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Isaiah Simmons?

#21

(01-22-2020, 11:28 AM)Upper Wrote:
(01-22-2020, 06:31 AM)Andy G Wrote: The more I think about it, I think Simmons could fit our roster.

Simmons played 15% or more of his snaps at each of LB, EDGE, nickelback, and safety. He can fit every single roster in the NFL.

From what I have seen, NFL players play best when they play one position.  Rookies have a hard enough time just making the league at one spot.  Maybe Simmons could play LB and safety.  But would he do either one of them well if he's asked to do both?  I am very skeptical that a guy can come into the league and play two positions.  

He's a LB.  But we would have 3 WLBs if we drafted him and we don't need another one of those if Jack goes to WLB as he should.  

They need to make some effort to build a team that fits together.  I don't want 3 WLBs when we have holes all over the roster.
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#22
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2020, 04:22 PM by JackCity.)

(01-29-2020, 04:11 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(01-22-2020, 11:28 AM)Upper Wrote: Simmons played 15% or more of his snaps at each of LB, EDGE, nickelback, and safety. He can fit every single roster in the NFL.

From what I have seen, NFL players play best when they play one position.  Rookies have a hard enough time just making the league at one spot.  Maybe Simmons could play LB and safety.  But would he do either one of them well if he's asked to do both?  I am very skeptical that a guy can come into the league and play two positions.  

He's a LB.  But we would have 3 WLBs if we drafted him and we don't need another one of those if Jack goes to WLB as he should.  

They need to make some effort to build a team that fits together.  I don't want 3 WLBs when we have holes all over the roster.

Don't think of it in terms of positions per se, think of it in terms of roles on a given play and the looks you can show. 

For example Simmons is as good as it gets for a LB playing in space. So he's a great option to play as a TE stopper even when they go out side. You can avoid having to play a DJ Hayden or move an outside corner onto then and still feel fairly sound match up wise. 

You can play Simmons as a box safety role who can drop back deep or cover the flats + he's a very good blitzer. Meaning you can show Simmons at LB but move him around and totally ruin what an offense believes he's going to do. 

Also the NFL passes a majority of the time on 2nd and 3rd down so Simmons is an advantage on at least 2 downs. And as far his run defense he's actually pretty good,  v good at diagnosis and super long arms, is he going to beat every block? Probably not Deion Jones is similar and he's one of the most valuable lbs in the entire league

Don't worry about his role next year
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#23

(01-29-2020, 04:21 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-29-2020, 04:11 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: From what I have seen, NFL players play best when they play one position.  Rookies have a hard enough time just making the league at one spot.  Maybe Simmons could play LB and safety.  But would he do either one of them well if he's asked to do both?  I am very skeptical that a guy can come into the league and play two positions.  

He's a LB.  But we would have 3 WLBs if we drafted him and we don't need another one of those if Jack goes to WLB as he should.  

They need to make some effort to build a team that fits together.  I don't want 3 WLBs when we have holes all over the roster.

Don't think of it in terms of positions per se, think of it in terms of roles on a given play and the looks you can show. 

For example Simmons is as good as it gets for a LB playing in space. So he's a great option to play as a TE stopper even when they go out side. You can avoid having to play a DJ Hayden or move an outside corner onto then and still feel fairly sound match up wise. 

You can play Simmons as a box safety role who can drop back deep or cover the flats + he's a very good blitzer. Meaning you can show Simmons at LB but move him around and totally ruin what an offense believes he's going to do. 

Also the NFL passes a majority of the time on 2nd and 3rd down so Simmons is an advantage on at least 2 downs. And as far his run defense he's actually pretty good,  v good at diagnosis and super long arms, is he going to beat every block? Probably not Deion Jones is similar and he's one of the most valuable lbs in the entire league

Don't worry about his role next year
I don’t worry about his role. I worry that Wash and company will not identify his role(s) properly and he’ll be used inefficiently. 

I love the talent level and wouldn’t mind the pick.
Reply

#24

(01-30-2020, 03:21 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(01-29-2020, 04:21 PM)JackCity Wrote: Don't think of it in terms of positions per se, think of it in terms of roles on a given play and the looks you can show. 

For example Simmons is as good as it gets for a LB playing in space. So he's a great option to play as a TE stopper even when they go out side. You can avoid having to play a DJ Hayden or move an outside corner onto then and still feel fairly sound match up wise. 

You can play Simmons as a box safety role who can drop back deep or cover the flats + he's a very good blitzer. Meaning you can show Simmons at LB but move him around and totally ruin what an offense believes he's going to do. 

Also the NFL passes a majority of the time on 2nd and 3rd down so Simmons is an advantage on at least 2 downs. And as far his run defense he's actually pretty good,  v good at diagnosis and super long arms, is he going to beat every block? Probably not Deion Jones is similar and he's one of the most valuable lbs in the entire league

Don't worry about his role next year
I don’t worry about his role. I worry that Wash and company will not identify his role(s) properly and he’ll be used inefficiently. 

I love the talent level and wouldn’t mind the pick.

I don't really mind what happens his rookie year given my expectations for every rook is fairly low + Wash likely gone after this season. 

Even if Wash just uses him as a standard off ball LB I think he can add a lot on the passing downs
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#25

Interesting point made by Bucky Brooks in his podcast with David Jeremiah.

To succeed in the AFC we’re going to have to find a way of dealing with some super-athletic QBs (Jackson, Watson are the main ones, but others like Mahomes are pretty slippery too).

So it probably makes sense to add speed and athleticism to our defense, wherever we can.
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#26

I think he we would fill in and take Telvins spot perfectly
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#27

(01-30-2020, 08:15 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I think he we would fill in and take Telvins spot perfectly

And there's the problem.  We need to move Myles Jack into that spot.  AND, we also have Quincy Williams to play that spot.  So we would have THREE WLBs while we have holes all over the roster.
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#28
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 07:11 AM by flgatorsandjags.)

(01-31-2020, 06:11 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(01-30-2020, 08:15 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I think he we would fill in and take Telvins spot perfectly

And there's the problem.  We need to move Myles Jack into that spot.  AND, we also have Quincy Williams to play that spot.  So we would have THREE WLBs while we have holes all over the roster.

Or you just move Jack back to SAM where he had his best years here.  I like Joacobs but he isnt as good as Jack was there and hes good depth

Simmons-Payne-Jack would be a much improved LB corps or we could still get a guy like Evan Weaver.  Jack can stay out on passing downs like he did on Pozs last year
Reply

#29

(01-31-2020, 07:10 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 06:11 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: And there's the problem.  We need to move Myles Jack into that spot.  AND, we also have Quincy Williams to play that spot.  So we would have THREE WLBs while we have holes all over the roster.

Or you just move Jack back to SAM where he had his best years here.  I like Joacobs but he isnt as good as Jack was there and hes good depth

Simmons-Payne-Jack would be a much improved LB corps or we could still get a guy like Evan Weaver.  Jack can stay out on passing downs like he did on Pozs last year

Look, all we have to do is get a MLB and move Jack to WLB.  Then we're done.  You guys who have fallen in love with Simmons talk about all kinds of gyrations in an effort to fit these mis-matched parts together.  We have a WLB- Myles Jack.  We don't need another WLB.  There are many many positions I would rather fill with a premium pick than yet another WLB.
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#30

(01-31-2020, 08:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 07:10 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Or you just move Jack back to SAM where he had his best years here.  I like Joacobs but he isnt as good as Jack was there and hes good depth

Simmons-Payne-Jack would be a much improved LB corps or we could still get a guy like Evan Weaver.  Jack can stay out on passing downs like he did on Pozs last year

Look, all we have to do is get a MLB and move Jack to WLB.  Then we're done.  You guys who have fallen in love with Simmons talk about all kinds of gyrations in an effort to fit these mis-matched parts together.  We have a WLB- Myles Jack.  We don't need another WLB.  There are many many positions I would rather fill with a premium pick than yet another WLB.

Unfortunately there is zero evidence that Jack would be good at Will. It is very possible that we would still have a big hole at Will even if we got a true Mike.
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#31

(01-31-2020, 10:29 AM)Upper Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 08:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: Look, all we have to do is get a MLB and move Jack to WLB.  Then we're done.  You guys who have fallen in love with Simmons talk about all kinds of gyrations in an effort to fit these mis-matched parts together.  We have a WLB- Myles Jack.  We don't need another WLB.  There are many many positions I would rather fill with a premium pick than yet another WLB.

