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After Raiders Win we are pick #8 - Now back to #7

#81

With where we are picking now, I have us taking......

1. Jerry Jeudy, WR, Alabama
1. Tyler Biadasz, C/OG, Wisconsin
2. Josh Jones, OT, Houston
3. Jaylon Johnson, CB, Utah
4. Logan Wilson, LB, Wyoming
5. Harrison Bryant, TE, FAU
6. John Penisini, NT, Utah
6. Jared Mayden, S, Alabama
7. Cale Garrett, LB, Missouri
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#82

(12-30-2019, 05:06 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: With where we are picking now, I have us taking......

1. Jerry Jeudy, WR, Alabama
1. Tyler Biadasz, C/OG, Wisconsin
2. Josh Jones, OT, Houston
3. Jaylon Johnson, CB, Utah
4. Logan Wilson, LB, Wyoming
5. Harrison Bryant, TE, FAU
6. John Penisini, NT, Utah
6. Jared Mayden, S, Alabama
7. Cale Garrett, LB, Missouri
Huh... that's weird. What about this?


https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...573&page=2

OT's especially LT, are the most important pieces of any team IMO. If you can't open running lanes and protect the QB, your offense is going nowhere. I believe you MUST find the best of the best, when it comes to OT's. That means using 1st round picks on them. Just look at the NFL. There are 32 teams in the NFL and barely half of them have adequate starting OT's. When you use 2nd rounders on OT's, you are drafting guys who 32 other teams thought weren't good enough to be their OT, even though starting OT's and QB's are the rarest of the rare to find. IMO, that is kind of ignoring the position. Remember who the Jags first draft pick in history was? It was LT Tony Boselli and he was drafted #2 overall. He turned out to be our best draft pick in franchise history. When he was here, we were consistent playoff contenders. We need to get back to that ideology and stop believing we can just draft so-so OT's in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
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#83

(12-30-2019, 04:22 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(12-30-2019, 03:29 AM)JagsFanClubOfMD Wrote: The Jaguars haven’t won the final game of the season since 2011. Also, I honestly don’t think that not picking early enough has been an issue for this team.

Coaching has and thanks to this meaningless win, that probably won't get resolved.


I understand this point, but that isn’t what this discussion is about. We of course don’t know if Marrone will be back next year or not. Even if he is, we won’t know if he would have been whether or not we won yesterday. I wanted Marrone and Caldwell fired after last season. I want them both gone now, but we are talking about losing a few spots in draft position, which I honestly don’t think is a big deal. Maybe the last good player in this entire draft will be taken at 8, but the odds are against it. Also, the idea that “they do this every year” is absolutely false. Honestly, what players have we even missed out on because of “meaningless” wins recently?
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#84

(12-30-2019, 07:04 AM)Senor Fantastico Wrote:
(12-30-2019, 05:06 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: With where we are picking now, I have us taking......

1. Jerry Jeudy, WR, Alabama
1. Tyler Biadasz, C/OG, Wisconsin
2. Josh Jones, OT, Houston
3. Jaylon Johnson, CB, Utah
4. Logan Wilson, LB, Wyoming
5. Harrison Bryant, TE, FAU
6. John Penisini, NT, Utah
6. Jared Mayden, S, Alabama
7. Cale Garrett, LB, Missouri
Huh... that's weird. What about this?


https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...573&page=2

OT's especially LT, are the most important pieces of any team IMO. If you can't open running lanes and protect the QB, your offense is going nowhere. I believe you MUST find the best of the best, when it comes to OT's. That means using 1st round picks on them. Just look at the NFL. There are 32 teams in the NFL and barely half of them have adequate starting OT's. When you use 2nd rounders on OT's, you are drafting guys who 32 other teams thought weren't good enough to be their OT, even though starting OT's and QB's are the rarest of the rare to find. IMO, that is kind of ignoring the position. Remember who the Jags first draft pick in history was? It was LT Tony Boselli and he was drafted #2 overall. He turned out to be our best draft pick in franchise history. When he was here, we were consistent playoff contenders. We need to get back to that ideology and stop believing we can just draft so-so OT's in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I still agree with that ideology 100%, but with the win on Sunday, I have both Thomas and Wirfs gone by the time we pick (to the Giants and the Cardinals.) That's the only two LT's I have first round grades on. You can't very well draft a LT in round 1, if the grade isn't there. My next two highest rated LT's are Josh Jones and Trey Adams. They are projected to go in round 2 and that's where I have us taking an OT. I'm certainly not gonna reach for one of those guys and pass up the best interior O-Lineman in the draft (Biadasz.) We have needs at LT and OG and I'm filling them with the best available players IMO. Since there was no good LT's available in round 1, I have no choice.
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#85

Gonna be fun watching olinematters evolve his stance this offseason as everyone and their mother falls in love with Wills Jr.
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#86

(12-30-2019, 02:16 PM)Upper Wrote: Gonna be fun watching olinematters evolve his stance this offseason as everyone and their mother falls in love with Wills Jr.

