Create Account



The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.
Iran's Centrifuge Plant Destroyed

#1

I didn't see this anywhere else, last week a fire (or more likely a bomb) destroyed part of the Natanz Nuclear Site.

FTA:


[font=georgia,]Two U.S.-based analysts who spoke to The Associated Press on Friday, relying on released pictures and satellite images, identified the affected building as Natanz’s new Iran Centrifuge Assembly Center. A satellite image on Friday by Planet Labs Inc., annotated by experts at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies at Middlebury Institute of International Studies, shows what appears to be damage done to half of the building.[/font]

[font=georgia,]Destroying a centrifuge assembly facility could greatly impact Iran’s ability to more-quickly enrich greater amounts of uranium, which would be a goal for either Israel or the U.S.[/font]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mid...story.html

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#2

Decoy building..............possibly a staged "accident" to make it appear the program has suffered a major setback?
When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.
Reply

#3

(07-09-2020, 08:48 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: I didn't see this anywhere else, last week a fire (or more likely a bomb) destroyed part of the Natanz Nuclear Site.

FTA:


[font=georgia,]Two U.S.-based analysts who spoke to The Associated Press on Friday, relying on released pictures and satellite images, identified the affected building as Natanz’s new Iran Centrifuge Assembly Center. A satellite image on Friday by Planet Labs Inc., annotated by experts at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies at Middlebury Institute of International Studies, shows what appears to be damage done to half of the building.[/font]

[font=georgia,]Destroying a centrifuge assembly facility could greatly impact Iran’s ability to more-quickly enrich greater amounts of uranium, which would be a goal for either Israel or the U.S.[/font]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mid...story.html

Last42 says that the AP needs to be disbanded.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply

#4

(07-09-2020, 09:35 PM)Sneakers Wrote: Decoy building..............possibly a staged "accident" to make it appear the program has suffered a major setback?

There were a few stories about hacking and a plant blowing up a week or 2 ago. It sounded like Israel may have done it, but it didn't get a lot of coverage. If it was fake, I would expect Iran to openly blame Israel. They are trying to say it was sabotage from within. The fact that they haven't blamed them, points to Israel having used some type of cyber attack to cause it to blow up.
Reply

#5

(07-10-2020, 03:27 AM)p_rushing Wrote:
(07-09-2020, 09:35 PM)Sneakers Wrote: Decoy building..............possibly a staged "accident" to make it appear the program has suffered a major setback?

There were a few stories about hacking and a plant blowing up a week or 2 ago. It sounded like Israel may have done it, but it didn't get a lot of coverage. If it was fake, I would expect Iran to openly blame Israel. They are trying to say it was sabotage from within. The fact that they haven't blamed them, points to Israel having used some type of cyber attack to cause it to blow up.

I'm not attacking your post or anything; I just have an honest question: how can a cyber attack cause something to blow up?  I'm not saying it can't; I'm just having a hard time coming up with a scenario where a cyber attack can cause an explosion.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#6

(07-10-2020, 05:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(07-10-2020, 03:27 AM)p_rushing Wrote: There were a few stories about hacking and a plant blowing up a week or 2 ago. It sounded like Israel may have done it, but it didn't get a lot of coverage. If it was fake, I would expect Iran to openly blame Israel. They are trying to say it was sabotage from within. The fact that they haven't blamed them, points to Israel having used some type of cyber attack to cause it to blow up.

I'm not attacking your post or anything; I just have an honest question: how can a cyber attack cause something to blow up?  I'm not saying it can't; I'm just having a hard time coming up with a scenario where a cyber attack can cause an explosion.

That would depend on the equipment being hacked. Stuxnet caused the centrifuges to self destruct by instructing them to spin faster than designed while simultaneously indicating that all was well. 
If the targeted equipment was used to regulate high pressures, temperatures, fuel rates, etc., it could be hacked to alter any of those quantities to beyond critical (explosive) parameters.
Reply

#7
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2020, 07:12 AM by Jagwired.)

(07-10-2020, 05:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: I'm not attacking your post or anything; I just have an honest question: how can a cyber attack cause something to blow up?  I'm not saying it can't; I'm just having a hard time coming up with a scenario where a cyber attack can cause an explosion.
Most modern plants are basically software interfacing with PLC's which interface and control mechanical functions. Such as coolant pumps, machinery that might handle and distribute enriched uranium, boilers, power generating equipment, pressure vessels and such. By gaining access to the operating systems many of these functions could be manipulated causing explosion.

Looks like Biscuit beat me to it.
Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 
Reply

#8
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2020, 07:12 AM by mikesez.)

(07-10-2020, 05:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(07-10-2020, 03:27 AM)p_rushing Wrote: There were a few stories about hacking and a plant blowing up a week or 2 ago. It sounded like Israel may have done it, but it didn't get a lot of coverage. If it was fake, I would expect Iran to openly blame Israel. They are trying to say it was sabotage from within. The fact that they haven't blamed them, points to Israel having used some type of cyber attack to cause it to blow up.

I'm not attacking your post or anything; I just have an honest question: how can a cyber attack cause something to blow up?  I'm not saying it can't; I'm just having a hard time coming up with a scenario where a cyber attack can cause an explosion.

