By that matter, so is Watson and it hasn't hindered him yet

Watsons arm is more like average and he's one of the best playmakers in the league at QB. 

Minshew has played well, idc about arm velocity if you play like he does but it's just the reality of who he is as a QB.

I'm not comparing the playmaking ability at this point. But on pure arm strength/velocity Watson is terrible.

Watson threw 45mph left and right
Minshew threw 55 left 53 right

Watson had the lowest velocity of any clocked QB in like 10 years. 

Point being arm strength is a [BLEEP] indicator of success. And Watson is a prime example

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Well, yeah. I mean I disliked the pick and advised against it pre-draft for exactly the reasons we're seeing play out.
But most offenses use a bit of smoke and mirrors for their backs. I'm just hoping to see Flip try a few different versions of it than he did today. 
Fournette's skillset is limited, his vision is [BLEEP], and his contact balance is non existent, but if they are going to keep trotting him out as a bellcow I'd like to see them work to get him some space to run.

I'm wondering if we know what kind of RB we want Fournette to be. Too slow when he was bigger and too many hits and he is slimmer this year and has some speed back but is by no means a burner. Hes hitting holes nowhere near as hard as that rookie year.

We seem to want him to be everything. 3 down back, power, speed, agility, catching. I'd rather see us, like last season with Grant and Yeldon, guys with other skills to compliment Fournettes game. Fournette was in for 97% of O snaps today.

Fournette was the 4th overall pick... It shouldn't be a question of "us wanting him to be etc". The fact of the matter is that he should be all of those things (or at least most of them), otherwise, why in the blue hell was he taken 4th overall as a RB?

Problem is, he's only one of those things, and that's just straight line speed, IF he has 10-15+ yards of wide open space to build it up.

This team should have kept Yeldon honestly and they should give Armstead some carries/touches.

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None of ever even conceived we would all be mad because the coach didn't put the game in the hands of a two game rookie QB that hardly anyone wanted on the roster at all with the game on the line because he's already worthy of that confidence, but here we are...

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None of ever even conceived we would all be mad because the coach didn't put the game in the hands of a two game rookie QB that hardly anyone wanted on the roster at all with the game on the line because he's already worthy of that confidence, but here we are...

 And yet, even after blowing a first pick on Fournette, last year's draft looks like it could be a big one for us, with Josh Allen, Quincy and Minshew. And I think Taylor will settle down eventually too.
We haven't even seen the TE from San Jose State--he could be another weapon.

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I'm wondering if we know what kind of RB we want Fournette to be. Too slow when he was bigger and too many hits and he is slimmer this year and has some speed back but is by no means a burner. Hes hitting holes nowhere near as hard as that rookie year.

We seem to want him to be everything. 3 down back, power, speed, agility, catching. I'd rather see us, like last season with Grant and Yeldon, guys with other skills to compliment Fournettes game. Fournette was in for 97% of O snaps today.

Fournette was the 4th overall pick... It shouldn't be a question of "us wanting him to be etc". The fact of the matter is that he should be all of those things (or at least most of them), otherwise, why in the blue hell was he taken 4th overall as a RB?

Problem is, he's only one of those things, and that's just straight line speed, IF he has 10-15+ yards of wide open space to build it up.

This team should have kept Yeldon honestly and they should give Armstead some carries/touches.

Coughlin need pick driven by a need to salvage Bortles and double down on propping him up.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

None of ever even conceived we would all be mad because the coach didn't put the game in the hands of a two game rookie QB that hardly anyone wanted on the roster at all with the game on the line because he's already worthy of that confidence, but here we are...

 And yet, even after blowing a first pick on Fournette, last year's draft looks like it could be a big one for us, with Josh Allen, Quincy and Minshew. And I think Taylor will settle down eventually too.
We haven't even seen the TE from San Jose State--he could be another weapon.

And who would've thought... 2018's class may not be as awful as some people wanted to claim it to be after their rookie season... 

Taven Bryan had a couple of nice pressures today. Put together back to back solid games.

DJ Chark has been showing out both weeks now. Hes made some big time catches.

Ronnie Harrison can definitely play.

Will Richardson is proving that he has a lot of value on the OL as a whole. He may not be a bookend/franchise LT and is probably better suited at OG, but he's shown he can play any OT/OG spot going forward imo. Good to have guys like that.

Leon Jacobs has put together 2 solid games. He made a few plays today.

Logan Cooke was money all day today.

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I'm wondering if we know what kind of RB we want Fournette to be. Too slow when he was bigger and too many hits and he is slimmer this year and has some speed back but is by no means a burner. Hes hitting holes nowhere near as hard as that rookie year.

We seem to want him to be everything. 3 down back, power, speed, agility, catching. I'd rather see us, like last season with Grant and Yeldon, guys with other skills to compliment Fournettes game. Fournette was in for 97% of O snaps today.

Fournette was the 4th overall pick... It shouldn't be a question of "us wanting him to be etc". The fact of the matter is that he should be all of those things (or at least most of them), otherwise, why in the blue hell was he taken 4th overall as a RB?

Problem is, he's only one of those things, and that's just straight line speed, IF he has 10-15+ yards of wide open space to build it up.

This team should have kept Yeldon honestly and they should give Armstead some carries/touches.

Oh I agree that a 4th overall should be able to do whatever you want. Maybe it's trying to find what exactly can Fournette do.

The big thing for me is how he is hitting the holes. He used to be hammer into that line but take the 4th and 1 on the last drive or the 2pt, he almost stutter steps into the line. He would push guys 4 yards back just with his momentum.

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I'm wondering if we know what kind of RB we want Fournette to be. Too slow when he was bigger and too many hits and he is slimmer this year and has some speed back but is by no means a burner. Hes hitting holes nowhere near as hard as that rookie year.

We seem to want him to be everything. 3 down back, power, speed, agility, catching. I'd rather see us, like last season with Grant and Yeldon, guys with other skills to compliment Fournettes game. Fournette was in for 97% of O snaps today.

Yeah. I'm actually really surprised Flip doesn't want to employ a C.o.P. back to mix things up and keep defenses guessing a bit more vs the run. Thought he'd want to do that based on what I read about him in the offseason.

I do think Flip will adapt his approach if LF continues on today's trajectory in this bellcow roll.

Might be because Flip doesn't think any other back on the team is worth giving carries to. I know a lot of people were excited when the team grabbed Armstead, but maybe Flip doesn't think his raw talents project to helping the team now? Its not like last year where the team had Yeldon and Hyde, who had both shown they could shoulder some load. That said, despite my optimism for Fournette heading into this year, I think its time to start giving Armstead carries.

I just hope the team doesn't overreact again and trade a draft pick for a backup that they don't use...

The big thing for me is how he is hitting the holes. He used to be hammer into that line but take the 4th and 1 on the last drive or the 2pt, he almost stutter steps into the line. He would push guys 4 yards back just with his momentum.

I wonder if Fournette is going through "QB-behind-bad-line" syndrome where he's feeling ghosts before he even gets to the hole. A lot of his carries these past 3 years he's been hit at the line or behind the line. Maybe his tenativeness is from expecting to be hit so he's overthinking his runs. Given his main issue since being drafted has been finding the best running lanes on a given play, overthinking his runs is probably the worst thing that could happen for his career...

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"The season's not over... we still have a bunch of games to lose..." - TemporaryName

 


"The middle of the field is like Narnia to us, we don't believe it really exists" - Marvsin


 

if your going to go for 2,and the win be creative,do something no one would expect.   think about this one. your down by 1 point so you line up your team to kick a fg,but you do a fake kick,flip pss with lambo to the te in end zone. most defenses wouldn't expect that.  Craitvity wins games too.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

1) Minshew can [BLEEP] PLAY!!! He's the best QB we've had since Garrard, that drive at the end of the game for the matching TD was some of the most clutch football plays you'll see this season. Just because he was drafted in the 6th round doesn't mean he's Brady... but he might be a Marc Bulger. A guy who was highly accurate and took care of the football.

2) Our Offensive Guards are utter trash. The rookie tackles are going to have growing pains.. i get that. Linder had an untimely penalty, but to hear the stat that it was the first time he was called for a hold in damn near 2 years, that was nuts to me. But Cann gets no push in the run game and has imho arguably cost us 2 games... He let Chris Jones whoop him last week and breaks Foles collarbone, this week they choose to go for 2 by giving it to Fournette behind him and I just don't understand, we need Cam to come back and play LT so Richardson can play RG where he has actually looked good. Norwell had a few good moments, but he just has too many bad moments to be worth the bag we gave him. Guards are the easiest thing to find for an Oline and we just seem to be incapable of evaluating talent at that position.

3) The Defense Crushed it today, I can't blame them for defending that short field from the turnover. The Run Defense needs to improve.. it has been our achilles heel for the past 2 years, we can't expect to contend until it's addressed, not entirely sure what the issue is.

