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Bortles will be a top 10 to 15 QB....Let's debate

#61
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2019, 12:52 PM by JagsFansince1995.)

(02-13-2019, 12:31 PM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: Scratch Flacco off the list he is going to Broncos per Adam Schefter

Not concerned with Flacco, I'm on the fence with Foles as well. I wanted Teddy after the year with cousins, bradford, and tbridge on the Vikings roster and we didnt get a FA QB nor did we draft one.  Now here we are again one year later with TB and now foles and tyrod.  I dont want a stop gap qb, 30 or older, i want vet backup and a rookie on the roster.  Teddy and a rookie or just keep blake and draft a rookie.  We dont need to add on another salary for someone who isnt the future franchise.  

Its just like a job.  You dont quit and then go where you hear its better before actually signing on.  You keep one and then try it out and see if you want to cut ties with the previous job at that point.  Any other way and we are wishing and praying for a miracle thats not guaranteed.
Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.
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#62

(02-12-2019, 11:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 10:59 PM)lastonealive Wrote: I said the offence not the passing offence. When you are up a lot you tend to run the ball more. Also you have to at least be efficient in a run orientated offence.

Let's not forget that same run game was terrible in 2018.

The defence doesn't catapult the offence into the top 10. They still have to move the ball.

Jags were 6th in total yards and 5th in points per game

17th in pass yards per game - 2017

1st in rush yards per game - 2017

Yeah.  It was Blake freaking Bortles carrying that team.  LOL.  You'd have to be delusional to believe that.

I think you completely misunderstand what I'm saying.

Our offence was top 10 possibly top 5. In a run first offence you require a qb to regularly convert. His receivers are poor he must have done something right?

Also if the running game carried them, why didn't they carry them the following year? Or was Blake playing well in 2017 and not in 2018?

Or was as actually was the case our oline was good in 2017 and bad in 2018? Which killed the whole offence not the qb or the rb.
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#63

(02-13-2019, 10:36 PM)lastonealive Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 11:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: 17th in pass yards per game - 2017

1st in rush yards per game - 2017

Yeah.  It was Blake freaking Bortles carrying that team.  LOL.  You'd have to be delusional to believe that.

I think you completely misunderstand what I'm saying.

Our offence was top 10 possibly top 5. In a run first offence you require a qb to regularly convert. His receivers are poor he must have done something right?

Also if the running game carried them, why didn't they carry them the following year? Or was Blake playing well in 2017 and not in 2018?

Or was as actually was the case our oline was good in 2017 and bad in 2018? Which killed the whole offence not the qb or the rb.


No.

You keep trying to rank the offense as a whole when the pass offense was woefully out of sync with the run.
You need to evaluate them separately.  Roping them together only skews perspective. 

The run game failed in 2018 because they lost 6 O-linemen and 3 running backs to injury for significant periods of time. 

You apparently want to prop up 2017 Blake Bortles far beyond the pedestal on which he belongs. He played fairly well in significant portions of 7 or 8 games.  He played inconsistently and displayed very poor accuracy the rest of the time. 
One must also recognize that he did this within the construct of a watered-down offense laden with training wheels designed to mitigate the mistakes of an inaccurate QB.  
It was fools gold, and it was unsustainable.
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#64

Troll thread
[Image: mvp.avia8a99974486b2b89.md.png]
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#65

(02-13-2019, 11:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(02-13-2019, 10:36 PM)lastonealive Wrote: I think you completely misunderstand what I'm saying.

Our offence was top 10 possibly top 5. In a run first offence you require a qb to regularly convert. His receivers are poor he must have done something right?

Also if the running game carried them, why didn't they carry them the following year? Or was Blake playing well in 2017 and not in 2018?

Or was as actually was the case our oline was good in 2017 and bad in 2018? Which killed the whole offence not the qb or the rb.


No.

You keep trying to rank the offense as a whole when the pass offense was woefully out of sync with the run.
You need to evaluate them separately.  Roping them together only skews perspective. 

The run game failed in 2018 because they lost 6 O-linemen and 3 running backs to injury for significant periods of time. 

You apparently want to prop up 2017 Blake Bortles far beyond the pedestal on which he belongs. He played fairly well in significant portions of 7 or 8 games.  He played inconsistently and displayed very poor accuracy the rest of the time. 
One must also recognize that he did this within the construct of a watered-down offense laden with training wheels designed to mitigate the mistakes of an inaccurate QB.  
It was fools gold, and it was unsustainable.

I think you are still missing the point. You just can't have a qb play bad and be a top 5 offence. 

