So we want to fix his play making ability and turn him into Joe Flacco now?

Or do you want him to force throws more and throw a few more picks?

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Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?

Of course it is.

One of the reasons you always see me preach patience is that players have the chance to develop.

Remember Chark in his first year?  Look at Chark now.

Same with Smoot and Bryan.

Why wouldn't it apply to a rookie QB?

Now it's important we not do anything to stymie his growth and development.

Improving the line and weapons around him would help.

Schematic stability is huge.  If we change coordinators and playbooks again, it would make Minshew and everyone around him less certain, more hesitant, and less effective.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Yeah. I got that impression too. 

Pressure had him a bit rattled and reluctant to keep an eye downfield. I have a feeling the all 22 will show a number of open guys downfield that weren't seen by the QB as he was either evading pressure or overly anticipating pressure.

Of course there have also been instances where he holds the ball too long looking downfield and even the checkdown is then gone from viability -  as well as the other poster eluded.

For the first time the pressure seemed to get to him a bit and I don't just mean on the field. I think he started to feel the weight of the expectations that have grown from his previous performances. Even in the Saints game where he wasn't extremely productive, he never looked rattled. He looked a little rattled yesterday. Especially late in the game.

He was seeing a lot of ghosts in the saints game too with the mush rush. Was really off his game

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I think the lack of a TE is a really huge problem that people are overlooking. Opposing teams are emphasizing covering the WRs, so where is the TE?

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I think the lack of a TE is a really huge problem that people are overlooking.   Opposing teams are emphasizing covering the WRs, so where is the TE?

Honestly I think Oliver is a stud. But he’s got like 2 catches.

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I think the lack of a TE is a really huge problem that people are overlooking.   Opposing teams are emphasizing covering the WRs, so where is the TE?

Honestly I think Oliver is a stud. But he’s got like 2 catches.

He missed so much time in training camp, preseason and the regular season with that hamstring injury, he may not play more than a token role in the offense until next season.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Honestly I think Oliver is a stud. But he’s got like 2 catches.

He missed so much time in training camp, preseason and the regular season with that hamstring injury, he may not play more than a token role in the offense until next season.

Who knows.  If there's ever a time where we might see an uptick in TE production it would be when Foles returns.  Foles loves to utilize the TE.  Then again, Oliver is not Ertz.

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It doesn't matter who we put behind center. This isn't a Minshew right now problem. This is an offensive problem for about 5 years now. The game plan is bad but a bunch of it is because the players are inexperienced, hurt or not executing. Our opponents know our trends, know our plays and can beat us like a drum. When you have inexperience and you are relying on young guys, there is only so much you can put on them to execute.

So we have chicken, egg, chicken problems with our team. The coaches are suspect, the talent is suspect and time may be the only remedy we have. It isn't just the QB that has to make his reads. The WRs have to beat press and adjust routes as needed. Foles may stabilize things in some ways but it is the same coaches and the same inexperienced players. Until we can break through this cycle we are going to be scratching to be .500

The NFL is tough to get wins and no team is above losing. Honestly there are much better coaches out there and they can overcome injuries and inexperience because they have systems and years of working with players.

We keep changing out players like a turnstile and lose guys as they are developing.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

It doesn't matter who we put behind center.  This isn't a Minshew right now problem.  This is an offensive problem for about 5 years now.  The game plan is bad but a bunch of it is because the players are inexperienced, hurt or not executing.  Our opponents know our trends, know our plays and can beat us like a drum.  When you have inexperience and you are relying on young guys, there is only so much you can put on them to execute.

So we have chicken, egg, chicken problems with our team.  The coaches are suspect, the talent is suspect and time may be the only remedy we have.  It isn't just the QB that has to make his reads.  The WRs have to beat press and adjust routes as needed.  Foles may stabilize things in some ways but it is the same coaches and the same inexperienced players.  Until we can break through this cycle we are going to be scratching to be .500

The NFL is tough to get wins and no team is above losing.  Honestly there are much better coaches out there and they can overcome injuries and inexperience because they have systems and years of working with players.

We keep changing out players like a turnstile and lose guys as they are developing.

I do agree with a lot of what you say. Definitely agree on the chicken and egg. Do we build an O/D around player skills or do you recruit players for the system you run. Now you look at turnover player and staff wise. Bradley, Olson, Hackett, Bortles, Kessler. We've never had a set group of players or a system to build around. We work around player deficiencies, cut the playbook down.

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Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?

Yes. He's a rookie. They [BLEEP] up from time to time. It doesn't cancel out how well he's played overall. Next question.

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Actually that is completely backwards. Minshew is a classic pocket QB who is being forced into running by inadequate protection. That he's doing it fairly well speaks to his ability because it was not something he did in college at all.

Hmm.... saw a stat before I turned off the TV that Minshew was kept clean. No hits no hurries. (This was prior to the 4th Q)\

The pass pro isn't perfect by any means. But the kid HAS to learn how to take a damn check down. Far too often Fournette is in the flat or the TE is open on a shallow crosser and he is looking downfield trying to hit the big one to Conley and Chark. When he hits those, we love that play, but sometimes you just gotta take the 3 yards.

He's a rookie. He can learn and get better. But to put it all on the OL is kinda silly.
Most OLs don't/can't protect for 5+ seconds. When our WRs don't get separation and aren't open, he's gotta get rid of it sometimes.

I love the guy, think he can really develop (but probably with a different coaching staff as ours just gets out coached and out schemed far too often)

Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?

Of course it is.

One of the reasons you always see me preach patience is that players have the chance to develop.

Remember Chark in his first year?  Look at Chark now.

Same with Smoot and Bryan.

Why wouldn't it apply to a rookie QB?

Now it's important we not do anything to stymie his growth and development.

Improving the line and weapons around him would help.

Schematic stability is huge.  If we change coordinators and playbooks again, it would make Minshew and everyone around him less certain, more hesitant, and less effective.

I'm curious Bullseye...do you think sitting Minshew (in favor of Foles) will hinder his development? Do you think Gardner can learn a lot from behind the scenes, on the bench--by watching Foles in action. Or do you think it's best for the rookie to play, get the experience, and work through his deficits that way? 

I'll say this - and I pray I'm wrong. I don't think Foles is going to last long behind this line. Minshew may be playing again as early as this season. I hope I'm wrong.

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Hmm.... saw a stat before I turned off the TV that Minshew was kept clean. No hits no hurries. (This was prior to the 4th Q)\

The pass pro isn't perfect by any means. But the kid HAS to learn how to take a damn check down. Far too often Fournette is in the flat or the TE is open on a shallow crosser and he is looking downfield trying to hit the big one to Conley and Chark. When he hits those, we love that play, but sometimes you just gotta take the 3 yards.

He's a rookie. He can learn and get better. But to put it all on the OL is kinda silly.
Most OLs don't/can't protect for 5+ seconds. When our WRs don't get separation and aren't open, he's gotta get rid of it sometimes.

I love the guy, think he can really develop (but probably with a different coaching staff as ours just gets out coached and out schemed far too often)

Of course it is.

One of the reasons you always see me preach patience is that players have the chance to develop.

Remember Chark in his first year?  Look at Chark now.

Same with Smoot and Bryan.

Why wouldn't it apply to a rookie QB?

Now it's important we not do anything to stymie his growth and development.

Improving the line and weapons around him would help.

Schematic stability is huge.  If we change coordinators and playbooks again, it would make Minshew and everyone around him less certain, more hesitant, and less effective.

I'm curious Bullseye...do you think sitting Minshew (in favor of Foles) will hinder his development? Do you think Gardner can learn a lot from behind the scenes, on the bench--by watching Foles in action. Or do you think it's best for the rookie to play, get the experience, and work through his deficits that way? 

I'll say this - and I pray I'm wrong. I don't think Foles is going to last long behind this line. Minshew may be playing again as early as this season. I hope I'm wrong.

Did it hurt Mahomes sitting a year? Theres no right way. No right time to play a QB. Heres the thing, I really like Minshew, but say we roll with him and have Foles on the bench. How many mistakes before let's play Foles?

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Well he is going to get plenty of time to fix his problems on the bench. Sucks.

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The problem is not minshew. he is jittery in the pocket because of the problem. The same problem we have had since gus came. No O-line able to protect a QB. Fix the o-line and GM15 will not be so jittery.

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Minchew is the future QB of this team. He is very smart and is a hard worker. I think he has a bright future in this league.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?

Yes. He's a rookie. They [BLEEP] up from time to time. It doesn't cancel out how well he's played overall. Next question.

So much this...

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Can Rivers problems be fixed?

News flash no QB plays well every week.

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The problem is not minshew. he is jittery in the pocket because of the problem. The same problem we have had since gus came. No O-line able to protect a QB. Fix the o-line and GM15 will not be so jittery.

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/11/8/...k-analysis

Clean pocket not making throws, not taking the easy underneath stuff. Sacks were mostly on him Sunday.

He's a rookie... that's his problem.
Which can be fixed, with time, and coaching.
Most improvements come in the off season, with QB coaches and studying.

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The problem is not minshew. he is jittery in the pocket because of the problem. The same problem we have had since gus came. No O-line able to protect a QB. Fix the o-line and GM15 will not be so jittery.

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/11/8/...k-analysis

Clean pocket not making throws, not taking the easy underneath stuff. Sacks were mostly on him Sunday.

He's a rookie... that's his problem.
Which can be fixed, with time, and coaching.
Most improvements come in the off season, with QB coaches and studying.

I've been saying for weeks that he holds the ball too long, too often, he evades pressure prematurely, and he misses open guys a bit too often.  

I really think it's almost perfect timing for him to sit and regroup instead of continuing down a path that is forcing him to freelance outside of the intended play design too frequently. 

It's not always his fault - not implying that - but he needs to learn to function in the pocket with more decisiveness. 
He'll be our franchise QB if he improves that way.

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https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/11/8/...k-analysis

Clean pocket not making throws, not taking the easy underneath stuff. Sacks were mostly on him Sunday.

He's a rookie... that's his problem.
Which can be fixed, with time, and coaching.
Most improvements come in the off season, with QB coaches and studying.

I've been saying for weeks that he holds the ball too long, too often, he evades pressure prematurely, and he misses open guys a bit too often.  

I really think it's almost perfect timing for him to sit and regroup instead of continuing down a path that is forcing him to freelance outside of the intended play design too frequently. 

It's not always his fault - not implying that - but he needs to learn to function in the pocket with more decisiveness. 
He'll be our franchise QB if he improves that way.

He wasn't drafted to start this year. People are just so quick to jump on the fresh hot new thing.
I too believe with an off season (or two) he'll be much improved in decision making (timing) and seeing the whole field, knowing when to take the shot and when to take the underneath or flat.

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