4) The officiating today was garbage. Soft Ticky Tacky calls, seemingly whenever we got something going offensively. That holding call on Watt (at the end of the play when he's 10 yards from Minshew being doubleblocked.. like really he doesn't have a chance to impact the play. let em play ref) led to the fumble as it changed the entire momentum as well as down and distance situation allowing their D to pin their ears back and try and get a stripsack. As has become a pattern, the refs hosed us.

5) The coaching is just bad, really bad. The decision to run it on the 2 point conversion. And behind your WORST Offensive Linemen... I just don't understand


I'm tired of losing, this team invents new ways to do it each week I swear.

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Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

Marrone possibly losing/lost the team is a legitimate concern for me, and it has been since last year.  That's a legitimate reason fir letting him go.

But if he has lost the team, it's stunning how quickly it happened.

He is the one the implemented a more serious tone in the locker room...taking out the ping pong tables, etc., then actually producing a winning season that first year.

But last year everything went south in a hurry with the injuries and the discipline seemed to go with it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  And once a team is lost, it's almost impossible to get back.  It's not as much Ramsey's blow up as it is what is not seen that has me concerned.  Ramsey is a flamboyant player and he's going to display what's on his mind.  What concerns me is if the players have lost their belief in who is leading them.

1.  As for as the two point conversion, I'd be lying if I didn't like the guts to try to win the game and hand the Texans another heartbreaking loss, but like others have said, Minshew should have gotten the chance to make a play.

2.  At this point, Fournette is what he is.  He's an average back.  He can be productive and he's flashy when he gets to full speed, but he doesn't create yards and often times he doesn't even get the yards that are there to be had.  But we're compounding the issue by making him the focal point of our offense.  It's just too predictable and puts us in third and long far too often when we run on nearly every first down.  Why we are not giving some other running backs carries is puzzling although I think our running back depth is worse now then it was with Yeldon and a healthy Grant.  Neither were complete backs, but Yeldon had a knack for making people miss with lateral quickness and picking up first downs and Grant just had the type of speed that is a mismatch and often resulted in defenders taking bad angles.

3.  I had a feeling the defense would play well after last week, but they played even better than anticipated against a Houston offense that looked very high powered against the Saints.  You could argue they really only gave up 3 points if not for the Minshew fumble and Marrone not challenging Hopkin's catch.  I just wish it didn't take an embarrassing week to get this defense motivated to play well.  However, there was something different about the Xs and Os this week.  I liked the blitzing and I think our defense not being predictable is needed against the better offenses in this league.  You can get away with just being more talented against a lot of teams, but if they can be more creative without creating busted assignments, it makes this defense scary.  Hopefully it continues.  The run defense still leaves a lot to be desired especially with the upcoming game against the Tacks, but I'm more confident in the safeties than I was a week ago and saw more good things from Quincy Williams.

4.   There is just something about Minshew that screams "leader".  If he can back that up with his play, we may have something.  With that said, I still see some limitations that hopefully can be overcome by the things he does well.  He's the anti Borltes.  He came down to earth in this game but kept us in the game.  There was a lot more pressure from the Texans defense than last week and I think that was a big reason the production dropped.  The oline needs to give him some time to throw to truly see his potential.  He seemed more aggressive throwing downfield in the 4th quarter when we needed some points.  I wish he would take more chances earlier in the game.  He does need to do better hanging on to the ball when taking hits although on the lost fumble the defender was there so quick I hardly blame him for that.  Let's hope he's the Tack killer that we've desperately longed for.

5.  Chark has made strides although I still think the quarterback play and improved ball placement is also bringing out what was already there.  This team has no clear go to guy or number one receiver, but if anyone has the chance to be that, it's Chark imo.  Conley may not be as fast as Moncrief or jump as high, but he's better at everything else that has to do with being a receiver.  He catches well, runs good routes, seems to be physical in the running game, and plays winning football.

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4) The officiating today was garbage. Soft Ticky Tacky calls, seemingly whenever we got something going offensively. That holding call on Watt (at the end of the play when he's 10 yards from Minshew being doubleblocked.. like really he doesn't have a chance to impact the play. let em play ref) led to the fumble as it changed the entire momentum as well as down and distance situation allowing their D to pin their ears back and try and get a stripsack. As has become a pattern, the refs hosed us.

That penalty was absolutely infuriating.  It was ticky tacky to the core.  Watt "sold" it, but that's about all I can say.  Are well known players going to be rewarded for "selling" penalties now?  The one drive it seemed like Minshew would have to gain 120 yards through the air just to get in field goal range with the way we were being flagged.  Some of those were legit calls, but the ticky tacky ones always come at the worst times like the one you're referring to where we hit a big play.