The stuxnet virus caused Iranian machinery to spin much faster than its rated speed, breaking it.
It's easy to imagine a similar virus caused a temperature or pressure control system to allow conditions that would lead to an explosion.
The only reason we know about stuxnet is that the virus was found on computers worldwide, even though it would only activate on a specific model, German made control system.  This time, whoever wanted to screw with the Iranians might have had more help on the inside and no need to have a computer virus propagate worldwide. We may never find out.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply

#9

(07-10-2020, 05:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(07-10-2020, 03:27 AM)p_rushing Wrote: There were a few stories about hacking and a plant blowing up a week or 2 ago. It sounded like Israel may have done it, but it didn't get a lot of coverage. If it was fake, I would expect Iran to openly blame Israel. They are trying to say it was sabotage from within. The fact that they haven't blamed them, points to Israel having used some type of cyber attack to cause it to blow up.

I'm not attacking your post or anything; I just have an honest question: how can a cyber attack cause something to blow up?  I'm not saying it can't; I'm just having a hard time coming up with a scenario where a cyber attack can cause an explosion.

This is 2020. Plants aren't operating with our grandparents control systems.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#10

Psssh. Just tap the gauges!
Reply

#11

(07-10-2020, 07:15 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: Psssh. Just tap the gauges!

I could just see Marty watching the SpaceX launch last month scratching his chin where all the knobs went in the cockpit and how those pesky 3 flat screens in front of the astronauts were launching this rocket.

He then proceeded to put his Beatles 8-track into his car and jam out.
Reply

#12
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2020, 07:39 AM by The Real Marty.)

(07-10-2020, 07:10 AM)homebiscuit Wrote:
(07-10-2020, 05:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: I'm not attacking your post or anything; I just have an honest question: how can a cyber attack cause something to blow up?  I'm not saying it can't; I'm just having a hard time coming up with a scenario where a cyber attack can cause an explosion.

That would depend on the equipment being hacked. Stuxnet caused the centrifuges to self destruct by instructing them to spin faster than designed while simultaneously indicating that all was well. 
If the targeted equipment was used to regulate high pressures, temperatures, fuel rates, etc., it could be hacked to alter any of those quantities to beyond critical (explosive) parameters.

Aaaah, got it.  

(I do remember Stuxnet.)
 

(07-10-2020, 07:22 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(07-10-2020, 07:15 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: Psssh. Just tap the gauges!

I could just see Marty watching the SpaceX launch last month scratching his chin where all the knobs went in the cockpit and how those pesky 3 flat screens in front of the astronauts were launching this rocket.

He then proceeded to put his Beatles 8-track into his car and jam out.

Credit where it's due- that's pretty funny.
Reply

#13

(07-10-2020, 07:12 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(07-10-2020, 05:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: I'm not attacking your post or anything; I just have an honest question: how can a cyber attack cause something to blow up?  I'm not saying it can't; I'm just having a hard time coming up with a scenario where a cyber attack can cause an explosion.

This is 2020. Plants aren't operating with our grandparents control systems.

Unfortunately a lot of the systems are. I got first hand experience from a client, never went to a plant, but know about all the issues they have. The control systems are modernized somewhat in the command center, but once you are inside the contaminated area it is generally all original systems. You have people looking at paper manuals in the command center and contaminated area. It's challenging to get signals in and out, they are in spotty cell coverage areas, and access to sensor data is not readily available to the outside. So all the alerting and controlling programs are built to interact with the older and dumb systems that control the plant. There are big issues right now with trying to figure out what to connect to a network and what to limit access for. There is a lot of valuable data that can be captured, but if you open it up so you can get the data, you expose the plant to hacking.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#14

I think people would be shocked if they knew how much critical stuff operates on older technology.  Stuff that has been "modernized" still operates the same way.  A "modernized" system still "pushes a button" or "adjusts a knob" based on a reading that it "sees" from a "gauge".  In the case of the latest launch to space by SpaceX, those "knobs, switches, buttons and gauges" are still there.  The only difference is they aren't physical mechanical devices, they are "virtual" devices presented on a touch screen.

A concept of "hacking 101" is to look at how something works and understand it, then see what else it could do.  Can I make this gauge (physical or virtual) read a different value?  Can I make this knob (again physical or virtual) do something different other than it's intended purpose?

It doesn't take something having to be connected to the internet, stuxnet proved that.  All it takes is a little bit of "social engineering".  Drop a thumb drive in a parking lot with some malware and a few bogus pictures on it.  Somebody will find it, plug it into their computer just to "see what's on it" and you have a spread.

By the way, what stuxnet did was not just spin the centrifuges faster than rated.  It would do so then abruptly stop them and start them up again.  Imagine driving a car to 100 mph then slamming it into park, then repeating it.  Your transmission wouldn't last very long doing something like that.  That is exactly what stuxnet did.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Reply




Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.


ABOUT US
The Jungle Forums is the Jaguars' biggest fan message board. Talking about the Jags since 2006, the Jungle was the team-endorsed home of all things Jaguars.

Since 2017, the Jungle is now independent of the team but still run by the same crew. We are here to support and discuss all things Jaguars and all things Duval!