Don't forget Bortles money come off the books too.

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You people have no appreciation for what Dareus brings this defense.

Dareus is a really good player, but his cap number for 2020 is $22 million. There is no way we keep him at that number.

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No way you cut Norwell. Competent lineman are needles in the proverbial haystack of the NFL.. I agree he is overpaid but you have to hold on to him or at least try to restructure.

He has not been competent this year or last.

Ridiculous, if he's performing at a clip we cant replace then he's worth the cost. But he probably will restructure anyway.

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His skills elevate the play of Campbell and the linebackers. As long as he can play keeping him should be a priority.

I have a huge appreciation for what Dareus does. Our run game goes to [BLEEP] when he's out.

I just want to pay a rookie to do it instead. And yes,  realize that means at least a marginal drop off for at least some period of time. 

If Dareus wants to do a major restructure, that's great, but... I'm not super optimistic.

Yeah, everyone wants to pay a rookie to give you pro bowl level play at DT. Few can pull it off.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Dareus is a really good player, but his cap number for 2020 is $22 million. There is no way we keep him at that number.

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He has not been competent this year or last.

Ridiculous, if he's performing at a clip we cant replace then he's worth the cost. But he probably will restructure anyway.

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I have a huge appreciation for what Dareus does. Our run game goes to [BLEEP] when he's out.

I just want to pay a rookie to do it instead. And yes,  realize that means at least a marginal drop off for at least some period of time. 

If Dareus wants to do a major restructure, that's great, but... I'm not super optimistic.

Yeah, everyone wants to pay a rookie to give you pro bowl level play at DT. Few can pull it off.

It's much more about choosing a cap casualty based on marginal replaceability. 

A rookie isn't going to come in and play like Dareus out of the gate unless we strike it rich, but getting a NT who is more effective against the run than Abry Jones (who is getting lots of Dareus' NT snaps now) is totally do-able. 
Getting a big run stuffer to gum up the middle and take on dbl teams is likely not too tall an order given our picks.

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I would hope that both Dareus and Norwell will renegotiate and stay on the team. Dumping players and churning the roster is the road to perpetual mediocrity. I'm not against drafting their eventual replacements, but there's no reason not to keep both those guys, if they can be paid a more reasonable amount.

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The only one that makes sense too cut is Lee, who cares how much cap space they have.. who are they going to spend all this extra money on?

Teams can carry forward unused cap space, so it's not just about next year.  The more money you spend now, the less money you have to spend in the future.

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I would hope that both Dareus and Norwell will renegotiate and stay on the team.  Dumping players and churning the roster is the road to perpetual mediocrity.   I'm not against drafting their eventual replacements, but there's no reason not to keep both those guys, if they can be paid a more reasonable amount.

I'd like Dareus to stay, but what are we really willing to spend on him? 

He's due 22.5 MILLION!  That is a BIG number for a single season playing 60% of the def. snaps. 

So - realistically - if you spread that money over two years do you think he'd stay and play for 11 million per season in 2020/2021?  That's a pretty big ask. 
 As of now, he has a 10 million dollar roster bonus coming to him in the Spring before the draft.  They'll have to do something by mid-March one way or the other. 

This is why I'm leaning toward finding a NT in the draft, but if they can convince him to re-work it I'm totally on board.  

If they keep him, they've got to cut Abry Jones, Swaim, Lee and then take a really hard look at Ryan and Linder.  The LB corps has been craptastic, so Ryan is not an easy cut to me and Linder would be good to keep for continuity's sake amongst our QBs.  But one of them may have to go.

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Linder will retire a Jag. But I’d definitely try to keep Dareus. He changes our whole defense when he’s in. Imagine him in the playoffs when teams want to ground and pound.

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Linder will retire a Jag. But I’d definitely try to keep Dareus. He changes our whole defense when he’s in. Imagine him in the playoffs when teams want to ground and pound.

More like remember how we get grounded and pounded when he's not there.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I love Dareus and want to keep him. He signed that massive contract on the back of 28.5 sacks over four seasons. He’s 9 sacks since. He’s good against the run, but he’s not even the best on the team (Campbell). If he’s willing to cut the contract in half, then I’m all for keeping him, but I can’t picture him forgoing the chance at another signing bonus elsewhere.

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I would hope that both Dareus and Norwell will renegotiate and stay on the team.  Dumping players and churning the roster is the road to perpetual mediocrity.   I'm not against drafting their eventual replacements, but there's no reason not to keep both those guys, if they can be paid a more reasonable amount.

I'd like Dareus to stay, but what are we really willing to spend on him? 

He's due 22.5 MILLION!  That is a BIG number for a single season playing 60% of the def. snaps. 

So - realistically - if you spread that money over two years do you think he'd stay and play for 11 million per season in 2020/2021?  That's a pretty big ask. 
 As of now, he has a 10 million dollar roster bonus coming to him in the Spring before the draft.  They'll have to do something by mid-March one way or the other. 

This is why I'm leaning toward finding a NT in the draft, but if they can convince him to re-work it I'm totally on board.  

If they keep him, they've got to cut Abry Jones, Swaim, Lee and then take a really hard look at Ryan and Linder.  The LB corps has been craptastic, so Ryan is not an easy cut to me and Linder would be good to keep for continuity's sake amongst our QBs.  But one of them may have to go.

Agreed. I don't wanna lose Dareus, but even if he re-negotiates, he's gonna cost a lot. We need to find a DT in the draft.

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I think we do. 

I don’t think he brings $22M-worth to it though.

His skills elevate the play of Campbell and the linebackers. As long as he can play keeping him should be a priority.

No way. Very good DT talent in this draft.
Dareus is the easiest cut to make with that contract.

If he's willing to restructure I'd love to keep him.

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I think Lee and Swaim are gone.