Yes he's always been inconsistent just like every other middle of the range qb. But in 2017 he kept helping give us early leads including the Pittsburgh and new England playoff games
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#66

LOL, obviously this is a sarcastic thread and people have fallen for it.  It's just Omaha with a different name.  

No one in their right mind would seriously believe that Blake has ever been, or will be, a top 10 QB.
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#67

(02-14-2019, 06:02 AM)lastonealive Wrote:
(02-13-2019, 11:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: No.

You keep trying to rank the offense as a whole when the pass offense was woefully out of sync with the run.
You need to evaluate them separately.  Roping them together only skews perspective. 

The run game failed in 2018 because they lost 6 O-linemen and 3 running backs to injury for significant periods of time. 

You apparently want to prop up 2017 Blake Bortles far beyond the pedestal on which he belongs. He played fairly well in significant portions of 7 or 8 games.  He played inconsistently and displayed very poor accuracy the rest of the time. 
One must also recognize that he did this within the construct of a watered-down offense laden with training wheels designed to mitigate the mistakes of an inaccurate QB.  
It was fools gold, and it was unsustainable.

I think you are still missing the point. You just can't have a qb play bad and be a top 5 offence. 

Yes he's always been inconsistent just like every other middle of the range qb. But in 2017 he kept helping give us early leads including the Pittsburgh and new England playoff games
In 2017, it was the defense giving them early leads. How did Blake do against Pitt in the regular season? Then in the playoff Pitt game, Fournette scores a TD, then the defense holds Pitt to a 3 and out and then the pick off Ben to set up a 1 play Fournette 18 yard TD. Then they get an 11 play, 6 run TD drive (Blake throws for 9 yards in the drive) and then Telvin scores to give the Jags a 28-7 lead. He had a really nice throw to Cole in that game but overall, he wasn't super efficient and it was the run game and defense that gave them the lead.

Blake played extremely average in 2017 and that was apparently his breakout season. I mean the guy threw for 21 TDs and still had 13 interceptions. They took the ball out of his hands because he has always been below average and then they give him an extension.
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#68

(02-14-2019, 06:02 AM)lastonealive Wrote:
(02-13-2019, 11:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: No.

You keep trying to rank the offense as a whole when the pass offense was woefully out of sync with the run.
You need to evaluate them separately.  Roping them together only skews perspective. 

The run game failed in 2018 because they lost 6 O-linemen and 3 running backs to injury for significant periods of time. 

You apparently want to prop up 2017 Blake Bortles far beyond the pedestal on which he belongs. He played fairly well in significant portions of 7 or 8 games.  He played inconsistently and displayed very poor accuracy the rest of the time. 
One must also recognize that he did this within the construct of a watered-down offense laden with training wheels designed to mitigate the mistakes of an inaccurate QB.  
It was fools gold, and it was unsustainable.

I think you are still missing the point. You just can't have a qb play bad and be a top 5 offence. 

Yes he's always been inconsistent just like every other middle of the range qb. But in 2017 he kept helping give us early leads including the Pittsburgh and new England playoff games

I think I've made it pretty clear that we did exactly that in 2017.  He had little streaks of playing well, but on the overall he was a bad quarterback being treated with kid gloves by the coaching staff due to his propensity to turn the ball over. 

They managed to mitigate his poor play just enough in that one season to scrape into the AFCCG on the backs of defense and a run game. 

Then they made the grave error of believing that model was sustainable and they extended that bad QB. 

You can keep ignoring that #17 in passing yards per game ranking all you want -- but it clearly demonstrates Bortles marginal contribution to that offensive ranking  - and it demonstrates how the staff kept the ball out of his hands as much as they could.
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#69

(02-14-2019, 12:03 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 06:02 AM)lastonealive Wrote: I think you are still missing the point. You just can't have a qb play bad and be a top 5 offence. 

Yes he's always been inconsistent just like every other middle of the range qb. But in 2017 he kept helping give us early leads including the Pittsburgh and new England playoff games

I think I've made it pretty clear that we did exactly that in 2017.  He had little streaks of playing well, but on the overall he was a bad quarterback being treated with kid gloves by the coaching staff due to his propensity to turn the ball over. 

They managed to mitigate his poor play just enough in that one season to scrape into the AFCCG on the backs of defense and a run game. 

Then they made the grave error of believing that model was sustainable and they extended that bad QB. 

You can keep ignoring that #17 in passing yards per game ranking all you want -- but it clearly demonstrates Bortles marginal contribution to that offensive ranking  - and it demonstrates how the staff kept the ball out of his hands as much as they could.
The Jags played 3 playoff teams in 2017 (Titans twice) and went 1-3 in those games.

