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Head, Heart, Gut draft picks

#21
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2020, 03:56 AM by MojoKing.)

I haven’t been this apathetic about our pick in awhile, it just seems whoever we pick up, it won’t matter because we’re looking at a 7-10 or 8-9 season at best.
Buuttttt, i won’t be a negative Nancy, cuz I BELIEVE in the Shew

Head: Derrick Brown
Heart: Henry Ruggs
Gut: Javon Kinlaw

Unless Okudah or Simmons falls, im guessing a DT WR pairing in the 1st round
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#22

Pick 9
Head: Brown
Heart: Okudah
Gut: Brown

Pick 20
Head: Austin Jackson
Heart: trade up for Kinlaw, Jeudy or Lamb
Gut: Diggs
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#23

(03-25-2020, 08:58 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: #9

Head: Wirfs at RG

What a yikes it would be if we drafted Wirfs and put him at guard...
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#24

(03-26-2020, 10:16 AM)Upper Wrote:
(03-25-2020, 08:58 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: #9

Head: Wirfs at RG

What a yikes it would be if we drafted Wirfs and put him at guard...

Not if hes the next Yanda.  I'd rather have a great guard than a good tackle.
Reply

#25

(03-26-2020, 10:40 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 10:16 AM)Upper Wrote: What a yikes it would be if we drafted Wirfs and put him at guard...

Not if hes the next Yanda.  I'd rather have a great guard than a good tackle.

I would disagree with that, if we're just going by PFF grade scale for the simplicity of it...I would much rather have an 80 grade OT than a 90 OG. Second, there's no reason that Wirfs wouldn't be as good at tackle as he would be at guard. Especially considering the tackles we already have.
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#26

(03-26-2020, 03:56 AM)MojoKing Wrote: I haven’t been this apathetic about our pick in awhile, it just seems whoever we pick up, it won’t matter because we’re looking at a 7-10 or 8-9 season at best.
Buuttttt, i won’t be a negative Nancy, cuz I BELIEVE in the Shew

Head: Derrick Brown
Heart: Henry Ruggs
Gut: Javon Kinlaw

Unless Okudah or Simmons falls, im guessing a DT WR pairing in the 1st round

I'm pretty sure the 17 game season doesn't come in until 2021, not this season.

Just expanded playoffs for this year.
Reply

#27
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2020, 11:07 AM by Kane.)

(03-26-2020, 10:43 AM)Upper Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 10:40 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Not if hes the next Yanda.  I'd rather have a great guard than a good tackle.

I would disagree with that, if we're just going by PFF grade scale for the simplicity of it...I would much rather have an 80 grade OT than a 90 OG. Second, there's no reason that Wirfs wouldn't be as good at tackle as he would be at guard. Especially considering the tackles we already have.

Wirfs played 30 games at RT and 4 at LT.
If you can plug and play Wirfs at G and he's as good as some of the best guards in the league, why not play him there?

Even IF he can play tackle, why not let him start at guard and then move to tackle when/if you move on from Cam.
Or let them openly compete for the job with the loser sliding to guard?

Lance Zeirlein at NFL.com puts him as a RT or G. And comps him to Bryan Bulaga.
3 out 4 guys at The Draft Network essentially slot him as a guard (or RT) with one comp being CAM ROBINSON
Daniel Jeremiah projects Wirfs as an elite guard prospect.

What do you know that they don't? PFF grades? People need to stop going to the site man lol
Taylor is our RT, for at least another couple seasons. So if you like Wirfs and want him on the roster, he's going to start at RG, the only spot on the line that was in flux last season.
If you're looking for a Cam Robinson replacement/upgrade you should be hoping for Becton, Jones, or maybe Wills (though he only played RT, it was the blindside of Tua's offense)
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#28

(03-26-2020, 11:07 AM)Kane Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 10:43 AM)Upper Wrote: I would disagree with that, if we're just going by PFF grade scale for the simplicity of it...I would much rather have an 80 grade OT than a 90 OG. Second, there's no reason that Wirfs wouldn't be as good at tackle as he would be at guard. Especially considering the tackles we already have.

Wirfs played 30 games at RT and 4 at LT.
If you can plug and play Wirfs at G and he's as good as some of the best guards in the league, why not play him there?

Even IF he can play tackle, why not let him start at guard and then move to tackle when/if you move on from Cam.
Or let them openly compete for the job with the loser sliding to guard?

Lance Zeirlein at NFL.com puts him as a RT or G. And comps him to Bryan Bulaga.
3 out 4 guys at The Draft Network essentially slot him as a guard (or RT) with one comp being CAM ROBINSON
Daniel Jeremiah projects Wirfs as an elite guard prospect.

