You do realize owners CAN'T really force GMs to do what they want right? you do realize some people have self respect and either they dont take the job or they can resign, right?

So according to you Khan is pretty much like Jerry (with much less knowlegde about football)? bring the proof that Caldwell was against hiring Bradley (one thing is he liked someone better and another, much different thing, is that he was against hiring him). Bring the proof that he was told to tear down the roster Gene Smith left (which is completely BS and this guy just made up). Come on bring the proof, I'll wait.

Either way, if he was "forced" (lol) or those were his choices, it is pretty clear Caldwell is not the right person.

That's the whole issue the rest of us are talking about. WE DON'T KNOW. We don't know what power he had, who said for him to do this or that. We don't know what influence Khan had on any of the choices, we don't know what influence Coughlin had on any of the choices. It's all speculation. That's what makes this whole thing into a debate/discussion. You can claim anything you want about the guy, but unless you were in there to see and hear what was said and how things are done, you have no clue. Without the facts there will always be a couple different sides of opinions. 

He very well could be the route cause to all the issues we have seen the Jags experience since his time here or maybe he was directed to follow others opinions. I lean more towards the second part of that. If that wasn't the case, then why did Khan bring in Coughlin in the first place? Why didn't Kahn fire Caldwell and bring in a new GM at that time? I don't think its far fetched to assume either Kahn didn't like the choices Caldwell was making or possibly with him being a fairly new owner and not knowing much about football, he brought him in to make sure Caldwell was making the correct choices. 

If the later is correct and Coughlin did like we KNOW he did and did whatever the f he wanted (ex:fines) who's to say he didn't do the same with the team choices being made? If Kahn doesn't have that much faith in Caldwell, chances are hes siding with Coughlin.

And yes, everyone has the choice to their job, but that doesn't mean Caldwell doesn't like what he does. There's only 31 other positions and the chances of getting in one of them with a background history like the Jags have had, isn't going to be super high.

So no proof? just pure speculation and made up excuses for a guy who failed at getting a good HC, a good QB and has a pathetic winning record.

Obviously he should be the GM of the Jags until he dies.

Enjoy another losing season under Caldwell.

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

You do realize that when an Owner says to do something, GM or not, You have to listen to him. Example: Cowboys. Jerry Jones makes way too many calls that has hurt that franchise.

Then when the owner brings in someone to make the final calls OVER the GM, once again, you have to listen to him. You try going rouge and doing whatever you want and you end up like Coughlin without a job... oh wait, thats exactly why Coughlin is without a job.

You do realize owners CAN'T really force GMs to do what they want right? 

LOL
You've posted novels full of dumb [BLEEP] here, but this one may take the cake. 
Congratulations on achieving full herp-derp idiocy. 
Your alternative suggestion to Caldwell hiring Bradley at the behest of the Khans is that he should resign from a job he just accepted that's considered to be the pinnacle position of his career -  because he prefered a different hire to coach the team OWNED by his EMPLOYER who is telling him who to hire. 
Just stop. You're making a fool of yourself.

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You do realize owners CAN'T really force GMs to do what they want right? 

LOL
You've posted novels full of dumb [BLEEP] here, but this one may take the cake. 
Congratulations on achieving full herp-derp idiocy. 
Your alternative suggestion to Caldwell hiring Bradley at the behest of the Khans is that he should resign from a job he just accepted that's considered to be the pinnacle position of his career -  because he prefered a different hire to coach the team OWNED by his EMPLOYER who is telling him who to hire. 
Just stop. You're making a fool of yourself.

Ok. Mr garbage mod, if you say so. 

At least the other guy understood what I was saying.

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

You do realize owners CAN'T really force GMs to do what they want right? 

You're making a fool of yourself.

Par the course really

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For the record I didn’t mean to imply I believe Khan shoved Bradley down Dave’s throat or gave him an ultimatum.

Probably closer to as they went through the interview process, they narrowed down their targets, and while there may have been someone Dave slightly preferred, he was fine with Gus...and could tell Khan was smitten by his energy/personality, and that Gus was Khan’s preferred target when they compared their impressions. The fact that he already knew he was looking at probably a rough couple years to start, and with a very young/impressionable roster, further cemented Gus as a perceived ‘fit’.

I don’t know why HauntingRaven is so fixated on my post, which I thought was pretty mild endorsement at best of Dave. I said in the second sentence the results haven’t been good enough given what he’s had as capital.

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For the record I didn’t mean to imply I believe Khan shoved Bradley down Dave’s throat or gave him an ultimatum.  

