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Lamping: "We've done a crappy job of winning"

#21

(01-15-2020, 03:45 PM)Jags Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 02:33 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: Belichick was proven when he went to NE?
And quite honestly, I have no idea how much we pay our staff compared to other teams.

Yeah, he had a 36-44 record and 1 winning season with the browns over 5 years. He certainly wasn’t a proven coach at the time of his hiring in NE.

You need to educate yourself.  Entering the 1995 season, the Browns, coached by Bill Belichick, were coming off a playoff season in which the team finished 11–5 and advanced to the second round of the playoffs. Sports Illustrated predicted that the Browns would represent the AFC in Super Bowl XXX at the end of the season.  

The Browns announced the move during the following season and the team fell apart.  In the meantime Belichick had eyed up Ray Lewis for his 1st round draft pick but was let go prior to the draft.  The Ravens team was originally built primarily on Belichick's findings.   
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#22

(01-15-2020, 12:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 12:44 PM)JackCity Wrote: Pretty illogical stance from Lamping if he thinks one winning year can accurately represent the market at its peak

I think he's simply referring to the potential of this market compared to other NFL markets. And more specifically why they need to continue efforts for additional revenue streams to make the Jaguars revenue comparable to the league average.

 He's just promoting the need for the downtown development around the stadium and sowing the seeds for the two games in London - all while reminding us that some owners would simply look to move to a larger market opposed to cultivating and augmenting the current one.

He used a one year sample of winning as evidence for the market being not able to support a winning team. 

That seems extremely illogical to me. If he said it after a 5 years of even slightly competitive football maybe we could draw actual conclusions
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#23

(01-15-2020, 05:26 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 12:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: I think he's simply referring to the potential of this market compared to other NFL markets. And more specifically why they need to continue efforts for additional revenue streams to make the Jaguars revenue comparable to the league average.

 He's just promoting the need for the downtown development around the stadium and sowing the seeds for the two games in London - all while reminding us that some owners would simply look to move to a larger market opposed to cultivating and augmenting the current one.

He used a one year sample of winning as evidence for the market being not able to support a winning team. 

That seems extremely illogical to me. If he said it after a 5 years of even slightly competitive football maybe we could draw actual conclusions

Have you ever watched any of his presentations from the "state of the franchise" events? 

He says this at every single one of them. He illustrates it with 17 graphs and pie charts. 
Even when this team is winning and selling out games their revenue projects to be below the league average because our ticket prices are so low. 

They've been ramping up this point year after year as they prepare to ask for higher ticket prices, a new stadium, downtown development subsidies, and an additional UK game.  

O just see it as more of the same old talk from Lamping trying to drum up justification for charging more and now shipping off another game.
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#24

(01-15-2020, 05:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 05:26 PM)JackCity Wrote: He used a one year sample of winning as evidence for the market being not able to support a winning team. 

That seems extremely illogical to me. If he said it after a 5 years of even slightly competitive football maybe we could draw actual conclusions

Have you ever watched any of his presentations from the "state of the franchise" events? 

He says this at every single one of them. He illustrates it with 17 graphs and pie charts. 
Even when this team is winning and selling out games their revenue projects to be below the league average because our ticket prices are so low. 

They've been ramping up this point year after year as they prepare to ask for higher ticket prices, a new stadium, downtown development subsidies, and an additional UK game.  

O just see it as more of the same old talk from Lamping trying to drum up justification for charging more and now shipping off another game.

Yeh I've seen  most of them

Their sample of winning games and it's ability to make a sustainable franchise is based on either the 90s era or the literal one year sample this decade

Revenue below league average is still very profitable. So what they are really saying is even if we won we won't make as much as money as we want...and they're saying it under a historically poor losing ownership
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#25

(01-15-2020, 05:43 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 05:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Have you ever watched any of his presentations from the "state of the franchise" events? 

He says this at every single one of them. He illustrates it with 17 graphs and pie charts. 
Even when this team is winning and selling out games their revenue projects to be below the league average because our ticket prices are so low. 

They've been ramping up this point year after year as they prepare to ask for higher ticket prices, a new stadium, downtown development subsidies, and an additional UK game.  

O just see it as more of the same old talk from Lamping trying to drum up justification for charging more and now shipping off another game.

Yeh I've seen  most of them

Their sample of winning games and it's ability to make a sustainable franchise is based on either the 90s era or the literal one year sample this decade

Revenue below league average is still very profitable. So what they are really saying is even if we won we won't make as much as money as we want...and they're saying it under a historically poor losing ownership

People keep on with this "sample size" thing. 
It has zero to do with this. He cites projected numbers based on sellouts at current ticket prices. We're talking about projections, not samples. 