What do you know that they don't? PFF grades? People need to stop going to the site man lol
Taylor is our RT, for at least another couple seasons. So if you like Wirfs and want him on the roster, he's going to start at RG, the only spot on the line that was in flux last season.
If you're looking for a Cam Robinson replacement/upgrade you should be hoping for Becton, Jones, or maybe Wills (though he only played RT, it was the blindside of Tua's offense)

Why pigeon hole him into guard if he has the tools to also be excellent at much more valuable positions? Try him at tackle first and if he fails then move him. No one disagrees that he would be a great guard.

Cam has been very bad for his whole career and Taylor was slightly better but still very not good last year. I'm not rushing out to replace Taylor after his rookie season but I am also not against moving him to guard if we landed a far superior prospect like Wirfs. It's not near the priority Cam is.

Lastly, whoever compared him to Cam should be shot into the sun. You could force Wirfs to play in an astronaut suit and he would still be more athletic than Cam.
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#29
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2020, 03:33 PM by Kane.)

(03-26-2020, 02:52 PM)Upper Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 11:07 AM)Kane Wrote: Wirfs played 30 games at RT and 4 at LT.
If you can plug and play Wirfs at G and he's as good as some of the best guards in the league, why not play him there?

Even IF he can play tackle, why not let him start at guard and then move to tackle when/if you move on from Cam.
Or let them openly compete for the job with the loser sliding to guard?

Lance Zeirlein at NFL.com puts him as a RT or G. And comps him to Bryan Bulaga.
3 out 4 guys at The Draft Network essentially slot him as a guard (or RT) with one comp being CAM ROBINSON
Daniel Jeremiah projects Wirfs as an elite guard prospect.

What do you know that they don't? PFF grades? People need to stop going to the site man lol
Taylor is our RT, for at least another couple seasons. So if you like Wirfs and want him on the roster, he's going to start at RG, the only spot on the line that was in flux last season.
If you're looking for a Cam Robinson replacement/upgrade you should be hoping for Becton, Jones, or maybe Wills (though he only played RT, it was the blindside of Tua's offense)

Why pigeon hole him into guard if he has the tools to also be excellent at much more valuable positions? Try him at tackle first and if he fails then move him. No one disagrees that he would be a great guard.

Cam has been very bad for his whole career and Taylor was slightly better but still very not good last year. I'm not rushing out to replace Taylor after his rookie season but I am also not against moving him to guard if we landed a far superior prospect like Wirfs. It's not near the priority Cam is.

Lastly, whoever compared him to Cam should be shot into the sun. You could force Wirfs to play in an astronaut suit and he would still be more athletic than Cam.

That's not true. He had a rookie year which he wasn't bad (only 2 sacks allowed). Then tore an ACL. And had a year that he wasn't really good but was still coming back from said ACL. And PFF has given him average grades over his 32 games. Not poor ones. Cam's biggest issue, imo, is penalties. Which I think comes with maturity and time.
Taylor was a rookie last year and improved greatly over the final 8 games.

If you can have a guy come in and be a pro bowler at G or "give him a shot at OT" I'd take the pro bowler
And Lance Zierlein comp'd him to Cam Robinson
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#30
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2020, 04:11 PM by Upper.)

(03-26-2020, 03:30 PM)Kane Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 02:52 PM)Upper Wrote: Why pigeon hole him into guard if he has the tools to also be excellent at much more valuable positions? Try him at tackle first and if he fails then move him. No one disagrees that he would be a great guard.

Cam has been very bad for his whole career and Taylor was slightly better but still very not good last year. I'm not rushing out to replace Taylor after his rookie season but I am also not against moving him to guard if we landed a far superior prospect like Wirfs. It's not near the priority Cam is.

Lastly, whoever compared him to Cam should be shot into the sun. You could force Wirfs to play in an astronaut suit and he would still be more athletic than Cam.

That's not true. He had a rookie year which he wasn't bad (only 2 sacks allowed). Then tore an ACL. And had a year that he wasn't really good but was still coming back from said ACL. And PFF has given him average grades over his 32 games. Not poor ones. Cam's biggest issue, imo, is penalties. Which I think comes with maturity and time.
Taylor was a rookie last year and improved greatly over the final 8 games.

If you can have a guy come in and be a pro bowler at G or "give him a shot at OT" I'd take the pro bowler
And Lance Zierlein comp'd him to Cam Robinson

Cam led the league in pressures allowed, gave up a league high 3+ pressures in a whopping 10 different games, and was like 4th in penalties as a rookie. He was awful sorry. I am really not a fan of revisionist history.
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#31

(03-26-2020, 10:43 AM)Upper Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 10:40 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Not if hes the next Yanda.  I'd rather have a great guard than a good tackle.

