Or they could draft 2 HOF players. It's a crapshoot.

My issue is they gave up the picks AND have to give that contract. Paying that to a Mack who you drafted 3-4 years ago is one thing. Doing all of that for one player, particularly on a team that is definitely not a pass rusher away, seems foolish long term.

It's foolish long term if he isn't the player you envisioned.

If he does not produce at a Pro bowl level, then yes it's foolish long term.

But why is paying a big contract to a  player you drafted 3-4 years ago any more foolish than it is for a player for whom you are trading?

Even though you "know" the player you sign after previously drafting him, signing him to the new contract is no more a guarantee he will continue produce at a high level than trading for that same player or signing him as a free agent.

The Jaguars went from perpetual doormat to within 5 minutes of the Super Bowl on the strength of their defense.

The Vikings went from a team that missed the playoffs 5 out of the past 8 seasons to the NFC Championship game on the strength of their defense.

The Saints went from three straight 7-9 seasons to a last second miracle away from the NFC championship on the strength of their defense.

I can't blame the Bears for hoping for a similar turnaround (especially after drafting what they hope is a franchise QB) for signing a still in his prime All Pro caliber pass rushing OLB, to pair with their other young OLB in Floyd, rookie Roquan Smith, and NT Eddie Goldman.

They have the makings of a nasty defense there-at least a nasty front 7.

If they are going to have any hopes of overtaking Detroit and Green Bay, they have to find a way to get Stafford and Rodgers on the ground.  Cousins too, for that matter.

If they hit on this trade, Mack gives them the ability to put those guys on the ground and give them a chance to win those games.

I absolutely understand your POV on it and you make some good points. 

I'm just personally on the other side

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

If it was just 2 1sts I would do it. The kicker is the Aaron Donald type contract on top of the 2 firsts you gonna have to give

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Playing Devil's Advocate for the moment...name two Jaguars defensive first rounders over the years you would keep over Jalen Ramsey.

Well that's a hard question. On the surface, none.

But we would be in the Raiders situation here, where we only spent one pick on the guy years ago and now he's up to be paid. I'd throw the bank at him.

Flip that around, say we had the defense we have now but no Ramsey, so adding him would take us from a good secondary to the best. I would not give up 2 firsts and then have to pay him at the same time. 

I just feel its too much for any player who isn't Brady, Rodgers, prime Peyton, etc.

Okay...so the Raiders had Mack defensively and nobody else.  They had the choice to pay big bucks for him or trade him, and they chose to trade him.

Question is, what is Mack worth to the Bears?  in Chicago, he wouldn't be virtually alone on that defense the way he was in Oakland.  In their 3-4, assuming Roquan Smith is the stud most scouts assume, their worst LB of their four would be Danny Trevathan!  He would have a good young pass rusher opposite him in Floyd...and a decent front 3 in front of him.  Clearly from the Bears' perspective, they have the chance to make a quantum defensive leap by adding Mack.

Make no mistake, a team giving up 2 first round picks is paying a steep price for a player.

Were it for a non premium position, or for a guy past his prime, or for a guy with a history of off field issues, I'd be completely on board with those of you who say it is too expensive a price.

But in most instances, a player of Mack's pedigree never becomes available.  When he does, sometimes you have to bite the bullet.

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It's foolish long term if he isn't the player you envisioned.

If he does not produce at a Pro bowl level, then yes it's foolish long term.

But why is paying a big contract to a  player you drafted 3-4 years ago any more foolish than it is for a player for whom you are trading?

Even though you "know" the player you sign after previously drafting him, signing him to the new contract is no more a guarantee he will continue produce at a high level than trading for that same player or signing him as a free agent.

The Jaguars went from perpetual doormat to within 5 minutes of the Super Bowl on the strength of their defense.

The Vikings went from a team that missed the playoffs 5 out of the past 8 seasons to the NFC Championship game on the strength of their defense.

The Saints went from three straight 7-9 seasons to a last second miracle away from the NFC championship on the strength of their defense.

I can't blame the Bears for hoping for a similar turnaround (especially after drafting what they hope is a franchise QB) for signing a still in his prime All Pro caliber pass rushing OLB, to pair with their other young OLB in Floyd, rookie Roquan Smith, and NT Eddie Goldman.

They have the makings of a nasty defense there-at least a nasty front 7.

If they are going to have any hopes of overtaking Detroit and Green Bay, they have to find a way to get Stafford and Rodgers on the ground.  Cousins too, for that matter.

If they hit on this trade, Mack gives them the ability to put those guys on the ground and give them a chance to win those games.

I absolutely understand your POV on it and you make some good points. 

I'm just personally on the other side

Understood. 

The combination of two first round picks plus the contract is scary!  I certainly don't think you guys are crazy or even necessarily wrong for your views here.

I'm glad nobody in the AFCS made that deal though.

