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#41

The thing people forget is at the time he was given an extension, Bortles seemed to be developing into what the team needed.  In hindsight, yes it wasn't a good move but at the time it seemed reasonable.  Nobody including me saw Bortles decline the way that he did this past season.  Was it all him?  No, but his play certainly dropped off from his 2017 season.  It's just one piece of the puzzle.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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#42

(03-14-2019, 03:16 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Caldwell and Coughlin defending the move to extend Bortles just shows how clueless they are. Any honest human being would say, "in hindsight, it probably wasn't a good move, but we've learned from it. It's time to move into the future now and put the past behind us."

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#43

(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:19 PM)FBT Wrote: Actions speak louder than words.  Coughlin simply said that it was the right decision at the time to extend Bortles coming off a deep playoff run in which he actually contributed to the success.  Neither of them is clueless.  If they were, Bortles would be out in California working on his mechanics...again, preparing to start another season with the Jaguars.  The fact that he's now a free agent is a pretty clear indication, they have a clue what they're doing.

Yes, they are. Many of us on this board, maybe even the majority of us were against the extension, because it didn't make sense to extend a guy who showed major consistency issues his entire career. Just because they release him now, when everyone in the world now agrees he's not the future of the team, doesn't make them any less clueless. I would say half of this board would've made better decisions regarding this issue and we wouldn't have been so close to the cap, like we are now.

(03-14-2019, 03:19 PM)jagshype Wrote: You really expect them to say my bad
They said they didnt have any regrets


Taking that 16.5 hit is them saying my bad

I expect them to either say nothing, dance around the issue or say they made a mistake. Saying they didn't regret it, makes them sound either disingenuous or stupid.

(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)rollerjag Wrote: Just because they may have been dishonest doesn't mean they are clueless.

By being dishonest, they apparently don't realize how clueless they sound.

Probably because they don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about appearing clueless. Clueless would describe someone thinking Tom Coughlin doesn't realize his mistake.
If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley

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#44

QB is the most important and high profile position in sports. Blake May have sucked but took his criticism like a man. Did everything or tried to do everything asked of him. Here, you’re signing the biggest QB on the market and everyone is giddy about it. Zero sense at all throwing Blake under the bus. Plus had they, it would have showed zero class.
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#45

(03-14-2019, 01:37 PM)knarnn Wrote: https://twitter.com/brentasjax/status/11...23906?s=21

https://twitter.com/danielrpopper/status...37697?s=21
https://twitter.com/zach_goodall/status/...54912?s=21

I wonder what "deals" they are working on?  New players? Restructures?  Bringing back our own FAs?

“Motivation alone is not enough.  If you have an idiot and you motivate him,now you have a motivated idiot.” Jim Rohn

 
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#46

(03-14-2019, 03:57 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: The thing people forget is at the time he was given an extension, Bortles seemed to be developing into what the team needed.  In hindsight, yes it wasn't a good move but at the time it seemed reasonable.  Nobody including me saw Bortles decline the way that he did this past season.  Was it all him?  No, but his play certainly dropped off from his 2017 season.  It's just one piece of the puzzle.

This. I have been saying that at the time most people didn't seem to have a problem with it. Now *everyone* is claiming they thought it was a bad idea when it happened. To be fair, a few people did complain but they were the minority. Most people were for it or at least weren't taking it negatively. December and playoffs of 2017 he was playing lights out (I know the Buffalo game was an exception but that's what it seemed like...an exception).
I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
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#47

(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:19 PM)FBT Wrote: Actions speak louder than words.  Coughlin simply said that it was the right decision at the time to extend Bortles coming off a deep playoff run in which he actually contributed to the success.  Neither of them is clueless.  If they were, Bortles would be out in California working on his mechanics...again, preparing to start another season with the Jaguars.  The fact that he's now a free agent is a pretty clear indication, they have a clue what they're doing.

Yes, they are. Many of us on this board, maybe even the majority of us were against the extension, because it didn't make sense to extend a guy who showed major consistency issues his entire career. Just because they release him now, when everyone in the world now agrees he's not the future of the team, doesn't make them any less clueless. I would say half of this board would've made better decisions regarding this issue and we wouldn't have been so close to the cap, like we are now.

(03-14-2019, 03:19 PM)jagshype Wrote: You really expect them to say my bad
They said they didnt have any regrets


Taking that 16.5 hit is them saying my bad

I expect them to either say nothing, dance around the issue or say they made a mistake. Saying they didn't regret it, makes them sound either disingenuous or stupid.

