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So, the game has passed Coughlin by?

#21

(03-18-2019, 09:10 AM)B2hibry Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 08:59 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: This thread will be up to 3 pages by tomorrow.

I think you underestimate the power of a useless post in this place. I’ll say at least 6 pages if it survives.

Just six, i mean he basically said that it wasnt Bortles fault we sucked last year. That has to be good for at least 10 pages 91% of the time. ?


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#22
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2019, 04:57 PM by Steelers Beaches.)

(03-18-2019, 08:57 AM)B2hibry Wrote: I wanted to come in here and just say this thread was dumb but I’ll offer up this...
You ask the question in your title but post remarks that contradict. It appears you didn’t put a lot of time into this internal debate. Assuming he “controls” all operations,  maybe come back and explain how football or his brand has passed.

It was a reverberation of what others have been expressing. And then I addressed the assertion. Sorry if that's too much for you to grasp.

(03-17-2019, 05:08 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [Image: bucket.jpg]
Are you able to read and comprehend English? It's pretty obvious if you are capable of such.

#23

(03-18-2019, 01:01 PM)Jagsfan4life9/28/82 Wrote: Perhaps this thread is just a part of the ongoing beef the OP has with NYC. NYC posted something to the effect of the league moving past Coughlin in the "Looking Back" thread.

Kudos. NYC was ONE of those who expressed TC was no longer relevant and/or competent. Others have expressed similar opinions, whether in here, on other boards, at the gym or on the street. I have heard such assertions a myriad of times. This addresses those claims. What's so hard to grasp about that?

#24

(03-18-2019, 03:49 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 01:01 PM)Jagsfan4life9/28/82 Wrote: Perhaps this thread is just a part of the ongoing beef the OP has with NYC. NYC posted something to the effect of the league moving past Coughlin in the "Looking Back" thread.

NYC was ONE of those who expressed TC was no longer relevant and/or competent
...
What?? 
That's not at all what I posted.

#25
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2019, 04:52 PM by Steelers Beaches.)

(03-18-2019, 01:22 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 01:01 PM)Jagsfan4life9/28/82 Wrote: Perhaps this thread is just a part of the ongoing beef the OP has with NYC. NYC posted something to the effect of the league moving past Coughlin in the "Looking Back" thread.
Regardless of the OP motives/intentions (I'll not insert my opinion) I'll attempt to be clear on my Coughlin stance.

I thought him being fired in Jax back in the day was NOT a mistake. He was trying to run a dictatorship and wearing too many hats. Not wearing some of them effectively. 

I feel he learned from those mistakes and became a better coach with the Giants. I think being reined in was necessary for him at the time and he benefited from it.  Change was necessary.

Of course I wish they'd been able to rein him in here and bring those titles to Jax, but it is what it is. 

IN THE HERE AND NOW:

I didn't say the league has moved past him as the OP here suggests but I stated it is moving past him. I do believe some (not all) of his tendencies and philosophies are going to be antiquated sooner than later. The league wants what it wants and you'd be unwise as an EVP of football ops to ignore it. I love staunch defense and ground and pound more than most do, but the modern team must do what it takes to remain competitive in a fluid environment. 

Thus far I've been mostly unimpressed with his work in the F.O. 
I hope that this offseason additions and changes really do impart a sustainable culture change and we see a disciplined team with a functional offense in 2019. That would brighten my outlook on TC's football czar role and his performance in it greatly. Pre-draft - I like where this offseason seems headed.

Well, he is one of two coaches/teams to ever play in a conference championship in the 2nd year of existence. I will have to check, but I am pretty sure those are extraordinary results. Like, never before witnessed in the NFL. 

He followed up year 2 of making it to the AFCC game with two 11-5 seasons, followed by a 14-2 campaign, where they once again made it to the AFCC game. In 1999 they were clearly one of the best teams in the NFL with only one team beating them the entire season (unfortunately that one team, TN, ending their season). 