Aside from us not having to face him twice a year for the next 4-7 years, could you imagine the debates on this subject had the Jaguars pulled the trigger on a deal like this?  

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Oh man, all hell would break loose lol the ensuing thread might just be worth crippling the cap

Cue the "player x,z,z,1,2,3 are going to be cut"

"This just PROVES they don't trust Bortles"

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Oh man, all hell would break loose lol the ensuing thread might just be worth crippling the cap

Cue the "player x,z,z,1,2,3 are going to be cut"

"This just PROVES they don't trust Bortles"

It would be the defensive version of the Leftwich-Garrard debates!

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I've heard two firsts.

If that's the case, you just gave up 2 (probably high) first round picks for one player who you now have to give the richest defensive contract in history.... that doesn't seem smart.

Playing Devil's Advocate for the moment...name two Jaguars defensive first rounders over the years you would keep over Jalen Ramsey.

To be fair, the only other 1st round defensive players this team has drafted that was even worth keeping would be Stroud and Henderson IIRC.

And no I wouldn’t trade Ramsey for either of them.

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Jaguars Fundamentalist

I've heard two firsts.

If that's the case, you just gave up 2 (probably high) first round picks for one player who you now have to give the richest defensive contract in history.... that doesn't seem smart.

Playing Devil's Advocate for the moment...name two Jaguars defensive first rounders over the years you would keep over Jalen Ramsey.

Well since you didn't trade for Ramsey.. Jalen Ramsey and fill in the _____

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Here’s the total compensation and it’s a haul:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...cond-back/

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Here’s the total compensation and it’s a haul:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...cond-back/

You beat me to it.

The Bears did get a 2nd round pick in 2020.

Not nearly as bad as it was portrayed.

As one of the commenters noted...

"that was robbery,
a second this year = 1st next year
Bears 2020 1st = Raiders 2019 2nd
you basically got Mack+ 5th 2019 (conditional) for 1st (2019) + 2019 (4th ) + 2019 (6th)

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

60 million signing bonus?
Redunkulus

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Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

60 million signing bonus?
Redunkulus

Yep, wow..6 years, 140 millions with 90 guaranteed 60 of which at the signing. Massive deal

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I should have played football.... [BLEEP] me

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

I should have played football.... [BLEEP] me

Meh, one of the most elite young players in the league just got Jordan Zimmermann money. You should have played baseball.

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Also, you know how much Yannick's has to be drooling right now. We're going to have to dig real deep to keep him.

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I should have played football.... [BLEEP] me

Meh, one of the most elite young players in the league just got Jordan Zimmermann money. You should have played baseball.

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Also, you know how much Yannick's has to be drooling right now. We're going to have to dig real deep to keep him.

That's exactttttttly what I been thinking. If he ends up having the massive year we all hope he does, he is going to get PAID. Let's just say he ends up having an allpro year and DPOY... he may even want this type money.

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Meh, one of the most elite young players in the league just got Jordan Zimmermann money. You should have played baseball.

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Also, you know how much Yannick's has to be drooling right now. We're going to have to dig real deep to keep him.

That's exactttttttly what I been thinking. If he ends up having the massive year we all hope he does, he is going to get PAID. Let's just say he ends up having an allpro year and DPOY... he may even want this type money.

Considering it will be 2 more years down the road (barring an ugly holdout hopefully), he'll want a bigger deal.

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Campbell's deal looks bargain basement right now.

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Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

Gruden is an idiot I mean wow. Thats like us trading away Ramsey/Yannick/Telvin any of them really why would you do that haha.

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No Fun

Wow. What a day to be a Raider fan. Must feel bad for them.

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Gruden is an idiot I mean wow. Thats like us trading away Ramsey/Yannick/Telvin any of them really why would you do that haha.

Giving those fans in Oakland one last 'Raiders' season!!!

Yes Oakland have some cap space and picks but i see this as judging what you have against what you could have.

You can't doubt Mack's quality, when they got to the playoffs 2 seasons ago, he was the guy making the game winning plays. He was their guy. No replacement this year and whist they have 2 1st rounders, how useful are they if the Bears go to the playoffs? Not going to get a Mack picking 15-25 without a huge slice of luck or your trading to go back up the draft and there go the 2 1st rounders. I get where guys are coming from with the picks AND the contract but he's a top level talent, those guys get paid.

The Bears have made some really nice moves this summer and that NFC North is going to be brutal.

And Mack seriously got paid. $90m guaranteed, $60m guaranteed at signing!!

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I should have played football.... [BLEEP] me

Meh, one of the most elite young players in the league just got Jordan Zimmermann money. You should have played baseball.

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Also, you know how much Yannick's has to be drooling right now. We're going to have to dig real deep to keep him.

Or basketball lol

But yeah, I'm getting a little scared to see what Ngakoue's deal will be

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS