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A Draft Strategy Question

#21

(01-06-2019, 05:26 PM)roycee Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 05:09 PM)JackCity Wrote: Yeah Tyree Jackson in the 2nd.

I get the hype surrounding him. But I'm not buying into it. To me dudes a mid round pick.

Whats the highest you'd draft him?  

He's better than Allen was coming out but has similar development needs. I think working with NFL coaches can clean up some issues but would have been best if he stayed another year as a grad transfer. Guess he's making the most of a weak class.
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#22

(01-06-2019, 05:26 PM)roycee Wrote: I get the hype surrounding him. But I'm not buying into it. To me dudes a mid round pick.

Apparently he got a "stay in school" from the draft advisory board which is 3rd round or later.

That's not surprising, the draft advisory board is typically very conservative with their draft grades...especially for QBs.

Which does help go to show how special even they think Haskins is to give him a 1st round grade.

I would personally be happy with Tyree in the 3rd.
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#23
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2019, 06:29 PM by TheAll22.)

Here' the Strategy - Don't let the media or today's latest trends dictate what you do or how you evaluate. A good GM knows which QB's hoist the Lombardi trophy at the end of the year. It's not the one-trick flash in the pan or 6'8 bean pole with the big arm or the overhyped party boy who was good in college.

There is no generational player in this draft. Haskins is talented but New York can have him. I'm not mortgaging picks to get him.

Grier is a real talent and I'd wait it out to 7 and take him there or even risk waiting till round 2.

It's not a deep class, maybe one or two guys become franchise players, but don't let the starvation of needing a QB keep you hostage to what's available. This team needs pass rushers and O-lineman as well. I'd pass on Haskins for an elite edge rusher while waiting for Grier in round 2.

There are more talking heads in the media today than ever before and with no more qualification than anyone on this message board - They can beat on us for not taking this guy or that guy with their hindsight reasoning. Meanwhile, you know that they miss on all of these players way more and with no accountability. I was watching these same pundits trash Jackson and Watson on Twitter this weekend. A few analysts were so offended that Flacco didn't start today - So let that be your lesson, that's the strategy.


**Side note: I could see the Jags moving back into round one with the extra picks from the Fowler trade. Maybe there is a trading partner for Fournette as well?
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#24

I’d either trade up to get that man Haskins or trade down and grab a different QB and pull a Browns. They took Kizer in the second, tanked the season basically while evaluating Kizer to see if he could fit with the team as a backup, then got their franchise guy in Baker Mayfield next draft.

Basically what I’m saying is... if we don’t get Haskins this draft... I sure hope they still pick one early this draft but then dip back into QB pool 2020. Keep drafting a QB till you get it right. Browns even got good return for Kizer. They did it right.
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#25

(01-06-2019, 05:42 PM)Upper Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 05:26 PM)roycee Wrote: I get the hype surrounding him. But I'm not buying into it. To me dudes a mid round pick.

Apparently he got a "stay in school" from the draft advisory board which is 3rd round or later.

That's not surprising, the draft advisory board is typically very conservative with their draft grades...especially for QBs.

Which does help go to show how special even they think Haskins is to give him a 1st round grade.

I would personally be happy with Tyree in the 3rd.


If we take a QB on day 3 my guy is Rypien
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#26

(01-06-2019, 07:02 PM)roycee Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 05:42 PM)Upper Wrote: That's not surprising, the draft advisory board is typically very conservative with their draft grades...especially for QBs.

Which does help go to show how special even they think Haskins is to give him a 1st round grade.

I would personally be happy with Tyree in the 3rd.


If we take a QB on day 3 my guy is Rypien

I'd say Rypien is a lock for day 2
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#27

I'd be ok with either Jackson or Rypien with our 3rd rounder. I'd make sure I still take a QB in 2020 though.
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#28

(01-06-2019, 02:39 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 02:28 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: IMO, Haskins has the chance to be special. Herbert looked very average this past season and I'm still on the fence about Tua, besides, he might stay in for the 2020 class. Next year's draft class doesn't get me too excited. I really, really like Haskins though and if we trade #6, next years first round pick, one of our 3rds, I do it it without hesitation.

2020 IS next year's draft.  Are you saying he may not come out until 2021?

We have the #7, not 6.

I really like what I've seen with Haskins.

I have a couple concerns:

1.  one year's starting experience
2.  Urban Meyer's system/OSU's QB history

That's what I am saying. He is a Sophomore now, so after next season, he'll still have another year left. There is no guarantee he'll declare as a Junior. What if we wait around expecting to get Tua in 2020 and he decides to play college football his Senior season? We'd be screwed and we'd be going into the 2020 season, still without a QB. 

My bad on the pick. 

