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Mid season team needs

#41

(11-06-2019, 11:04 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(11-06-2019, 10:53 AM)Kane Wrote: From what I can gather , without paying some website a ridiculous fee, he has 2 false starts and 1 hold, 5 total penalities (which means 2 other penalties, like ineligible downfield or personal foul or something)
Pro football reference.

Doesn't seem that high to me.

Can't find a number of pressures, or hurries allowed so please, provide some stats or info to sway my opinion.


As a rookie he had 10 penalties the entire season.
He was also a rookie... and I remember a number of BAD games that year against some of the best pass rushers this game has to offer.

I also remember he had some games where Blake was kept clean and he was a mauler for Fournette.

I don't hear people jumping all over Taylor (a rookie who is struggling much of the time in pass protection)

Cam has 8 penalties and 3 sacks allowed in 66% of snaps played through 10 games. He's been bad. Very good as a run blocker, but bad as a pass protector. 

Yeah Taylor has been bad too, most of the line has. But that's to be expected of a rookie tackle. That's why I said Cam might have struggled as a rookie but you can give that a pass as it's expected.  

It's now year 3 (and yes the ACL is a factor) and he isn't a good enough LT. It's definitely a need this offseason based on what we've seen so far, hopefully he'll improve and make it less a need as the weeks go by.

I see you're using PFF.
Wonder how they got 3 more penalties on Cam than PFR

Taylor has given up 4 sacks, Norwell 3, Minshew himself was responsible for 5. Robinson 3. Richardson and Cann, two a piece.
Is Cam supposed to give up 0 sacks? Also, his 3 sacks, were they beginning of the year when I admit he wasn't playing well? Were they against Von Miller, Cam Jordan and Frank Clark? Those guys are really good.
Context matters.
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#42

(11-06-2019, 11:10 AM)Kane Wrote:
(11-06-2019, 11:04 AM)JackCity Wrote: Cam has 8 penalties and 3 sacks allowed in 66% of snaps played through 10 games. He's been bad. Very good as a run blocker, but bad as a pass protector. 

Yeah Taylor has been bad too, most of the line has. But that's to be expected of a rookie tackle. That's why I said Cam might have struggled as a rookie but you can give that a pass as it's expected.  

It's now year 3 (and yes the ACL is a factor) and he isn't a good enough LT. It's definitely a need this offseason based on what we've seen so far, hopefully he'll improve and make it less a need as the weeks go by.

I see you're using PFF.
Wonder how they got 3 more penalties on Cam than PFR

Taylor has given up 4 sacks, Norwell 3, Minshew himself was responsible for 5. Robinson 3. Richardson and Cann, two a piece.
Is Cam supposed to give up 0 sacks? Also, his 3 sacks, were they beginning of the year when I admit he wasn't playing well? Were they against Von Miller, Cam Jordan and Frank Clark? Those guys are really good.
Context matters.

Other places have 7 or 8 too.  That's a ton of penalties over the course of a full season. Especially given he's missed games and rotated some snaps.  

And no, nobody said that or even suggested it. The jags lead the league in hurries allowed , the tackles poor performance is a big part of that, as is the rest of the line and other factors like QB play (although Minshew has also done a really good job of limiting QB hits and sacks relative to pressure generally speaking).  

It's okay to say Cam has been a pretty poor pass protector this year while also acknowledging he's improved the last few weeks. It's also okay to acknowledge it might be time to upgrade a LT spot that has been a poor protecting the pass protector for years and years
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#43

(11-06-2019, 11:22 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(11-06-2019, 11:10 AM)Kane Wrote: I see you're using PFF.
Wonder how they got 3 more penalties on Cam than PFR

Taylor has given up 4 sacks, Norwell 3, Minshew himself was responsible for 5. Robinson 3. Richardson and Cann, two a piece.
Is Cam supposed to give up 0 sacks? Also, his 3 sacks, were they beginning of the year when I admit he wasn't playing well? Were they against Von Miller, Cam Jordan and Frank Clark? Those guys are really good.
Context matters.

Other places have 7 or 8 too.  That's a ton of penalties over the course of a full season. Especially given he's missed games and rotated some snaps.  

And no, nobody said that or even suggested it. The jags lead the league in hurries allowed , the tackles poor performance is a big part of that, as is the rest of the line and other factors like QB play (although Minshew has also done a really good job of limiting QB hits and sacks relative to pressure generally speaking).  

It's okay to say Cam has been a pretty poor pass protector this year while also acknowledging he's improved the last few weeks. It's also okay to acknowledge it might be time to upgrade a LT spot that has been a poor protecting the pass protector for years and years

Yeah.  I'm repeating myself a bit, but I think Cam's 2019 tape will be analyzed in great detail by this staff at year's end. 
This should be the year he gets it together and proves his worth. The knee injury buys him some early mistakes, but these remaining games will be crucial tape for him if he wants that job in 2020 w/o having to win it in camp against real competition.
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#44

(11-06-2019, 11:29 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(11-06-2019, 11:22 AM)JackCity Wrote: Other places have 7 or 8 too.  That's a ton of penalties over the course of a full season. Especially given he's missed games and rotated some snaps.  