To your latter point, yes, absolutely Lamping and the organization seem to have their sights set too high for this market to attain. Yes, it might be a bit greedy.  Remaining profitable and perhaps above the lower 15% of the league might be a more realistic revenue goal than the league median. 

I'm just saying that he's been driving these exact same points home for years now and it's weird that it's suddenly getting this reaction when he's not saying anything new.
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#26

(01-15-2020, 05:49 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 05:43 PM)JackCity Wrote: Yeh I've seen  most of them

Their sample of winning games and it's ability to make a sustainable franchise is based on either the 90s era or the literal one year sample this decade

Revenue below league average is still very profitable. So what they are really saying is even if we won we won't make as much as money as we want...and they're saying it under a historically poor losing ownership

People keep on with this "sample size" thing. 
It has zero to do with this. He cites projected numbers based on sellouts at current ticket prices. We're talking about projections, not samples. 

To your latter point, yes, absolutely Lamping and the organization seem to have their sights set too high for this market to attain. Yes, it might be a bit greedy.  Remaining profitable and perhaps above the lower 15% of the league might be a more realistic revenue goal than the league median. 

I'm just saying that he's been driving these exact same points home for years now and it's weird that it's suddenly getting this reaction when he's not saying anything new.

The latter paragraph is the crux of the issue I think.  Seeming so bloodthirsty for profit maximisation while delivering one of the worst products around the league. 

Also it comes on the back of Shad saying the city can't support a team on its own. I don't think people are freaking out due to one comment , rather the narrative they are forming.
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#27

(01-15-2020, 04:39 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 03:45 PM)Jags Wrote: Yeah, he had a 36-44 record and 1 winning season with the browns over 5 years. He certainly wasn’t a proven coach at the time of his hiring in NE.

You need to educate yourself.  Entering the 1995 season, the Browns, coached by Bill Belichick, were coming off a playoff season in which the team finished 11–5 and advanced to the second round of the playoffs. Sports Illustrated predicted that the Browns would represent the AFC in Super Bowl XXX at the end of the season.  

The Browns announced the move during the following season and the team fell apart.  In the meantime Belichick had eyed up Ray Lewis for his 1st round draft pick but was let go prior to the draft.  The Ravens team was originally built primarily on Belichick's findings.   

That isn’t true. Art Modell actually told him he’d coach the Baltimore teamed, but he fired him in February, 1996–after their season completed.
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#28

(01-15-2020, 05:54 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 05:49 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: People keep on with this "sample size" thing. 
It has zero to do with this. He cites projected numbers based on sellouts at current ticket prices. We're talking about projections, not samples. 

To your latter point, yes, absolutely Lamping and the organization seem to have their sights set too high for this market to attain. Yes, it might be a bit greedy.  Remaining profitable and perhaps above the lower 15% of the league might be a more realistic revenue goal than the league median. 

I'm just saying that he's been driving these exact same points home for years now and it's weird that it's suddenly getting this reaction when he's not saying anything new.

The latter paragraph is the crux of the issue I think.  Seeming so bloodthirsty for profit maximisation while delivering one of the worst products around the league. 

Also it comes on the back of Shad saying the city can't support a team on its own. I don't think people are freaking out due to one comment , rather the narrative they are forming.

I guess. 

I guess the timing of the comment is making people salty, but Lamping literally said nothing he hasn't already said at the past three state of the franchise presentations. 

I'm not one to over-read the tea leaves.  

I just think this is more of Lamping paving the way for more "big asks." 
(give up another game, raise ticket prices, build Lot J, build a new stadium etc) 

Khan's comments in London were very much in the context of downtown development and the persistent stagnation there from local leaders.  His assertions about renovation/development being needed are 100% accurate - while his assertion that the market can't support 8 games was a very poor choice and ultimately inaccurate when a winning product is fielded.

Some Lamping follow up:


https://twitter.com/Demetrius82/status/1...93889?s=20
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#30

(01-15-2020, 06:19 PM)JackCity Wrote: https://twitter.com/JagsApologist/status...57376?s=19

LOL

It's really far from a threat. It's an assurance, followed by a tweet from some knucklehead who can't spell.
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#31

(01-15-2020, 06:21 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 06:19 PM)JackCity Wrote: https://twitter.com/JagsApologist/status...57376?s=19

LOL

It's really far from a threat. It's an assurance, followed by a tweet from some knucklehead who can't spell.

