Wonder if Ramsey still thinks he is trash.

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The Cowboys defense is making this guy look like a god. I have a feeling he can be really good for a long time. Time will tell.

Another great take, this is getting too easy..

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So, is he good now or he is still Bortles 2017? 

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Best QB out of that class

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Hey look a QB that got better in year 3. Good for him. Went to work with some old pros and honed his craft.

He was trash, he improved in year 2 to okay and year 3 is looking really good, 3 games in. Yesterday was fairly impressive, considering he actually faced a good defense.

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Best QB out of that class

I've been as big of a critic of Jackson as anyone but I dunno if Allen is clearly better than him at this point. But I'll say 1a and 1b of that class, then Mayfield and Darnold and Rosen.


I'm never afraid to admit when I'm wrong.... Rudolph was "my guy" in that draft lol

Come to think of it... of all the college guys I tend to "scout" wrong, it's usually QBs.

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Best QB out of that class

I've been as big of a critic of Jackson as anyone but I dunno if Allen is clearly better than him at this point. But I'll say 1a and 1b of that class, then Mayfield and Darnold and Rosen.


I'm never afraid to admit when I'm wrong.... Rudolph was "my guy" in that draft lol

Come to think of it... of all the college guys I tend to "scout" wrong, it's usually QBs.

I liked Rudolph alot as well and Jackson has played great, Bal. had 12 Pro Bowlers last year and I think mist QBs would be good with that team.  Allen's oline isn't that good, RBs average at best, TEs are ok, they now have Diggs but its amazing what he is able to do with what he has had to work with.

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Hey look a QB that got better in year 3. Good for him. Went to work with some old pros and honed his craft.

He was trash, he improved in year 2 to okay and year 3 is looking really good, 3 games in. Yesterday was fairly impressive, considering he actually faced a good defense.

This is kind of the point here. 

He wasn't trash. 

He was in need of development and acclimation to the league. His raw skill throwing the football coming out placed him in the "not trash" category from the get. But it was raw. 

The folks eager to jump on players that need time to acclimate and call them trash in year one are the reason these threads get bumped. It's premature hyperbole.

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.

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Hey look a QB that got better in year 3. Good for him. Went to work with some old pros and honed his craft.

He was trash, he improved in year 2 to okay and year 3 is looking really good, 3 games in. Yesterday was fairly impressive, considering he actually faced a good defense.

This is kind of the point here. 

He wasn't trash. 

He was in need of development and acclimation to the league. His raw skill throwing the football coming out placed him in the "not trash" category from the get. But it was raw. 

The folks eager to jump on players that need time to acclimate and call them trash in year one are the reason these threads get bumped. It's premature hyperbole.

I'll go a step further and say that regardless of the end result, guys like him would have washed out in a place like Duval. First, we don't have a great track record when it comes to developing raw talent, and after Gabbert and Bort, like farts anyone on the team would have rallied behind a project guy like Allen.

I'm glad he's doing well in a town that loves their team, regardless of who is under center. That was the perfect place for him to land.

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Let's not mess it up again, take the Valley kid and call it a day.

I wanted him. 

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Hey look a QB that got better in year 3. Good for him. Went to work with some old pros and honed his craft.

He was trash, he improved in year 2 to okay and year 3 is looking really good, 3 games in. Yesterday was fairly impressive, considering he actually faced a good defense.

This is kind of the point here. 

He wasn't trash. 

He was in need of development and acclimation to the league. His raw skill throwing the football coming out placed him in the "not trash" category from the get. But it was raw. 

The folks eager to jump on players that need time to acclimate and call them trash in year one are the reason these threads get bumped. It's premature hyperbole.

I disagree. His rookie year (and even his final college season) I didn't see a good QB at all.
Canon arm, inaccurate, couldn't read a defense, one read and run the ball.

Jamarcus Russel was another QB with a canon arm, he was trash and never worked to get better. Only got fatter.
He was trash, and stayed that way.
Allen was trash and worked to get better. Premature hyperbole? Nah man, we see top 10 QBs come in and look the part right away all the time, even if they have some rookie QB issues to work through.
I guess if you have an issue with the analogy of "trash" that's fine. He wasn't good. He was down right bad.
Kinda like Bortles, some would say he was trash. He worked at it... probably became slight better than trash but never really good.

I don't know why it has to be a problem for people to have an opinion about the play of a player and then that player improve and all of a sudden the 3 year old opinion is somehow not valid.
If I was saying he's still trash I mean, that would be disingenuous sure.
And I still think digging up old threads to bump some I told you so nonsense is petty. I wouldn't dig it up had he not improved to be like "Where all the Allen lovers now?!" lol It's silly.