Probably closer to as they went through the interview process, they narrowed down their targets, and while there may have been someone Dave slightly preferred, he was fine with Gus...and could tell Khan was smitten by his energy/personality, and that Gus was Khan’s preferred target when they compared their impressions. The fact that he already knew he was looking at probably a rough couple years to start, and with a very young/impressionable roster, further cemented Gus as a perceived ‘fit’.  

I don’t know why HauntingRaven is so fixated on my post, which I thought was pretty mild endorsement at best of Dave.  I said in the second sentence the results haven’t been good enough given what he’s had as capital.

 Your speculation of how it may have gone down is very reasonable based on all the information that eventually came out of the Bradley era. 

Pay no mind to the troll.

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I think Dave is bad and should have been fired ages ago + think it's insane he's been given a huge amount of new draft capital and money to rebuild the team.

However seeing as how he still is GM for this season and most likely next season too there is some light. Step 1) is find a QB, whether minshew or otherwise and step 2) is get a quality coaching staff if (when) the current group flounders this year

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It's really really simple. If Blake Bortles had been on par with Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson, we wouldn't be having this conversation. That's all there it to it.

You guys are making this way too complicated.

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Is Caldwell that bad? Look at the record as him as GM. The one successful season he wasn't even the man in 2017 it was Coughlin. Caldwell sucks, decent scout but not a good GM at all.

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Is Caldwell that bad?  Look at the record as him as GM.  The one successful season he wasn't even the man in 2017 it was Coughlin.  Caldwell sucks, decent scout but not a good GM at all.

Summed up perfectly. Lets sticky this post to the front page so everyone gets. Everyone making excuses for a man that overall has not got it done. We should't care what could or or should of happened we have sucked under him so he is a bad GM period. Making it way to complicated.

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Is Caldwell that bad? Look at the record as him as GM. The one successful season he wasn't even the man in 2017 it was Coughlin. Caldwell sucks, decent scout but not a good GM at all.

Is Caldwell that bad?  Look at the record as him as GM.  The one successful season he wasn't even the man in 2017 it was Coughlin.  Caldwell sucks, decent scout but not a good GM at all.

Summed up perfectly. Lets sticky this post to the front page so everyone gets. Everyone making excuses for a man that overall has not got it done. We should't care what could or or should of happened we have sucked under him so he is a bad GM period. Making it way to complicated.

Except that one good season was with a roster he (Caldwell) built.
Coughlin had just showed up. Added Fournette and Robinson to the offense via draft (Coughlin guys that almost no one on this board likes) And added Campbell, Bouye, and Church via free agency. The defensive additions were on point sure, but also gave us a bit of a cap hindrance that we hit this season.

That season was good with a team that Caldwell mostly built without Coughlin. Linder, Parnell, Cann, and Omameh were 4 OL guys brought in before Coughlin. Bortles was the QB, and love him or hate him it was clearly his best season.
Pro bowlers from that team that Coughlin had nothing to do with: Ramsey, Telvin Smith, Malik, and Yannick.

A bunch of other guys on that team that Coughlin had nothing to do with: Poz, Jack, Fowler Jr, pretty much all of the WRs & TEs.

I mean, you guys can keep arguing it over and over again, Caldwell had a hand in the successes and failures of this team since he's showed up. He's had good draft selections and bad ones. Same with free agency.
But to discredit 2017 and say that was Coughlin isn't just disingenious it's flat out wrong.
But Coughlin's hand in over spending for free agents (which isn't something new) and his alienating players (also, not new) is pretty much the #1 reason our roster is in its current state as opposed to building upon what good had been built by 2017.
Every decision, draft selection, free agent signing, and contract extension since Coughlin's arrival ran though him. So Bortles' extension, Lee's extension, paying Jack before Ramsey and Yannick, Taven Bryan over Jackson, drafting Fournette over CMC, etc etc. That's on Coughlin, not Caldwell.

I don't hold Caldwell to some high regard though. We should have moved on probably twice already. I just call bull when I see it. And to pretend like Caldwell had nothing to do with 2017 and Coughlin was the reason for our success is laughable, otherwise, we would have continued to be successful beyond that one year.

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If this organization was half way functional, Caldwell would of been fired years ago. However, this is the DYSFUNCTIONAL Jacksonville Jaguars. Baloney Maroney, Todd Wash, and every other coach who did a horrible job last year just got a complete pass. Only in jacksonville where players vacation.

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Without Coughlin we don't get Calais or Bouye. They both had quotes that said Coughlin's track record was a key part for them choosing us over other strong offers.

