Create Account



The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.
Waste of Tax Payers Dollars

#21

Robert Mueller and his band of angry democrats.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#22
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2019, 12:39 AM by B2hibry.)

(03-04-2019, 10:31 PM)MalabarJag Wrote:
(03-04-2019, 07:13 PM)B2hibry Wrote: Their roles are different and technologies a decade apart. I am very familiar with both and while the F-22 is quite the air superiority fighter, the F-35 is a true quarterback that can serve multiple roles from air-to-air, air-to-ground, close air support, electronic countermeasure, intel gathering, swarm control, battle space management, and integrated targetting with other air assets and ship assets. With such leading edge technologies, you are going to have issues. With that said, the F-35 has flown combat missions and is exceeding expectation in advanced testing, including defeating multiple F-22 and FA-18 superhornets. When its new software is online it will be even more robust. Here is something some may find interesting...

https://taskandpurpose.com/air-force-f35...g-exercise

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-...-red-flag/

The F-22 is a "fifth generation" fighter. Those links only tell of the F-35 defeating fourth generation fighters (presumably F-16s or FA-18s). I would hope that the $1.5 trillion boondoggle jet would be able to defeat a plane developed 50 years ago, although I have my doubts about it beating an F-15 in actual combat (rather than simulation). Unless you have a better link I strongly doubt an F-35 can defeat an F-22 in air to air combat.


The Navy needed a new plane. So did the Marines. But trying to build a plane that fits a "multiple role" use means that you get a plane that isn't best at anything. To me, that's a waste. And the Warthog is still a better anti-tank plane.
A lot of misinformation or misunderstanding here...

F-35 has three models specific to each service that range in cost from $90M to $128M per aircraft. Not trillion. Multi-role today is not a negative and allows for establishing and holding overwhelming battle-space superiority in quick fashion, which is the operational name of the game. 

 Those planes designed 50 years ago are still being built today and many of our aircraft go threw constant upgrades or blocks that share many techs with 5th gen, with some obvious exceptions. And yes an F-35 can kill an F-22. The F-35s advantage is at a distance with stealth, countermeasures and data superiority. Air-to-air is not a true measure of capability in today’s battle-space. This isn’t WWII or Vietnam! And yes, A-10 is better today at close air support (CAS). Anti-tank isn’t really its role today. We don’t yet know the F-35s capability maximums but what it currently offers and the lessons learned are certainly not a waste. The aircraft is a complete unknown to the civilian world and completely underestimated.

Maybe we should have another shutdown to remind folks where the waste is. Right now it rests on Capital Hill!
[Image: Ben-Roethlisberger_Lerentee-McCary-Sack_...ayoffs.jpg]
Reply

#23

no amount of money spent on the military is waste.

freedom is priceless
Reply

#24

(03-05-2019, 01:34 AM)JackCity Wrote: no amount of money spent on the military is waste.

freedom is priceless

God, I hope you're being sarcastic.

Otherwise you need to immediately apply for a job with some defense contractor.

Right after you get a tattoo with the lines you just wrote.
The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.
Reply

#25

(03-05-2019, 01:34 AM)JackCity Wrote: no amount of money spent on the military is waste.

freedom is priceless

(03-05-2019, 01:45 PM)Adam2012 Wrote:
(03-05-2019, 01:34 AM)JackCity Wrote: no amount of money spent on the military is waste.

freedom is priceless

God, I hope you're being sarcastic.

Otherwise you need to immediately apply for a job with some defense contractor.

Right after you get a tattoo with the lines you just wrote.

First reply to JackCity regarding the part in bold.  You would probably be shocked to learn how much is actually wasted.

Second reply to Adam2012:  I happen to work for and have worked for defense contractors for nearly 20 years.  I can tell you first-hand that money is pretty tight, especially for the "sundowner" types of contracts.  Money today is pretty much allocated to the "new shiny toys'.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#26
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2019, 10:00 PM by mikesez.)

(03-05-2019, 07:36 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:
(03-05-2019, 01:34 AM)JackCity Wrote: no amount of money spent on the military is waste.

freedom is priceless

(03-05-2019, 01:45 PM)Adam2012 Wrote: God, I hope you're being sarcastic.

