The funny thing about the claim that Mexico would pay for it, is that is was so outrageous that even the most ardent Trump supporters didn’t take it seriously.  There is no expectation that Mexico was ever gonna foot the bill.

Maybe no expectation from you, but I think you overestimate your fellow man.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

The funny thing about the claim that Mexico would pay for it, is that is was so outrageous that even the most ardent Trump supporters didn’t take it seriously.  There is no expectation that Mexico was ever gonna foot the bill.

You must be new here.

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The funny thing about the claim that Mexico would pay for it, is that is was so outrageous that even the most ardent Trump supporters didn’t take it seriously.  There is no expectation that Mexico was ever gonna foot the bill.

You must be new here.

Rational thinkers understood what he meant. Irrational thinkers thought he meant a paper check being written.

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The funny thing about the claim that Mexico would pay for it, is that is was so outrageous that even the most ardent Trump supporters didn’t take it seriously.  There is no expectation that Mexico was ever gonna foot the bill.

Just another example of Trump's complete inability to tell the truth.

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You must be new here.

Rational thinkers understood what he meant. Irrational thinkers thought he meant a paper check being written.

I take people at their word. I never believed him, but he said Mexico would pay for the wall and he never elaborated. He stirred up all the "Trumpettes" vowing we wouldn't pay for the construction and we'll end up paying for it anyway.

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The wall needs to happen. It just does.

And it's not even about criminals or crime or any of that stuff for me.

It's simply unfair to European, Asian, Middle Eastern people that have to fly or take ships to get here. Whereas south Americans can simply walk across.

It's not fair to the people that immigrate legally. Period.

Let's suppose you're right.  Then it would become unfair that Canadians could come here with no wall.  So we'd need an even longer wall up there next, right?

I know you are hell bent on making this about race but apples and oranges comparison here.  Canadians are not marching in mass to cross the border (well except those snow birds but they go back on their volition after SPENDING THEIR OWN MONEY HERE).  There is no movement of Canadians coming to this country illegally.  Heck if anything judging by all the left wing elitist that vowed to move north after 2016 maybe the Canadians should be building their own wall.  That's a discussion for another day perhaps.  

I have a question for you and the rest of the liberal left wing, why do you support this undocumented worker abuse?   Let's look at some realities here.  Federal minimum wage is $7.25 I believe.  Joe Smoe business owner decides to circumvent the system and hires an "undocumented" worker at say $4.50 an hour.  Here is what happens next.  1.  The federal government gets zero tax revenue from this transaction.  2.  The "undocumented" worker, because he/she is here illegally is getting taken advantage of by the employer.  3.  Because people are willing to work outside the system wages are deflated for everyone.  I could go on but let's just use these 3 examples for discussion.  Why would the party that advocates for bigger government, fair wages and equality for all support this abuse to our neighbors south of the border?

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Let's suppose you're right.  Then it would become unfair that Canadians could come here with no wall.  So we'd need an even longer wall up there next, right?

I know you are hell bent on making this about race but apples and oranges comparison here.  Canadians are not marching in mass to cross the border (well except those snow birds but they go back on their volition after SPENDING THEIR OWN MONEY HERE).  There is no movement of Canadians coming to this country illegally.  Heck if anything judging by all the left wing elitist that vowed to move north after 2016 maybe the Canadians should be building their own wall.  That's a discussion for another day perhaps.  

I have a question for you and the rest of the liberal left wing, why do you support this undocumented worker abuse?   Let's look at some realities here.  Federal minimum wage is $7.25 I believe.  Joe Smoe business owner decides to circumvent the system and hires an "undocumented" worker at say $4.50 an hour.  Here is what happens next.  1.  The federal government gets zero tax revenue from this transaction.  2.  The "undocumented" worker, because he/she is here illegally is getting taken advantage of by the employer.  3.  Because people are willing to work outside the system wages are deflated for everyone.  I could go on but let's just use these 3 examples for discussion.  Why would the party that advocates for bigger government, fair wages and equality for all support this abuse to our neighbors south of the border?

I'm not trying to start a conversation about race.
I thought TrivialPursuit made very poor use of logic in his comment, and I was just pointing that out.
I don't really believe most of the things that you seem to think I believe. I can't answer your questions because there are too many false assumptions behind them.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Trump's Department of Homeland Security puts the cost of the border wall at over 21 billion dollars (21.7 to be exact).