So, if TC's ways were so counterproductive, it sure didn't show in the results, other than no rings, but that is hardly an a indictment. (The Steelers had a 25-year drought, from 1980 until 2005 in between rings and even the greatest QB and coach of all time - Brady and Hoodie - had a 10-year drought of SB wins - 2004 until 2014.) 

So, then after 1999, he did have 3 losing seasons. Now, it _could_ have been the team burning out on the TC intensity and strictness...or it could have been the aging of the team and simply becoming less talented. 

Regardless, they kicked TC to the curb only to see him win TWO rings in NY. And contrary to some, it's not like TC made massive changes to his way of doing things in NY. Sure, he opened and warmed up a little, but no wholesale changes were made; you still got fined if you weren't 5 minutes early to meetings and all that. 

And, I am a little confused. You say you like where this off-season is heading, but you expressed earlier you weren't even onboard with TC being head bozo in charge. I think those two assertions are mutually exclusive. TC is clearly calling all the shots, so how can you disapprove of him, yet feel the direction of the team is encouraging? Those two things cannot co-exist.

(03-17-2019, 05:32 PM)lastonealive Wrote: In 2017 we stayed relatively healthy (except receiver)

In 2018 we lost our oline to injury.

Can blame whatever you like but it's pretty clear to me that

1. Offensive line is important
2. Poor offensive line play makes everyone look worse on offense

I saw plenty of plays where Bortles had time and still couldn't complete a 7 yard pass. Yes, a lot of plays, rushers got in quick. But that doesn't explain ALL the terrible QB play.

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#26

(03-18-2019, 04:48 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 01:22 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Regardless of the OP motives/intentions (I'll not insert my opinion) I'll attempt to be clear on my Coughlin stance.

I thought him being fired in Jax back in the day was NOT a mistake. He was trying to run a dictatorship and wearing too many hats. Not wearing some of them effectively. 

I feel he learned from those mistakes and became a better coach with the Giants. I think being reined in was necessary for him at the time and he benefited from it.  Change was necessary.

Of course I wish they'd been able to rein him in here and bring those titles to Jax, but it is what it is. 

IN THE HERE AND NOW:

I didn't say the league has moved past him as the OP here suggests but I stated it is moving past him. I do believe some (not all) of his tendencies and philosophies are going to be antiquated sooner than later. The league wants what it wants and you'd be unwise as an EVP of football ops to ignore it. I love staunch defense and ground and pound more than most do, but the modern team must do what it takes to remain competitive in a fluid environment. 

Thus far I've been mostly unimpressed with his work in the F.O. 
I hope that this offseason additions and changes really do impart a sustainable culture change and we see a disciplined team with a functional offense in 2019. That would brighten my outlook on TC's football czar role and his performance in it greatly. Pre-draft - I like where this offseason seems headed.

Well, he is one of two coaches/teams to ever play in a conference championship in the 2nd year of existence. I will have to check, but I am pretty sure those are extraordinary results. Like, never before witnessed in the NFL. 

He followed up year 2 of making it to the AFCC game with two 11-5 seasons, followed by a 14-2 campaign, where they once again made it to the AFCC game. In 1999 they were clearly one of the best teams in the NFL with only one team beating them the entire season (unfortunately that one team, TN, ending their season). 

So, if TC's ways were so counterproductive, it sure didn't show in the results, other than no rings, but that is hardly an a indictment. (The Steelers had a 25-year drought, from 1980 until 2005 in between rings and even the greatest QB and coach of all time - Brady and Hoodie - had a 10-year drought of SB wins - 2004 until 2014.) 

So, then after 1999, he did have 3 losing seasons. Now, it _could_ have been the team burning out on the TC intensity and strictness...or it could have been the aging of the team and simply becoming less talented. 

Regardless, they kicked TC to the curb only to see him win TWO rings in NY. And contrary to some, it's not like TC made massive changes to his way of doing things in NY. Sure, he opened and warmed up a little, but no wholesale changes were made; you still got fined if you weren't 5 minutes early to meetings and all that. 