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Without Coughlin we don't get Calais or Bouye. They both had quotes that said Coughlin's track record was a key part for them choosing us over other strong offers.

A key part =/= only reason.
So no way of knowing if we don't get them.

Money talks and they both signed lucrative contracts.

Even still, I don't know that we don't make a solid playoff run even without them. Ramsey was a stud that year. Yannick was legit. 
The majority of that 2017 roster was built without Coughlin.
Facts.

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Without Coughlin we don't get Calais or Bouye. They both had quotes that said Coughlin's track record was a key part for them choosing us over other strong offers.

Calais was about to sign with Denver until we offered another $3m++...

They signed here because of the money. Maybe Coughlin had a tiny bit to do with it, but us being the highest bidder was 99% of the reason why they signed here.

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Without Coughlin we don't get Calais or Bouye. They both had quotes that said Coughlin's track record was a key part for them choosing us over other strong offers.

Calais was about to sign with Denver until we offered another $3m++...

They signed here because of the money. Maybe Coughlin had a tiny bit to do with it, but us being the highest bidder was 99% of the reason why they signed here.

Agreed. Coughlin might have made Calais feel respected and wanted, but money was the critical factor. Put yourself in any pro athlete's shoes. You have only a limited window of years, none guaranteed, to maximize your payout. You'll never have a crack at that kind of monopoly money after your career is over. Does it matter which team you go to (aside from state income tax considerations)? Unless you're a 10-year veteran, you'd be foolish to take a pay cut to play with a winner.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

Without Coughlin we don't get Calais or Bouye. They both had quotes that said Coughlin's track record was a key part for them choosing us over other strong offers.

I believe you are mistaken for Bouye. I remember comments that he only dealt with Dave. Definitely agree re. Calias

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Is Caldwell that bad?  Look at the record as him as GM.  The one successful season he wasn't even the man in 2017 it was Coughlin.  Caldwell sucks, decent scout but not a good GM at all.

Summed up perfectly. Lets sticky this post to the front page so everyone gets. Everyone making excuses for a man that overall has not got it done. We should't care what could or or should of happened we have sucked under him so he is a bad GM period. Making it way to complicated.

Except that one good season was with a roster he (Caldwell) built.
Coughlin had just showed up. Added Fournette and Robinson to the offense via draft (Coughlin guys that almost no one on this board likes) And added Campbell, Bouye, and Church via free agency. The defensive additions were on point sure, but also gave us a bit of a cap hindrance that we hit this season.

That season was good with a team that Caldwell mostly built without Coughlin. Linder, Parnell, Cann, and Omameh were 4 OL guys brought in before Coughlin. Bortles was the QB, and love him or hate him it was clearly his best season.
Pro bowlers from that team that Coughlin had nothing to do with: Ramsey, Telvin Smith, Malik, and Yannick.

A bunch of other guys on that team that Coughlin had nothing to do with: Poz, Jack, Fowler Jr, pretty much all of the WRs & TEs.

I mean, you guys can keep arguing it over and over again, Caldwell had a hand in the successes and failures of this team since he's showed up. He's had good draft selections and bad ones. Same with free agency.
But to discredit 2017 and say that was Coughlin isn't just disingenious it's flat out wrong.
But Coughlin's hand in over spending for free agents (which isn't something new) and his alienating players (also, not new) is pretty much the #1 reason our roster is in its current state as opposed to building upon what good had been built by 2017.
Every decision, draft selection, free agent signing, and contract extension since Coughlin's arrival ran though him. So Bortles' extension, Lee's extension, paying Jack before Ramsey and Yannick, Taven Bryan over Jackson, drafting Fournette over CMC, etc etc. That's on Coughlin, not Caldwell.

I don't hold Caldwell to some high regard though. We should have moved on probably twice already. I just call bull when I see it. And to pretend like Caldwell had nothing to do with 2017 and Coughlin was the reason for our success is laughable, otherwise, we would have continued to be successful beyond that one year.

This is the issue. All we are basing this on is that Caldwell was here for a certain number or years, for those years the team was bad. One year 2017, when Coughlin gets here,  a former Super Bowl winning coach and was the coach when we were good. The one year we turn it around and are good. Coughlin is gone again and we suck again. 

No one is saying that it is guaranteed that Coughlin made us good for 2017. We are saying that no matter what different circumstances that have happened that year and allowed us to be good, it def wasn't just Caldwell that did it. 

