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Team needs

#81

(05-20-2020, 11:54 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 10:46 AM)JackCity Wrote: Surprised more people aren't mentioning how big a need interior pressure is. They're going from multiple seasons with at least one elite pressure players inside every year (Malik, Calais) to now relying on a huge Taven Bryan breakout and whatever Smoot can offer inside for a few snaps

The short answer as to why it's not mentioned is that interior players have been acquired and a tweak in scheme suggests interior players will be more focused on sound run defense over ability to pressure. 

Secondly, how many of Campbell's 71 pressures last year do you think came from the inside?  I'd wager it's well under 50%. 

The Taven Bryan element of this topic is an interesting one to watch, because he's actually pretty adept at getting penetration vs the pass. He's just not very instinctive to the ball once he gets past his blocker. That may develop. 

(Hamilton's profiles all suggest he'll need some time to develop before he can pressure consistently from the inside.) 

If the new acquisitions are able to keep QBs from stepping up in the pocket the Jags should have a capable enough rotation of ends to clean up.

I'd say Calais had sub 50% pressures inside too but also Calais Campbell inside forced defenses to dictate blocking schemes to account for him and the ability to move him around multiple alignments with high success is invaluable to a dline, that is all gone now. A lot of that wouldn't necessarily show up in raw pressure stats. 

Hamilton projects as a run stopper with enough pass rushing juice to stay on all 3 downs, but not really someone who can be a consistent disruptor in the pass game. 

Where would you rank our group in terms of interior pressure around the league?
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#82

(05-20-2020, 03:03 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 11:54 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: The short answer as to why it's not mentioned is that interior players have been acquired and a tweak in scheme suggests interior players will be more focused on sound run defense over ability to pressure. 

Secondly, how many of Campbell's 71 pressures last year do you think came from the inside?  I'd wager it's well under 50%. 

The Taven Bryan element of this topic is an interesting one to watch, because he's actually pretty adept at getting penetration vs the pass. He's just not very instinctive to the ball once he gets past his blocker. That may develop. 

(Hamilton's profiles all suggest he'll need some time to develop before he can pressure consistently from the inside.) 

If the new acquisitions are able to keep QBs from stepping up in the pocket the Jags should have a capable enough rotation of ends to clean up.

I'd say Calais had sub 50% pressures inside too but also Calais Campbell inside forced defenses to dictate blocking schemes to account for him and the ability to move him around multiple alignments with high success is invaluable to a dline, that is all gone now. A lot of that wouldn't necessarily show up in raw pressure stats. 

Hamilton projects as a run stopper with enough pass rushing juice to stay on all 3 downs, but not really someone who can be a consistent disruptor in the pass game. 

Where would you rank our group in terms of interior pressure around the league?

Your first paragraph is speculative unless you have numbers to back up Campbell being a particular focus of blocking when he was moved inside. I'd wager that happened quite rarely. 
I'd counter your "that is all gone now"  assertion with the more accurate "that is all different now." 

It's not at all farfetched to think that Allen will draw similar interest from blocking schemes from the outside. 
The only thing we're really missing from Calais departure is that you have to alter the package that featured Calais Campbell moving inside with a Smoot-type -  or whomever wins that role. 
His role on the outside isn't going to be some big drop-off. 
Now, when you consider that they are focusing on putting three run stuffers up front on a regular basis, that difference is even more diminished. Then go ahead and factor in that Campbell is yet a year older. 

I'd like to see what they've really got cooked up scheme-wise and see who ends up getting snaps inside on pass rushing downs before painting it with the doom/gloom brush. I wouldn't attempt to rank it against other groups in the league as I don't know which players will dominate snaps inside vs the pass.
Clearly we've got to stop the run first if we're going to even have obvious pass rushing downs to defend -  and that was cleary their focus this offseason at NT/DT.
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#83

(05-20-2020, 03:03 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 11:54 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: The short answer as to why it's not mentioned is that interior players have been acquired and a tweak in scheme suggests interior players will be more focused on sound run defense over ability to pressure. 

Secondly, how many of Campbell's 71 pressures last year do you think came from the inside?  I'd wager it's well under 50%. 

