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IQ Thread

#21

IQ discussion moved here.
If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley

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#22
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2020, 09:41 PM by Lucky2Last.)

Aptitude is not IQ. It measures your ability to apply what you should know. IQ is trying to test what you don't know. My wife is a super hard worker, and has excelled at most things her whole life. She was even invited by Yale to apply. She's scored in the highest percentiles on all of her tests, but I would wager that she is just shy of 130. If she can work for it and learn it, she will crush any test you put before her.

A higher IQ mind should be able to look at something and begin extrapolating information right away. You can typically tell where someone is based on three things: How quickly do they recall information, how quickly can they apply it, and how quickly can they deduce new information from what was given without being told. Mikesez, If I had to guess, I'd say you're somewhere in the upper 120's, which is a respectable number, but probably not what you want to hear. You should use some of that engineering money and take a real IQ test if you're curious.

Also, can you change the title of this thread before it gets locked down, too? Don't want to get too far off topic.

Thanks RJ.
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#23

There's an IQ test in the add below. I'm freaking out man...
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Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.
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#24
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2020, 06:16 AM by The Real Marty.)

I don't want to take an IQ test.  I think it would probably be very deflating.  We've all got an ego.  It reminds me of a survey I read about, which found that 90% of people think they are above average drivers.  Obviously that is logically impossible.  And it's probably the same way with intelligence.  Most people probably think they are smarter than they actually are.   Probably including me.
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#25

(08-02-2020, 05:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: I don't want to take an IQ test.  I think it would probably be very deflating.  We've all got an ego.  It reminds me of a survey I read about, which found that 90% of people think they are above average drivers.  Obviously that is logically impossible.  And it's probably the same way with intelligence.  Most people probably think they are smarter than they actually are.   Probably including me.

Everyone's the hero of their own story. Some folks just try to convince everyone else of that truth.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#26
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2020, 10:51 AM by Lucky2Last.)

Yeah, I have a friend that thought he was much higher and scored a 111, which really made perfect sense to me. He was smarter than average, but he wasn't exactly bringing new stuff to the table. He was quick to learn and apply, but whenever he went off-script, it almost always resulted in disaster.

I think a good way to self-diagnose would be to answer the following question: If you were in a room with 100 random strangers, how many people would be smarter than you? If you're willing to play the game in good faith and not try to argue the details of the question, you'd probably get close to your IQ. Anyone want to answer the question?
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#27

(08-02-2020, 10:49 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Yeah, I have a friend that thought he was much higher and scored a 111, which really made perfect sense to me. He was smarter than average, but he wasn't exactly bringing new stuff to the table. He was quick to learn and apply, but whenever he went off-script, it almost always resulted in disaster.

I think a good way to self-diagnose would be to answer the following question: If you were in a room with 100 random strangers, how many people would be smarter than you? If you're willing to play the game in good faith and not try to argue the details of the question, you'd probably get close to your IQ. Anyone want to answer the question?

I'll say 20. I believe that IQ distribution fits a bell curve, so if I'm smarter than the median then stats say I'm probably around the top 20% of that 100 people. That also fits with my formal testing in the past. I also know a few people who are the outliers at both end and can realistically say I'm neither of those.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#28

I'm not even certain what my IQ is but I do know that it's been proven that many people with really high IQs lack common sense. As such, I must not be at genius level because I do know I have a lot of common sense.
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#29
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2020, 04:37 PM by mikesez.)

(08-01-2020, 09:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Aptitude is not IQ. It measures your ability to apply what you should know. IQ is trying to test what you don't know. My wife is a super hard worker, and has excelled at most things her whole life. She was even invited by Yale to apply. She's scored in the highest percentiles on all of her tests, but I would wager that she is just shy of 130. If she can work for it and learn it, she will crush any test you put before her.

A higher IQ mind should be able to look at something and begin extrapolating information right away. You can typically tell where someone is based on three things: How quickly do they recall information, how quickly can they apply it, and how quickly can they deduce new information from what was given without being told. Mikesez, If I had to guess, I'd say you're somewhere in the upper 120's, which is a respectable number, but probably not what you want to hear. You should use some of that engineering money and take a real IQ test if you're curious.