Is one year of starting experience concerning? Of course, but Mitchell Trubisky was a one year starter and he's been looking pretty good this year. Also, his college stats weren't nearly as impressive as Haskins. As far as the system, Urban Meyer really tweaked his offense with Haskins. He is not a runner like past OSU QB's. He's bigger and slower and is more of a pure pocket passer. He wins games with his arm, not his feet. Braxton Miller, J.T. Barrett and Terrelle Pryor won games with their feet. They had a much more balanced offense this year with Haskins. They've always had athletes at QB under Meyer, but never a true QB like Haskins. He wasn't even on my radar at the beginning of the year, but over the course of the season, he made me a believer.
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#29

(01-06-2019, 08:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 02:39 PM)Bullseye Wrote: 2020 IS next year's draft.  Are you saying he may not come out until 2021?

We have the #7, not 6.

I really like what I've seen with Haskins.

I have a couple concerns:

1.  one year's starting experience
2.  Urban Meyer's system/OSU's QB history

That's what I am saying. He is a Sophomore now, so after next season, he'll still have another year left. There is no guarantee he'll declare as a Junior. What if we wait around expecting to get Tua in 2020 and he decides to play college football his Senior season? We'd be screwed and we'd be going into the 2020 season, still without a QB. 

My bad on the pick. 

Is one year of starting experience concerning? Of course, but Mitchell Trubisky was a one year starter and he's been looking pretty good this year. Also, his college stats weren't nearly as impressive as Haskins. As far as the system, Urban Meyer really tweaked his offense with Haskins. He is not a runner like past OSU QB's. He's bigger and slower and is more of a pure pocket passer. He wins games with his arm, not his feet. Braxton Miller, J.T. Barrett and Terrelle Pryor won games with their feet. They had a much more balanced offense this year with Haskins. They've always had athletes at QB under Meyer, but never a true QB like Haskins. He wasn't even on my radar at the beginning of the year, but over the course of the season, he made me a believer.
I mean.... he threw for 50 TDS!

Has an OSU guy ever done that under Meyer?
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#30

(01-06-2019, 05:26 PM)roycee Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 05:09 PM)JackCity Wrote: Yeah Tyree Jackson in the 2nd.

I get the hype surrounding him. But I'm not buying into it. To me dudes a mid round pick.

Apparently he got a "stay in school" from the draft advisory board which is 3rd round or later.

According to ESPN, he received a high first round grade from the draft advisory committee.
Reply

#31
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2019, 08:34 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(01-06-2019, 05:37 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 05:26 PM)roycee Wrote: I get the hype surrounding him. But I'm not buying into it. To me dudes a mid round pick.

Whats the highest you'd draft him?  

He's better than Allen was coming out but has similar development needs. I think working with NFL coaches can clean up some issues but would have been best if he stayed another year as a grad transfer. Guess he's making the most of a weak class.

IMO, Tyree Jackson is undraftable. Dude is way too raw with his technique, makes bad decisions and his accuracy is abysmal. He only completed 55.3% of his passes this season. He has a cannon, but that's about it. He's like Bortles with a much stronger arm. Someone will likely draft him in the 3rd or 4th round though as a project.
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#32

(01-06-2019, 08:26 PM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 08:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: That's what I am saying. He is a Sophomore now, so after next season, he'll still have another year left. There is no guarantee he'll declare as a Junior. What if we wait around expecting to get Tua in 2020 and he decides to play college football his Senior season? We'd be screwed and we'd be going into the 2020 season, still without a QB. 

My bad on the pick. 

Is one year of starting experience concerning? Of course, but Mitchell Trubisky was a one year starter and he's been looking pretty good this year. Also, his college stats weren't nearly as impressive as Haskins. As far as the system, Urban Meyer really tweaked his offense with Haskins. He is not a runner like past OSU QB's. He's bigger and slower and is more of a pure pocket passer. He wins games with his arm, not his feet. Braxton Miller, J.T. Barrett and Terrelle Pryor won games with their feet. They had a much more balanced offense this year with Haskins. They've always had athletes at QB under Meyer, but never a true QB like Haskins. He wasn't even on my radar at the beginning of the year, but over the course of the season, he made me a believer.
I mean.... he threw for 50 TDS!



Has an OSU guy ever done that under Meyer?

No. No one even came close to 50 passing TD's.
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#33

I'm not going up for any of these guys.

I'd go down to mid first for a deal that nets me 3 additional >4th round picks this /next year. At least one of them is next year's 1, ie flip 1s and gain this year's 2 along with next year's 1 and 3. Take the BAP this year and if a QB fits there then fine.

