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It’s Caldwell always has been

#21
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2019, 06:57 PM by I am Yoda.)

(09-08-2019, 03:37 PM)old_man Wrote: Disagree....Roster has talent.  I will leave it there.

Not enough.  Our secondary is suspect.  Our LBs are suspect.  Our OL is suspect.  And it hasn't been fixed yet.  AND we need better coaching, especially in terms of discipline and situational football.

(09-08-2019, 04:57 PM)MalabarJag Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 04:35 PM)EricC85 Wrote: These same problems predate Coughlin the only connection is Caldwell. 

Caldwell broke the roster down to expansion status and spent the last 6 years building a team with no depth, no character, and staffed with a gutless leader running cupcake camps.

Coughlin was put in charge in January 2017. He was the one who made Marrone the permanent head coach after the 2016 season. If you don't like Marrone, blame TC. And the mistake was compounded by also keeping Hackett and Wash.

Caldwell did well drafting Ramsey and Jack (and Ngakoue) in 2016, before TC. Ramsey and Jack were not a problem originally, that developed over time (and coaching). The 2014 draft was also very good with the exception of Bortles. Meanwhile, the draft of Fournette had TC's fingerprints all over it.

I was very critical of Caldwell originally, and I still think he needs to learn how to trade down, but as I watch the drafted players decline in ability over time I have to think that the real problem is failure to develop the picks. Caldwell is not the greatest GM, but he's not the worst either. He's still orders of magnitude better than Gene Smith.

And yet in our own division, Chris Ballard was hired 3 years ago and has rebuilt the Colts.  If the suckage continues this year, it's time to clean house from top to bottom.
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#22

(09-08-2019, 03:27 PM)EricC85 Wrote: head of the snake has to come off its his roster it’s his staff this is his mess. I don’t care about Coughlin stay or go whatever but this dumpster fire I lay at the feet of Caldwell

So what does that mean?

Do you mean to saw that it was Caldwell in 2017 when the team was literally a few minutes away from the Super bowl?

Do you mean that Caldwell specifically acquired the OL and Nick Foles specifically for their propensity to be injured?

Was it Caldwell that created the higher expectations in 2018 and 2019?

I'm not following?  Why is it Caldwell's fault?
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#23
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2019, 07:16 PM by StroudCrowd1.)

(09-08-2019, 07:10 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 03:27 PM)EricC85 Wrote: head of the snake has to come off its his roster it’s his staff this is his mess. I don’t care about Coughlin stay or go whatever but this dumpster fire I lay at the feet of Caldwell

So what does that mean?

Do you mean to saw that it was Caldwell in 2017 when the team was literally a few minutes away from the Super bowl?

Do you mean that Caldwell specifically acquired the OL and Nick Foles specifically for their propensity to be injured?

Was it Caldwell that created the higher expectations in 2018 and 2019?

I'm not following?  Why is it Caldwell's fault?

If you want to point to a single successful season amongst every other season being Godawful to defend Caldwell, that's your right, but Caldwell needs to be fired and a long time ago.

I'm so impressed with Caldwell finding talent drafting in the top 5 the majority of his tenure here. He should be proud.
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#24

(09-08-2019, 06:54 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: And yet in our own division, Chris Ballard was hired 3 years ago and has rebuilt the Colts.  If the suckage continues this year, it's time to clean house from top to bottom.

I don't completely get this, either.

This is Ballard's third year.

In 2017, they were 4-12.

Last year, they made the playoffs after starting 1-5.

So far this year, they have started 0-1, just like us.

What was the difference?  Yes, they had a good draft last year by most accounts.  But the big difference is they they had a healthy enough to be functional Andrew Luck in 2018.

In 2017, they didn't and they finished 4-12.

They don't this year, and thus far they are 0-1, just like the Jaguars.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#25

Caldwell's [BLEEP] was on the line when Coughlin was brought back. They doubled down with Bortles and that failed.

They doubled down with Marrone and that's now failing. We've missed on opportunities to improve the QB position and HC position long before we saw the truth in 2018.

Khan has to create a clean break from Coughlin, Caldwell & Marrone if this season continues to unfold like it did today, which, again it was the Chiefs who kicked our [BLEEP] today. I can accept that.

But the issues have been consistent since the collapse early on from last year. Seeing poor coaching, poor depth, lack of preparedness and a defeatist cult of personality bleeding throughout the few faces of this franchise that we have.

It either turns around with Minshew and this coaching staff keeping the team altogether. Or they sink and must swim elsewhere because this [BLEEP] today? It's completely unacceptable.