The Taven Bryan element of this topic is an interesting one to watch, because he's actually pretty adept at getting penetration vs the pass. He's just not very instinctive to the ball once he gets past his blocker. That may develop. 

(Hamilton's profiles all suggest he'll need some time to develop before he can pressure consistently from the inside.) 

If the new acquisitions are able to keep QBs from stepping up in the pocket the Jags should have a capable enough rotation of ends to clean up.

I'd say Calais had sub 50% pressures inside too but also Calais Campbell inside forced defenses to dictate blocking schemes to account for him and the ability to move him around multiple alignments with high success is invaluable to a dline, that is all gone now. A lot of that wouldn't necessarily show up in raw pressure stats. 

Hamilton projects as a run stopper with enough pass rushing juice to stay on all 3 downs, but not really someone who can be a consistent disruptor in the pass game. 

Where would you rank our group in terms of interior pressure around the league?

Do you project Gunter as purely a big end? Between him Taven Jones and Smoot, I felt that there would be a decent rotation at 3 tech. All three players do still have room for growth as well. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if one of them takes advantage of the opportunity.
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#84
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2020, 09:53 AM by JackCity.)

(05-20-2020, 03:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 03:03 PM)JackCity Wrote: I'd say Calais had sub 50% pressures inside too but also Calais Campbell inside forced defenses to dictate blocking schemes to account for him and the ability to move him around multiple alignments with high success is invaluable to a dline, that is all gone now. A lot of that wouldn't necessarily show up in raw pressure stats. 

Hamilton projects as a run stopper with enough pass rushing juice to stay on all 3 downs, but not really someone who can be a consistent disruptor in the pass game. 

Where would you rank our group in terms of interior pressure around the league?

Your first paragraph is speculative unless you have numbers to back up Campbell being a particular focus of blocking when he was moved inside. I'd wager that happened quite rarely. 
I'd counter your "that is all gone now"  assertion with the more accurate "that is all different now." 

It's not at all farfetched to think that Allen will draw similar interest from blocking schemes from the outside. 
The only thing we're really missing from Calais departure is that you have to alter the package that featured Calais Campbell moving inside with a Smoot-type -  or whomever wins that role. 
His role on the outside isn't going to be some big drop-off. 
Now, when you consider that they are focusing on putting three run stuffers up front on a regular basis, that difference is even more diminished. Then go ahead and factor in that Campbell is yet a year older. 

I'd like to see what they've really got cooked up scheme-wise and see who ends up getting snaps inside on pass rushing downs before painting it with the doom/gloom brush. I wouldn't attempt to rank it against other groups in the league as I don't know which players will dominate snaps inside vs the pass.
Clearly we've got to stop the run first if we're going to even have obvious pass rushing downs to defend -  and that was cleary their focus this offseason at NT/DT.

It's not speculation to say teams block differently and run plays differently when a player of Calais caliber is inside vs without. It's a huge boon for a defense to have that gap versatile monster inside or outside 

Thats pretty much the point though. It's easier for teams to devote attention to one edge (such as Allen) without needing to devote more attention inside, having a great interior pressure players inside helps outside players a lot, again, that is not there now.

And I think you are focusing too much on a base defense of 3 run stuffers when the downs that are actually more relevant to the loss of Calais as a pass rusher inside will have two interior players who will need to be disruptive. Also, you still need a lot of disruption inside for a lot of 3-4s to work. 

Stopping the run is good, but won't matter much if the pass rush unit is way worse (which it will if Yannick doesn't play) and that's even aside from Todd Wash trying to design coverage without a very good pass rush for the first time ever

(05-20-2020, 04:06 PM)rufftime Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 03:03 PM)JackCity Wrote: I'd say Calais had sub 50% pressures inside too but also Calais Campbell inside forced defenses to dictate blocking schemes to account for him and the ability to move him around multiple alignments with high success is invaluable to a dline, that is all gone now. A lot of that wouldn't necessarily show up in raw pressure stats. 

Hamilton projects as a run stopper with enough pass rushing juice to stay on all 3 downs, but not really someone who can be a consistent disruptor in the pass game. 

Where would you rank our group in terms of interior pressure around the league?