Assuming Go Fund Me collects 1.7 million dollars a day, every day, from donors, it will only take 35 years to raise the money. That doesn't include upkeep costs.

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“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

I know you are hell bent on making this about race but apples and oranges comparison here.  Canadians are not marching in mass to cross the border (well except those snow birds but they go back on their volition after SPENDING THEIR OWN MONEY HERE).  There is no movement of Canadians coming to this country illegally.  Heck if anything judging by all the left wing elitist that vowed to move north after 2016 maybe the Canadians should be building their own wall.  That's a discussion for another day perhaps.  

I have a question for you and the rest of the liberal left wing, why do you support this undocumented worker abuse?   Let's look at some realities here.  Federal minimum wage is $7.25 I believe.  Joe Smoe business owner decides to circumvent the system and hires an "undocumented" worker at say $4.50 an hour.  Here is what happens next.  1.  The federal government gets zero tax revenue from this transaction.  2.  The "undocumented" worker, because he/she is here illegally is getting taken advantage of by the employer.  3.  Because people are willing to work outside the system wages are deflated for everyone.  I could go on but let's just use these 3 examples for discussion.  Why would the party that advocates for bigger government, fair wages and equality for all support this abuse to our neighbors south of the border?

I'm not trying to start a conversation about race.
I thought TrivialPursuit made very poor use of logic in his comment, and I was just pointing that out.
I don't really believe most of the things that you seem to think I believe. I can't answer your questions because there are too many false assumptions behind them.

Then enlighten me as to my false assumptions please and show me the errors of my way.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I'm not trying to start a conversation about race.
I thought TrivialPursuit made very poor use of logic in his comment, and I was just pointing that out.
I don't really believe most of the things that you seem to think I believe. I can't answer your questions because there are too many false assumptions behind them.

Then enlighten me as to my false assumptions please and show me the errors of my way.

I don't "support this undocumented worker abuse."
I think we need fencing and other things to prevent illegal crossing. But a wall doesn't add value compared to a fence.
I think we should allow increased legal immigration as long as unemployment is low.  And it's low now. If unemployment gets higher, reduce, and don't renew the visas of those here now.
I think if we did this, made our policy responsive to the actual job market, there would be less inclination for people to try to come over and get a job illegally.
And I don't want any workers that have to simultaneously avoid the cops and the tax man.  If you work here, pay our taxes.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

You must be new here.

Rational thinkers understood what he meant. Irrational thinkers thought he meant a paper check being written.

You really think Donald Trump is capable of clever wordplay? The man can barely put together a tweet without devolving into covfefe and you want me to believe that his repeated promise to make Mexico pay for the wall was a clever bit of wordplay understood only to Trump voters this whole time?

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Is Mikesez JW?

I swear it feels like he has Asperger's Syndrome.

Obviously there is no illegal immigration from Canada. It's all occurring on the southern border where the entire continent is comprised of third world countries. Canada is part of the first world and therefore no need exists to ILLEGALLY immigrate here.

I thought that was obvious to everyone and didn't need to be said.

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Rational thinkers understood what he meant. Irrational thinkers thought he meant a paper check being written.

You really think Donald Trump is capable of clever wordplay? The man can barely put together a tweet without devolving into covfefe and you want me to believe that his repeated promise to make Mexico pay for the wall was a clever bit of wordplay understood only to Trump voters this whole time?

I always took it to mean that Mexico would pay for it by means of better, more advantageous trade agreements..

Never thought they'd write a check...

Although we could remind them of their utter failures in the Mexican-American war and say they only have a country because we didn't want the land they have now.... (yes, I'm joking, don't take this literally)

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Obviously there is no illegal immigration from Canada. 

Unless you count those damn geese.  

They're everywhere- crapping all over the golf courses, sauntering around, holding up traffic like they own the road.   We need to put up a big net across the Canadian border to keep them out.

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Obviously there is no illegal immigration from Canada. 

Unless you count those damn geese.  

They're everywhere- crapping all over the golf courses, sauntering around, holding up traffic like they own the road.   We need to put up a big net across the Canadian border to keep them out.

Let's start THAT GoFundMe

TheRealMarty's Net

I think everyone, no matter what their ideology, can get behind this movement.

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Border funding passes house. Will it pass Senate? Geriatric Chick and Nancy are not happy about having to work the holidays.

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Border funding passes house. Will it pass Senate? 