Unfortunately there is zero evidence that Jack would be good at Will. It is very possible that we would still have a big hole at Will even if we got a true Mike.

Sure, it's possible that he won't be good at Will.  But it's absolutely dead certain that we have holes in other places in our roster.   Wouldn't it make more sense to try to fix the dead certain holes than to spend the limited resources we have on something that might or might not be true?
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#32

(01-31-2020, 10:29 AM)Upper Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 08:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: Look, all we have to do is get a MLB and move Jack to WLB.  Then we're done.  You guys who have fallen in love with Simmons talk about all kinds of gyrations in an effort to fit these mis-matched parts together.  We have a WLB- Myles Jack.  We don't need another WLB.  There are many many positions I would rather fill with a premium pick than yet another WLB.

Unfortunately there is zero evidence that Jack would be good at Will. It is very possible that we would still have a big hole at Will even if we got a true Mike.

Maybe... but then as suggested above, he has proven to be good at SAM so he could move there and Quincy could get another shot at WILL

I just don't know about taking a WLB top ten. Or any LB top ten really...Unless you know he's the next Luke Kuechly... 
Not sure Simmons is that. He's more swiss army knife than QB of the defense guy from what I've read.

Which would be great.... if we had coaches that knew how to operate a swiss army knife lulz
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#33
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 12:25 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(01-31-2020, 08:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 07:10 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Or you just move Jack back to SAM where he had his best years here.  I like Joacobs but he isnt as good as Jack was there and hes good depth

Simmons-Payne-Jack would be a much improved LB corps or we could still get a guy like Evan Weaver.  Jack can stay out on passing downs like he did on Pozs last year

Look, all we have to do is get a MLB and move Jack to WLB.  Then we're done.  You guys who have fallen in love with Simmons talk about all kinds of gyrations in an effort to fit these mis-matched parts together.  We have a WLB- Myles Jack.  We don't need another WLB.  There are many many positions I would rather fill with a premium pick than yet another WLB.
I want BAP and if Simmons is there when we pick he will most likely be BAP.  Its possible he will be a good WILL but that would still be a new position for him.  SAM wouldn't be a new position and he played really good for us there.  Why not have Simmons and Jack as OLBs?

(01-31-2020, 11:28 AM)Kane Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 10:29 AM)Upper Wrote: Unfortunately there is zero evidence that Jack would be good at Will. It is very possible that we would still have a big hole at Will even if we got a true Mike.

Maybe... but then as suggested above, he has proven to be good at SAM so he could move there and Quincy could get another shot at WILL

I just don't know about taking a WLB top ten. Or any LB top ten really...Unless you know he's the next Luke Kuechly... 
Not sure Simmons is that. He's more swiss army knife than QB of the defense guy from what I've read.

Which would be great.... if we had coaches that knew how to operate a swiss army knife lulz

Kuechly is a MLB.  Would you take a Telvin Smith at his best in the top 10?  I think he can be every bit as good as Smith was in his prime and possibly better
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#34

Jack was a playmaker when he played SAM
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#35
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 12:39 PM by JackCity.)

Jack isn't actually a good sam, it's just the least important position in base defense so you can hide him there somewhat, his skillset isn't of a sams at all. Most of his good play came on the passing downs that year in 2017 where he was above average as a mike and v good in coverage

The Jags should still be building their defense around the passing downs , Simmons is as good as a LB pick as you can ever get with that. The run defense issues is more about A) Dline still has no counter to doubles inside B) The defensive staff get out coached and out schemed a lot of the time and C) The LBs lacked any kind of diagnosis skills with minimal instinct for the run game.

You aren't solving B until everyone is fired. You may not solve C either
with Simmons but he's extremely good diagnosis wise to at help out what Myles lacks eventually.

Remember we aren't drafting for this upcoming season, we are drafting for what our team will look like in 2021, 2022, 2023 etc etc
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#36

(01-31-2020, 12:35 PM)JackCity Wrote: Jack isn't actually a good sam, it's just the least important position in base defense so you can hide him there somewhat, his skillset isn't of a sams at all.