I think if you're drafting a QB in the top 10 he should be good before year 3 really. And really, we're 3 games into his year 3 so let's not crown him anything yet.
But as I said... he worked and got better. That's good for him and for the Bills.
People pretending like they knew all along he was gonna be some great QB is laughable. Because after his rookie year, it didn't look good at all. (52% comp, 10/12 TD/INT) Was also sub 60% his 2nd year, though he did improve his TD to INT ratio. There were plenty of folks loving them some Sam Darnold... and he hasn't gotten better at all.
But Kyler Murray looked good as a rookie. Hell, even Minshew as a 6th rounder looked good at times, though jury is still out whether he'll truly be a long term fixture. Watson another QB looked better early.

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This is kind of the point here. 

He wasn't trash. 

He was in need of development and acclimation to the league. His raw skill throwing the football coming out placed him in the "not trash" category from the get. But it was raw. 

The folks eager to jump on players that need time to acclimate and call them trash in year one are the reason these threads get bumped. It's premature hyperbole.

I disagree. His rookie year (and even his final college season) I didn't see a good QB at all.
Canon arm, inaccurate, couldn't read a defense, one read and run the ball.

Jamarcus Russel was another QB with a canon arm, he was trash and never worked to get better. Only got fatter.
He was trash, and stayed that way.
Allen was trash and worked to get better. Premature hyperbole? Nah man, we see top 10 QBs come in and look the part right away all the time, even if they have some rookie QB issues to work through.
I guess if you have an issue with the analogy of "trash" that's fine. He wasn't good. He was down right bad.
Kinda like Bortles, some would say he was trash. He worked at it... probably became slight better than trash but never really good.

I don't know why it has to be a problem for people to have an opinion about the play of a player and then that player improve and all of a sudden the 3 year old opinion is somehow not valid.
If I was saying he's still trash I mean, that would be disingenuous sure.
And I still think digging up old threads to bump some I told you so nonsense is petty. I wouldn't dig it up had he not improved to be like "Where all the Allen lovers now?!" lol It's silly.

I think if you're drafting a QB in the top 10 he should be good before year 3 really. And really, we're 3 games into his year 3 so let's not crown him anything yet.
But as I said... he worked and got better. That's good for him and for the Bills.
People pretending like they knew all along he was gonna be some great QB is laughable. Because after his rookie year, it didn't look good at all. (52% comp, 10/12 TD/INT) Was also sub 60% his 2nd year, though he did improve his TD to INT ratio. There were plenty of folks loving them some Sam Darnold... and he hasn't gotten better at all.
But Kyler Murray looked good as a rookie. Hell, even Minshew as a 6th rounder looked good at times, though jury is still out whether he'll truly be a long term fixture. Watson another QB looked better early.

If i draft a QB im not drafting one for who will be the best their rookie year, i want the one who i feel will have the best career.  He had a typical rookie year as a QB and had one of the worst offenses around him.  Some QBs whe drafted are in a better position to suceed with weapons/ a good iline and coaches etc., he had no weapons.  He has improved each year which is exactly what you want and expect out of your QB. This is why this thread was made btw.

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...ht=Jackson

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I disagree. His rookie year (and even his final college season) I didn't see a good QB at all.
Canon arm, inaccurate, couldn't read a defense, one read and run the ball.

Jamarcus Russel was another QB with a canon arm, he was trash and never worked to get better. Only got fatter.
He was trash, and stayed that way.
Allen was trash and worked to get better. Premature hyperbole? Nah man, we see top 10 QBs come in and look the part right away all the time, even if they have some rookie QB issues to work through.
I guess if you have an issue with the analogy of "trash" that's fine. He wasn't good. He was down right bad.
Kinda like Bortles, some would say he was trash. He worked at it... probably became slight better than trash but never really good.

I don't know why it has to be a problem for people to have an opinion about the play of a player and then that player improve and all of a sudden the 3 year old opinion is somehow not valid.
If I was saying he's still trash I mean, that would be disingenuous sure.
And I still think digging up old threads to bump some I told you so nonsense is petty. I wouldn't dig it up had he not improved to be like "Where all the Allen lovers now?!" lol It's silly.

