You guys should beat the tacks thursday, maybe knock mary out for us?

Last year we were winning until we knocked Mariota out, and in came Blaine Gabbert, and he beat us.  Ouch.

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Only positive I see is Marrone, Caldwell, and Coughlin are one game closer to being fired.

I don't see a problem with Caldwell.  We have a lot of talent on this roster.

We knocked Gabbs out last year, MerryOtter came in and beat us with nerve damage to his throwing hand.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You guys should beat the tacks thursday, maybe knock mary out for us?

Last year we were winning until we knocked Mariota out, and in came Blaine Gabbert, and he beat us.  Ouch.

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Only positive I see is Marrone, Caldwell, and Coughlin are one game closer to being fired.

I don't see a problem with Caldwell.  We have a lot of talent on this roster.

Relative to who? It's been 6 years of mostly top 8 draft picks and massive amounts of money and the roster still isn't top 10 in the NFL

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Last year we were winning until we knocked Mariota out, and in came Blaine Gabbert, and he beat us.  Ouch.

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I don't see a problem with Caldwell.  We have a lot of talent on this roster.

We knocked Gabbs out last year, MerryOtter came in and beat us with nerve damage to his throwing hand.

Oh, yeah, now I remember.  You're right.

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Last year we were winning until we knocked Mariota out, and in came Blaine Gabbert, and he beat us.  Ouch.

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I don't see a problem with Caldwell.  We have a lot of talent on this roster.

Relative to who? It's been 6 years of mostly top 8 draft picks and massive amounts of money and the roster still isn't top 10 in the NFL

Well, I respectfully disagree.  I think we have enough talent on this roster to make the playoffs.

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Relative to who? It's been 6 years of mostly top 8 draft picks and massive amounts of money and the roster still isn't top 10 in the NFL

I can only assume the people who consistently make that argument simply don't watch the rest of the NFL. There's no way you can watch the rest of the league and think that our talent level is where it should be for a guy who has spent as much money and had as many high draft picks as Caldwell has.

And if you want to blame coaching, either Gus or Doug, well they're big negative's on Dave's ledger as well.

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We knocked Gabbs out last year, MerryOtter came in and beat us with nerve damage to his throwing hand.

Oh, yeah, now I remember.  You're right.

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Relative to who? It's been 6 years of mostly top 8 draft picks and massive amounts of money and the roster still isn't top 10 in the NFL

Then why fire Marrone?  If the problem is the roster, how is it Marrone's fault?  

I see this all the time and it makes no sense.  If we need to fire Caldwell, it's because he hasn't provided Marrone with enough talent to win.  If we need to fire Marrone, then it's because he has enough talent to win, but he is losing in spite of it.  Well which one is it?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Oh, yeah, now I remember.  You're right.

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Then why fire Marrone?  If the problem is the roster, how is it Marrone's fault?  

I see this all the time and it makes no sense.  If we need to fire Caldwell, it's because he hasn't provided Marrone with enough talent to win.  If we need to fire Marrone, then it's because he has enough talent to win, but he is losing in spite of it.  Well which one is it?

Because "both" is the angry, "fire everybody" emotional reaction that doesn't actually make logical sense.

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Relative to who? It's been 6 years of mostly top 8 draft picks and massive amounts of money and the roster still isn't top 10 in the NFL

I can only assume the people who consistently make that argument simply don't watch the rest of the NFL. There's no way you can watch the rest of the league and think that our talent level is where it should be for a guy who has spent as much money and had as many high draft picks as Caldwell has.

And if you want to blame coaching, either Gus or Doug, well they're big negative's on Dave's ledger as well.

I think the defensive talent is pretty great but the offense has been behind the ball for the better part of 10 years. The Oline is still awful (I actually really like where Taylor is headed though), Fournette is awful, TE is STILL a weak spot and the QB is average to below average (Even though I'm liking some Minshew).

The issue here is that the coaches/GM/Coughlin are not progressive thinkers. They are stubborn old men who are stuck in their ways. It's the reason they drafted Fournette instead of planning ahead with Watson or Mahomes.

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Because "both" is the angry, "fire everybody" emotional reaction that doesn't actually make logical sense.

Sure it does, the GM is getting players for a coach who uses an obsolete philosophy. I'm not the Fire Everyone Guy by any means, but at some point you need a bulldozer, not just a remodel. It's definitely too early this season to fire anyone.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

We knocked Gabbs out last year, MerryOtter came in and beat us with nerve damage to his throwing hand.

Oh, yeah, now I remember.  You're right.

---

Relative to who? It's been 6 years of mostly top 8 draft picks and massive amounts of money and the roster still isn't top 10 in the NFL

Well, I respectfully disagree.  I think we have enough talent on this roster to make the playoffs.

I think like 24 teams could argue they have enough talent to get to the playoffs. 

There is for sure top end talent on our team, just compared to the rest of the league its not top 10

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I guess standards have dropped so low over the last decade + that this collection of talent looks impressive compared to the rest of those teams, but we're still behind the 8 ball for teams that are actually competing and making playoffs

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I can only assume the people who consistently make that argument simply don't watch the rest of the NFL. There's no way you can watch the rest of the league and think that our talent level is where it should be for a guy who has spent as much money and had as many high draft picks as Caldwell has.

And if you want to blame coaching, either Gus or Doug, well they're big negative's on Dave's ledger as well.

I think the defensive talent is pretty great but the offense has been behind the ball for the better part of 10 years. The Oline is still awful (I actually really like where Taylor is headed though), Fournette is awful, TE is STILL a weak spot and the QB is average to below average (Even though I'm liking some Minshew).

The issue here is that the coaches/GM/Coughlin are not progressive thinkers. They are stubborn old men who are stuck in their ways. It's the reason they drafted Fournette instead of planning ahead with Watson or Mahomes.

The defense talent is great, but it's still only 2.5 great drafted players (still waiting for Jack to actually get good, as opposed to the FO who likes taking premature victory laps) and mostly high dollar free agents that we don't have the luxury of dipping into anymore. If we're banking on mostly draft only Caldwell to do the heavy lifting from now on we're going to continue being a sinking ship.

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Front end starters, great, but the backups suck.

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Only positive I see is Marrone, Caldwell, and Coughlin are one game closer to being fired.

I can agree with that.

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Because "both" is the angry, "fire everybody" emotional reaction that doesn't actually make logical sense.

They are all partially to blame. Why keep the bad apples around?  Build the house from the ground up not with the rotten foundation.

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I'll add Tre Herndon to the positives.

While he allowed 1-2 completions he had good coverage even in those situations and I don't recall him being beaten badly or anything like that. He's definitely good depth and we'll see over time what's after that. With Bouye poor play recently, his injuries and his cap hit the kid is playing for a starting job next season.

Taven Bryan had some good plays and actually seemed to show better awareness this time. While nothing outstanding it was surely encouraging.

Logan Cooke was great.

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I'll add Tre Herndon to the positives.

While he allowed 1-2 completions he had good coverage even in those situations and I don't recall him being beaten badly or anything like that. He's definitely good depth and we'll see over time what's after that. With Bouye poor play recently, his injuries and his cap hit the kid is playing for a starting job next season.

Taven Bryan had some good plays and actually seemed to show better awareness this time. While nothing outstanding it was surely encouraging.

Logan Cooke was great.

Herndon impressed. 
I was legit concerned Fuller would torch him repeatedly but he gave up two intermediate passes to him and that was it. 
The pressure up front may have bailed him out on a play or two, but he played well. 

Bryan only had 17 snaps and managed a pressure/hit and a sack on the QB.  That's improvement.


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