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#26

(09-08-2019, 06:11 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: I like Caldwell more than most here but he's at some glaring blunders in his time here for sure.

I want to like Caldwell. I really do. He's not a Gene Smith, and for that, i'm thankful, but how many of his first round picks alone have failed? Any team that has the amount of first round misfires Jacksonville's had is not going to win consistently. But it's not even just that, because for whatever reason, the man DOES make up for it by snagging good to very good talent in the latter rounds. I'll give him that.

But my real issue with Caldwell was bringing Gus Bradley in as a head coach. And then sticking with him when it was clear that he was out of his depth. Hindsight is what it is, but it could've been possible that Bortles COULD have been a better QB if he'd been developed by a real coach with a mind for development. So having Bradley ruined Bortles' initial progress. I think from then on, Bortles had trouble recovering from that. He was lousy outside of garbage time in 2015 and game managership in 2017.

Bradley set this team back for another several years, and honestly, i cannot say I'm supportive of Caldwell being the guy that, SHOULD Marrone get fired later this season, picks a new head coach. I barely trust him with first round picks at this point; Ramsey and Allen both fell into Caldwell's lap because other teams didn't take them. I call that luck. Jokell was a bust, though I won't blame all of that on Caldwell; the Joke was supposed to be pretty good. But Bortles was a [BLEEP] reach and we all know it. I'm not saying there was a better QB to take at the time, but there WAS premium talent at other positions that they could've pursued instead; Khalil Mack was available, for example. I guess I'm grateful he didn't bring in Johnny Manziel, but Bortles is hardly a consolation prize
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#27

(09-08-2019, 07:15 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 07:10 PM)Bullseye Wrote: So what does that mean?

Do you mean to saw that it was Caldwell in 2017 when the team was literally a few minutes away from the Super bowl?

Do you mean that Caldwell specifically acquired the OL and Nick Foles specifically for their propensity to be injured?

Was it Caldwell that created the higher expectations in 2018 and 2019?

I'm not following?  Why is it Caldwell's fault?

If you want to point to a single successful season amongst every other season being Godawful to defend Caldwell, that's your right, but Caldwell needs to be fired and a long time ago.

I'm so impressed with Caldwell finding talent drafting in the top 5 the majority of his tenure here. He should be proud.

Like Myles Jack and Yannick Ngakoue?

Top 5 picks like Telvin Smith and Allen Binson?

Do you realize how talent deprived the team was when he arrived?!?

As for 2018, how do you avoid season ending injuries to your top 3 LTs and 4 of 5 starting OLs?  How is any of that Caldwell's fault?

Is Caldwell flawless?  No.  He hired Bradley, drafted Bortlesand depending how much power he wields in the draft room after TC arrived you could argue he took Fournette instead of Mahomes or Watson, and the Taven Bryan pick.

But the bottom line is, despite the bad result today, the starting 22 coming into this season is much better than it has been dating back to the middle of the Shack Harris era, and as far as getting closer to the Super Bowl, exceeded every other GM after the first TC era.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#28

(09-08-2019, 07:20 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 06:54 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: And yet in our own division, Chris Ballard was hired 3 years ago and has rebuilt the Colts.  If the suckage continues this year, it's time to clean house from top to bottom.

I don't completely get this, either.

This is Ballard's third year.

In 2017, they were 4-12.

Last year, they made the playoffs after starting 1-5.

So far this year, they have started 0-1, just like us.

What was the difference?  Yes, they had a good draft last year by most accounts.  But the big difference is they they had a healthy enough to be functional Andrew Luck in 2018.

In 2017, they didn't and they finished 4-12.

They don't this year, and thus far they are 0-1, just like the Jaguars.


Dude "Lucked" into getting back an established top 5 QB along with a Top 5 pick.

Yeah, a lot of guys would succeed walking into that.  

And people want to act like they made a suer bowl run.
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#29

(09-08-2019, 07:20 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 06:54 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: And yet in our own division, Chris Ballard was hired 3 years ago and has rebuilt the Colts.  If the suckage continues this year, it's time to clean house from top to bottom.

I don't completely get this, either.

This is Ballard's third year.

In 2017, they were 4-12.

Last year, they made the playoffs after starting 1-5.

So far this year, they have started 0-1, just like us.

What was the difference?  Yes, they had a good draft last year by most accounts.  But the big difference is they they had a healthy enough to be functional Andrew Luck in 2018.

In 2017, they didn't and they finished 4-12.

They don't this year, and thus far they are 0-1, just like the Jaguars.