I would disagree with that, if we're just going by PFF grade scale for the simplicity of it...I would much rather have an 80 grade OT than a 90 OG. Second, there's no reason that Wirfs wouldn't be as good at tackle as he would be at guard. Especially considering the tackles we already have.

I think he could be a pretty good RT but I dont see him beating out Taylor anyway.  I feel his best position would be RT
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#32

Wirfs wouldn't beat out Taylor thanks for the laugh. Always helpful to have some laughter during these isolated times.
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#33

(03-26-2020, 04:17 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 10:43 AM)Upper Wrote: I would disagree with that, if we're just going by PFF grade scale for the simplicity of it...I would much rather have an 80 grade OT than a 90 OG. Second, there's no reason that Wirfs wouldn't be as good at tackle as he would be at guard. Especially considering the tackles we already have.

I think he could be a pretty good RT but I dont see him beating out Taylor anyway.  I feel his best position would be RT
I wonder why you don’t think Wirfs would beat out Taylor.....
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#34

(03-26-2020, 06:05 PM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 04:17 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I think he could be a pretty good RT but I dont see him beating out Taylor anyway.  I feel his best position would be RT
I wonder why you don’t think Wirfs would beat out Taylor.....
Because Taylor is pretty good in his own right with a year under his belt. I dont see him coming right in and beating out Taylor
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#35
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2020, 07:33 PM by Upper.)

(03-26-2020, 06:59 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 06:05 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: I wonder why you don’t think Wirfs would beat out Taylor.....
Because Taylor is pretty good in his own right with a year under his belt. I dont see him coming right in and beating out Taylor

Taylor was top 5 in penalties and in sacks allowed (I know pressures are better but I don't have those onhand). He is also a drastically worse athlete than Wirfs.

Drafting Wirfs and kicking Taylor inside (I would kick Cam inside first but still) would likely upgrade two positions just as well as Schobert did with our LB corps.
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#36

(03-26-2020, 11:07 AM)Kane Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 10:43 AM)Upper Wrote: I would disagree with that, if we're just going by PFF grade scale for the simplicity of it...I would much rather have an 80 grade OT than a 90 OG. Second, there's no reason that Wirfs wouldn't be as good at tackle as he would be at guard. Especially considering the tackles we already have.

Wirfs played 30 games at RT and 4 at LT.
If you can plug and play Wirfs at G and he's as good as some of the best guards in the league, why not play him there?

Even IF he can play tackle, why not let him start at guard and then move to tackle when/if you move on from Cam.
Or let them openly compete for the job with the loser sliding to guard?

Lance Zeirlein at NFL.com puts him as a RT or G. And comps him to Bryan Bulaga.
3 out 4 guys at The Draft Network essentially slot him as a guard (or RT) with one comp being CAM ROBINSON
Daniel Jeremiah projects Wirfs as an elite guard prospect.

What do you know that they don't? PFF grades? People need to stop going to the site man lol
Taylor is our RT, for at least another couple seasons. So if you like Wirfs and want him on the roster, he's going to start at RG, the only spot on the line that was in flux last season.
If you're looking for a Cam Robinson replacement/upgrade you should be hoping for Becton, Jones, or maybe Wills (though he only played RT, it was the blindside of Tua's offense)

After reading this, I'm kinda thinking maybe we slide Taylor inside, and let Wirfs handle RT if he goes at 9.

Personally, I don't think he'd be on the board by the time we pick, but whether you put him at RG or RT, I see the right side of the line being in good shape for a long time.
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#37
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2020, 10:03 AM by JackCity.)

(03-26-2020, 11:07 AM)Kane Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 10:43 AM)Upper Wrote: I would disagree with that, if we're just going by PFF grade scale for the simplicity of it...I would much rather have an 80 grade OT than a 90 OG. Second, there's no reason that Wirfs wouldn't be as good at tackle as he would be at guard. Especially considering the tackles we already have.

Wirfs played 30 games at RT and 4 at LT.
If you can plug and play Wirfs at G and he's as good as some of the best guards in the league, why not play him there?

Even IF he can play tackle, why not let him start at guard and then move to tackle when/if you move on from Cam.
Or let them openly compete for the job with the loser sliding to guard?

Lance Zeirlein at NFL.com puts him as a RT or G. And comps him to Bryan Bulaga.
3 out 4 guys at The Draft Network essentially slot him as a guard (or RT) with one comp being CAM ROBINSON
Daniel Jeremiah projects Wirfs as an elite guard prospect.