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1. What's up with Norwell? Is he just not that good? How was he an All-Pro?

2. It's nice too see how much perception is changing on a WR corps that can actually count on having a ball delivered where they expect it now. 

3. Fournette needs to learn there's a time to try to set up a block to break a long run and there's a time to just get through a hole. I've seen enough of him chopping his steps up to the line when we need 1 or 2 yards. That 4th and 1 was maddening.

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4) The officiating today was garbage. Soft Ticky Tacky calls, seemingly whenever we got something going offensively. That holding call on Watt (at the end of the play when he's 10 yards from Minshew being doubleblocked.. like really he doesn't have a chance to impact the play. let em play ref) led to the fumble as it changed the entire momentum as well as down and distance situation allowing their D to pin their ears back and try and get a stripsack. As has become a pattern, the refs hosed us.

That penalty was absolutely infuriating.  It was ticky tacky to the core.  Watt "sold" it, but that's about all I can say.  Are well known players going to be rewarded for "selling" penalties now?  The one drive it seemed like Minshew would have to gain 120 yards through the air just to get in field goal range with the way we were being flagged.  Some of those were legit calls, but the ticky tacky ones always come at the worst times like the one you're referring to where we hit a big play.

That and the OPI were pretty weak but I also thought the Jaguars benefitted from a few non-calls on Taylor for false start and got a lot of help on that 4th and 1 first down call.

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1. What's up with Norwell? Is he just not that good? How was he an All-Pro?

2. It's nice too see how much perception is changing on a WR corps that can actually count on having a ball delivered where they expect it now. 

3. Fournette needs to learn there's a time to try to set up a block to break a long run and there's a time to just get through a hole. I've seen enough of him chopping his steps up to the line when we need 1 or 2 yards. That 4th and 1 was maddening.

Norwell looked bad today. Beadles 2.0 thus far. 

Minshew has developed some timing with Conley and Chark. Can't wait to see him get his chemistry with Westbrook and that part of the playbook too. Should present another element offensively. 
Based on his timing and placement thus far, I think Oliver in the seam could also become "a thing" in a few weeks time. 

Good observation on Fournette. He has little to no situational awareness. It's like he's just guessing out there half the time.

---

1. What's up with Norwell? Is he just not that good? How was he an All-Pro?

2. It's nice too see how much perception is changing on a WR corps that can actually count on having a ball delivered where they expect it now. 

3. Fournette needs to learn there's a time to try to set up a block to break a long run and there's a time to just get through a hole. I've seen enough of him chopping his steps up to the line when we need 1 or 2 yards. That 4th and 1 was maddening.

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That penalty was absolutely infuriating.  It was ticky tacky to the core.  Watt "sold" it, but that's about all I can say.  Are well known players going to be rewarded for "selling" penalties now?  The one drive it seemed like Minshew would have to gain 120 yards through the air just to get in field goal range with the way we were being flagged.  Some of those were legit calls, but the ticky tacky ones always come at the worst times like the one you're referring to where we hit a big play.

That and the OPI were pretty weak but I also thought the Jaguars benefitted from a few non-calls on Taylor for false start and got a lot of help on that 4th and 1 first down call.

Last year Norwell was dealing with injuries and I gave him a pass, but as far as I know, he's healthy and doesn't look anything like an All Pro.  He's not as bad as Cann, but he also doesn't look anything like a player that's being paid what he is.  Did Cam Newton make him look good?

Despite being a big back, I don't think Fournette will ever be a good short yardage back because of the lack of vision and the surprising lack of power for his size, which probably has a lot to do with the choppy feet and likely too high of a center of gravity.

I understood why the OPI stood because it was called on the field, but still weak considering how much Hopkins pushes off.  I missed the uncalled false start, but I agree about getting the benefit on the 4th and 1 call.

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Might be because Flip doesn't think any other back on the team is worth giving carries to. I know a lot of people were excited when the team grabbed Armstead, but maybe Flip doesn't think his raw talents project to helping the team now? Its not like last year where the team had Yeldon and Hyde, who had both shown they could shoulder some load. That said, despite my optimism for Fournette heading into this year, I think its time to start giving Armstead carries.

I just hope the team doesn't overreact again and trade a draft pick for a backup that they don't use...

I wonder if Fournette is going through "QB-behind-bad-line" syndrome where he's feeling ghosts before he even gets to the hole. A lot of his carries these past 3 years he's been hit at the line or behind the line. Maybe his tenativeness is from expecting to be hit so he's overthinking his runs. Given his main issue since being drafted has been finding the best running lanes on a given play, overthinking his runs is probably the worst thing that could happen for his career...