Nah he's cool


You don't think all of the critique of lamping is warranted?
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#32
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2020, 06:39 PM by jaguarmvp.)

This organization is out of touch with reality.  The 1 successful season we had in 7 years under khan the attendance spiked the next year.   Khan don't care about winning.  He will sell you pools and big screens at the stadium in the hopes you forget about the horrible product on the field.   Khan and Lamping can kiss it

https://jaguarswire.usatoday.com/2020/01...with-fans/
[Image: mvp.avia8a99974486b2b89.md.png]
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#33

That jacksonville.com article w/ all the quotes from our best supporters not renewing their season tickets is still very bad news. I recognized a lot of them from my trips down to tailgate w/ BCB and a couple of their Nashville road trips.
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#34

(01-15-2020, 06:34 PM)I’m JackCity Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 06:21 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: LOL

It's really far from a threat. It's an assurance, followed by a tweet from some knucklehead who can't spell.

Nah he's cool


You don't think all of the critique of lamping is warranted?

I read five of his tweets and he doesn’t seem cool to me. Seems dumb. 

Whatever. 

People can get mad all they want at lamping  but he’s not saying anything new. 
And now he’s going out of his way to damage control on the radio and folks are misconstruing those comments as well. 

I just don’t see anything worthy of getting in a lather about. 

Lamping and Khan are a bit greedier about team revenue  than maybe I previously  believed I guess. 
Far from shocking.
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#35

Maybe Lamping and Khan should consider this....
"In 2017, the Jaguars were worth $1.95 billion when they ranked 42nd. Last year, the Jaguars made the list ranked 45th, when the franchise was valued at $2.075 billion. The Jaguars' value estimates are a significant rise considering Khan bought the franchise from Wayne Weaver for $760 million in December 2011.Jul 23, 2019"

So , yes the fans appreciate all Khan done.....but, it's time to do the things that will field a winning product for several years and watch the fans
support that's been drifting away.
"Stay tight, stay close. Great things are going to continue to happen for this football team."  - Doug Peterson
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#36

This city's in for a rude awakening when the new CBA and TV deals happen. Watch how quickly things go from, "This city can't sustain a team by itself," to "This city can't sustain a team."
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#37
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2020, 08:03 PM by Jags.)

(01-15-2020, 04:39 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 03:45 PM)Jags Wrote: Yeah, he had a 36-44 record and 1 winning season with the browns over 5 years. He certainly wasn’t a proven coach at the time of his hiring in NE.

You need to educate yourself.  Entering the 1995 season, the Browns, coached by Bill Belichick, were coming off a playoff season in which the team finished 11–5 and advanced to the second round of the playoffs. Sports Illustrated predicted that the Browns would represent the AFC in Super Bowl XXX at the end of the season.  

The Browns announced the move during the following season and the team fell apart.  In the meantime Belichick had eyed up Ray Lewis for his 1st round draft pick but was let go prior to the draft.  The Ravens team was originally built primarily on Belichick's findings.   

So...his record as a Browns HC is not 36-44?  Because I can’t find otherwise.  That’s like a 45% win ratio.  If I’m doing the math somewhat right in my head.
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#38

My take on all this..between Khan being cheap with hires, and Lamping being a total tard this team isn't going to win as long Khan owns this team.
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#39

The Jacksonville market is extremely small compared to other markets. We've overachieved to get to where we are. Some, it seems, just aren't willing to see things for how they truly are.

If it weren't for Khan, an owner going strictly by the numbers likely would have packed up and moved the team by now.

It takes both. It takes winning AND it takes a large enough fanbase to sustain comfortably in times when the team isn't winning.

To get this market where it needs to be, there must be population and job growth that outpaces comparable cities. Without a healthy school system, I don't see how that happens in Jax. It's just not competitive enough to pull in the employers to put the city where it needs to be to more comfortably support our NFL franchise.

Otherwise, the club is going to continue to look at ways to more comfortably keep the team here - such as adding a second game to London. It may hurt some folks pride, but the city is as marginal an NFL city today as it was when we were narrowly awarded the franchise. There must be new, sustainable growth in the market and improved schools to support it.
"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."
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#40

Winning fixes everything. A decade with 1 winning season - you can't blame fans for being dissatisfied.

Unfortunately, things aren't going to be better in 2020. Same GM, same HC, an edict to "win now" that only hurts the long-term health of the roster. Another 6-10 season on the horizon.
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