Otherwise you need to immediately apply for a job with some defense contractor.

Right after you get a tattoo with the lines you just wrote.

First reply to JackCity regarding the part in bold.  You would probably be shocked to learn how much is actually wasted.

Second reply to Adam2012:  I happen to work for and have worked for defense contractors for nearly 20 years.  I can tell you first-hand that money is pretty tight, especially for the "sundowner" types of contracts.  Money today is pretty much allocated to the "new shiny toys'.


Just because it looks like money is tight while you're working for them doesn't mean it actually is.  Look at how the share holders are doing. Look at the earnings per share, the buybacks.  People will excuse that kind of thing away as the cost of doing business but it only becomes the cost of doing business if the market expects it. Is there actual effective competition bringing the price down?
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply

#27

(03-04-2019, 01:19 PM)copycat Wrote:
(03-04-2019, 12:36 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: Another reason for legalization.

Certainly illegal drug activity has a direct correlation with cash, but that is not the reason for the increase.  As weed gets legalized state by state the need for cash purchases should be declining.

Even tho weed is legal on many states levels its illegal on a national level. Which, per my admittedly basic understanding, means that any bank account that weed selling businesses start is basically consider money laundering. So it is very difficult to start a bank account for your pot business. So yes, weed still is very much a cash based business.


Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 
Quote:Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.
 
Reply

#28

(03-05-2019, 11:10 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote:
(03-04-2019, 01:19 PM)copycat Wrote: Certainly illegal drug activity has a direct correlation with cash, but that is not the reason for the increase.  As weed gets legalized state by state the need for cash purchases should be declining.

Even tho weed is legal on many states levels its illegal on a national level. Which, per my admittedly basic understanding, means that any bank account that weed selling businesses start is basically consider money laundering. So it is very difficult to start a bank account for your pot business. So yes, weed still is very much a cash based business.

I have no idea concerning that but I can't imagine that legal shops in Colorado not accepting credit cards.  Perhaps someone with more knowledge can enlighten us.

Even so, I'll concede the point if you allow me to restate my point as a larger umbrella and we just say "illegal activity's" require cash.
Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Reply

#29

I read an article last week about the weed dispensaries using Ford Transit vans to move large amounts of cash and weed because they can't use armored cars. Some of the vans have extra armor and bulletproof glass but many weed companies just use standard vans because the loss of a shipment is less than the cost of an armored van.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#30

(03-04-2019, 11:25 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: Robert Mueller and his band of angry democrats.

Why is indicting white collar criminals a waste of taxpayer dollars?  37 to date and counting  !!!
Reply

#31

(03-06-2019, 10:50 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote:
(03-04-2019, 11:25 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: Robert Mueller and his band of angry democrats.

Why is indicting white collar criminals a waste of taxpayer dollars?  37 to date and counting  !!!

Can't this be done without a special council? Its like storming the house of a 66 year old man with 29 FBI agents with AR-15's. Oh, wait...
Reply

#32

(03-06-2019, 10:52 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(03-06-2019, 10:50 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: Why is indicting white collar criminals a waste of taxpayer dollars?  37 to date and counting  !!!

Can't this be done without a special council? Its like storming the house of a 66 year old man with 29 FBI agents with AR-15's. Oh, wait...

This man is freaking dangerous.  He's pretty much the Pablo Escobar of stealing emails.  You're not going to apprehend him without top secret intelligence and brute force.


[Image: 105700901-1548439090495gettyimages-11247...1548439195]
Reply

#33

(03-06-2019, 11:06 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote:
(03-06-2019, 10:52 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: Can't this be done without a special council? Its like storming the house of a 66 year old man with 29 FBI agents with AR-15's. Oh, wait...

This man is freaking dangerous.  He's pretty much the Pablo Escobar of stealing emails.  You're not going to apprehend him without top secret intelligence and brute force.