Just really understand, Caldwell is a GM, he has picked some good players and some have fallen into his lap but overall with not being able to retain that talent and missing on different picks at key positions at the same time keeping coaches who are no good, plus our overall losing record under him, He is a bad GM, he may be an ok scout or college talent evaluator. 

Stop making things more complicated by coming up with things we don't know for sure about and what may have happened behind closed doors.
JUST LOOk AT THE RESULTS and THE CURRENT STATE OF THE FRANCHISE SINCE HE HAS BECOME GM

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Except that one good season was with a roster he (Caldwell) built.
Coughlin had just showed up. Added Fournette and Robinson to the offense via draft (Coughlin guys that almost no one on this board likes) And added Campbell, Bouye, and Church via free agency. The defensive additions were on point sure, but also gave us a bit of a cap hindrance that we hit this season.

That season was good with a team that Caldwell mostly built without Coughlin. Linder, Parnell, Cann, and Omameh were 4 OL guys brought in before Coughlin. Bortles was the QB, and love him or hate him it was clearly his best season.
Pro bowlers from that team that Coughlin had nothing to do with: Ramsey, Telvin Smith, Malik, and Yannick.

A bunch of other guys on that team that Coughlin had nothing to do with: Poz, Jack, Fowler Jr, pretty much all of the WRs & TEs.

I mean, you guys can keep arguing it over and over again, Caldwell had a hand in the successes and failures of this team since he's showed up. He's had good draft selections and bad ones. Same with free agency.
But to discredit 2017 and say that was Coughlin isn't just disingenious it's flat out wrong.
But Coughlin's hand in over spending for free agents (which isn't something new) and his alienating players (also, not new) is pretty much the #1 reason our roster is in its current state as opposed to building upon what good had been built by 2017.
Every decision, draft selection, free agent signing, and contract extension since Coughlin's arrival ran though him. So Bortles' extension, Lee's extension, paying Jack before Ramsey and Yannick, Taven Bryan over Jackson, drafting Fournette over CMC, etc etc. That's on Coughlin, not Caldwell.

I don't hold Caldwell to some high regard though. We should have moved on probably twice already. I just call bull when I see it. And to pretend like Caldwell had nothing to do with 2017 and Coughlin was the reason for our success is laughable, otherwise, we would have continued to be successful beyond that one year.

This is the issue. All we are basing this on is that Caldwell was here for a certain number or years, for those years the team was bad. One year 2017, when Coughlin gets here,  a former Super Bowl winning coach and was the coach when we were good. The one year we turn it around and are good. Coughlin is gone again and we suck again. 

No one is saying that it is guaranteed that Coughlin made us good for 2017. We are saying that no matter what different circumstances that have happened that year and allowed us to be good, it def wasn't just Caldwell that did it. 

Just really understand, Caldwell is a GM, he has picked some good players and some have fallen into his lap but overall with not being able to retain that talent and missing on different picks at key positions at the same time keeping coaches who are no good, plus our overall losing record under him, He is a bad GM, he may be an ok scout or college talent evaluator. 

Stop making things more complicated by coming up with things we don't know for sure about and what may have happened behind closed doors.
JUST LOOk AT THE RESULTS and THE CURRENT STATE OF THE FRANCHISE SINCE HE HAS BECOME GM

Per the bold: We sucked the very next year and Coughlin was still here. For 2 more seasons essentially.
Had Coughlin never showed up perhaps we end up with CMC instead of Fournette.
Perhaps we move on from Bortles instead of extending him.
Perhaps we pay Ramsey and Yan early and the defense remains elite for years.
Without Coughlin, we're probably still good in 2017 honestly.

You can capitalize words all you want. It doesn't change what I was arguing. 2017 wasn't good because of Coughlin. It was a roster mostly built by the GM Caldwell, with an easy schedule, a terrible AFCS, and a little bit of luck.
The roster was mostly made before Coughlin. It's in its current state mostly because of Coughlin. There's no two ways around it. It's only complicated for simple people who feel the need to bang the keyboard angrily that they aren't right.

Like I said, Caldwell hasn't been great. And we should have moved on multiple times now.
But trying to credit Coughlin with 2017 is asinine to say the least.
But one could look at the current roster and cap situation and certainly give a lot of that credit to Coughlin.

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It's really really simple.  If Blake Bortles had been on par with Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson, we wouldn't be having this conversation.   That's all there it to it.  

You guys are making this way too complicated.

I agree and let me add to the fact that if we had a coaching staff that knew how to develop players we would be in a better position as a franchise today then we are currently

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