And, I am a little confused. You say you like where this off-season is heading, but you expressed earlier you weren't even onboard with TC being head bozo in charge. I think those two assertions are mutually exclusive. TC is clearly calling all the shots, so how can you disapprove of him, yet feel the direction of the team is encouraging? Those two things cannot co-exist.

No. 

You are extraordinarily confused. I'm not sure "more confused" is possible. 

I'm not going to bother explaining. You'll take it to mean something entirely different anyway. 

I will correct you on two things that maybe you won't twist:
Coughlin made major changes after he was fired here. For one, the giants organization didn't allow him to power trip and try to play GM, OC and HC all at once. And he was nearly fired TWICE in NY for being to much of a disciplinarian with his players. He was forced to change and he was better for doing it. Ultimately his willfulness cost him his job there as well.

Thing two:
Things didn't start going all weird for TC here until 2000 when he was Gm, OC and HC and not doing them all very well.

The rest , I'll just let you enjoy the blissful ignorance.

#27
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2019, 05:02 PM by Steelers Beaches.)

(03-18-2019, 03:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 03:49 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote: NYC was ONE of those who expressed TC was no longer relevant and/or competent
...
What?? 
That's not at all what I posted.
Quote:He was trying to run a dictatorship and wearing too many hats. Not wearing some of them effectively. 

(03-18-2019, 04:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 04:48 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote: Well, he is one of two coaches/teams to ever play in a conference championship in the 2nd year of existence. I will have to check, but I am pretty sure those are extraordinary results. Like, never before witnessed in the NFL. 
...

...

I am a little confused...

No. 

You are extraordinarily confused. I'm not sure "more confused" is possible. 

I'm not going to bother explaining. You'll take it to mean something entirely different anyway. 

I will correct you on one thing that maybe you won't twist:
Coughlin made major changes after he was fired here. For one, the giants organization didn't allow him to power trip and try to play GM, OC and HC all at once. And he was nearly fired TWICE in NY for being to much of a disciplinarian with his players. He was forced to change and he was better for doing it. Ultimately his willfulness cost him his job there as well.

The rest , I'll just let you enjoy the blissful ignorance.

Bull crap. All he did was have a little more of an open door policy and chat with players about their family. That's about it. I don't know where you get your info. but you are off by a mile. It didn't go without notice that you are hiding from most of the assertions made, claiming they don't need addressed. If they were so easy to refute, you would do so, but you do not. Kind of like running away while claiming victory. I'm not buying it.

#28

(03-18-2019, 04:58 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 03:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: What?? 
That's not at all what I posted.
Quote:He was trying to run a dictatorship and wearing too many hats. Not wearing some of them effectively. 
You just took a statement about Tom Coughlin taking on too many roles in 2000-2002 and twisted it into me saying the man was currently irrelevant and incompetent as EVP of football. 


Congratulations. 

I don't even know what to say to that, it's so [BLEEP] stupid.

#29

(03-18-2019, 04:58 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 03:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: What?? 
That's not at all what I posted.
Quote:He was trying to run a dictatorship and wearing too many hats. Not wearing some of them effectively. 

(03-18-2019, 04:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: I will correct you on one thing that maybe you won't twist:
Coughlin made major changes after he was fired here. For one, the giants organization didn't allow him to power trip and try to play GM, OC and HC all at once. And he was nearly fired TWICE in NY for being to much of a disciplinarian with his players. He was forced to change and he was better for doing it. Ultimately his willfulness cost him his job there as well.

Bull crap. All he did was have a little more of an open door policy and chat with players about their family...

LOL

I lived in NYC and read it in the Daily News every day, pal. 

The man was under heat to dial it back or lose his job in two separate seasons. And - as I've already explained (not that it matters with you) he was not allowed to be GM/HC/OC in NY because that's one major reason he was fired here. He was a control freak. That's a pretty giant freakin difference in how he was allowed to run things between Jax and NYG. 

He was at his best when he had good coaches around him and he played his role as HC only. He stopped doing that in Jax and it was his undoing. 

I can't believe I'm wasting my time explaining this [BLEEP].