[Image: 105700901-1548439090495gettyimages-11247...1548439195]
Ha Ha Ha Ha... you guys!!
[Image: Ben-Roethlisberger_Lerentee-McCary-Sack_...ayoffs.jpg]
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#34

(03-04-2019, 06:20 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: As someone that was directly involved with the program I can tell you that's a false allegation.  While I agree with MalibarJag that we way overspent on the F-35 when the F-22 is a much more superior jet (my opinion), the F-35 is actually going onto full production and is being delivered to the military.

The thing about this though is the topic of this thread is "Waste of Tax Payer Dollars".  I think that a much bigger waste than military spending (mandated by The Constitution) is the needless and useless waste of money spent on more "investigations" of "collusion" or now the term is "obstruction".  How much of our tax payer dollars are being spent on this?  Is it Congress's job to "investigate" or is their job to legislate and create laws?

Cost of a single F-35 that loses to a Sopwith Camel because the pilot blows chunks all over his face during a dogfight: $89 million (https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/09/...-new-deal/)
Total cost of the Mueller investigation as of December 2018: $25 million (http://fortune.com/2018/12/14/mueller-in...ax-cheats/)

Try again, chief.

(03-04-2019, 10:31 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: The Navy needed a new plane. So did the Marines. But trying to build a plane that fits a "multiple role" use means that you get a plane that isn't best at anything. To me, that's a waste. And the Warthog is still a better anti-tank plane.

There's a reason that one of the last causes John McCain pushed in the Senate was to keep the A-10 program alive instead of "replacing" it with a squishy fighter jet that can't handle anywhere near the punishment that a Warthog can. Long live the Hog.

(03-06-2019, 09:09 AM)copycat Wrote: I have no idea concerning that but I can't imagine that legal shops in Colorado not accepting credit cards.  Perhaps someone with more knowledge can enlighten us.

Hi, former Colorado resident and dispensary customer here. Most people pay cash because purchasing marijuana is still a federal crime, and they don't want their card tied to a record at an illegal business. The dispensaries themselves, at least in 2015, not only accepted cards but encouraged their use. They didn't want to have thousands upon thousands of dollars on hand at any given time, making them targets for armed robberies.
Reply

#35

(03-06-2019, 11:52 AM)TJBender Wrote:
(03-04-2019, 06:20 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: As someone that was directly involved with the program I can tell you that's a false allegation.  While I agree with MalibarJag that we way overspent on the F-35 when the F-22 is a much more superior jet (my opinion), the F-35 is actually going onto full production and is being delivered to the military.

The thing about this though is the topic of this thread is "Waste of Tax Payer Dollars".  I think that a much bigger waste than military spending (mandated by The Constitution) is the needless and useless waste of money spent on more "investigations" of "collusion" or now the term is "obstruction".  How much of our tax payer dollars are being spent on this?  Is it Congress's job to "investigate" or is their job to legislate and create laws?

Cost of a single F-35 that loses to a Sopwith Camel because the pilot blows chunks all over his face during a dogfight: $89 million (https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/09/...-new-deal/)
Total cost of the Mueller investigation as of December 2018: $25 million (http://fortune.com/2018/12/14/mueller-in...ax-cheats/)

Try again, chief.

Why are you latching on to an incident like throwing up in a helmet? Do you think it is a rare occurance? Physiological incidents happen daily in every fighter across the spectum. You are crossing the boundaries of normal human tolerances. Look up 9g min turn and you'll see how punishing flight can be. Tax payers would cringe if they knew the number of Class A Mishaps and what they cost annually due to incidents. I would consider these to be opporational costs, not government waste like the numerous probes and highering of outside counsel and whatever other costs involved.
(03-04-2019, 10:31 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: The Navy needed a new plane. So did the Marines. But trying to build a plane that fits a "multiple role" use means that you get a plane that isn't best at anything. To me, that's a waste. And the Warthog is still a better anti-tank plane.

There's a reason that one of the last causes John McCain pushed in the Senate was to keep the A-10 program alive instead of "replacing" it with a squishy fighter jet that can't handle anywhere near the punishment that a Warthog can. Long live the Hog.

That was because there wasn't an operational replacement just yet. The F-35 and F-22 can fill the same role and at greater distance. In fact, the F-22 has been performing outside it's role for the last three years supporting CAS in the middle east.