The Jags should still be building their defense around the passing downs , Simmons is as good as a LB pick as you can ever get with that. The run defense issues is more about A) Dline still has no counter to doubles inside B) The defensive staff get out coached and out schemed a lot of the time and C) The LBs lacked any kind of diagnosis skills with minimal instinct for the run game.

You aren't solving B until everyone is fired. You may not solve C either
with Simmons but he's extremely good diagnosis wise to at help out what Myles lacks eventually.

Remember we aren't drafting for this upcoming season, we are drafting for what our team will look like in 2021, 2022, 2023 etc etc
Jack was a damn good SAM and was snubbed for a Pro Bowl spot in 17.  He was a play maker and had a 3 or 4 game stretch where he created a turnover and much better againstthe tun when playing outside.    We are drafting for 2020 and ever other year after.  You are probably in tank mode already but with a good draft and some smart FA moves and cuts we can be back in the playoffs especially with a full training camp for Mishew as the starter
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#37

(01-31-2020, 12:21 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 08:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: Look, all we have to do is get a MLB and move Jack to WLB.  Then we're done.  You guys who have fallen in love with Simmons talk about all kinds of gyrations in an effort to fit these mis-matched parts together.  We have a WLB- Myles Jack.  We don't need another WLB.  There are many many positions I would rather fill with a premium pick than yet another WLB.
I want BAP and if Simmons is there when we pick he will most likely be BAP.  Its possible he will be a good WILL but that would still be a new position for him.  SAM wouldn't be a new position and he played really good for us there.  Why not have Simmons and Jack as OLBs?

(01-31-2020, 11:28 AM)Kane Wrote: Maybe... but then as suggested above, he has proven to be good at SAM so he could move there and Quincy could get another shot at WILL

I just don't know about taking a WLB top ten. Or any LB top ten really...Unless you know he's the next Luke Kuechly... 
Not sure Simmons is that. He's more swiss army knife than QB of the defense guy from what I've read.

Which would be great.... if we had coaches that knew how to operate a swiss army knife lulz

Kuechly is a MLB.  Would you take a Telvin Smith at his best in the top 10?  I think he can be every bit as good as Smith was in his prime and possibly better

I know Kuechly is a MLB, that's my point.
No I wouldn't take Telvin Smith top 10
Dude was constantly out of position and a liability in coverage. Made up for his errors with his speed. And kinda fell off once them pockets got heavy.
Getting 3 good years from a WLB is not worth a top 10 selection. We need a MLB not a WLB or a LB/S hybrid. MLB can be addressed outside of the top ten this year (or in FA)

I think there will be plenty of other picks available at 9 I can't possibly see Simmons being the BAP.
Brown, Kinlaw, Okudah, Thomas... one of those guys should be available.
If not I'd almost rather take Jeudy over Simmons there.

I'm not doubting the kids talent. Just doubting the impact and ability to use him correctly in our scheme, with our coaches. And the value of taking a WLB/S hybrid at 9 overall, passing on talented DL, OL, or DBs that we need much more.
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#38

(01-31-2020, 12:44 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 12:35 PM)JackCity Wrote: Jack isn't actually a good sam, it's just the least important position in base defense so you can hide him there somewhat, his skillset isn't of a sams at all.

The Jags should still be building their defense around the passing downs , Simmons is as good as a LB pick as you can ever get with that. The run defense issues is more about A) Dline still has no counter to doubles inside B) The defensive staff get out coached and out schemed a lot of the time and C) The LBs lacked any kind of diagnosis skills with minimal instinct for the run game.

You aren't solving B until everyone is fired. You may not solve C either
with Simmons but he's extremely good diagnosis wise to at help out what Myles lacks eventually.