It's not gonna change on Wills. He has never played LT. If he has never played LT, I can't accurately judge him as a LT. As much as I may dislike Taylor, it is unrealistic for me to think we're gonna move on from him after one season, so we don't need a RT. Unless something unexpected happens with Taylor, Wills is not even on my radar and never will be.
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#87

That's exceedingly myopic.
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#88

(12-30-2019, 07:04 AM)Senor Fantastico Wrote:
(12-30-2019, 05:06 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: With where we are picking now, I have us taking......

1. Jerry Jeudy, WR, Alabama
1. Tyler Biadasz, C/OG, Wisconsin
2. Josh Jones, OT, Houston
3. Jaylon Johnson, CB, Utah
4. Logan Wilson, LB, Wyoming
5. Harrison Bryant, TE, FAU
6. John Penisini, NT, Utah
6. Jared Mayden, S, Alabama
7. Cale Garrett, LB, Missouri
Huh... that's weird. What about this?


https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...573&page=2

OT's especially LT, are the most important pieces of any team IMO. If you can't open running lanes and protect the QB, your offense is going nowhere. I believe you MUST find the best of the best, when it comes to OT's. That means using 1st round picks on them. Just look at the NFL. There are 32 teams in the NFL and barely half of them have adequate starting OT's. When you use 2nd rounders on OT's, you are drafting guys who 32 other teams thought weren't good enough to be their OT, even though starting OT's and QB's are the rarest of the rare to find. IMO, that is kind of ignoring the position. Remember who the Jags first draft pick in history was? It was LT Tony Boselli and he was drafted #2 overall. He turned out to be our best draft pick in franchise history. When he was here, we were consistent playoff contenders. We need to get back to that ideology and stop believing we can just draft so-so OT's in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
It is easier to find a very good guard or center in the 2nd round than a left tackle. Whether it's Dave Caldwell (please, no) or his replacement, one of the first decisions to be made is whether Cam Robinson has what it takes to play left tackle. If the answer is "no", this position should be addressed in round 1. Austin Jackson's stock dropped after his poor performance against Iowa, however this may work to the Jaguars' advantage. If he does come out this year, he would be a strong candidate to be taken with the 9th pick in round 1. Robinson could then be moved to the interior where he seems to be a better fit. Another interior lineman could be taken later in the draft. The Jags need to address both lines so Javon Kinlaw would be my choice with pick 20. It's probably about 50-50 that he'll be available at this spot depending on how his workouts go. With both lines addressed in round 1, the Jags can hopefully find a middle linebacker, cornerback or tight end in rounds 2 and 3. Wide receiver is one of the deepest positions in this draft so I'd wait until the 4th round to address this. Chark has what it takes to be a true number 1 receiver so taking Jeudy or Lamb in round 1 would not be my preference when there are so many greater needs.
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#89

(12-30-2019, 02:07 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(12-30-2019, 07:04 AM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: Huh... that's weird. What about this?


https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...573&page=2

OT's especially LT, are the most important pieces of any team IMO. If you can't open running lanes and protect the QB, your offense is going nowhere. I believe you MUST find the best of the best, when it comes to OT's. That means using 1st round picks on them. Just look at the NFL. There are 32 teams in the NFL and barely half of them have adequate starting OT's. When you use 2nd rounders on OT's, you are drafting guys who 32 other teams thought weren't good enough to be their OT, even though starting OT's and QB's are the rarest of the rare to find. IMO, that is kind of ignoring the position. Remember who the Jags first draft pick in history was? It was LT Tony Boselli and he was drafted #2 overall. He turned out to be our best draft pick in franchise history. When he was here, we were consistent playoff contenders. We need to get back to that ideology and stop believing we can just draft so-so OT's in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I still agree with that ideology 100%, but with the win on Sunday, I have both Thomas and Wirfs gone by the time we pick (to the Giants and the Cardinals.) That's the only two LT's I have first round grades on. You can't very well draft a LT in round 1, if the grade isn't there. My next two highest rated LT's are Josh Jones and Trey Adams. They are projected to go in round 2 and that's where I have us taking an OT. I'm certainly not gonna reach for one of those guys and pass up the best interior O-Lineman in the draft (Biadasz.) We have needs at LT and OG and I'm filling them with the best available players IMO. Since there was no good LT's available in round 1, I have no choice.