Who has the better O-line?  The Colts.  Who built the Colts into a respectable defense in 3 years.  Ballard.  

Let's not pretend there is not a qualitative difference in a narrow loss to a Super Bowl contender and getting blown out by a Super Bowl contender.

Ballard has run rings around Caldwell/Coughlin.
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#30

(09-08-2019, 07:51 PM)I am Yoda Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 07:20 PM)Bullseye Wrote: I don't completely get this, either.

This is Ballard's third year.

In 2017, they were 4-12.

Last year, they made the playoffs after starting 1-5.

So far this year, they have started 0-1, just like us.

What was the difference?  Yes, they had a good draft last year by most accounts.  But the big difference is they they had a healthy enough to be functional Andrew Luck in 2018.

In 2017, they didn't and they finished 4-12.

They don't this year, and thus far they are 0-1, just like the Jaguars.

Who has the better O-line?  The Colts.  Who built the Colts into a respectable defense in 3 years.  Ballard.  

Let's not pretend there is not a qualitative difference in a narrow loss to a Super Bowl contender and getting blown out by a Super Bowl contender.

Ballard has run rings around Caldwell/Coughlin.

O Line is not the only thing that makes a team.

Better RB?  Jaguars

Better DL?  Jaguars

Better DB?  Despite how it looked today, Jaguars.

Ballard's head to head record against our Caldwell built Jaguars?

1-3.

Did that superior OL help the Colts score the last time we played them?  No.  Three out of the last four games, we've held the Ballard built offenses to 7 points or less.

If he's clearly better, explain those results.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#31

(09-08-2019, 07:58 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 07:51 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: Who has the better O-line?  The Colts.  Who built the Colts into a respectable defense in 3 years.  Ballard.  

Let's not pretend there is not a qualitative difference in a narrow loss to a Super Bowl contender and getting blown out by a Super Bowl contender.

Ballard has run rings around Caldwell/Coughlin.

O Line is not the only thing that makes a team.

Better RB?  Jaguars

Better DL?  Jaguars

Better DB?  Despite how it looked today, Jaguars.

Ballard's head to head record against our Caldwell built Jaguars?

1-3.

Did that superior OL help the Colts score the last time we played them?  No.  Three out of the last four games, we've held the Ballard built offenses to 7 points or less.

If he's clearly better, explain those results.

Better RB?  Marlon Mack today: 25 for 174 and 1 TD with a 7.0 average.  I don't think Fournette's clearly better.

Better DB?  Really?  After last year's debacle that continued today, I wouldn't say that.  Our safeties are terribad and the corners are over-hyped. They got schooled all day long.

2017 the Colts had a rookie qb that didn't know their system and did not yet have all the pieces on the OL.  AND our defense was playing better in 2017 than ever and it has not returned to that form.

Ballard has done a far better job of finding talent and assembling a team in the last three years.  Stack up the drafts and the free agent signings in those three years.

I know it's an inconvenient comparison with a hated divisional rival.  But it is what it is.
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#32

A little early for me to throw in but the betting markets aren't good right now. I was worried about Foles surviving and that is just bad luck. Unless KC is a joke, I am going to see if the bad trends continue.

Andy Reid is one of the best regular season coaches you will find. We just don't measure up and we have made mistakes everywhere.
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Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.
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#33

I'm beginning to think Caldwell is a hypnotist. That is the only possible explanation for how he still has defenders after 6/7 putrid seasons under his belt.
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#34

Khan has shown time and time again he has no balls, he will probably extend the 3 of them in the offseason.
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#35

I thought Cougwell outranked Caldhlin !?
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#36

(09-08-2019, 09:15 PM)snaxdelrio Wrote: I thought Cougwell outranked Caldhlin !?

Correct
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#37

(09-08-2019, 08:20 PM)Upper Wrote: I'm beginning to think Caldwell is a hypnotist. That is the only possible explanation for how he still has defenders after 6/7 putrid seasons under his belt.

He acquired some talent when he picked in the top 5 5 years in a row. Show some respect.
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#38

(09-08-2019, 07:27 PM)Nikowho Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 06:11 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: I like Caldwell more than most here but he's at some glaring blunders in his time here for sure.

I want to like Caldwell. I really do. He's not a Gene Smith, and for that, i'm thankful, but how many of his first round picks alone have failed? Any team that has the amount of first round misfires Jacksonville's had is not going to win consistently. But it's not even just that, because for whatever reason, the man DOES make up for it by snagging good to very good talent in the latter rounds. I'll give him that.