Bortles threw for 160 or under 7 times..... they somehow went 4-3 in those games. He threw for under 100... 100... Twice and Jags won both of those games. Blake was the same QB in 2017 as he was his entire career. The difference is that the rest of the team was so good, it made him look average.
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#70

(02-14-2019, 10:25 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 06:02 AM)lastonealive Wrote: I think you are still missing the point. You just can't have a qb play bad and be a top 5 offence. 

Yes he's always been inconsistent just like every other middle of the range qb. But in 2017 he kept helping give us early leads including the Pittsburgh and new England playoff games
In 2017, it was the defense giving them early leads. How did Blake do against Pitt in the regular season? Then in the playoff Pitt game, Fournette scores a TD, then the defense holds Pitt to a 3 and out and then the pick off Ben to set up a 1 play Fournette 18 yard TD. Then they get an 11 play, 6 run TD drive (Blake throws for 9 yards in the drive) and then Telvin scores to give the Jags a 28-7 lead. He had a really nice throw to Cole in that game but overall, he wasn't super efficient and it was the run game and defense that gave them the lead.

Blake played extremely average in 2017 and that was apparently his breakout season. I mean the guy threw for 21 TDs and still had 13 interceptions. They took the ball out of his hands because he has always been below average and then they give him an extension.

Again, No one is saying Blake was airing it out all year and throwing for 300 plus a game with 2 plus tds.  The only point i was making was, he was told basically NOT to throw and when we had to FORCE HIM to throw he did decent.  I've watched countless QBs in pass first offenses put up Blake numbers or slightly better.  Its just odd to me, and i know im in the minority, that QBs who are starting in the league in pass first offenses with star players are only slightly better than a QB who is restricted from passing.  That just makes me SMH.  

Its not like im saying oh, his 21 tds and 13 picks show he's the next brees.  Im saying he did that with forced throws after the run game was destroyed and thats mostly 3 and longs or come from behind passes due to falling behind early.  you blame blake for not airing it out and then say we didnt want him to throw in the same breathe.  WHATEVER. yall dont get it
Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.
Reply

#71
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2019, 03:42 PM by JagsFansince1995.)

(02-14-2019, 12:03 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 06:02 AM)lastonealive Wrote: I think you are still missing the point. You just can't have a qb play bad and be a top 5 offence. 

Yes he's always been inconsistent just like every other middle of the range qb. But in 2017 he kept helping give us early leads including the Pittsburgh and new England playoff games

I think I've made it pretty clear that we did exactly that in 2017.  He had little streaks of playing well, but on the overall he was a bad quarterback being treated with kid gloves by the coaching staff due to his propensity to turn the ball over. 

They managed to mitigate his poor play just enough in that one season to scrape into the AFCCG on the backs of defense and a run game. 

Then they made the grave error of believing that model was sustainable and they extended that bad QB. 

You can keep ignoring that #17 in passing yards per game ranking all you want -- but it clearly demonstrates Bortles marginal contribution to that offensive ranking  - and it demonstrates how the staff kept the ball out of his hands as much as they could.

So you dont think the run run pass offense had anything to do with him not being higher than 17th in passing yards per game.  I mean, the announcers were even mentioning in games that we were not letting him throw and actually advocated for either a new QB or to pass the ball.  I cant agree with ya'll after sitting in the stands and literally laughing with other fans about run or pass on first down.  we all said run the majority of the season and were right, yelling as we went to 2nd and long then 3rd and long or longer.  Then i see this thread saying its blakes fault he wasnt completing in those ugly situations.  

Whats also funning is when we actually called pass run run or pass run pass or anything instead of run run pass.  He actually had good games with close to or over 300 yards passing and we looked like a completely different team. I guess only me and Jalen thought we tried to lose the NE game and countless others not letting BB5 throw.  if i buy a car, im not going to complain about the gas mileage and drive 20 on the freeway.  im going to air it out every once in a while and do 60 plus like im suppose too.  if you're worried about anything else then trade it in or buy a new one.  no one cares about the excuses when it was your choice to use it.  jesus
Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.
Reply

#72
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2019, 01:40 PM by leopold332002.)

(02-14-2019, 01:16 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 10:25 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: In 2017, it was the defense giving them early leads. How did Blake do against Pitt in the regular season? Then in the playoff Pitt game, Fournette scores a TD, then the defense holds Pitt to a 3 and out and then the pick off Ben to set up a 1 play Fournette 18 yard TD. Then they get an 11 play, 6 run TD drive (Blake throws for 9 yards in the drive) and then Telvin scores to give the Jags a 28-7 lead. He had a really nice throw to Cole in that game but overall, he wasn't super efficient and it was the run game and defense that gave them the lead.