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#30

(03-18-2019, 05:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 04:58 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:

Bull crap. All he did was have a little more of an open door policy and chat with players about their family...

LOL

I lived in NYC and read it in the Daily News every day, pal. 

The man was under heat to dial it back or lose his job in two separate seasons. And - as I've already explained (not that it matters with you) he was not allowed to be GM/HC/OC in NY because that's one major reason he was fired here. He was a control freak. That's a pretty giant freakin difference in how he was allowed to run things between Jax and NYG. 

He was at his best when he had good coaches around him and he played his role as HC only. He stopped doing that in Jax and it was his undoing. 

I can't believe I'm wasting my time explaining this [BLEEP].

You are spot on.  When the team went in to cap hell, it was Coughlin that was responsible for it.  It's not about his coaching or philosophy regarding the game.  It's not about him being a strict disciplinarian.  It was more about him being the sole person in charge.  In NYC he did ONE thing well and that was Head Coach.

My guess is that after the years of experience and learning from his failures is why/how he made it to an executive position.  I don't see him being active or "prominent" regarding the coaching or the drafting.  That would be micro-managing and would put him right back into the same type of role that got him fired from here to begin with.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

#31

(03-18-2019, 06:30 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 05:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: LOL

I lived in NYC and read it in the Daily News every day, pal. 

The man was under heat to dial it back or lose his job in two separate seasons. And - as I've already explained (not that it matters with you) he was not allowed to be GM/HC/OC in NY because that's one major reason he was fired here. He was a control freak. That's a pretty giant freakin difference in how he was allowed to run things between Jax and NYG. 

He was at his best when he had good coaches around him and he played his role as HC only. He stopped doing that in Jax and it was his undoing. 

I can't believe I'm wasting my time explaining this [BLEEP].

You are spot on.  When the team went in to cap hell, it was Coughlin that was responsible for it.  It's not about his coaching or philosophy regarding the game.  It's not about him being a strict disciplinarian.  It was more about him being the sole person in charge.  In NYC he did ONE thing well and that was Head Coach.

My guess is that after the years of experience and learning from his failures is why/how he made it to an executive position.  I don't see him being active or "prominent" regarding the coaching or the drafting.  That would be micro-managing and would put him right back into the same type of role that got him fired from here to begin with.
It got him fired, but under a different regime. I’m not sure how much bearing that has.  And considering he has control over roster, how can he not be in charge or “prominent” in drafting?

But that’s besides the point.  When do we address the obvious troll?

#32

(03-18-2019, 05:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 04:58 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:

Bull crap. All he did was have a little more of an open door policy and chat with players about their family...

LOL

I lived in NYC and read it in the Daily News every day, pal. 

The man was under heat to dial it back or lose his job in two separate seasons. And - as I've already explained (not that it matters with you) he was not allowed to be GM/HC/OC in NY because that's one major reason he was fired here. He was a control freak. That's a pretty giant freakin difference in how he was allowed to run things between Jax and NYG. 

He was at his best when he had good coaches around him and he played his role as HC only. He stopped doing that in Jax and it was his undoing. 

I can't believe I'm wasting my time explaining this [BLEEP].

Exactly right, and if you ask Coughlin, he'd probably agree as well.  That's why he never pushed to control personnel in NY.  He coached what was provided, and won 2 Super Bowls as a result.

The game hasn't passed Coughlin by.  The guy watched film the entire time he was out of football, and stayed in contact with the game through the league post NY until he came back to Jax.  His role here is to oversee football operations, and not to take it over.  The guy knows what is required to build a quality football product, and is destined for Canton when he decides he's done.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
[Image: attachment.php?aid=59]

#33

(03-18-2019, 07:08 PM)Jags Wrote: It got him fired, but under a different regime. I’m not sure how much bearing that has.  And considering he has control over roster, how can he not be in charge or “prominent” in drafting?

But that’s besides the point.  When do we address the obvious troll?