What do you know that they don't? PFF grades? People need to stop going to the site man lol
Taylor is our RT, for at least another couple seasons. So if you like Wirfs and want him on the roster, he's going to start at RG, the only spot on the line that was in flux last season.
If you're looking for a Cam Robinson replacement/upgrade you should be hoping for Becton, Jones, or maybe Wills (though he only played RT, it was the blindside of Tua's offense)

Moving players around isn't conducive to their development early on as an offensive lineman. If they take Wirfs at #9 it's going to be to play LT bar Cam turning into an actually good LT in this offseason. 

Wirfs has all the traits to play LT, has the athletic ability, has actually good tape there (even if 200 odd snaps) and it's the more valuable spot too. So yeah the only reason not to play him there is Cam becoming something he hasn't shown yet, and his contract is up soon too

Also Cam is a terrible comp for Wirfs
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#38

(03-27-2020, 10:02 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 11:07 AM)Kane Wrote: Wirfs played 30 games at RT and 4 at LT.
If you can plug and play Wirfs at G and he's as good as some of the best guards in the league, why not play him there?

Even IF he can play tackle, why not let him start at guard and then move to tackle when/if you move on from Cam.
Or let them openly compete for the job with the loser sliding to guard?

Lance Zeirlein at NFL.com puts him as a RT or G. And comps him to Bryan Bulaga.
3 out 4 guys at The Draft Network essentially slot him as a guard (or RT) with one comp being CAM ROBINSON
Daniel Jeremiah projects Wirfs as an elite guard prospect.

What do you know that they don't? PFF grades? People need to stop going to the site man lol
Taylor is our RT, for at least another couple seasons. So if you like Wirfs and want him on the roster, he's going to start at RG, the only spot on the line that was in flux last season.
If you're looking for a Cam Robinson replacement/upgrade you should be hoping for Becton, Jones, or maybe Wills (though he only played RT, it was the blindside of Tua's offense)

Moving players around isn't conducive to their development early on as an offensive lineman. If they take Wirfs at #9 it's going to be to play LT bar Cam turning into an actually good LT in this offseason. 

Wirfs has all the traits to play LT, has the athletic ability, has actually good tape there (even if 200 odd snaps) and it's the more valuable spot too. So yeah the only reason not to play him there is Cam becoming something he hasn't shown yet, and his contract is up soon too

Also Cam is a terrible comp for Wirfs

Then why did the coaches play him at RT?
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#39

(03-27-2020, 10:39 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(03-27-2020, 10:02 AM)JackCity Wrote: Moving players around isn't conducive to their development early on as an offensive lineman. If they take Wirfs at #9 it's going to be to play LT bar Cam turning into an actually good LT in this offseason. 

Wirfs has all the traits to play LT, has the athletic ability, has actually good tape there (even if 200 odd snaps) and it's the more valuable spot too. So yeah the only reason not to play him there is Cam becoming something he hasn't shown yet, and his contract is up soon too

Also Cam is a terrible comp for Wirfs

Then why did the coaches play him at RT?

Cuz those coaches are dumb, obviously.
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#40

(03-26-2020, 04:09 PM)Upper Wrote:
(03-26-2020, 03:30 PM)Kane Wrote: That's not true. He had a rookie year which he wasn't bad (only 2 sacks allowed). Then tore an ACL. And had a year that he wasn't really good but was still coming back from said ACL. And PFF has given him average grades over his 32 games. Not poor ones. Cam's biggest issue, imo, is penalties. Which I think comes with maturity and time.
Taylor was a rookie last year and improved greatly over the final 8 games.

If you can have a guy come in and be a pro bowler at G or "give him a shot at OT" I'd take the pro bowler
And Lance Zierlein comp'd him to Cam Robinson

Cam led the league in pressures allowed, gave up a league high 3+ pressures in a whopping 10 different games, and was like 4th in penalties as a rookie. He was awful sorry. I am really not a fan of revisionist history.

Yeah if I recall correctly he had some rookie struggles vs some of the league's best pass rushers. But he was only responsible for giving up 2 sacks. And in 29 of his 31 starts he was either a rookie or coming off a major injury. I don't think he's put enough tape out there to call him a bust. But that's just me personally.

Don't get it twisted, I'm all about moving Cam inside or replacing him if there is a better LT to replace him with.
I'm just not ready to replace him with a guy most of the experts (ya know guys who know more than us and get paid so) pin as a RT or OG in the NFL.
But I'm all about drafting Wirfs since most of the experts consider he could be an all-pro guard.
I'm even open to the idea of him competing with Cam Robinson if the coaches want to see what he's got. I'm just not sure why you think a guy with like 3 total starts at LT in college is going to come in and be substantially better than what we have now.... But maybe you get paid to scout for the NFL or something and just hang out here for fun?
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