Otherwise take the BAP at 7.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#34

IMO, ideally we land Haskins and we make an offer in free agency to Kevin Hogan. He is a restricted free agent, but if we offer him a 2 year, low end starter contract, he should be easy to get. I also bring in a late round/UDFA QB as well. My intention would be to have Hogan as the teams starting QB to begin the season and bring Haskins along at his own pace. There is absolutely no reason at all to trade for a guy like Flacco or spend a ton of free agent money on a QB like Foles, simply to be a bridge QB. I've always been a fan of Hogan and feel he can be that guy to lead this team (hopefully no later than the first 10 games of the season,) until Haskins is ready. If we don't get Haskins, I would probably do just the opposite and try to get either Flacco or Foles, as I am much less confident in the rest of this QB class. If we sign either Flacco or Foles, I look to trade way down and take a QB probably in the late first/early 2nd round and go from there, giving us some wiggle room to draft another young QB in 2020 if we miss on our QB in 2019.
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#35

(01-06-2019, 06:49 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: I’d either trade up to get that man Haskins or trade down and grab a different QB and pull a Browns. They took Kizer in the second, tanked the season basically while evaluating Kizer to see if he could fit with the team as a backup, then got their franchise guy in Baker Mayfield next draft.

Basically what I’m saying is... if we don’t get Haskins this draft... I sure hope they still pick one early this draft but then dip back into QB pool 2020. Keep drafting a QB till you get it right. Browns even got good return for Kizer. They did it right.

Did they do it right?  It certainly seems to have worked out well for the franchise in the end, but everyone involved in the decisions to continually pass up top QB prospects and ultimately select Kizer got fired.
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#36

What am I prepared to do?

I don't know enough personally about Haskins to say SELL THE FARM, but if the team's scouts and management see him as the long-term fixture at the position and well worth a top-5 pick in the draft, I have absolutely no qualms about trading away extra picks to move up and get him.

If they are comfortable standing pat and taking one of the other guys, I am ok with that, too.

I think the GM especially, and Marrone to a lesser extent, realizes that if they don't get this fixed, and fixed fast, they are going to be gone. If they determine Haskins is worthy of it, I see little reason why we don't move up to get him, short of someone else way outbidding us for the same privelege.
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#37

(01-06-2019, 08:34 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 05:37 PM)JackCity Wrote: Whats the highest you'd draft him?  

He's better than Allen was coming out but has similar development needs. I think working with NFL coaches can clean up some issues but would have been best if he stayed another year as a grad transfer. Guess he's making the most of a weak class.

IMO, Tyree Jackson is undraftable. Dude is way too raw with his technique, makes bad decisions and his accuracy is abysmal. He only completed 55.3% of his passes this season. He has a cannon, but that's about it. He's like Bortles with a much stronger arm. Someone will likely draft him in the 3rd or 4th round though as a project.

Knowing that we spent a pick on Tanner Lee, I don't know how anyone can be graded 'undraftable'.
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#38

(01-06-2019, 08:34 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 05:37 PM)JackCity Wrote: Whats the highest you'd draft him?  

He's better than Allen was coming out but has similar development needs. I think working with NFL coaches can clean up some issues but would have been best if he stayed another year as a grad transfer. Guess he's making the most of a weak class.

IMO, Tyree Jackson is undraftable. Dude is way too raw with his technique, makes bad decisions and his accuracy is abysmal. He only completed 55.3% of his passes this season. He has a cannon, but that's about it. He's like Bortles with a much stronger arm. Someone will likely draft him in the 3rd or 4th round though as a project.

I'm not sure you know what players should be undraftable or not
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#39
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2019, 07:02 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(01-07-2019, 01:17 PM)Mikey Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 08:34 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: IMO, Tyree Jackson is undraftable. Dude is way too raw with his technique, makes bad decisions and his accuracy is abysmal. He only completed 55.3% of his passes this season. He has a cannon, but that's about it. He's like Bortles with a much stronger arm. Someone will likely draft him in the 3rd or 4th round though as a project.

Knowing that we spent a pick on Tanner Lee, I don't know how anyone can be graded 'undraftable'.

I had Tanner Lee as undraftable.

(01-07-2019, 02:27 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 08:34 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: IMO, Tyree Jackson is undraftable. Dude is way too raw with his technique, makes bad decisions and his accuracy is abysmal. He only completed 55.3% of his passes this season. He has a cannon, but that's about it. He's like Bortles with a much stronger arm. Someone will likely draft him in the 3rd or 4th round though as a project.

I'm not sure you know what players should be undraftable or not

I know I certainly wouldn't waste a valuable draft pick on a QB who barely completed over half his passes. I seen so-so QB's with bad receivers, who had a higher completion percentage than that.
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#40
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019, 06:25 AM by JackCity.)

(01-07-2019, 07:00 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(01-07-2019, 01:17 PM)Mikey Wrote: Knowing that we spent a pick on Tanner Lee, I don't know how anyone can be graded 'undraftable'.

I had Tanner Lee as undraftable.

(01-07-2019, 02:27 PM)JackCity Wrote: I'm not sure you know what players should be undraftable or not

I know I certainly wouldn't waste a valuable draft pick on a QB who barely completed over half his passes. I seen so-so QB's with bad receivers, who had a higher completion percentage than that.

You said you wouldn't roster Lamar or Allen , so I presume you wouldn't roster Tyree.

Would you have rostered Matt Stafford?
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