But my real issue with Caldwell was bringing Gus Bradley in as a head coach. And then sticking with him when it was clear that he was out of his depth. Hindsight is what it is, but it could've been possible that Bortles COULD have been a better QB if he'd been developed by a real coach with a mind for development. So having Bradley ruined Bortles' initial progress. I think from then on, Bortles had trouble recovering from that. He was lousy outside of garbage time in 2015 and game managership in 2017.

Bradley set this team back for another several years, and honestly, i cannot say I'm supportive of Caldwell being the guy that, SHOULD Marrone get fired later this season, picks a new head coach. I barely trust him with first round picks at this point; Ramsey and Allen both fell into Caldwell's lap because other teams didn't take them. I call that luck. Jokell was a bust, though I won't blame all of that on Caldwell; the Joke was supposed to be pretty good. But Bortles was a [BLEEP] reach and we all know it. I'm not saying there was a better QB to take at the time, but there WAS premium talent at other positions that they could've pursued instead; Khalil Mack was available, for example. I guess I'm grateful he didn't bring in Johnny  Manziel, but Bortles is hardly a consolation prize

I don't blame Caldwell for Bradley. First off, at the time the Jags were terrible with the future looking even more dismal. I doubt there were very many coaching prospects who had the Jags at the top of their wish list. Bradley was frequently mentioned as a prime candidate for a head coaching job, and when you hire a coach with no previous head coaching experience you are in a high risk (and hopefully high reward) situation.

I suspect the Jags had to promise Bradley, or any other prime candidate at the time, a full four years. As much as I despised Bradley for delaying the rebuild, I can understand the Jags not reneging on the promise. Khan may have had some say on that too.


And I'm pretty sure keeping Marrone was a Coughlin choice.

Bortles was a mistake. Khalil Mack was a popular guess for the Jags pick at the time, but I saw him as a consolation prize after Clowney, since it's hard to judge just how well a small school player will translate. Of course Mack turned out to be much better than Clowney. The 2014 draft was a great draft for Caldwell in spite of Bortles. The Jags got three Pro Bowl level players in Robinson, Linder, and Telvin.

I do agree with the opinion that Ballard is a better GM than Caldwell, although he lucked into not hiring McDaniels. But the clots limped along for years with worse GM and tacks GM isn't as good as Caldwell. Houston doesn't even have a GM and their personnel decisions have been laughable this year.




                                                                          

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#39

(09-08-2019, 08:08 PM)I am Yoda Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 07:58 PM)Bullseye Wrote: O Line is not the only thing that makes a team.

Better RB?  Jaguars

Better DL?  Jaguars

Better DB?  Despite how it looked today, Jaguars.

Ballard's head to head record against our Caldwell built Jaguars?

1-3.

Did that superior OL help the Colts score the last time we played them?  No.  Three out of the last four games, we've held the Ballard built offenses to 7 points or less.

If he's clearly better, explain those results.

Better RB?  Marlon Mack today: 25 for 174 and 1 TD with a 7.0 average.  I don't think Fournette's clearly better.

Better DB?  Really?  After last year's debacle that continued today, I wouldn't say that.  Our safeties are terribad and the corners are over-hyped. They got schooled all day long.

2017 the Colts had a rookie qb that didn't know their system and did not yet have all the pieces on the OL.  AND our defense was playing better in 2017 than ever and it has not returned to that form.

Ballard has done a far better job of finding talent and assembling a team in the last three years.  Stack up the drafts and the free agent signings in those three years.

I know it's an inconvenient comparison with a hated divisional rival.  But it is what it is.

Yes the DBS are better.  They got schooled today, but held the same team to their lowest passing game output last season.  Our defense has been a top five defense statistically the last three seasons due in large part to that secondary.  There are two Pro Bowlers in the secondary=one of whom made 1st team All Pro.  None of the Colts DBs can make that claim.  That secondary shut out the Colts last year, and held them to 10 points or less in three of the last four games.  You still haven't explained those results if Ballard is better.


As for your explanation as to why Ballard has a 1-3 record against Coldwell, Brisset was NOT a rookie QB when he came to the Colts.  Brissett was in his second year when he came to the Colts.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...isJa00.htm

Furthermore, why didn't Ballard make the trade sooner so he would know the system sooner?  Presumably, Brissett knew the system later in the year when shut down by the Jaguars again.  What about Luck?  Did :uck NOT know the system when they were shut out last year?


Free agent signings?

Caldwell 2017:  Calais Campbell, A.J. Bouye, Barry Church
Ballard:  John Hankins, John Simon, Barkevious mingo, Jabaal Sheard, Al Woods, Margus Hunt, Kamar Aiken.