Also: Our run D hasn't been great this year, so has Dareus really had that great of an impact?
And I don't think he elevates the play of Campbell or the players around him much.

Dude is talented but not 22 mil talented.

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His skills elevate the play of Campbell and the linebackers. As long as he can play keeping him should be a priority.

No way. Very good DT talent in this draft.
Dareus is the easiest cut to make with that contract.

If he's willing to restructure I'd love to keep him.

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I think Lee and Swaim are gone.

Also: Our run D hasn't been great this year, so has Dareus really had that great of an impact?
And I don't think he elevates the play of Campbell or the players around him much.

Dude is talented but not 22 mil talented.

a. he played with one arm the first 3 or 4 games he was back from injury, and then tore the groin/abdomen muscle. 
He made a difference vs the run despite that and would have made more if healthy. 

b. He elevates guys around him because he's a focus of double teams and he ties them up effectively

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No way. Very good DT talent in this draft.
Dareus is the easiest cut to make with that contract.

If he's willing to restructure I'd love to keep him.

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I think Lee and Swaim are gone.

Also: Our run D hasn't been great this year, so has Dareus really had that great of an impact?
And I don't think he elevates the play of Campbell or the players around him much.

Dude is talented but not 22 mil talented.

a. he played with one arm the first 3 or 4 games he was back from injury, and then tore the groin/abdomen muscle. 
He made a difference vs the run despite that and would have made more if healthy. 

b. He elevates guys around him because he's a focus of double teams and he ties them up effectively

I'm not saying the dude was trash or not good. 
Just not worth the price tag.
If he's willing to restructure I'd want him because he will most certainly be better than a rookie and he did have a marked improvement once the trade was made for him in 2017.


Campbell and Yan and Allen still perform well post Dareus IR and our LBers were liabilities pre Dareus IR.
And the injury concerns don't exactly favor the idea of keeping him around at that price either

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No brainer to cut: Lee

No brainer to keep: Hayden, Bouye, Linder, Jones

Keep if they re-structure: Campbell, Dareus

Most likely keep: Ryan

Most likely cut: Swaim

Hardest decision: Norwell (has way underperformed his salary, but a huge amount of dead money.

How do you figure Ryan is "most likely to keep"? He sounds like an easy cut to me unless he comes in now that he's back and plays balls out. 

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'02

No brainer to cut: Lee

No brainer to keep: Hayden, Bouye, Linder, Jones

Keep if they re-structure: Campbell, Dareus

Most likely keep: Ryan

Most likely cut: Swaim

Hardest decision: Norwell (has way underperformed his salary, but a huge amount of dead money.

How do you figure Ryan is "most likely to keep"? He sounds like an easy cut to me unless he comes in now that he's back and plays balls out. 

His price tag isn't prohibitive and, if healthy, he's a solid linebacker who can provide solid depth at the position.

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I just did a little research into the DT market on spotrac.

I may change my tune slightly on Dareus after looking at the numbers for current DTs in the league around his age and production. While the cap hit is a high number, his actual contract is not bad.
I would still like him to restructure or possibly extend his contract to help the teams cap situation, perhaps with some magic worked by Idzik with some signing bonus or moving dollars around if possible.

But I no longer think he is an easy cut just to clear that cap space.

By cutting Lee, Swaim, Ryan, Cann, and Jones we save 21.8 mil and puts us in the black.

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I just did a little research into the DT market on spotrac.

I may change my tune slightly on Dareus after looking at the numbers for current DTs in the league around his age and production. While the cap hit is a high number, his actual contract is not bad.
I would still like him to restructure or possibly extend his contract to help the teams cap situation, perhaps with some magic worked by Idzik with some signing bonus or moving dollars around if possible.

But I no longer think he is an easy cut just to clear that cap space.

By cutting Lee, Swaim, Ryan, Cann, and Jones we save 21.8 mil and puts us in the black.

Thanks for seeing my side of it.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I just did a little research into the DT market on spotrac.

I may change my tune slightly on Dareus after looking at the numbers for current DTs in the league around his age and production. While the cap hit is a high number, his actual contract is not bad.
I would still like him to restructure or possibly extend his contract to help the teams cap situation, perhaps with some magic worked by Idzik with some signing bonus or moving dollars around if possible.

But I no longer think he is an easy cut just to clear that cap space.

By cutting Lee, Swaim, Ryan, Cann, and Jones we save 21.8 mil and puts us in the black.

I'm not sure I understand. His contract ends after next season, so his cap hit is all that matters. He's at $22.5M which is behind only Aaron Donald and Fletcher Cox (from what I could tell). Both players are significantly better than Dareus. Every other decent DT had a cap hit between $10-15M, which is where I see his value.

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I just did a little research into the DT market on spotrac.

I may change my tune slightly on Dareus after looking at the numbers for current DTs in the league around his age and production. While the cap hit is a high number, his actual contract is not bad.
I would still like him to restructure or possibly extend his contract to help the teams cap situation, perhaps with some magic worked by Idzik with some signing bonus or moving dollars around if possible.

But I no longer think he is an easy cut just to clear that cap space.

By cutting Lee, Swaim, Ryan, Cann, and Jones we save 21.8 mil and puts us in the black.

Dareus is essentially just a run stuffer at this point in his career and while a good one that's the easiest position to replace on defense. He'd want to be restructured to a fairly low amount to make it worth it

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I think Campbell might retire after this year.

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Let's Get Em!!!! Go Jags!

How do you figure Ryan is "most likely to keep"? He sounds like an easy cut to me unless he comes in now that he's back and plays balls out. 

His price tag isn't prohibitive and, if healthy, he's a solid linebacker who can provide solid depth at the position.

If he's not starting, $6 mil is rather prohibitive given the Jags need to extend key players.

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'02