Create Account



The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Wink 

(11-09-2018, 06:12 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 05:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: It's easy to be for something detrimental when you aren't the one paying the price.

You shared that you had some serious health problems on another thread. I hope you live much longer. at least long enough to stop seeing Life as a zero-sum game. There is not a loser for every winner.

There's a payer for every cost.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



(11-10-2018, 11:32 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 06:12 PM)mikesez Wrote: You shared that you had some serious health problems on another thread. I hope you live much longer. at least long enough to stop seeing Life as a zero-sum game. There is not a loser for every winner.

There's a payer for every cost.

Resettling refugees does cost money for about a year or two. Taxes help pay for it, but about the same amount of money comes from private charity. And if you do it right, most of the resettled refugees become productive citizens.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply


(11-10-2018, 11:51 AM)mikesez Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 11:32 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: There's a payer for every cost.

Resettling refugees does cost money for about a year or two. Taxes help pay for it, but about the same amount of money comes from private charity. And if you do it right, most of the resettled refugees become productive citizens.


The statistics say otherwise. Over 51% of legal immigrants (which resettled refugees would be) use earnings forcibly taken from the fruits of labor of productive citizens. That number is around 30% for native born US citizens (which is still too high). The numbers for illegals are even higher. Scroll down to the chart in the link below.

Native vs. Immigrant Welfare use



                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"
Reply


Good thing it isn't real money or we'd be in a pickle. It's just numbers on a computer which nobody worked for. Unless we run out of those, we'll be just fine.
Reply

(This post was last modified: 11-10-2018, 02:30 PM by mikesez.)

(11-10-2018, 12:47 PM)MalabarJag Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 11:51 AM)mikesez Wrote: Resettling refugees does cost money for about a year or two. Taxes help pay for it, but about the same amount of money comes from private charity. And if you do it right, most of the resettled refugees become productive citizens.


The statistics say otherwise. Over 51% of legal immigrants (which resettled refugees would be) use earnings forcibly taken from the fruits of labor of productive citizens. That number is around 30% for native born US citizens (which is still too high). The numbers for illegals are even higher. Scroll down to the chart in the link below.

Native vs. Immigrant Welfare use

I don't think that's an apples-to-apples comparison. I think they're using a very broad definition of government welfare when they look at the legal immigrants and a very narrow definition when they're looking at the native born. When you count payments from Social Security, SSID, EITC,and Medicare, the portion of native-born that collect money from the government is about 50%.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



(11-10-2018, 02:29 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 12:47 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: The statistics say otherwise. Over 51% of legal immigrants (which resettled refugees would be) use earnings forcibly taken from the fruits of labor of productive citizens. That number is around 30% for native born US citizens (which is still too high). The numbers for illegals are even higher. Scroll down to the chart in the link below.

Native vs. Immigrant Welfare use

I don't think that's an apples-to-apples comparison. I think they're using a very broad definition of government welfare when they look at the legal immigrants and a very narrow definition when they're looking at the native born. When you count payments from Social Security, SSID, EITC,and Medicare, the portion of native-born that collect money from the government is about 50%.

They use the same definitions for welfare. The illegal percentage (62%) is an estimate because most illegals won't answer such questions. It's supposedly within +/- 5% (nice that a researcher actually included error ranges).

Social Security and Medicare are not welfare in any sense. They are programs where retirees get back what they had taken previously. It's debatable whether or not someone gets back more or less, but a return on forced investment is the gist of it. Only a Leftist would lump them in with programs that are basically just giveaways of other people's money.



                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"
Reply

(This post was last modified: 11-10-2018, 09:41 PM by mikesez.)

(11-10-2018, 03:14 PM)MalabarJag Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 02:29 PM)mikesez Wrote: I don't think that's an apples-to-apples comparison. I think they're using a very broad definition of government welfare when they look at the legal immigrants and a very narrow definition when they're looking at the native born. When you count payments from Social Security, SSID, EITC,and Medicare, the portion of native-born that collect money from the government is about 50%.

They use the same definitions for welfare. The illegal percentage (62%) is an estimate because most illegals won't answer such questions. It's supposedly within +/- 5% (nice that a researcher actually included error ranges).

Social Security and Medicare are not welfare in any sense. They are programs where retirees get back what they had taken previously. It's debatable whether or not someone gets back more or less, but a return on forced investment is the gist of it. Only a Leftist would lump them in with programs that are basically just giveaways of other people's money.

Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.
Anyhow.
Yes, it's true that not everyone over 65 automatically gets social security or Medicare; it's true that one needs to have worked in this country for a number of years to fully qualify. But it's also true that legal immigrants, other than refugees, have to work for a number of years before they collect other forms of welfare.
It's also true that social security and Medicare have been paying out at actuarially unsustainable levels, so, they are partially welfare.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply


Probably it's unsustainable as your health system is so inefficient compared to all other western countries.
Reply


(11-10-2018, 09:38 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 03:14 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: They use the same definitions for welfare. The illegal percentage (62%) is an estimate because most illegals won't answer such questions. It's supposedly within +/- 5% (nice that a researcher actually included error ranges).

Social Security and Medicare are not welfare in any sense. They are programs where retirees get back what they had taken previously. It's debatable whether or not someone gets back more or less, but a return on forced investment is the gist of it. Only a Leftist would lump them in with programs that are basically just giveaways of other people's money.

Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.
Anyhow.
Yes, it's true that not everyone over 65 automatically gets social security or Medicare; it's true that one needs to have worked in this country for a number of years to fully qualify. But it's also true that legal immigrants, other than refugees, have to work for a number of years before they collect other forms of welfare.
It's also true that social security and Medicare have been paying out at actuarially unsustainable levels, so, they are partially welfare.

