, on both sides.

Your opinion doesn't offend me. I just disagree with it.

I may have confused pain with physical stimuli. They react to light, sounds, and touch as early as 20 weeks. While it may not be pain, I don't think there's much difference to the point. Cells having DNA aren't the same as the baby having its own unique DNA from the mother. I don't think dependency on the mother is what creates a human.

You have to have a limit to abortion. I'm sure you wouldn't abort a baby still attached to the umbilical cord but outside the mother. What's the difference between that baby and one that is the same exact age but inside the womb? Both depend on the mother. If there is no real difference between the two, then what's the difference between the second baby and a baby that's a week younger? This example can go on-and-on until we get to the youngest possible example. If you don't have a limit to abortion then this example clearly doesn't apply to you, and I don't think we could ever find common grounds. 

If it's the heart function you stop at, there are adults that are only alive due to a pace maker.

If it's the brain function you stop at, there are adults in a coma and wont have proper brain function for a while or ever.

The problem is that when you draw a line at anything other than inception, you end up drawing a line that can be applied to adults.

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Because an unborn child isn't a human being (or a "person")? 

You're no more qualified to say it is than RJ is to say it isn't. The Supreme Court should have left abortion to the states in Roe v. Wade. Had they done so back then, we wouldn't be arguing about Supreme Court nominations based upon one issue that, frankly, will never affect the majority of Americans anyway.

If abortion does make its way back to the Supreme Court, regardless of who's on the bench at that time, I would hope the decision is to leave that issue to the states rather than allowing nine lawyers to become gynecologists again.

You left out the rest of my comment.

I was asking RJ if he doesn't consider an unborn child a human being, and pointing out that the belief that they aren't human was once used against blacks.

As far as the rest of your comment, I agree with it. But for it to be left to the states now, Roe vs Wade would have to be overturned by the SCOTUS (unlikely no matter who becomes Kennedy's replacement) or by an amendment to the Constitution which is nearly impossible.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Abortion is a fraudulent cleverly devised plan by the left to have minorities genocide themselves. It's always been such wrapped up in this foolish "women's rights" crap when it's nothing more than unmitigated evil. Sanbger said it. Old Ginsburg herself said it. It's too bad so many otherwise reasonably intelligent people have fallen for it.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The baby can feel pain, has its own DNA, finger prints, and blood type. What more would it take to be considered a person to you?

I think there is a reasonable point of viability. Most cells have DNA, finger prints develop and pain is felt around 5 - 6 months, you are correct about blood type. I don't mean to be Draconian, I'm not a rabid proponent of baby slaughter, which abortion is not. I understand the opposition to aborting a fetus that could feasibly live outside its mother's womb, but 91.40% of abortions occur before the 14th week, another 7.2% before week 21. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I believe the fate of a fetus during that period should be up to the mother upon whose body it depends on for development. Like TJ said, I'm tired of a matter affecting such a small number so often becoming the single issue upon which a SCOTUS nominee is judged, on both sides.

What you omit is that the Democrat party monolithically defends the right to an abortion even after 20 weeks or longer, to the point of opposing a law against inflicting death when a viable child is killed after partially being removed from the womb. While I agree that a fetus is not a human being (person) immediately after conception, I think it does become a person with the right to life somewhere before birth. I am not claiming to choose any particular age, I'm no expert in the matter, but only that there exists some age before birth where that is true.

And in the case of abortion we're not talking about the right of the mother to her own body, we're talking about the right of someone else to actually kill the child/fetus.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

The concept of external viability was a 1973 solution to the question of delineating between the potentiality of life and actual life. At that time the womb itself was still shrouded in levels of mystery. There was even a question about whether or not The Unborn fetus was in fact biologically human see the concept of embryology. Based on today's current understanding we know that from conception the fetus embryo and unborn child are all human lives and as such qualify under the basic premise of inalienable rights. The idea that an independent third-party can arbitrarily obliterate the basic right to exist based on fanciful or flowery language is a kin to the logic used to deny blacks their basic rights or jews their basic rights.

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I'm thoroughly enjoying seeing fetuses (fetii?) equated to slaves.

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I'm thoroughly enjoying seeing fetuses (fetii?) equated to slaves.

You're right.  The comparison is. Bit silly.  Many more people died because of abortion than slAvery.  In new york roughly 1 in 3 black pregnancies end in abortion.  In many parts of the country the leading cause of death for blacks is abortion.  

In politics all too often we rely on visual cues to trigger emotional responses to guide our decisions.  I know that going to empirical scientific fact is a big departure for my friends across the isle but fear not.  We'll get through this together.

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If it takes overturning some landmark decisions to remind everyone that it is neither necessary nor proper for the Supreme Court to analyze and rule upon when part of a woman's body becomes another human life, then overturn away. If Kavanaugh makes it, I hope he swings the court back towards shrinking the reach and purview of federal government.

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If it takes overturning some landmark decisions to remind everyone that it is neither necessary nor proper for the Supreme Court to analyze and rule upon when part of a woman's body becomes another human life, then overturn away. If Kavanaugh makes it, I hope he swings the court back towards shrinking the reach and purview of federal government.

It's absolutely appropriate for the USSC to determine what qualifies as Civil Rights violations for Americans. Even unborn ones.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Shame you guys don't show the same compassion for actual born kids getting shot up in school. But hey your guns are more important

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Shame you guys don't show the same compassion for actual born kids getting shot up in school. But hey your guns are more important

Lol, keep trying.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato