Create Account



The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.
Nick Foles presser

#61

(03-14-2019, 08:02 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 06:00 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [quote='NYC4jags' pid='1200266' dateline='1552607626']

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Caldwell and Coughlin are going to fire the guy one night and spend the next morning laying out the reasons they were wrong to have faith he'd be good enough to win with. 

There's no reason to lay out a litany of Blake's faults and shortcomings. Why should they? To appease you? 

Nah.

Then don't say anything. Dance around the question, be vague, but don't say you have no regrets for putting us so close to the cap. Their jobs depend upon them giving this team the best possible talent and keeping us under the cap. That extension was part of the reason we lost Jackson and Gipson. I'm not saying they should go out there and trash Bortles. I'm simply saying don't say you have no regrets.

LOL

You're being petulant because Tom freakin Coughlin didn't answer a reporter's question the way that would appease your singular frustrations. 

It's a little ridiculous. 

Of course they regret it, but they simply don't have to say that just to make you feel better.
You are letting yourself be bothered by coach-speak.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#62
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2019, 09:48 PM by JackCity.)

most interesting part of the presser was when Foles was asked what needed to be fixed, and he essentially said the locker room i.e Marrone and Tom told him how bad it got last year and that he's the crucial part in fixing it.

Thats not an easy job for Foles or the coaching staff to do this year, not by any means. Not sure what the players think of Marrone after last years disaster but he'll have to be careful to not go overboard on the discipline side of things and still keep them in "wanting to play for him" territory , or get them back to there at least.

Foles on the otherhand has to somehow establish himself as a leader in a locker room with some baggage within since last year (although some of the malcontents have been removed) and try get them close together and playing for the coaching staff. Again, thats a pretty difficult job for a newcomer and requires enormous amounts of social grace.

Hard to evaluate and judge this happening, certainly way harder than judging something like the run game week to week for instance but its an interesting storyline to follow for me at least, and by all reports Foles is a special enough guy to rally the team around him
Reply

#63
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2019, 12:00 AM by Firesky.)

(03-14-2019, 05:36 PM)FBT Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 03:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Yes, they are. Many of us on this board, maybe even the majority of us were against the extension, because it didn't make sense to extend a guy who showed major consistency issues his entire career. Just because they release him now, when everyone in the world now agrees he's not the future of the team, doesn't make them any less clueless. I would say half of this board would've made better decisions regarding this issue and we wouldn't have been so close to the cap, like we are now.


I expect them to either say nothing, dance around the issue or say they made a mistake. Saying they didn't regret it, makes them sound either disingenuous or stupid.


By being dishonest, they apparently don't realize how clueless they sound.

No, they don't sound clueless at all, and here's why.

The extension was alwayys a gamble.  They saw the free agent market for QB last year, and recognized that guys like Cousins and Garoppolo were blowing up the market for veteran QBs.  They also looked at the draft and didn't see anyone who would have been available when they selected that was a viable replacement for Bortles.  Could they have just picked up Bortles option last year and waited to extend him?  Sure.  That's the gamble.  They decided they wanted to clear cap space to bolster the line, so they worked out a deal to add a couple of years to his contract.  It allowed them to sign Norwell. Unfortunately, no team can anticpate the kind of injuries we saw on the line, including to their all pro guard, who has never sustained an injury this severe in his career.  

The fact that they released Bortles shows that they recognized their mistake, and they made the decision not to perpetuate it.  

At the time they extended Bortles, Coughlin said that the extension came with high expectations.  The implication was that Blake had made significant strides in 2017, and that they expected that to continue.  If it had, they'd look like geniuses because they had him locked in until 2020 for a fraction of what it would have cost if he had another good season and continued to improve.  The deal he signed put him in the bottom third of starting QBs compensation.  For the front office, it looked like the safe move.  They gambled, and they lost on that one.  It happens to every team.  It has happened to this team before. Look at the David Garrard situation.  Very much the same as this one.  He got them to the playoffs, got a new deal, and shrunk away.  

At the time they extended Blake, it was a surprise, and I wasn't a huge fan.  I understood the mindset because I had been there for the playoff run, and aside from the Buffalo game (which was still a terrific game that Bortles helped us win, BTW), it was a great run for the team, and Blake was a major contributor to that fact. Like most fans, I hoped that we'd continue to see him rise to the challenge.  That didn't happen.  

The front office isn't going to trash Bortles, so expecting them to say "Yup, we regret it" is laughable.  You start trashing players as you're releasing them, and then guess what happens?  Free agents don't want to play here because of the front office.  They handled this as well as could be expected, as did Bortles.

Oddly enough, if you look here, or on social media like Twitter or FB, there was a ton of support to keep the BOAT here for another year.  There is a ton of anger that he was cut, and not given another year to once again redeem himself.  Look for yourself.  The 50 or so regular contributors here aren't necessarily indicative of the larger fanbase's sentiment.

That point about David Garrard is soooo offbase. "shrunk away?" after 2007, he went on to have a probowl season for us, and his final year here set a career high in TD's and completion %. Despite having no weapons besides MJD. We were still a .500 team for Garrards final years. They moved on from him wayyy too quickly, and frankly it was what sparked the dark age that was this past decade sans the 2017 season. Aside from 2017, the Jaguars have not had more than 5 wins in any season since David Garrard departed. Even MJD couldn't carry us to more W's, and in one of his 3 post Garrard years he won a rushing title... QB play matters. David Garrard was a fantastic QB for this franchise, please don't insinuate that extending him was a mistake. Garrard doesn't get enough credit from our fanbase.
Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Reply

#64

(03-14-2019, 11:59 PM)Firesky Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 05:36 PM)FBT Wrote: No, they don't sound clueless at all, and here's why.

The extension was alwayys a gamble.  They saw the free agent market for QB last year, and recognized that guys like Cousins and Garoppolo were blowing up the market for veteran QBs.  They also looked at the draft and didn't see anyone who would have been available when they selected that was a viable replacement for Bortles.  Could they have just picked up Bortles option last year and waited to extend him?  Sure.  That's the gamble.  They decided they wanted to clear cap space to bolster the line, so they worked out a deal to add a couple of years to his contract.  It allowed them to sign Norwell. Unfortunately, no team can anticpate the kind of injuries we saw on the line, including to their all pro guard, who has never sustained an injury this severe in his career.  

The fact that they released Bortles shows that they recognized their mistake, and they made the decision not to perpetuate it.  

At the time they extended Bortles, Coughlin said that the extension came with high expectations.  The implication was that Blake had made significant strides in 2017, and that they expected that to continue.  If it had, they'd look like geniuses because they had him locked in until 2020 for a fraction of what it would have cost if he had another good season and continued to improve.  The deal he signed put him in the bottom third of starting QBs compensation.  For the front office, it looked like the safe move.  They gambled, and they lost on that one.  It happens to every team.  It has happened to this team before. Look at the David Garrard situation.  Very much the same as this one.  He got them to the playoffs, got a new deal, and shrunk away.  

At the time they extended Blake, it was a surprise, and I wasn't a huge fan.  I understood the mindset because I had been there for the playoff run, and aside from the Buffalo game (which was still a terrific game that Bortles helped us win, BTW), it was a great run for the team, and Blake was a major contributor to that fact. Like most fans, I hoped that we'd continue to see him rise to the challenge.  That didn't happen.  

The front office isn't going to trash Bortles, so expecting them to say "Yup, we regret it" is laughable.  You start trashing players as you're releasing them, and then guess what happens?  Free agents don't want to play here because of the front office.  They handled this as well as could be expected, as did Bortles.

Oddly enough, if you look here, or on social media like Twitter or FB, there was a ton of support to keep the BOAT here for another year.  There is a ton of anger that he was cut, and not given another year to once again redeem himself.  Look for yourself.  The 50 or so regular contributors here aren't necessarily indicative of the larger fanbase's sentiment.

That point about David Garrard is soooo offbase. "shrunk away?" after 2007, he went on to have a probowl season for us, and his final year here set a career high in TD's and completion %. Despite having no weapons besides MJD. We were still a .500 team for Garrards final years. They moved on from him wayyy too quickly, and frankly it was what sparked the dark age that was this past decade sans the 2017 season. Aside from 2017, the Jaguars have not had more than 5 wins in any season since David Garrard departed. Even MJD couldn't carry us to more W's, and in one of his 3 post Garrard years he won a rushing title... QB play matters. David Garrard was a fantastic QB for this franchise, please don't insinuate that extending him was a mistake. Garrard doesn't get enough credit from our fanbase.

Let's talk about revisionist history, shall we?

After 2007, he racked up 38 interceptions over 3 seasons after being incredibly efficient as a game manager up to that point.  The year he was in the Pro Bowl?  He threw 15 TDs vs. 10 INTs.  The ONLY reason he made the Pro Bowl that year is because the league moved it to the weekend before the Super Bowl, and he was something like the 7th or 8th alternate in the AFC.  Garrard was the 19th rated passer in the league that year.

The move couldn't have happened soon enough.  He was at best a career backup who lucked into a starting role and a nice post season run.  He parlayed that into a big contract extension that never should have happened.  As far as the career high for TDs, 23 is average for most QBs.  He cracked 20 TDs only once in his entire career, and averaged less than 200 yards per game in his final season here.  There's a reason he was sent packing.

Fantastic QB is something a Garrinder would say.  He was average at best.  Extending him was a mistake, and one that the front office at the time refused to admit to for 3 years.  It never should have happened, but like with Bortles, the front office was so excited to return to the post season that they couldn't wait to extend him.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
[Image: attachment.php?aid=59]
Reply

#65
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2019, 10:15 PM by Jaguarmeister.)

(03-14-2019, 11:59 PM)Firesky Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 05:36 PM)FBT Wrote: No, they don't sound clueless at all, and here's why.

The extension was alwayys a gamble.  They saw the free agent market for QB last year, and recognized that guys like Cousins and Garoppolo were blowing up the market for veteran QBs.  They also looked at the draft and didn't see anyone who would have been available when they selected that was a viable replacement for Bortles.  Could they have just picked up Bortles option last year and waited to extend him?  Sure.  That's the gamble.  They decided they wanted to clear cap space to bolster the line, so they worked out a deal to add a couple of years to his contract.  It allowed them to sign Norwell. Unfortunately, no team can anticpate the kind of injuries we saw on the line, including to their all pro guard, who has never sustained an injury this severe in his career.  

The fact that they released Bortles shows that they recognized their mistake, and they made the decision not to perpetuate it.  

At the time they extended Bortles, Coughlin said that the extension came with high expectations.  The implication was that Blake had made significant strides in 2017, and that they expected that to continue.  If it had, they'd look like geniuses because they had him locked in until 2020 for a fraction of what it would have cost if he had another good season and continued to improve.  The deal he signed put him in the bottom third of starting QBs compensation.  For the front office, it looked like the safe move.  They gambled, and they lost on that one.  It happens to every team.  It has happened to this team before. Look at the David Garrard situation.  Very much the same as this one.  He got them to the playoffs, got a new deal, and shrunk away.  

At the time they extended Blake, it was a surprise, and I wasn't a huge fan.  I understood the mindset because I had been there for the playoff run, and aside from the Buffalo game (which was still a terrific game that Bortles helped us win, BTW), it was a great run for the team, and Blake was a major contributor to that fact. Like most fans, I hoped that we'd continue to see him rise to the challenge.  That didn't happen.  