And no, nobody said that or even suggested it. The jags lead the league in hurries allowed , the tackles poor performance is a big part of that, as is the rest of the line and other factors like QB play (although Minshew has also done a really good job of limiting QB hits and sacks relative to pressure generally speaking).  

It's okay to say Cam has been a pretty poor pass protector this year while also acknowledging he's improved the last few weeks. It's also okay to acknowledge it might be time to upgrade a LT spot that has been a poor protecting the pass protector for years and years

Yeah.  I'm repeating myself a bit, but I think Cam's 2019 tape will be analyzed in great detail by this staff at year's end. 
This should be the year he gets it together and proves his worth. The knee injury buys him some early mistakes, but these remaining games will be crucial tape for him if he wants that job in 2020 w/o having to win it in camp against real competition.

He's been legit very good as a run blocker, which I've always commended him for but at the end of the day the pass protection is where you make the money. 

I find it hard to see him getting good enough technique and improving the penalty count as those have been fatal flaws since he stepped footon the field in college. 

If he plays well, great, LT for another few years,.if not , like you said, he should expect legit competition in the offseason
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#45

And me saying he is a bad LT doesn't mean he is necessarily a bad player (although he might be). I think he might make for a very good guard. Our overall number of needs might wind up being the same, we just need a LT instead of a guard.
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#46

(11-06-2019, 01:36 PM)Upper Wrote: And me saying he is a bad LT doesn't mean he is necessarily a bad player (although he might be). I think he might make for a very good guard. Our overall number of needs might wind up being the same, we just need a LT instead of a guard.

Agreed 110%
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#47

(11-05-2019, 01:44 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: That's because TheOlineMatters hates the guy so the only time he's discussed here it's with that negative perspective running wild.

In fairness, I don't really like any of our O-Linemen other than Linder. I think I've complained more about Norwell this season than any other of our O-Linemen. I've never said I wanted to get rid of Robinson. In fact, I've said on many occasions that I would cut or trade Norwell, draft a real LT, (Andrew Thomas, Tristan Wirfs or Trey Adams) and kick Robinson inside to LG. I think he would be an upgrade over Norwell. I don't see the team doing this though.

If I was gonna put Robinson at another position, it would be RT. Taylor is struggling.
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#48

(11-07-2019, 12:07 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 01:44 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: In fairness, I don't really like any of our O-Linemen other than Linder. I think I've complained more about Norwell this season than any other of our O-Linemen. I've never said I wanted to get rid of Robinson. In fact, I've said on many occasions that I would cut or trade Norwell, draft a real LT, (Andrew Thomas, Tristan Wirfs or Trey Adams) and kick Robinson inside to LG. I think he would be an upgrade over Norwell. I don't see the team doing this though.

If I was gonna put Robinson at another position, it would be RT. Taylor is struggling.

I think he would be a decent RT as well, but if you put him there a lot of people on the board would be up in arms saying that you're not giving Taylor a chance, because he's a rookie. That's why I'd move him to LG.
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#49

(11-07-2019, 12:07 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 01:44 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: In fairness, I don't really like any of our O-Linemen other than Linder. I think I've complained more about Norwell this season than any other of our O-Linemen. I've never said I wanted to get rid of Robinson. In fact, I've said on many occasions that I would cut or trade Norwell, draft a real LT, (Andrew Thomas, Tristan Wirfs or Trey Adams) and kick Robinson inside to LG. I think he would be an upgrade over Norwell. I don't see the team doing this though.

If I was gonna put Robinson at another position, it would be RT. Taylor is struggling.

Taylor is struggling as a rookie, but Searcy and Boselli both think he's going to be monster RT when he gets some polish with his footwork and hand placement. 

I'm giving Cam two full years on-field to show what he's got and Taylor should get the same IMO. 

Nobody is getting moved this season anyway and there may be new blood in camp next July.
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#50

I don't think it's an overstatement to say he's one of the best run blockers at tackle in the league. He's an elite sealer and once he gets his paws securely on you are probably going backwards
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#51

(11-07-2019, 09:32 AM)JackCity Wrote: I don't think it's an overstatement to say he's one of the best run blockers at tackle in the league. He's an elite sealer and once he gets his paws securely on you are probably going backwards

CR or JT?
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#52

(11-07-2019, 09:41 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(11-07-2019, 09:32 AM)JackCity Wrote: I don't think it's an overstatement to say he's one of the best run blockers at tackle in the league. He's an elite sealer and once he gets his paws securely on you are probably going backwards

CR or JT?

Robinson. He is a very good run blocker, I'll give him that. It's his pass protection that needs a lot of work.
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#53

(11-07-2019, 09:41 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(11-07-2019, 09:32 AM)JackCity Wrote: I don't think it's an overstatement to say he's one of the best run blockers at tackle in the league. He's an elite sealer and once he gets his paws securely on you are probably going backwards

CR or JT?

Cam
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