I think we already know the answer to that one.  

It's gonna be interesting when Trump is playing golf, surrounded by Secret Service agents who are not being paid.

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Border funding passes house. Will it pass Senate? 

I think we already know the answer to that one.  

It's gonna be interesting when Trump is playing golf, surrounded by Secret Service agents who are not being paid.

I think Trump will stand firm on this. There is too much talk IMO about how a shutdown will impact 2020. I don't think it will. In fact, I think it will make the democrats look even more horrible than they already do. People in the other 45 states do not want illegal immigration.

I expect Trump to stand firm on this. It is the only option he has. If he doesn't, his base will roast him.

Also, don't feel too bad for the federal employees. They will get retro pay after the shutdown ends.

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Border funding passes house. Will it pass Senate? 

I think we already know the answer to that one.  

It's gonna be interesting when Trump is playing golf, surrounded by Secret Service agents who are not being paid.

They get paid by DHS and that funding bill was already passed. Goverment shutdown is just a scare tactic and only has short-term impacts on non-essential agencies/services.

---

Is Mikesez JW?

I swear it feels like he has Asperger's Syndrome.

Obviously there is no illegal immigration from Canada. It's all occurring on the southern border where the entire continent is comprised of third world countries. Canada is part of the first world and therefore no need exists to ILLEGALLY immigrate here.

I thought that was obvious to everyone and didn't need to be said.

---

You really think Donald Trump is capable of clever wordplay? The man can barely put together a tweet without devolving into covfefe and you want me to believe that his repeated promise to make Mexico pay for the wall was a clever bit of wordplay understood only to Trump voters this whole time?

I always took it to mean that Mexico would pay for it by means of better, more advantageous trade agreements..

Never thought they'd write a check...

Although we could remind them of their utter failures in the Mexican-American war and say they only have a country because we didn't want the land they have now.... (yes, I'm joking, don't take this literally)

That's not what Trump said though. He never even eluded to such a thing.

---

Is Mikesez JW?

I swear it feels like he has Asperger's Syndrome.

Obviously there is no illegal immigration from Canada. It's all occurring on the southern border where the entire continent is comprised of third world countries. Canada is part of the first world and therefore no need exists to ILLEGALLY immigrate here.

I thought that was obvious to everyone and didn't need to be said.

---

I always took it to mean that Mexico would pay for it by means of better, more advantageous trade agreements..

Never thought they'd write a check...

Although we could remind them of their utter failures in the Mexican-American war and say they only have a country because we didn't want the land they have now.... (yes, I'm joking, don't take this literally)

That's not what Trump said though. He never even eluded to such a thing.

Actually, that is exactly what he eluded to...

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-me...ca-2018-12

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Is Mikesez JW?

I swear it feels like he has Asperger's Syndrome.

Obviously there is no illegal immigration from Canada. It's all occurring on the southern border where the entire continent is comprised of third world countries. Canada is part of the first world and therefore no need exists to ILLEGALLY immigrate here.

I thought that was obvious to everyone and didn't need to be said.

---

You really think Donald Trump is capable of clever wordplay? The man can barely put together a tweet without devolving into covfefe and you want me to believe that his repeated promise to make Mexico pay for the wall was a clever bit of wordplay understood only to Trump voters this whole time?

I always took it to mean that Mexico would pay for it by means of better, more advantageous trade agreements..

Never thought they'd write a check...

Although we could remind them of their utter failures in the Mexican-American war and say they only have a country because we didn't want the land they have now.... (yes, I'm joking, don't take this literally)

No, I do not have Aspberger's.  One of the main signs of Aspberger's is that they miss body language.  Here at this wall of text we don't have body language, so if someone's taking a joke seriously or failing to perceive anger, that can seem like Aspberger's.
In person I sometimes say the wrong thing, hurt feelings, etc., but like most people I can perceive right away that the other person is offended or hurt.
Anyhow, your argument about fairness was really poorly worded.  Especially considering that geopolitics and economics are inherently unfair.  Neither of us chose to be born in a first world country and no Hondurans chose to be born in Honduras.  It's unfair that we get to be here and they have to be there.
Fairness has nothing to do with where we should be focusing border control resources.  But you know this, and you correctly pointed out that we should actually focus on where illegal crossings happen today.
So we don't have a difference of opinion there.
But if you think a solid continuous wall is the best way to control things, we have a pretty big difference of opinion on that.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.