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Nick Foles


(12-11-2019, 02:09 PM)TJBender Wrote:
(12-11-2019, 10:02 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: Most have have been unreasonably hard on Nick Foles.

He shouldn’t have been playing at all. Rushing him back from a broken collarbone behind an offensive line that can’t block was a recipe for failure.

Exactly.  Good to see you are a reasonable person outside the political forum. haha. jk
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(12-11-2019, 02:09 PM)TJBender Wrote:
(12-11-2019, 10:02 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: Most have have been unreasonably hard on Nick Foles.

He shouldn’t have been playing at all. Rushing him back from a broken collarbone behind an offensive line that can’t block was a recipe for failure.

Have to agree
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(12-11-2019, 12:29 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(12-11-2019, 10:24 AM)Jags Wrote: I was very “Pro Foles” even before he officially became a FA.  I thought with consistent average to above average play we had a chance to repeat 2017.  I admit I was wrong.  I’ve been duped.  I’ve been bamboozeled. Last time I felt this violated was when I came home one day to find the house was broke into.  Well, maybe not to that degree.  

I figured he’d be an upgrade from BB.  More accurate, on time and more consistent.  I will not be applying for the new GM position apparently.

Nothing else about this team is as effective as it was in 2017, that matters more than how Foles looked this year.

I can’t argue that.  I do feel Foles was rushed back. Would have been nice to see him with a decent OL and at least a decent TE.  Couple that with a D that was a year removed from being close to elite and that could have had wondrous results.  But there is too many holes now.  Even 100% Foles behind this line wouldn’t work.  I can’t blame it on the guy that missed most the season. I’d be scared too behind this line and a recently healed clavicle.  Even if he did work out he was still only a short term solution.  Now the Minshew train has departed, I’m hoping he along with some good additions in the next couple years can bring us back into the hunt.
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I'd like to see somewhere, besides on this board, that he was 'rushed back'. LOL
[Image: IMG-1452.jpg]
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(12-12-2019, 08:49 AM)Rico Wrote: I'd like to see somewhere, besides on this board, that he was 'rushed back'.  LOL

I'd like to see somewhere besides on this board, that we have NFL caliber receivers on this roster that can create separation.
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(This post was last modified: 12-12-2019, 09:12 AM by RicoTx.)

(12-12-2019, 08:53 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 08:49 AM)Rico Wrote: I'd like to see somewhere, besides on this board, that he was 'rushed back'.  LOL

I'd like to see somewhere besides on this board, that we have NFL caliber receivers on this roster that can create separation.

Chark.

And I've seen receivers with plenty of separation.  They just aren't getting thrown to.  Keep making excuses for Foles.  He has been nowhere close to advertised.
[Image: IMG-1452.jpg]
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(12-12-2019, 08:53 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 08:49 AM)Rico Wrote: I'd like to see somewhere, besides on this board, that he was 'rushed back'.  LOL

I'd like to see somewhere besides on this board, that we have NFL caliber receivers on this roster that can create separation.
Then maybe venture outside of this board......
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(12-12-2019, 09:07 AM)Rico Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 08:53 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: I'd like to see somewhere besides on this board, that we have NFL caliber receivers on this roster that can create separation.

Chark.

And I've seen receivers with plenty of separation.  They just aren't getting thrown to.  Keep making excuses for Foles.  He has been nowhere close to advertised.

So you are saying Minshew isn't seeing them and throwing to them? Got it.
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(12-12-2019, 10:37 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 09:07 AM)Rico Wrote: Chark.

And I've seen receivers with plenty of separation.  They just aren't getting thrown to.  Keep making excuses for Foles.  He has been nowhere close to advertised.

So you are saying Minshew isn't seeing them and throwing to them? Got it.

No, I'm just saying that you have no idea what you're talking about.  Got it?
[Image: IMG-1452.jpg]
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(12-12-2019, 10:41 AM)Rico Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 10:37 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: So you are saying Minshew isn't seeing them and throwing to them? Got it.