No combination of their guys beats those Caldwell's three.

Caldwell 2018:  
  • Austin Seferian-Jenkins, TE.
  • Niles Paul, TE.
  • Don Carey, ST.
  • D.J. Hayden, CB.
  • Donte Moncrief, WR.
  • Andrew Norwell, G.
Ballard 2018:  
  • Matt Slauson, OL.
  • Ryan Grant, WR.
  • Eric Ebron, TE.
  • Denico Autry, DE.

Both teams got two starters out of the 2018 class.  You could give the edge to Ballard because of Ebron, but he did nothing today 1-8 yards)


2017
Caldwell led Jaguars:  10-6, AFC South Champions, 2-0 against the Colts; advanced to AFC Championship game.
Ballard led Colts:  4-12, last place in AFC South; 0-2 vs Jaguars.

2018

Caldwell led Jaguars: 5-11, last place in the AFC South, 1-1 against the Colts
Ballard led Colts:  10-6, 2nd place in the AFC South, 1-1 against Jaguars; advanced to divisional round of playoffs.

2019

Both teams 0-1

Totals: 

Caldwell 15-18, one divisional championship, one AFCCG appearance, 3-1 vs. the Colts
Ballard: 14-19, no divisional championships, no AFCCG appearances, 1-3 vs. the Jaguars
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#40

(09-08-2019, 09:58 PM)MalabarJag Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 07:27 PM)Nikowho Wrote: I want to like Caldwell. I really do. He's not a Gene Smith, and for that, i'm thankful, but how many of his first round picks alone have failed? Any team that has the amount of first round misfires Jacksonville's had is not going to win consistently. But it's not even just that, because for whatever reason, the man DOES make up for it by snagging good to very good talent in the latter rounds. I'll give him that.

But my real issue with Caldwell was bringing Gus Bradley in as a head coach. And then sticking with him when it was clear that he was out of his depth. Hindsight is what it is, but it could've been possible that Bortles COULD have been a better QB if he'd been developed by a real coach with a mind for development. So having Bradley ruined Bortles' initial progress. I think from then on, Bortles had trouble recovering from that. He was lousy outside of garbage time in 2015 and game managership in 2017.

Bradley set this team back for another several years, and honestly, i cannot say I'm supportive of Caldwell being the guy that, SHOULD Marrone get fired later this season, picks a new head coach. I barely trust him with first round picks at this point; Ramsey and Allen both fell into Caldwell's lap because other teams didn't take them. I call that luck. Jokell was a bust, though I won't blame all of that on Caldwell; the Joke was supposed to be pretty good. But Bortles was a [BLEEP] reach and we all know it. I'm not saying there was a better QB to take at the time, but there WAS premium talent at other positions that they could've pursued instead; Khalil Mack was available, for example. I guess I'm grateful he didn't bring in Johnny  Manziel, but Bortles is hardly a consolation prize

I don't blame Caldwell for Bradley. First off, at the time the Jags were terrible with the future looking even more dismal. I doubt there were very many coaching prospects who had the Jags at the top of their wish list. Bradley was frequently mentioned as a prime candidate for a head coaching job, and when you hire a coach with no previous head coaching experience you are in a high risk (and hopefully high reward) situation.

I suspect the Jags had to promise Bradley, or any other prime candidate at the time, a full four years. As much as I despised Bradley for delaying the rebuild, I can understand the Jags not reneging on the promise. Khan may have had some say on that too.


And I'm pretty sure keeping Marrone was a Coughlin choice.

Bortles was a mistake. Khalil Mack was a popular guess for the Jags pick at the time, but I saw him as a consolation prize after Clowney, since it's hard to judge just how well a small school player will translate. Of course Mack turned out to be much better than Clowney. The 2014 draft was a great draft for Caldwell in spite of Bortles. The Jags got three Pro Bowl level players in Robinson, Linder, and Telvin.

I do agree with the opinion that Ballard is a better GM than Caldwell, although he lucked into not hiring McDaniels. But the clots limped along for years with worse GM and tacks GM isn't as good as Caldwell. Houston doesn't even have a GM and their personnel decisions have been laughable this year.

He also Lucked into having a season with Andrew Luck as his QB, and never having to draft his own guy. 

Had Luck retired after the 2017 season, the Colts never make the trade down from 3 to six and never get those extra high picks from the Jets.  They likely draft Darnold instead of Nelson, and end up without either Leonard or Braden Smith.

That Colts team looks a lot different, and the perception of Ballard is much different.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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