He has never known how to hit a hole. Go watch him play against Alabama. He couldn't get it done because the huge holes weren't there. Now they are playing him every down and he is doing nothing.

Look at the 2 pt try. There was a bigger hole between the RT & TE. There also wasn't a defender waiting with his feet set. He could have also dived into the end zone.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

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1. What's up with Norwell? Is he just not that good? How was he an All-Pro?

2. It's nice too see how much perception is changing on a WR corps that can actually count on having a ball delivered where they expect it now. 

3. Fournette needs to learn there's a time to try to set up a block to break a long run and there's a time to just get through a hole. I've seen enough of him chopping his steps up to the line when we need 1 or 2 yards. That 4th and 1 was maddening.

Norwell looked bad today. Beadles 2.0 thus far. 

Minshew has developed some timing with Conley and Chark. Can't wait to see him get his chemistry with Westbrook and that part of the playbook too. Should present another element offensively. 
Based on his timing and placement thus far, I think Oliver in the seam could also become "a thing" in a few weeks time. 

Good observation on Fournette. He has little to no situational awareness. It's like he's just guessing out there half the time.

The funny thing is, he has the same look as Zane Beadles as well with the long hair and body type.  Seeing him in his stance gave me flash backs of Beadles poor play.

---

1. What's up with Norwell? Is he just not that good? How was he an All-Pro?

2. It's nice too see how much perception is changing on a WR corps that can actually count on having a ball delivered where they expect it now. 

3. Fournette needs to learn there's a time to try to set up a block to break a long run and there's a time to just get through a hole. I've seen enough of him chopping his steps up to the line when we need 1 or 2 yards. That 4th and 1 was maddening.

---

That and the OPI were pretty weak but I also thought the Jaguars benefitted from a few non-calls on Taylor for false start and got a lot of help on that 4th and 1 first down call.

Last year Norwell was dealing with injuries and I gave him a pass, but as far as I know, he's healthy and doesn't look anything like an All Pro.  He's not as bad as Cann, but he also doesn't look anything like a player that's being paid what he is.  Did Cam Newton make him look good?

Despite being a big back, I don't think Fournette will ever be a good short yardage back because of the lack of vision and the surprising lack of power for his size, which probably has a lot to do with the choppy feet and likely too high of a center of gravity.

I understood why the OPI stood because it was called on the field, but still weak considering how much Hopkins pushes off.  I missed the uncalled false start, but I agree about getting the benefit on the 4th and 1 call.

My thoughts exactly. I certainly didn't watch many Panthers game while he was there but he was widely bailed as a great guard, and especially in pass protection. He just looks plain average here.

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Might be because Flip doesn't think any other back on the team is worth giving carries to. I know a lot of people were excited when the team grabbed Armstead, but maybe Flip doesn't think his raw talents project to helping the team now? Its not like last year where the team had Yeldon and Hyde, who had both shown they could shoulder some load. That said, despite my optimism for Fournette heading into this year, I think its time to start giving Armstead carries.

I just hope the team doesn't overreact again and trade a draft pick for a backup that they don't use...

I wonder if Fournette is going through "QB-behind-bad-line" syndrome where he's feeling ghosts before he even gets to the hole. A lot of his carries these past 3 years he's been hit at the line or behind the line. Maybe his tenativeness is from expecting to be hit so he's overthinking his runs. Given his main issue since being drafted has been finding the best running lanes on a given play, overthinking his runs is probably the worst thing that could happen for his career...

He has never known how to hit a hole. Go watch him play against Alabama. He couldn't get it done because the huge holes weren't there. Now they are playing him every down and he is doing nothing.

Look at the 2 pt try. There was a bigger hole between the RT & TE. There also wasn't a defender waiting with his feet set. He could have also dived into the end zone.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

That's fair. I was unclear in my initial post. That's my bad.

Fournette was never great at finding the hole, but he used to at least run hard to what he thought the hole was. Sometimes he found a hole; sometimes he ran straight into his lineman's back. But he always ran hard to the line.

I was responding to someone who said he looks like he's stutter-stepping up to the line, so my reply was more about his hesitation in even getting to the line, rather than finding the hole. Like he's trying too hard to find the hole now when he should just be running hard, because at least he had some success doing that.

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"The season's not over... we still have a bunch of games to lose..." - TemporaryName

 


"The middle of the field is like Narnia to us, we don't believe it really exists" - Marvsin


 

We lost. Again.

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