(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)rollerjag Wrote: Just because they may have been dishonest doesn't mean they are clueless.

By being dishonest, they apparently don't realize how clueless they sound.

No, they don't sound clueless at all, and here's why.

The extension was alwayys a gamble.  They saw the free agent market for QB last year, and recognized that guys like Cousins and Garoppolo were blowing up the market for veteran QBs.  They also looked at the draft and didn't see anyone who would have been available when they selected that was a viable replacement for Bortles.  Could they have just picked up Bortles option last year and waited to extend him?  Sure.  That's the gamble.  They decided they wanted to clear cap space to bolster the line, so they worked out a deal to add a couple of years to his contract.  It allowed them to sign Norwell. Unfortunately, no team can anticpate the kind of injuries we saw on the line, including to their all pro guard, who has never sustained an injury this severe in his career.  

The fact that they released Bortles shows that they recognized their mistake, and they made the decision not to perpetuate it.  

At the time they extended Bortles, Coughlin said that the extension came with high expectations.  The implication was that Blake had made significant strides in 2017, and that they expected that to continue.  If it had, they'd look like geniuses because they had him locked in until 2020 for a fraction of what it would have cost if he had another good season and continued to improve.  The deal he signed put him in the bottom third of starting QBs compensation.  For the front office, it looked like the safe move.  They gambled, and they lost on that one.  It happens to every team.  It has happened to this team before. Look at the David Garrard situation.  Very much the same as this one.  He got them to the playoffs, got a new deal, and shrunk away.  

At the time they extended Blake, it was a surprise, and I wasn't a huge fan.  I understood the mindset because I had been there for the playoff run, and aside from the Buffalo game (which was still a terrific game that Bortles helped us win, BTW), it was a great run for the team, and Blake was a major contributor to that fact. Like most fans, I hoped that we'd continue to see him rise to the challenge.  That didn't happen.  

The front office isn't going to trash Bortles, so expecting them to say "Yup, we regret it" is laughable.  You start trashing players as you're releasing them, and then guess what happens?  Free agents don't want to play here because of the front office.  They handled this as well as could be expected, as did Bortles.

Oddly enough, if you look here, or on social media like Twitter or FB, there was a ton of support to keep the BOAT here for another year.  There is a ton of anger that he was cut, and not given another year to once again redeem himself.  Look for yourself.  The 50 or so regular contributors here aren't necessarily indicative of the larger fanbase's sentiment.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#48

(03-14-2019, 04:39 PM)rollerjag Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Yes, they are. Many of us on this board, maybe even the majority of us were against the extension, because it didn't make sense to extend a guy who showed major consistency issues his entire career. Just because they release him now, when everyone in the world now agrees he's not the future of the team, doesn't make them any less clueless. I would say half of this board would've made better decisions regarding this issue and we wouldn't have been so close to the cap, like we are now.


I expect them to either say nothing, dance around the issue or say they made a mistake. Saying they didn't regret it, makes them sound either disingenuous or stupid.


By being dishonest, they apparently don't realize how clueless they sound.

Probably because they don't give a rat's [BLEEP] about appearing clueless. Clueless would describe someone thinking Tom Coughlin doesn't realize his mistake.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#49

(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:19 PM)FBT Wrote: Actions speak louder than words.  Coughlin simply said that it was the right decision at the time to extend Bortles coming off a deep playoff run in which he actually contributed to the success.  Neither of them is clueless.  If they were, Bortles would be out in California working on his mechanics...again, preparing to start another season with the Jaguars.  The fact that he's now a free agent is a pretty clear indication, they have a clue what they're doing.

Yes, they are. Many of us on this board, maybe even the majority of us were against the extension, because it didn't make sense to extend a guy who showed major consistency issues his entire career. Just because they release him now, when everyone in the world now agrees he's not the future of the team, doesn't make them any less clueless. I would say half of this board would've made better decisions regarding this issue and we wouldn't have been so close to the cap, like we are now.

(03-14-2019, 03:19 PM)jagshype Wrote: You really expect them to say my bad
They said they didnt have any regrets


Taking that 16.5 hit is them saying my bad

I expect them to either say nothing, dance around the issue or say they made a mistake. Saying they didn't regret it, makes them sound either disingenuous or stupid.

(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)rollerjag Wrote: Just because they may have been dishonest doesn't mean they are clueless.

By being dishonest, they apparently don't realize how clueless they sound.

Well, I didn’t like going back to find it but I did: 

You’re saying that half the board warned of this but you yourself said you were fine with the extension. Of course now that you have the benefit of hindsight you change your tune. I quote:


At least it's only 2 years. That's not long term, so it shouldn't effect us from drafting a QB at all. I honestly didn't think he'd accept a short term deal. I was afraid it was gonna be something like a 5-6 year deal. I'm fine with this.”

Original post can be found here: 

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=27128

Tell us again, please how you warned us. In fact, there were alot of people in that thread commenting that they approved and it was a good move. 
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#50

(03-14-2019, 06:00 PM)SamusAranX Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Yes, they are. Many of us on this board, maybe even the majority of us were against the extension, because it didn't make sense to extend a guy who showed major consistency issues his entire career. Just because they release him now, when everyone in the world now agrees he's not the future of the team, doesn't make them any less clueless. I would say half of this board would've made better decisions regarding this issue and we wouldn't have been so close to the cap, like we are now.


I expect them to either say nothing, dance around the issue or say they made a mistake. Saying they didn't regret it, makes them sound either disingenuous or stupid.


By being dishonest, they apparently don't realize how clueless they sound.

Well, I didn’t like going back to find it but I did: 

You’re saying that half the board warned of this but you yourself said you were fine with the extension. Of course now that you have the benefit of hindsight you change your tune. I quote:


At least it's only 2 years. That's not long term, so it shouldn't effect us from drafting a QB at all. I honestly didn't think he'd accept a short term deal. I was afraid it was gonna be something like a 5-6 year deal. I'm fine with this.”

Original post can be found here: 

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=27128

Tell us again, please how you warned us. In fact, there were alot of people in that thread commenting that they approved and it was a good move. 

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#51

(03-14-2019, 06:00 PM)SamusAranX Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Yes, they are. Many of us on this board, maybe even the majority of us were against the extension, because it didn't make sense to extend a guy who showed major consistency issues his entire career. Just because they release him now, when everyone in the world now agrees he's not the future of the team, doesn't make them any less clueless. I would say half of this board would've made better decisions regarding this issue and we wouldn't have been so close to the cap, like we are now.


I expect them to either say nothing, dance around the issue or say they made a mistake. Saying they didn't regret it, makes them sound either disingenuous or stupid.


By being dishonest, they apparently don't realize how clueless they sound.

Well, I didn’t like going back to find it but I did: 

You’re saying that half the board warned of this but you yourself said you were fine with the extension. Of course now that you have the benefit of hindsight you change your tune. I quote:


At least it's only 2 years. That's not long term, so it shouldn't effect us from drafting a QB at all. I honestly didn't think he'd accept a short term deal. I was afraid it was gonna be something like a 5-6 year deal. I'm fine with this.”

Original post can be found here: 

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=27128

Tell us again, please how you warned us. In fact, there were alot of people in that thread commenting that they approved and it was a good move. 

Well played.
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#52

(03-14-2019, 06:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 06:00 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: Well, I didn’t like going back to find it but I did: 

You’re saying that half the board warned of this but you yourself said you were fine with the extension. Of course now that you have the benefit of hindsight you change your tune. I quote:


At least it's only 2 years. That's not long term, so it shouldn't effect us from drafting a QB at all. I honestly didn't think he'd accept a short term deal. I was afraid it was gonna be something like a 5-6 year deal. I'm fine with this.”

Original post can be found here: 

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=27128

Tell us again, please how you warned us. In fact, there were alot of people in that thread commenting that they approved and it was a good move. 

Well played.

Hey, I was one of those who had optimism that Blake had finally turned the corner and putting myself in their shoes, I could see why it would be easy to bet the farm on him as a GM. Hindsight is 20/20
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#53

(03-14-2019, 06:11 PM)SamusAranX Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 06:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Well played.

Hey, I was one of those who had optimism that Blake had finally turned the corner and putting myself in their shoes, I could see why it would be easy to bet the farm on him as a GM. Hindsight is 20/20

As was I.
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#54

We were all optimistic last year....and even up until the wheels started falling off in early 2018.
But it doesn't matter now all you arm chair GMs.
So relax......enjoy the upcoming season...it will def be different.
"Stay tight, stay close. Great things are going to continue to happen for this football team."  - Doug Peterson
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#55

(03-14-2019, 12:30 PM)knarnn Wrote: Including Coughlin and Caldwell set to start at 1pm. Post all updates here. I’m looking forward to seeing if the local media will ask some tough questions about our recent roster moves.

I have to admit it would be amusing to ask Tom and Dave how they felt about eating $16 million in cap for the Bortles debacle.
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#56

(03-14-2019, 06:42 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 12:30 PM)knarnn Wrote: Including Coughlin and Caldwell set to start at 1pm. Post all updates here. I’m looking forward to seeing if the local media will ask some tough questions about our recent roster moves.

I have to admit it would be amusing to ask Tom and Dave how they felt about eating $16 million in cap for the Bortles debacle.

It would have been funnier to ask him why he didn't trade for OBJ.
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#58
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2019, 07:52 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(03-14-2019, 03:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: By being dishonest, they apparently don't realize how clueless they sound.

Dude, seriously...

Saying Blake earned the extension with the postseason performance was the classy way to handle it. No need to throw shade at the guy you just fired a few hours ago. 

You know damn well they wish they hadn't extended him know.

I would gladly get fired and have people talk crap about me for months, if I was making the money Bortles was. It wouldn't bother me one bit. I'd laugh all the way to the bank.

(03-14-2019, 03:57 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: The thing people forget is at the time he was given an extension, Bortles seemed to be developing into what the team needed.  In hindsight, yes it wasn't a good move but at the time it seemed reasonable.  Nobody including me saw Bortles decline the way that he did this past season.  Was it all him?  No, but his play certainly dropped off from his 2017 season.  It's just one piece of the puzzle.

If you thought that was the right move at the time, you were in the minority of this board.
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#59

(03-14-2019, 07:51 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Dude, seriously...

Saying Blake earned the extension with the postseason performance was the classy way to handle it. No need to throw shade at the guy you just fired a few hours ago. 

You know damn well they wish they hadn't extended him know.

I would gladly get fired and have people talk crap about me for months, if I was making the money Bortles was. It wouldn't bother me one bit. I'd laugh all the way to the bank.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Caldwell and Coughlin are going to fire the guy one night and spend the next morning laying out the reasons they were wrong to have faith he'd be good enough to win with. 

There's no reason to lay out a litany of Blake's faults and shortcomings. Why should they? To appease you? 

Nah.
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#60
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2019, 08:06 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(03-14-2019, 06:00 PM)SamusAranX Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Yes, they are. Many of us on this board, maybe even the majority of us were against the extension, because it didn't make sense to extend a guy who showed major consistency issues his entire career. Just because they release him now, when everyone in the world now agrees he's not the future of the team, doesn't make them any less clueless. I would say half of this board would've made better decisions regarding this issue and we wouldn't have been so close to the cap, like we are now.


I expect them to either say nothing, dance around the issue or say they made a mistake. Saying they didn't regret it, makes them sound either disingenuous or stupid.


By being dishonest, they apparently don't realize how clueless they sound.

Well, I didn’t like going back to find it but I did: 

You’re saying that half the board warned of this but you yourself said you were fine with the extension. Of course now that you have the benefit of hindsight you change your tune. I quote:


At least it's only 2 years. That's not long term, so it shouldn't effect us from drafting a QB at all. I honestly didn't think he'd accept a short term deal. I was afraid it was gonna be something like a 5-6 year deal. I'm fine with this.”

Original post can be found here: 

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=27128

Tell us again, please how you warned us. In fact, there were alot of people in that thread commenting that they approved and it was a good move. 

No, I wasn't. I hated it, but it was already done, so what could I do? Saying I'm fine with it being only 2 years is A LOT different than saying I approved of extending him period. I wouldn't have extended him at all, but I'll admit, it could have been worse. I really was expecting them to sign him to a longer term deal. I was relieved they didn't and that was expressed in this post. If you read my other posts from back then, (before the extension was made,) you'd see that I wanted him to play out the final year of his option and then make a decision.

(03-14-2019, 07:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 07:51 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: I would gladly get fired and have people talk crap about me for months, if I was making the money Bortles was. It wouldn't bother me one bit. I'd laugh all the way to the bank.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Caldwell and Coughlin are going to fire the guy one night and spend the next morning laying out the reasons they were wrong to have faith he'd be good enough to win with. 

There's no reason to lay out a litany of Blake's faults and shortcomings. Why should they? To appease you? 

Nah.

Then don't say anything. Dance around the question, be vague, but don't say you have no regrets for putting us so close to the cap. Their jobs depend upon them giving this team the best possible talent and keeping us under the cap. That extension was part of the reason we lost Jackson and Gipson. I'm not saying they should go out there and trash Bortles. I'm simply saying don't say you have no regrets.
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