Blake played extremely average in 2017 and that was apparently his breakout season. I mean the guy threw for 21 TDs and still had 13 interceptions. They took the ball out of his hands because he has always been below average and then they give him an extension.

Again, No one is saying Blake was airing it out all year and throwing for 300 plus a game with 2 plus tds.  The only point i was making was, he was told basically NOT to throw and when we had to FORCE HIM to throw he did decent.  I've watched countless QBs in pass first offenses put up Blake numbers or slightly better.  Its just odd to me, and i know im in the minority, that QBs who are starting in the league in pass first offenses with star players are only slightly better than a QB who is restricted from passing.  That just makes me SMH.  

Its not like im saying oh, his 21 tds and 13 picks show he's the next brees.  Im saying he did that with forced throws after the run game was destroyed and thats mostly 3 and longs or come from behind passes due to falling behind early.  you blame blake for not airing it out and then say we didnt want him to throw in the same breathe.  WHATEVER. yall dont get it

My man, you made some good points and you're making an argument against people who already have their mind made up about Blake so it's pointless to even debate it. Those same people think Teddy Bridgewater, Nick Foles, and Tyrod Taylor going to be the savior of the franchise which is laughable to me. However,  Blake  has never been good enough to carry a team but the reality is only five to seven7 quarterbacks in NFL has the ability to do that on a yearly basis.

 People fail to remember even Philip Rivers at one point with 2-14 in 2015 so quarterback in NFL is not been a easy science at all. Has Blake Bortles failed this city as a quarterback the answer is yes but same time, how many quarterbacks in the NFL including the DeShaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes of the world would have succeed with a terrible and not innovator coaching staff, a below average line, bad receiving Corp, and running game throughout his career. He never had a DeAndre Hopkins, Zeke Elliott, or a Travis Kelce type of tight end to help with his development so it's hard at time to blame him for not being a upper-echelon quarterback. 

I hope whoever they pick to be make the next franchise tag quarterback in the draft put the necessary pieces around him so he can succeed and fulfill his potential.
[Image: giphy.gif]
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#73

(02-14-2019, 01:39 PM)leopold332002 Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 01:16 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: Again, No one is saying Blake was airing it out all year and throwing for 300 plus a game with 2 plus tds.  The only point i was making was, he was told basically NOT to throw and when we had to FORCE HIM to throw he did decent.  I've watched countless QBs in pass first offenses put up Blake numbers or slightly better.  Its just odd to me, and i know im in the minority, that QBs who are starting in the league in pass first offenses with star players are only slightly better than a QB who is restricted from passing.  That just makes me SMH.  

Its not like im saying oh, his 21 tds and 13 picks show he's the next brees.  Im saying he did that with forced throws after the run game was destroyed and thats mostly 3 and longs or come from behind passes due to falling behind early.  you blame blake for not airing it out and then say we didnt want him to throw in the same breathe.  WHATEVER. yall dont get it

My man, you made some good points and you're making an argument against people who already have their mind made up about Blake so it's pointless to even debate it. Those same people think Teddy Bridgewater, Nick Foles, and Tyrod Taylor going to be the savior of the franchise which is laughable to me. However,  Blake  has never been good enough to carry a team but the reality is only five to seven7 quarterbacks in NFL has the ability to do that on a yearly basis.

 People fail to remember even Philip Rivers at one point with 2-14 in 2015 so quarterback in NFL is not been a easy science at all. Has Blake Bortles failed this city as a quarterback the answer is yes but same time, how many quarterbacks in the NFL including the DeShaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes of the world would have succeed with a terrible and not innovator coaching staff, a below average line, bad receiving Corp, and running game throughout his career. He never had a DeAndre Hopkins, Zeke Elliott, or a Travis Kelce type of tight end to help with his development so it's hard at time to blame him for not being a upper-echelon quarterback. 

I hope whoever they pick to be make the next franchise tag quarterback in the draft put the necessary pieces around him so he can succeed and fulfill his potential.
Care to find one post that says they're the savior?

Oh and can I please get a list of the QBs in pass first offenses that threw for 3,700 yards, 21 TDS and 13 interceptions. I would love to see them.
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#74

I can't believe this discussion is still going on.

The excuses are ridiculous. Citing stats is just moronic.

Use your [BLEEP] eyes. He just LOOKS bad. He never looks comfortable. Everything looks forced. And I have never seen some of the awful throws he makes made by any other quarterback in the league...period. If you are saying that he has any chance in hell to be a franchise quarterback you are just making excuses or flat-out blind. I supported him for as long as I could, but good God man. Use you eyes. I don't know what you're watching when I see some of these posts.
[Image: IMG-1452.jpg]
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#75

(02-14-2019, 02:09 PM)Rico Wrote: I can't believe this discussion is still going on.