No, I'm just saying that you have no idea what you're talking about.  Got it?

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge. What you do best Rico.
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(This post was last modified: 12-12-2019, 11:01 AM by RicoTx.)

(12-12-2019, 10:54 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 10:41 AM)Rico Wrote: No, I'm just saying that you have no idea what you're talking about.  Got it?

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge. What you do best Rico.

Please do point out where I did any of that.  If anything, you've described your posts.
[Image: IMG-1452.jpg]
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(12-12-2019, 11:00 AM)Rico Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 10:54 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge. What you do best Rico.

Please do point out where I did any of that.  If anything, you've described your posts.

You said you have seen receivers get plenty of separation and not be thrown to and are bagging on the QB who is literally not playing and throwing to said receivers who are creating separation.

Bottom line. Foles is a better NFL QB than Minshew at this point in their careers.
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(12-12-2019, 11:06 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 11:00 AM)Rico Wrote: Please do point out where I did any of that.  If anything, you've described your posts.

You said you have seen receivers get plenty of separation and not be thrown to and are bagging on the QB who is literally not playing and throwing to said receivers who are creating separation.

Bottom line. Foles is a better NFL QB than Minshew at this point in their careers.
As evidence by Minshew starting and Foles sitting the bench.....

Chark has been a top 10 WR this season and you really can't argue against it. Tied for 3rd in TD catches. 13th in yards. All while flip flopping QBs this season which is pretty darn impressive. He has made contested catches, deep catches and has battled against #1 corners all season.
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(12-12-2019, 08:53 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 08:49 AM)Rico Wrote: I'd like to see somewhere, besides on this board, that he was 'rushed back'.  LOL

I'd like to see somewhere besides on this board, that we have NFL caliber receivers on this roster that can create separation.
Wish granted:


NFL NextGen Stats lists Dede Westbrook at an average of 3.3 yards of separation on average
(comp: Tyreek Hill is listed at 3.2)

DJ Chark is ,isted at 2.7 yards avg separation
(comp: Amari Cooper is 2.6)

Chris Conley is listed at 2.2 yards on avg
(comp: Allen Robinson is 2.2  and Mike Evans 2.4)

Here is your "outside this board" source: 
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/recei...separation



In order to understand the full scope of this issue, you need to be able to differentiate between three categories of failed pass attempts. 
  • Hurried or delayed  throw due to pressure (and sometimes evasion)
  • Quality coverage - lack of separation
  • Poor decision from the QB
The Jags have had a significant number of all of these this season, but if I had to choose one that was the least of our problems, it would be the coverage/separation issue. 

Also - I pray to the football gods that our next coaching staff realizes what they have in Dede Westbrook and works him as a Z receiver deep threat on a solid number of pass attempts each week. He's so much more than a slot receiver and should be utilized as such.  He was forced into a lesser role this season to some degree by injuries at the F tight end and he ended up running those routes for several weeks.
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(12-12-2019, 11:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 08:53 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: I'd like to see somewhere besides on this board, that we have NFL caliber receivers on this roster that can create separation.
Wish granted:


NFL NextGen Stats lists Dede Westbrook at an average of 3.3 yards of separation on average
(comp: Tyreek Hill is listed at 3.2)

DJ Chark is ,isted at 2.7 yards avg separation
(comp: Amari Cooper is 2.6)

Chris Conley is listed at 2.2 yards on avg
(comp: Allen Robinson is 2.2  and Mike Evans 2.4)

Here is your "outside this board" source: 
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/recei...separation



In order to understand the full scope of this issue, you need to be able to differentiate between three categories of failed pass attempts. 
  • Hurried or delayed  throw due to pressure (and sometimes evasion)
  • Quality coverage - lack of separation
  • Poor decision from the QB
The Jags have had a significant number of all of these this season, but if I had to choose one that was the least of our problems, it would be the coverage/separation issue. 