So your ideology is that OT's must be taken in round 1, and spending a 2nd round pick on them is tantamount to ignoring the position, except you throw all that out if OT isn't BAP at your round 1 pick and then it's cool to grab one in the 2nd round if that's where the next highest one is projected. 

That's a very handy ideology.
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#90
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2019, 04:37 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(12-30-2019, 02:33 PM)Upper Wrote: That's exceedingly myopic.

You call it myopic, I call it smart.

(12-30-2019, 03:28 PM)jaglou53 Wrote:
(12-30-2019, 07:04 AM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: Huh... that's weird. What about this?


https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...573&page=2

OT's especially LT, are the most important pieces of any team IMO. If you can't open running lanes and protect the QB, your offense is going nowhere. I believe you MUST find the best of the best, when it comes to OT's. That means using 1st round picks on them. Just look at the NFL. There are 32 teams in the NFL and barely half of them have adequate starting OT's. When you use 2nd rounders on OT's, you are drafting guys who 32 other teams thought weren't good enough to be their OT, even though starting OT's and QB's are the rarest of the rare to find. IMO, that is kind of ignoring the position. Remember who the Jags first draft pick in history was? It was LT Tony Boselli and he was drafted #2 overall. He turned out to be our best draft pick in franchise history. When he was here, we were consistent playoff contenders. We need to get back to that ideology and stop believing we can just draft so-so OT's in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
It is easier to find a very good guard or center in the 2nd round than a left tackle. Whether it's Dave Caldwell (please, no) or his replacement, one of the first decisions to be made is whether Cam Robinson has what it takes to play left tackle. If the answer is "no", this position should be addressed in round 1. Austin Jackson's stock dropped after his poor performance against Iowa, however this may work to the Jaguars' advantage. If he does come out this year, he would be a strong candidate to be taken with the 9th pick in round 1. Robinson could then be moved to the interior where he seems to be a better fit. Another interior lineman could be taken later in the draft. The Jags need to address both lines so Javon Kinlaw would be my choice with pick 20. It's probably about 50-50 that he'll be available at this spot depending on how his workouts go. With both lines addressed in round 1, the Jags can hopefully find a middle linebacker, cornerback or tight end in rounds 2 and 3. Wide receiver is one of the deepest positions in this draft so I'd wait until the 4th round to address this. Chark has what it takes to be a true number 1 receiver so taking Jeudy or Lamb in round 1 would not be my preference when there are so many greater needs.

I agree, but Austin Jackson looked really bad in that Iowa game. Bad enough that it made me think he probably needs to go back to school. I don't wanna take a WR at #9, but it that position represents the BAP, that's what I draft. It's not like having a receiving corps of Chark, Jeudy and Westbrook would be a bad thing. It may not be a huge need, but I do think Jeudy could make our offense much better.
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#91

(12-30-2019, 03:44 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote:
(12-30-2019, 02:07 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: I still agree with that ideology 100%, but with the win on Sunday, I have both Thomas and Wirfs gone by the time we pick (to the Giants and the Cardinals.) That's the only two LT's I have first round grades on. You can't very well draft a LT in round 1, if the grade isn't there. My next two highest rated LT's are Josh Jones and Trey Adams. They are projected to go in round 2 and that's where I have us taking an OT. I'm certainly not gonna reach for one of those guys and pass up the best interior O-Lineman in the draft (Biadasz.) We have needs at LT and OG and I'm filling them with the best available players IMO. Since there was no good LT's available in round 1, I have no choice.

So your ideology is that OT's must be taken in round 1, and spending a 2nd round pick on them is tantamount to ignoring the position, except you throw all that out if OT isn't BAP at your round 1 pick and then it's cool to grab one in the 2nd round if that's where the next highest one is projected. 

That's a very handy ideology.

What I've been saying is that you never turn down a chance to get a franchise LT in round 1, if you don't have one. If there's not one there when you're up to pick though, you don't reach for one. If there is a franchise LT on the board in round one and you pass on them to draft another position, because there should be other decent LT's left on the board in round 2 (i.e. Cam Robinson), that is the wrong approach. That is what we have been doing. Had we been picking #5 or #6 in this coming draft, maybe we'd have a shot at a franchise LT, but as it stands now, I see no way that Thomas or Wirfs falls to us. It's a different situation altogether. You have to see how the board falls and make adjustments.
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#92

Now that we know that staff is coming back. We can cross out drafting a quarterback. The 2 first rounders will be a offense and defensive lineman.
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#93

(12-31-2019, 12:45 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: Now that we know that staff is coming back. We can cross out drafting a quarterback. The 2 first rounders will be a offense and defensive lineman.
I think there's a good chance it'll be Derrick Brown or Isiah Simmons at #9 and Joey Biadasz or Alex Leatherwood at #20.

I can live with that.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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