Do you project Gunter as purely a big end?  Between him Taven Jones and Smoot, I felt that there would be a decent rotation at 3 tech.  All three players do still have room for growth as well.  It wouldn’t surprise me at all if one of them takes advantage of the opportunity.

Nah Gunter can play 3 tech and big end in either system. Just not much of a pass rush guy. It's a very limited group to try get consistent pass rush and disruption from
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#85

(05-22-2020, 09:51 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 03:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Your first paragraph is speculative unless you have numbers to back up Campbell being a particular focus of blocking when he was moved inside. I'd wager that happened quite rarely. 
I'd counter your "that is all gone now"  assertion with the more accurate "that is all different now." 

It's not at all farfetched to think that Allen will draw similar interest from blocking schemes from the outside. 
The only thing we're really missing from Calais departure is that you have to alter the package that featured Calais Campbell moving inside with a Smoot-type -  or whomever wins that role. 
His role on the outside isn't going to be some big drop-off. 
Now, when you consider that they are focusing on putting three run stuffers up front on a regular basis, that difference is even more diminished. Then go ahead and factor in that Campbell is yet a year older. 

I'd like to see what they've really got cooked up scheme-wise and see who ends up getting snaps inside on pass rushing downs before painting it with the doom/gloom brush. I wouldn't attempt to rank it against other groups in the league as I don't know which players will dominate snaps inside vs the pass.
Clearly we've got to stop the run first if we're going to even have obvious pass rushing downs to defend -  and that was cleary their focus this offseason at NT/DT.

It's not speculation to say teams block differently and run plays differently when a player of Calais caliber is inside vs without. It's a huge boon for a defense to have that gap versatile monster inside or outside 

Thats pretty much the point though. It's easier for teams to devote attention to one edge (such as Allen) without needing to devote more attention inside, having a great interior pressure players inside helps outside players a lot, again, that is not there now.

And I think you are focusing too much on a base defense of 3 run stuffers when the downs that are actually more relevant to the loss of Calais as a pass rusher inside will have two interior players who will need to be disruptive. Also, you still need a lot of disruption inside for a lot of 3-4s to work. 

Stopping the run is good, but won't matter much if the pass rush unit is way worse (which it will if Yannick doesn't play) and that's even aside from Todd Wash trying to design coverage without a very good pass rush for the first time ever

(05-20-2020, 04:06 PM)rufftime Wrote: Do you project Gunter as purely a big end?  Between him Taven Jones and Smoot, I felt that there would be a decent rotation at 3 tech.  All three players do still have room for growth as well.  It wouldn’t surprise me at all if one of them takes advantage of the opportunity.

Nah Gunter can play 3 tech and big end in either system. Just not much of a pass rush guy. It's a very limited group to try get consistent pass rush and disruption from

Taven will continue growing into an inside disruptor, but I agree about everyone else. So, realistically, Allen, Chaisson, and Bryan need to beast out as the main pass rushers. Everyone else just needs to hold the point and nab some coverage sacks. 

If Yan returns and doesn't fake injury, then it's a top 10 line. Otherwise it's neither strength nor liability.
"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

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#86
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2020, 01:31 PM by Newton.)

I think The development of Taven will be a big storyline. He is after all still a young player with a lot of elite physical traits. He shared some growth last year. A big leap in his play would be extremely helpful for this defense.
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#87

(05-22-2020, 09:51 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 03:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Your first paragraph is speculative unless you have numbers to back up Campbell being a particular focus of blocking when he was moved inside. I'd wager that happened quite rarely. 
I'd counter your "that is all gone now"  assertion with the more accurate "that is all different now." 

It's not at all farfetched to think that Allen will draw similar interest from blocking schemes from the outside. 
The only thing we're really missing from Calais departure is that you have to alter the package that featured Calais Campbell moving inside with a Smoot-type -  or whomever wins that role. 
His role on the outside isn't going to be some big drop-off. 
Now, when you consider that they are focusing on putting three run stuffers up front on a regular basis, that difference is even more diminished. Then go ahead and factor in that Campbell is yet a year older. 