[Image: Ben-Roethlisberger_Lerentee-McCary-Sack_...ayoffs.jpg]
Reply

#36

(03-06-2019, 11:52 AM)TJBender Wrote: Cost of a single F-35 that loses to a Sopwith Camel because the pilot blows chunks all over his face during a dogfight: $89 million (https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/09/...-new-deal/)
Total cost of the Mueller investigation as of December 2018: $25 million (http://fortune.com/2018/12/14/mueller-in...ax-cheats/)

Try again, chief.

I don't know where you get the idea that pilots are getting sick in F-35's but it's false.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Reply

#37

One that I also feel is sideways is "Earned Income Credit" ... I used to do the taxes for friends, and family. One of my Nieces would get back thousands more than she paid in. She was a pretty poor single mother of two. I can understand someone being so poor they pay zero federal taxes, but she would get $2,000 or even $3,000+ more back than she paid in. On top of getting other government assistance. There are probably millions of people getting more money back than they paid into the tax system. In some cases, it does pay to be poor.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#38

(03-06-2019, 03:05 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:
(03-06-2019, 11:52 AM)TJBender Wrote: Cost of a single F-35 that loses to a Sopwith Camel because the pilot blows chunks all over his face during a dogfight: $89 million (https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/09/...-new-deal/)
Total cost of the Mueller investigation as of December 2018: $25 million (http://fortune.com/2018/12/14/mueller-in...ax-cheats/)

Try again, chief.

I don't know where you get the idea that pilots are getting sick in F-35's but it's false.

The helmet is designed to serve as a viewscreen that lets pilots see above, below and behind them as if the aircraft body weren't even there. Good idea in theory, but when there's input lag that causes the helmet cam to be out of sync with the pilot's movements, the viewscreen turns a lovely greenish hue.
Reply

#39

(03-06-2019, 04:25 PM)Sammy Wrote: One that I also feel is sideways is "Earned Income Credit" ... I used to do the taxes for friends, and family. One of my Nieces would get back thousands more than she paid in. She was a pretty poor single mother of two.  I can understand someone being so poor they pay zero federal taxes, but she would get $2,000 or even $3,000+ more back than she paid in. On top of getting other government assistance. There are probably millions of people getting more money back than they paid into the tax system. In some cases, it does pay to be poor.

I agree with you here.  I've seen for myself people getting a "refund" larger than the amount of tax withheld.  Where does that money come from?  Those of us that actually pay taxes.  I am by no means "rich" or one of the "1%" by any means, but I find my tax bill getting larger each year.  Part of that is the fact that I earn more each year thanks to wage increases along with the fact that I don't owe any significant debt.  My home has been paid off for a few years so I can't deduct anything on it.

On a side note, I don't understand how people "depend" on a "tax refund" for them to be able to make a purchase or to live by.  I've never had a "refund" in over 20 years.  Usually I have to write a check to Uncle Sam (and I do a paper check every year and send it through the postal system).

After glancing at this year's tax tables my check should be for a significantly smaller amount.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Reply

#40

(03-06-2019, 04:25 PM)Sammy Wrote: One that I also feel is sideways is "Earned Income Credit" ... I used to do the taxes for friends, and family. One of my Nieces would get back thousands more than she paid in. She was a pretty poor single mother of two.  I can understand someone being so poor they pay zero federal taxes, but she would get $2,000 or even $3,000+ more back than she paid in. On top of getting other government assistance. There are probably millions of people getting more money back than they paid into the tax system. In some cases, it does pay to be poor.

Everyone not on that side of the tax system nor in Washington knows our tax system is (BLEEP).  The idea of getting back more than you paid is ludicrous yet the beat goes on because it equals votes for a certain party.
Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Reply




Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.


ABOUT US
The Jungle Forums is the Jaguars' biggest fan message board. Talking about the Jags since 2006, the Jungle was the team-endorsed home of all things Jaguars.

Since 2017, the Jungle is now independent of the team but still run by the same crew. We are here to support and discuss all things Jaguars and all things Duval!