If you read the article, there are dozens of ways around the law that is supposed to prevent non-citizens from getting welfare. 

But if you were right and the percentage of immigrants on welfare were zero for the first few years, then that makes it a higher percentage for immigrants here longer than those few years. So instead of 48% of immigrants collecting welfare, you have (say) 70% of immigrants who are allowed to be on welfare collecting welfare. The ones here long enough to be established should be the cream of the crop. Your cream is skimming much worse than the average.

Social Security and Medicare are unsustainable because the government did not invest the money collected and spent the surplus, not because retirees who paid into to system are getting more than they contributed plus interest.  Those programs are not welfare.




                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



(11-10-2018, 10:34 PM)lastonealive Wrote: Probably it's unsustainable as your health system is so inefficient compared to all other western countries.

Yeah, we should just start Euthanizing our undesirables too.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Reply


(11-11-2018, 09:36 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(11-10-2018, 10:34 PM)lastonealive Wrote: Probably it's Kunsustainable as your health system is so inefficient compared to all other western countries.

Yeah, we should just start Euthanizing our undesirables too.

But you don't live as long...
Reply


(11-11-2018, 01:40 PM)lastonealive Wrote:
(11-11-2018, 09:36 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Yeah, we should just start Euthanizing our undesirables too.

But you don't live as long...


Lol, lies, damn lies, and statistics. When controled for violent crime and how abortion is reported differently then both total mortality and infant mortality are nearly equal. More importantly, critical illness survival rates here are the best in the world. But hey, keep on believing.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Reply


But I thought violent crime is worse here because we took all the guns away?
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



(11-11-2018, 03:20 PM)lastonealive Wrote: But I thought violent crime is worse here because we took all the guns away?

We have Democrat run hell holes like Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, and Miami housing half of our 300 million people and an illegal immigration problem. You have an island with less than 10% of that population, and most of that population is culturally homogenous.. Our hellholes, not incidently, have some of the most stringent gun laws in the land, but something else seems to be the problem. Now...what could that be I wonder?
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Reply


You don't seem to know much about this island. I think over 30percent of people here were born overseas.

Hey we are the wealthiest per person by median wealth in the world and guess what we have high minimum wages and a public health system. Oh and the national debt is much lower too. What an absolute hellhole
Reply


(11-11-2018, 03:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(11-11-2018, 03:20 PM)lastonealive Wrote: But I thought violent crime is worse here because we took all the guns away?

We have Democrat run hell holes like Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, and Miami housing half of our 300 million people and an illegal immigration problem. You have an island with less than 10% of that population, and most of that population is culturally homogenous.. Our hellholes, not incidently, have some of the most stringent gun laws in the land, but something else seems to be the problem. Now...what could that be I wonder?

No I don't know please tell me what the problem is.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply


(11-11-2018, 05:01 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(11-11-2018, 03:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: We have Democrat run hell holes like Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, and Miami housing half of our 300 million people and an illegal immigration problem. You have an island with less than 10% of that population, and most of that population is culturally homogenous.. Our hellholes, not incidently, have some of the most stringent gun laws in the land, but something else seems to be the problem. Now...what could that be I wonder?

No I don't know please tell me what the problem is.

The destruction of the African-American male as both father and contributing member of society. Tough stuff I know, but the truth usually is.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!



I expect a ballerina-esque retort of epic proportions.

Even more than usual. I think his spin makes him so dizzy he actually believes the nonsense.
"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."
Reply

(This post was last modified: 11-21-2018, 08:16 PM by mikesez.)

(11-21-2018, 06:21 PM)pirkster Wrote: I expect a ballerina-esque retort of epic proportions.

Even more than usual.  I think his spin makes him so dizzy he actually believes the nonsense.

It's been a while. 
maybe I don't really have a reply to that.

(11-11-2018, 05:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(11-11-2018, 05:01 PM)mikesez Wrote: No I don't know please tell me what the problem is.

The destruction of the African-American male as both father and contributing member of society. Tough stuff I know, but the truth usually is.

So you've made a problem statement.
The conversation can end here, or you can try to explain why the problem happened (why African Americans and not also poor whites for instance), or you can propose a solution.
You're kind of leaving me hanging.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply


(11-21-2018, 08:14 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(11-21-2018, 06:21 PM)pirkster Wrote: I expect a ballerina-esque retort of epic proportions.

Even more than usual.  I think his spin makes him so dizzy he actually believes the nonsense.

It's been a while. 
maybe I don't really have a reply to that.

(11-11-2018, 05:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: The destruction of the African-American male as both father and contributing member of society. Tough stuff I know, but the truth usually is.

So you've made a problem statement.
The conversation can end here, or you can try to explain why the problem happened (why African Americans and not also poor whites for instance), or you can propose a solution.
You're kind of leaving me hanging.


The problem happens with poor whites too. It is more significant with African American males because the percentage who are poor is much higher. The current welfare system encourages single motherhood because the benefits either disappear or are seriously curtailed if the mother is married. A lack of marriage means no legal responsibility for the male, making it much easier for an unmarried father to abandon his family.



                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"
Reply




Users browsing this thread:
2 Guest(s)

The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.


ABOUT US
The Jungle Forums is the Jaguars' biggest fan message board. Talking about the Jags since 2006, the Jungle was the team-endorsed home of all things Jaguars.

Since 2017, the Jungle is now independent of the team but still run by the same crew. We are here to support and discuss all things Jaguars and all things Duval!