The front office isn't going to trash Bortles, so expecting them to say "Yup, we regret it" is laughable.  You start trashing players as you're releasing them, and then guess what happens?  Free agents don't want to play here because of the front office.  They handled this as well as could be expected, as did Bortles.

Oddly enough, if you look here, or on social media like Twitter or FB, there was a ton of support to keep the BOAT here for another year.  There is a ton of anger that he was cut, and not given another year to once again redeem himself.  Look for yourself.  The 50 or so regular contributors here aren't necessarily indicative of the larger fanbase's sentiment.

That point about David Garrard is soooo offbase. "shrunk away?" after 2007, he went on to have a probowl season for us, and his final year here set a career high in TD's and completion %. Despite having no weapons besides MJD. We were still a .500 team for Garrards final years. They moved on from him wayyy too quickly, and frankly it was what sparked the dark age that was this past decade sans the 2017 season. Aside from 2017, the Jaguars have not had more than 5 wins in any season since David Garrard departed. Even MJD couldn't carry us to more W's, and in one of his 3 post Garrard years he won a rushing title... QB play matters. David Garrard was a fantastic QB for this franchise, please don't insinuate that extending him was a mistake. Garrard doesn't get enough credit from our fanbase.

You have a very interesting interpretation of “way too quickly” considering he never played in a regular season game for the Dolphins or Jets or anyone else after we cut him.  Most would call that perfect timing.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#66

(03-16-2019, 10:14 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 11:59 PM)Firesky Wrote: That point about David Garrard is soooo offbase. "shrunk away?" after 2007, he went on to have a probowl season for us, and his final year here set a career high in TD's and completion %. Despite having no weapons besides MJD. We were still a .500 team for Garrards final years. They moved on from him wayyy too quickly, and frankly it was what sparked the dark age that was this past decade sans the 2017 season. Aside from 2017, the Jaguars have not had more than 5 wins in any season since David Garrard departed. Even MJD couldn't carry us to more W's, and in one of his 3 post Garrard years he won a rushing title... QB play matters. David Garrard was a fantastic QB for this franchise, please don't insinuate that extending him was a mistake. Garrard doesn't get enough credit from our fanbase.

You have a very interesting interpretation of “way too quickly” considering he never played in a regular season game for the Dolphins or Jets or anyone else after we cut him.  Most would call that perfect timing.

He had all but won the starting job in Miami if I recall correctly before a leg injury put him on IR that year. It sounds like he never completely recovered.  Injuries can't be predicted.
I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
Reply

#67

(03-17-2019, 06:40 AM)hb1148 Wrote:
(03-16-2019, 10:14 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: You have a very interesting interpretation of “way too quickly” considering he never played in a regular season game for the Dolphins or Jets or anyone else after we cut him.  Most would call that perfect timing.

He had all but won the starting job in Miami if I recall correctly before a leg injury put him on IR that year. It sounds like he never completely recovered.  Injuries can't be predicted.

Garrard had known back issues prior to being cut and then had surgery on it after we cut him.  He wouldn’t have played much that year if at all.  Almost as if the Jags front office had an idea that would be the case the way it played out.  

The following year he had a season ending injury on his knee during preseason with the Dolphins.  However, the injury occurred at his home when according to him he turned his body to look at his son running in the back yard.  He said at the time he could’ve been turning to look at anything.  It wasn’t some freak football injury.  That knee was likely just ready to blow.

It gets said occasionally around here that we shouldn’t have cut him when we did.  You can argue the manner in which we cut him wasn’t appropriate or classy, but he was physically done with football at that point and cutting him was absolutely the right football move for this team.  It’s revisionist to say otherwise.
Reply

#68

(03-17-2019, 07:32 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote:
(03-17-2019, 06:40 AM)hb1148 Wrote: He had all but won the starting job in Miami if I recall correctly before a leg injury put him on IR that year. It sounds like he never completely recovered.  Injuries can't be predicted.