The excuses are ridiculous.  Citing stats is just moronic.

Use your [BLEEP] eyes.  He just LOOKS bad.  He never looks comfortable.  Everything looks forced.  And I have never seen some of the awful throws he makes made by any other quarterback in the league...period.  If you are saying that he has any chance in hell to be a franchise quarterback you are just making excuses or flat-out blind.  I supported him for as long as I could, but good God man.  Use you eyes.  I don't know what you're watching when I see some of these posts.

It has to be some kind of stockholm syndrome thing. Or maybe because Jacksonville hasn't had good Qb in so long people forget what Qbs are supposed to look like.  
Their old takes look worse if they give up on Blake so they'll hang on for dear life in the face of reality.
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#76

Bortles will stick around for a while as an upper tier backup. But he will never be anything more than a backup or bottom of the barrel starting QB in this league.
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#77
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2019, 03:40 PM by JagsFansince1995.)

(02-14-2019, 02:09 PM)Rico Wrote: I can't believe this discussion is still going on.

The excuses are ridiculous.  Citing stats is just moronic.

Use your [BLEEP] eyes.  He just LOOKS bad.  He never looks comfortable.  Everything looks forced.  And I have never seen some of the awful throws he makes made by any other quarterback in the league...period.  If you are saying that he has any chance in hell to be a franchise quarterback you are just making excuses or flat-out blind.  I supported him for as long as I could, but good God man.  Use you eyes.  I don't know what you're watching when I see some of these posts.

I see he looks bad on a team that hasnt done anything to help him and ive seen QBs look just as bad or worse on teams doing everything.  Use your common sense and understand that that makes ZERO SENSE.  I want the team to win just as much as you but blaming the QB for the TEAMS overall failure due to injuries, GM, OC, HC, etc is being blind as you call it.  With this same QB we could've won a ship and yet just because he should be upgraded you ignore the obvious.  Whether he is even worthy of 10 plus years as a starter is not up for debate.  Whether we could win with him or could've won is the problem.  WE COULD HAVE AND CHOSE TO DO NOTHING.  Cool, lets move on but ya'll are just ugh.
Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.
Reply

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#78

(02-14-2019, 03:39 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 02:09 PM)Rico Wrote: I can't believe this discussion is still going on.

The excuses are ridiculous.  Citing stats is just moronic.

Use your [BLEEP] eyes.  He just LOOKS bad.  He never looks comfortable.  Everything looks forced.  And I have never seen some of the awful throws he makes made by any other quarterback in the league...period.  If you are saying that he has any chance in hell to be a franchise quarterback you are just making excuses or flat-out blind.  I supported him for as long as I could, but good God man.  Use you eyes.  I don't know what you're watching when I see some of these posts.

I see he looks bad on a team that hasnt done anything to help him and ive seen QBs look just as bad or worse on teams doing everything.  Use your common sense and understand that that makes ZERO SENSE.  I want the team to win just as much as you but blaming the QB for the TEAMS overall failure due to injuries, GM, OC, HC, etc is being blind as you call it.  With this same QB we could've won a ship and yet just because he should be upgraded you ignore the obvious.  Whether he is even worthy of 10 plus years as a starter is not up for debate.  Whether we could win with him or could've won is the problem.  WE COULD HAVE AND CHOSE TO DO NOTHING.  Cool, lets move on but ya'll are just ugh.

Trent Dilfer won a chip
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#79

(02-14-2019, 03:39 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 02:09 PM)Rico Wrote: I can't believe this discussion is still going on.

I see he looks bad on a team that hasnt done anything to help him

I say he looks bad throwing a football 4 out of 10 times that he throws a [BLEEP] football. 

That's unacceptable. And putting all-pros around him on offense won't make him not be a bad passer. 

Forget the roster - forget the playbook/playcalling. 
 Blake Bortles cannot throw an accurate football pass consistently enough to start in this league.  

/thread
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#80

(02-14-2019, 03:45 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 03:39 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: I see he looks bad on a team that hasnt done anything to help him

I say he looks bad throwing a football 4 out of 10 times that he throws a [BLEEP] football. 

That's unacceptable. And putting all-pros around him on offense won't make him not be a bad passer. 

Forget the roster - forget the playbook/playcalling. 
 Blake Bortles cannot throw an accurate football pass consistently enough to start in this league.  

/thread
Cool.  I think he could've enough to win a ship.  We agree to disagree, but the team seems ready to move on.  Lets see what the future holds
Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.
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