Coughlin does have control over the decisions that impact the roster and coaching staff, but if you haven't really paid attention, he's letting Dave and Doug do their jobs, offering his input where necessary for players and coaches we have brought in.  His role IS prominent in drafting, but it's different this time around from my perspective.  He's not the "one voice" in the stadium.  In fact, you barely hear from him most of the time as Doug and Dave handle most of the press availability.  Coughlin is a grinder, and I'm certain he's doing his part to continue building this roster.  Some folks need to take a breath and recongnize that what we saw in 2017 was awesome, but we had a lot of good luck to thank for that.  The injury bug set the team back big time last year, but I don't expect to see that year in and year out.  They'll rebound this year.  Nobody hates losing like TC.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
[Image: attachment.php?aid=59]

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#34

(03-18-2019, 03:44 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 08:57 AM)B2hibry Wrote: I wanted to come in here and just say this thread was dumb but I’ll offer up this...
You ask the question in your title but post remarks that contradict. It appears you didn’t put a lot of time into this internal debate. Assuming he “controls” all operations,  maybe come back and explain how football or his brand has passed.

It was a reverberation of what others have been expressing. And then I addressed the assertion. Sorry if that's too much for you to grasp.

Seems I grasped it just fine as your ignorance preceded to bury you.
[Image: Ben-Roethlisberger_Lerentee-McCary-Sack_...ayoffs.jpg]

#35

Is this going somewhere?
"Stay tight, stay close. Great things are going to continue to happen for this football team."  - Doug Peterson

#36

(03-19-2019, 09:08 AM)Mowerguy Wrote: Is this going somewhere?

Never got off the ground.

#37
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2019, 02:03 PM by Steelers Beaches.)

(03-18-2019, 03:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 03:49 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote: NYC was ONE of those who expressed TC was no longer relevant and/or competent
...
What?? 
That's not at all what I posted.
Quote:He was trying to run a dictatorship and wearing too many hats. Not wearing some of them effectively. 

I don't want TC as a coach. I barely want him as a GM.

(03-19-2019, 08:48 AM)B2hibry Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 03:44 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote: It was a reverberation of what others have been expressing. And then I addressed the assertion. Sorry if that's too much for you to grasp.

Seems I grasped it just fine as your ignorance preceded to bury you.

Them demonstrate how it manifested. I'll be waiting over here, not holding my breath.

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#38

(03-19-2019, 02:02 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 03:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: What?? 
That's not at all what I posted.
Quote:He was trying to run a dictatorship and wearing too many hats. Not wearing some of them effectively. 

I don't want TC as a coach. I barely want him as a GM.

(03-19-2019, 08:48 AM)B2hibry Wrote: Seems I grasped it just fine as your ignorance preceded to bury you.

Them demonstrate how it manifested. I'll be waiting over here, not holding my breath.

How what manifested? 

(Randomly typing things in bold and falsely attributing them to me isn't going to help your position here, BTW)

#39

(03-19-2019, 02:02 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 03:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: What?? 
That's not at all what I posted.
Quote:He was trying to run a dictatorship and wearing too many hats. Not wearing some of them effectively. 

I don't want TC as a coach. I barely want him as a GM.

(03-19-2019, 08:48 AM)B2hibry Wrote: Seems I grasped it just fine as your ignorance preceded to bury you.

Them demonstrate how it manifested. I'll be waiting over here, not holding my breath.
You would have a much better idea how your ignorance was manifested than any of us...  Maybe you were dropped on your head when you were a baby?  Have you talked to your Mom about this?

#40
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2019, 03:24 PM by RicoTx.)

(03-19-2019, 02:02 PM)Steelers Beaches Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 03:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: What?? 
That's not at all what I posted.
Quote:He was trying to run a dictatorship and wearing too many hats. Not wearing some of them effectively. 

I don't want TC as a coach. I barely want him as a GM.

(03-19-2019, 08:48 AM)B2hibry Wrote: Seems I grasped it just fine as your ignorance preceded to bury you.

Them demonstrate how it manifested. I'll be waiting over here, not holding my breath.

Maybe you should stomp your feet while holding your breath.  It's pretty much the same thing as you whining about posts being moved and you seem really, really, good at that.
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