Also - I pray to the football gods that our next coaching staff realizes what they have in Dede Westbrook and works him as a Z receiver deep threat on a solid number of pass attempts each week. He's so much more than a slot receiver and should be utilized as such.  He was forced into a lesser role this season to some degree by injuries at the F tight end and he ended up running those routes for several weeks.
And in classic Stroud fashion, when he is proven wrong, he will disappear.
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(This post was last modified: 12-12-2019, 11:28 AM by StroudCrowd1.)

(12-12-2019, 11:14 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 11:06 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: You said you have seen receivers get plenty of separation and not be thrown to and are bagging on the QB who is literally not playing and throwing to said receivers who are creating separation.

Bottom line. Foles is a better NFL QB than Minshew at this point in their careers.
As evidence by Minshew starting and Foles sitting the bench.....

Chark has been a top 10 WR this season and you really can't argue against it. Tied for 3rd in TD catches. 13th in yards. All while flip flopping QBs this season which is pretty darn impressive. He has made contested catches, deep catches and has battled against #1 corners all season.

A decision made by a coaching staff that will be looking for new jobs next year.

You guys do realize that with your "separation" stats, you are also saying Minshew isn't that good at the same time, right? You have painted yourself into the corner of an unwinnable argument.
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(12-12-2019, 11:26 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 11:14 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: As evidence by Minshew starting and Foles sitting the bench.....

Chark has been a top 10 WR this season and you really can't argue against it. Tied for 3rd in TD catches. 13th in yards. All while flip flopping QBs this season which is pretty darn impressive. He has made contested catches, deep catches and has battled against #1 corners all season.

A decision made by a coaching staff that will be looking for new jobs next year.

You guys do realize that with your "separation" stats, you are also saying Minshew isn't that good at the same time, right? You have painted yourself into the corner of an unwinnable argument.

Minshew made his fair share of mental errors and missed his fair share of open receivers. 

I'd say that Foles did so a bit more, but my actual opinion is that Foles was much more affected by pressure than Minshew and that was the primary difference in their performance. The reason Foles mental errors stand out against Minshew's is that they were of the glaring variety whereas Minshew's were not as obvious at first glance. 

You should probably go ahead and concede you were wrong about our receivers gaining separation though.
Foles rarely had time to get them the ball without duress, whereas Minshew was sometimes able to create time to get them the ball despite duress. .
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(12-12-2019, 11:26 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 11:14 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: As evidence by Minshew starting and Foles sitting the bench.....

Chark has been a top 10 WR this season and you really can't argue against it. Tied for 3rd in TD catches. 13th in yards. All while flip flopping QBs this season which is pretty darn impressive. He has made contested catches, deep catches and has battled against #1 corners all season.

A decision made by a coaching staff that will be looking for new jobs next year.

You guys do realize that with your "separation" stats, you are also saying Minshew isn't that good at the same time, right? You have painted yourself into the corner of an unwinnable argument.

I was talking about Foles.  You brought up Minshew in your typical fashion.  But keep those tap shoes a-workin'.

Bottom line...Foles is not that good.  Which...you know...is actually the topic of this thread.
[Image: IMG-1452.jpg]
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(12-12-2019, 11:26 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(12-12-2019, 11:14 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: As evidence by Minshew starting and Foles sitting the bench.....

Chark has been a top 10 WR this season and you really can't argue against it. Tied for 3rd in TD catches. 13th in yards. All while flip flopping QBs this season which is pretty darn impressive. He has made contested catches, deep catches and has battled against #1 corners all season.

A decision made by a coaching staff that will be looking for new jobs next year.

You guys do realize that with your "separation" stats, you are also saying Minshew isn't that good at the same time, right? You have painted yourself into the corner of an unwinnable argument.
Changing the topic because you were proven wrong? Classic.

And of course Minshew is going to miss some throws. He's a 6th round rookie lol
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