Garrard had known back issues prior to being cut and then had surgery on it after we cut him.  He wouldn’t have played much that year if at all.  Almost as if the Jags front office had an idea that would be the case the way it played out.  

The following year he had a season ending injury on his knee during preseason with the Dolphins.  However, the injury occurred at his home when according to him he turned his body to look at his son running in the back yard.  He said at the time he could’ve been turning to look at anything.  It wasn’t some freak football injury.  That knee was likely just ready to blow.

It gets said occasionally around here that we shouldn’t have cut him when we did.  You can argue the manner in which we cut him wasn’t appropriate or classy, but he was physically done with football at that point and cutting him was absolutely the right football move for this team.  It’s revisionist to say otherwise.

The majority of players that far into their careers have chronic injuries or issues but he was good enough that the Dolphins were going to make him their starter most likely. Freak injuries can happen anywhere (I recall Leftwich's injury being similar in that regard). DG getting cut was reactionary on the part of Del Rio and a move he no doubt ended up regretting as it ultimately led to him getting fired too. The manner of the cut was classless yeah definitely but that's not why it ultimately was a bad decision.
I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
Reply

#69

Oh good, the Garrard v Byron Wars again.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#70

(03-17-2019, 08:39 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Oh good, the Garrard v Byron Wars again.

Those times were simpler
Reply

#71

(03-15-2019, 01:44 AM)FBT Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 11:59 PM)Firesky Wrote: That point about David Garrard is soooo offbase. "shrunk away?" after 2007, he went on to have a probowl season for us, and his final year here set a career high in TD's and completion %. Despite having no weapons besides MJD. We were still a .500 team for Garrards final years. They moved on from him wayyy too quickly, and frankly it was what sparked the dark age that was this past decade sans the 2017 season. Aside from 2017, the Jaguars have not had more than 5 wins in any season since David Garrard departed. Even MJD couldn't carry us to more W's, and in one of his 3 post Garrard years he won a rushing title... QB play matters. David Garrard was a fantastic QB for this franchise, please don't insinuate that extending him was a mistake. Garrard doesn't get enough credit from our fanbase.

Let's talk about revisionist history, shall we?

After 2007, he racked up 38 interceptions over 3 seasons after being incredibly efficient as a game manager up to that point.  The year he was in the Pro Bowl?  He threw 15 TDs vs. 10 INTs.  The ONLY reason he made the Pro Bowl that year is because the league moved it to the weekend before the Super Bowl, and he was something like the 7th or 8th alternate in the AFC.  Garrard was the 19th rated passer in the league that year.

The move couldn't have happened soon enough.  He was at best a career backup who lucked into a starting role and a nice post season run.  He parlayed that into a big contract extension that never should have happened.  As far as the career high for TDs, 23 is average for most QBs.  He cracked 20 TDs only once in his entire career, and averaged less than 200 yards per game in his final season here.  There's a reason he was sent packing.

Fantastic QB is something a Garrinder would say.  He was average at best.  Extending him was a mistake, and one that the front office at the time refused to admit to for 3 years.  It never should have happened, but like with Bortles, the front office was so excited to return to the post season that they couldn't wait to extend him.

Garrard was winning games for us, he was never going to post the ridiculous 18:3 td:int ratio, just like foles was never going to go 27:2 again. Garrard had practically no weapons in the passing game, and we had piss poor defenses post 2007, yet the man kept us competitive and got us to around .500. Hes the 2nd qb this franchise has ever had, no one said hes a hall of famer but he was above average.
Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Reply

#72
Rainbow 

(03-17-2019, 08:39 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Oh good, the Garrard v Byron Wars again.

[Image: wtf_blazing_saddles.gif]
Reply




Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.


ABOUT US
The Jungle Forums is the Jaguars' biggest fan message board. Talking about the Jags since 2006, the Jungle was the team-endorsed home of all things Jaguars.

Since 2017, the Jungle is now independent of the team but still run by the same crew. We are here to support and discuss all things Jaguars and all things Duval!