I'd like to see what they've really got cooked up scheme-wise and see who ends up getting snaps inside on pass rushing downs before painting it with the doom/gloom brush. I wouldn't attempt to rank it against other groups in the league as I don't know which players will dominate snaps inside vs the pass.
Clearly we've got to stop the run first if we're going to even have obvious pass rushing downs to defend -  and that was cleary their focus this offseason at NT/DT.

It's not speculation to say teams block differently and run plays differently when a player of Calais caliber is inside vs without. It's a huge boon for a defense to have that gap versatile monster inside or outside 

Thats pretty much the point though. It's easier for teams to devote attention to one edge (such as Allen) without needing to devote more attention inside, having a great interior pressure players inside helps outside players a lot, again, that is not there now.

And I think you are focusing too much on a base defense of 3 run stuffers when the downs that are actually more relevant to the loss of Calais as a pass rusher inside will have two interior players who will need to be disruptive. Also, you still need a lot of disruption inside for a lot of 3-4s to work. 

Stopping the run is good, but won't matter much if the pass rush unit is way worse (which it will if Yannick doesn't play) and that's even aside from Todd Wash trying to design coverage without a very good pass rush for the first time ever

It's speculation. Because you are guessing how much teams altered their blocking scheme to account for Calais at DT.
And I believe you are overstating it. 

I, in turn, am speculating that teams accounted for him MUCH more at big end than they did at DT.  I think the vast majority of his meaningful pass rush snaps came from the outside and when Campbell got pressure inside  - the primary focus of opponents' blocking was on Allen and Ngakoue outside. 

We'll miss him. I wanted him around one more year. But I don't think our interior pressure game fell off the map because of his absence. It wasn't a major part of our defense after Dareus got hurt anyway. It was more just disruption inside and pressure from the edges. The Dareus loss is a greater one in terms of interior pressure IMO. 

Anyway,  I'd still like to see what our pass rush packages look like and who the actual personnel is before writing them off as unable to generate inside pressure.  I'm going to cross my fingers that you're being as overly pessimistic here as you were last year about our receivers at this stage of the offseason.
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#88

(05-22-2020, 01:46 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 09:51 AM)JackCity Wrote:
It's not speculation to say teams block differently and run plays differently when a player of Calais caliber is inside vs without. It's a huge boon for a defense to have that gap versatile monster inside or outside 

Thats pretty much the point though. It's easier for teams to devote attention to one edge (such as Allen) without needing to devote more attention inside, having a great interior pressure players inside helps outside players a lot, again, that is not there now.

And I think you are focusing too much on a base defense of 3 run stuffers when the downs that are actually more relevant to the loss of Calais as a pass rusher inside will have two interior players who will need to be disruptive. Also, you still need a lot of disruption inside for a lot of 3-4s to work. 

Stopping the run is good, but won't matter much if the pass rush unit is way worse (which it will if Yannick doesn't play) and that's even aside from Todd Wash trying to design coverage without a very good pass rush for the first time ever

It's speculation. Because you are guessing how much teams altered their blocking scheme to account for Calais at DT.
And I believe you are overstating it. 

I, in turn, am speculating that teams accounted for him MUCH more at big end than they did at DT.  I think the vast majority of his meaningful pass rush snaps came from the outside and when Campbell got pressure inside  - the primary focus of opponents' blocking was on Allen and Ngakoue outside. 

We'll miss him. I wanted him around one more year. But I don't think our interior pressure game fell off the map because of his absence. It wasn't a major part of our defense after Dareus got hurt anyway. It was more just disruption inside and pressure from the edges. The Dareus loss is a greater one in terms of interior pressure IMO. 

Anyway,  I'd still like to see what our pass rush packages look like and who the actual personnel is before writing them off as unable to generate inside pressure.  I'm going to cross my fingers that you're being as overly pessimistic here as you were last year about our receivers at this stage of the offseason.


Dareus has 8 pressures in 21 games for the Jags, he hasn't really been a factor in getting pressure but has helped those beside him get it. Calais gets consistent pressure inside and has helped those around him too when put in there. 

And much like the WRs the reason for pessimism is I'm not counting breakouts until I actually see them. Was skeptical Chark would improve as much as he did in a year , much like I'm skeptical Taven improves that much in a year to the point of us having at least one inside player capable of consistent pressure. If it happens, awesome , just not giving it as concrete until we can see it
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