I think if you're drafting a QB in the top 10 he should be good before year 3 really. And really, we're 3 games into his year 3 so let's not crown him anything yet.
But as I said... he worked and got better. That's good for him and for the Bills.
People pretending like they knew all along he was gonna be some great QB is laughable. Because after his rookie year, it didn't look good at all. (52% comp, 10/12 TD/INT) Was also sub 60% his 2nd year, though he did improve his TD to INT ratio. There were plenty of folks loving them some Sam Darnold... and he hasn't gotten better at all.
But Kyler Murray looked good as a rookie. Hell, even Minshew as a 6th rounder looked good at times, though jury is still out whether he'll truly be a long term fixture. Watson another QB looked better early.

If i draft a QB im not drafting one for who will be the best their rookie year, i want the one who i feel will have the best career.  He had a typical rookie year as a QB and had one of the worst offenses around him.  Some QBs whe drafted are in a better position to suceed with weapons/ a good iline and coaches etc., he had no weapons.  He has improved each year which is exactly what you want and expect out of your QB.  This is why this thread was made btw.

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...ht=Jackson

I get that and that's fine.

But as a rookie, it didn't even look like he was going to develop. Most times a first rounder, especially a top ten guy, comes in and shows more flashes or has "moments". Allen offered almost nothing of the sort as a rookie.

Even last year, while improved, he was less than impressive most games. This year he's started out very good.
I get that he didn't have star weapons but he's had a very good defense to lean on for his entire time. Darnold hasn't been given much, are we giving him a pass in year 3 or until they give him a Stefon Diggs type WR? 
Yes Jackson certainly has had more around him, I've been very critical and skeptical of his being crowned the next big thing too. He didn't look great vs KC the other night and I still think they rely on his legs too much. And some guys get crap to work with, like Darnold. And some guys are given better situations, like Mahomes (who also got to sit his rookie year).

If THIS version of Allen was coming out of college, I would have been much more inclined to like the hype. It wasn't though, so I think the criticism was still warranted back then.

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If i draft a QB im not drafting one for who will be the best their rookie year, i want the one who i feel will have the best career.  He had a typical rookie year as a QB and had one of the worst offenses around him.  Some QBs whe drafted are in a better position to suceed with weapons/ a good iline and coaches etc., he had no weapons.  He has improved each year which is exactly what you want and expect out of your QB.  This is why this thread was made btw.

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...ht=Jackson

I get that and that's fine.

But as a rookie, it didn't even look like he was going to develop. Most times a first rounder, especially a top ten guy, comes in and shows more flashes or has "moments". Allen offered almost nothing of the sort as a rookie.

Even last year, while improved, he was less than impressive most games. This year he's started out very good.
I get that he didn't have star weapons but he's had a very good defense to lean on for his entire time. Darnold hasn't been given much, are we giving him a pass in year 3 or until they give him a Stefon Diggs type WR? 
Yes Jackson certainly has had more around him, I've been very critical and skeptical of his being crowned the next big thing too. He didn't look great vs KC the other night and I still think they rely on his legs too much. And some guys get crap to work with, like Darnold. And some guys are given better situations, like Mahomes (who also got to sit his rookie year).

If THIS version of Allen was coming out of college, I would have been much more inclined to like the hype. It wasn't though, so I think the criticism was still warranted back then.

I disagree, he should flashes his rookie year which is what you want to see and he improved last year and even more this year and he had all the tools.  I didnt like Donald coming out, USC players are almost always overrated just their team was except Carson Palmer.  I thought Leinhart was gonna be good coming out but it just showed once again how overrated they are

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I agree with you on Jackson though, I think as he get older and loses his speed and running ability he will be a backup. I just don't feel like he is able to beat you with without the threat of the run

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I agree with you on Jackson though, I think as he get older and loses his speed and running ability he will be a backup.  I just don't feel like he is able to beat you with without the threat of the run

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

So, is he good now or he is still Bortles 2017? 

Oh look, someone can't read (again!)

I explicitly made that statement with the caveat of the words: "right now". At the time, his stats were rather pedestrian.

But again, you knew that and chose to try and take a post out of context. 

No wonder your everyone's "favorite" poster here 

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So, is he good now or he is still Bortles 2017? 

Oh look, someone can't read (again!)

I explicitly made that statement with the caveat of the words: "right now". At the time, his stats were rather pedestrian.

But again, you knew that and chose to try and take a post out of context. 

No wonder your everyone's "favorite" poster here 

What was my question again? read it again.

Keep crying though, it is amusing.

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Josh Allen is super fun to watch. The throws he has made against VEGAS RAAAIDAAAAHS... unbelievable!

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