Remember we aren't drafting for this upcoming season, we are drafting for what our team will look like in 2021, 2022, 2023 etc etc
Jack was a damn good SAM and was snubbed for a Pro Bowl spot in 17.  He was a play maker and had a 3 or 4 game stretch where he created a turnover and much better againstthe tun when playing outside.    We are drafting for 2020 and ever other year after.  You are probably in tank mode already but with a good draft and some smart FA moves and cuts we can be back in the playoffs especially with a full training camp for Mishew as the startepkapkahed
He played mike around 65+% of the time. He was v good because of how good his coverage was on passing downs not because he was killing it as a sam the other 30% of the time. He was a mike who occasionally played sam in 2017. 
The reason you don't draft for 2020 is because rookies should never be counted on to be impact players year 1 and this roster is two off seasons away from being competitive enough for the playoffs + the coaching is terrible outside of Gruden. The optimum build is to try form the most talented team we can in the following years vs seeing who can just plug holes this year
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#39

(01-31-2020, 12:48 PM)Kane Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 12:21 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I want BAP and if Simmons is there when we pick he will most likely be BAP.  Its possible he will be a good WILL but that would still be a new position for him.  SAM wouldn't be a new position and he played really good for us there.  Why not have Simmons and Jack as OLBs?


Kuechly is a MLB.  Would you take a Telvin Smith at his best in the top 10?  I think he can be every bit as good as Smith was in his prime and possibly better

I know Kuechly is a MLB, that's my point.
No I wouldn't take Telvin Smith top 10
Dude was constantly out of position and a liability in coverage.
Made up for his errors with his speed. And kinda fell off once them pockets got heavy.
Getting 3 good years from a WLB is not worth a top 10 selection. We need a MLB not a WLB or a LB/S hybrid. MLB can be addressed outside of the top ten this year (or in FA)

I think there will be plenty of other picks available at 9 I can't possibly see Simmons being the BAP.
Brown, Kinlaw, Okudah, Thomas... one of those guys should be available.
If not I'd almost rather take Jeudy over Simmons there.

I'm not doubting the kids talent. Just doubting the impact and ability to use him correctly in our scheme, with our coaches. And the value of taking a WLB/S hybrid at 9 overall, passing on talented DL, OL, or DBs that we need much more.

I said would you take a Telvin at his best in the top 10.  Telvin wasnt constantly out of position in 17 and was one of the best LBs in the game, the reason he made All Pro.  I think Simmons can be every bit that and the potential to be even better.  Hes better in coverage and can blitz if need be.  He will also probably run a similar 40 that Telvin did
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#40

(01-31-2020, 01:00 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 12:48 PM)Kane Wrote: I know Kuechly is a MLB, that's my point.
No I wouldn't take Telvin Smith top 10
Dude was constantly out of position and a liability in coverage.
Made up for his errors with his speed. And kinda fell off once them pockets got heavy.
Getting 3 good years from a WLB is not worth a top 10 selection. We need a MLB not a WLB or a LB/S hybrid. MLB can be addressed outside of the top ten this year (or in FA)

I think there will be plenty of other picks available at 9 I can't possibly see Simmons being the BAP.
Brown, Kinlaw, Okudah, Thomas... one of those guys should be available.
If not I'd almost rather take Jeudy over Simmons there.

I'm not doubting the kids talent. Just doubting the impact and ability to use him correctly in our scheme, with our coaches. And the value of taking a WLB/S hybrid at 9 overall, passing on talented DL, OL, or DBs that we need much more.

I said would you take a Telvin at his best in the top 10.  Telvin wasnt constantly out of position in 17 and was one of the best LBs in the game, the reason he made All Pro.  I think Simmons can be every bit that and the potential to be even better.  Hes better in coverage and can blitz if need be.  He will also probably run a similar 40 that Telvin did

I still wouldn't take ANY WLB at his best in top ten. Especially Telvin. His 2017 year was great but was often making his plays trailing. He also was playing with a ton of good pieces around him (including Jack and Poz who were playing well that year, a very good DL, and two very very good corners)
That's just me though, maybe others feel differently. Outside of a 3 down MLB  that can QB the defense I'm not a fan of drafting LBers high in the first round (this of course is different for a 34 rush backer obviously)

Like I said, I'm not doubting Simmons ability... And personally if we did end up with him, I'd be more tempted to play him at S than LB just because of our needs/scheme fit. I think we're best off getting a MLB (round 2-4 or FA) and moving Jack to WLB
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