Also, can you change the title of this thread before it gets locked down, too? Don't want to get too far off topic.

Thanks RJ.

They tested me for gifted right at the beginning of first grade, and I "passed". They told me it was an IQ test, and they told me that passing it indicated an IQ of at least 120.
Later, I found out that they don't screen everyone, and my parents didn't want me screened. The teacher had asked them to screen me. She saw an opportunity to get me out of her classroom one day a week and she took it.

The general observation that people with high IQ lack  "common sense" is not quite true. "Common sense" usually means a social consensus that people don't want to waste time arguing about. Most people pick "common sense" up from their parents and other elders without much deliberate effort. The people who do not pick these things up at all are not necessarily more or less intelligent than anybody else, they just lack a certain type of social intelligence.  There are some highly intelligent people that have simply missed the cues of common sense and other highly intelligent people who understand common sense perfectly, but nonetheless want to change society by questioning it.

One of the pressure points in society today is that the percentage of people who want to challenge "common sense" keeps growing. Common sense maxims that used to be a lot less controversial than they are today:

"The American military protects freedom here and abroad"
"This is a republic, not a democracy."
"A rising tide lifts all boats"
"Competition makes businesses better."
"A bunch of small, competing businesses is healthier than one big conglomerate."
"Employers should be held liable if the employee gets hurt or sick at work."
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#30

(08-02-2020, 10:49 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Yeah, I have a friend that thought he was much higher and scored a 111, which really made perfect sense to me. He was smarter than average, but he wasn't exactly bringing new stuff to the table. He was quick to learn and apply, but whenever he went off-script, it almost always resulted in disaster.

I think a good way to self-diagnose would be to answer the following question: If you were in a room with 100 random strangers, how many people would be smarter than you? If you're willing to play the game in good faith and not try to argue the details of the question, you'd probably get close to your IQ. Anyone want to answer the question?

Great question.  What is the context?  Do I have solve an algebra question?  The stress load of a 6 foot 2x4?  The nitrogen to ammonia ratio level to create a bomb?  How much current does it take to drive a 24 volt dc motor?  When to plant corn in NE Ohio vs SW Mississippi?  

I trust your IQ is sufficient to get my point.  

Not a dig at all just to be clear.  IQ means nothing in the real world.  Your potential to understand will never compare to the [BLEEP] that knows exactly what is going on.
Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

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#31
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2020, 04:26 PM by The Real Marty.)

(08-02-2020, 04:00 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(08-01-2020, 09:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Aptitude is not IQ. It measures your ability to apply what you should know. IQ is trying to test what you don't know. My wife is a super hard worker, and has excelled at most things her whole life. She was even invited by Yale to apply. She's scored in the highest percentiles on all of her tests, but I would wager that she is just shy of 130. If she can work for it and learn it, she will crush any test you put before her.

A higher IQ mind should be able to look at something and begin extrapolating information right away. You can typically tell where someone is based on three things: How quickly do they recall information, how quickly can they apply it, and how quickly can they deduce new information from what was given without being told. Mikesez, If I had to guess, I'd say you're somewhere in the upper 120's, which is a respectable number, but probably not what you want to hear. You should use some of that engineering money and take a real IQ test if you're curious.

Also, can you change the title of this thread before it gets locked down, too? Don't want to get too far off topic.

Thanks RJ.

They tested me for gifted right at the beginning of first grade, and I "passed". They told me it was an IQ test, and they told me that passing it indicated an IQ of at least 120.
Later, I found out that they don't screen everyone, and my parents didn't want me screened. The teacher had asked them to screen me. She saw an opportunity to get me out of her classroom one day a week and she took it.

The general observation that people with high IQ lack  "common sense" is not quite true. "Common sense" usually means a social consensus that people don't want to waste time arguing about. Most people pick "common sense" up from their parents and other elders without much deliberate effort. The people who do not pick these things up at all are not necessarily more or less intelligent than anybody else, they just lack a certain type of social intelligence.  There are some highly intelligent people that have simply missed the cues of common sense and other highly intelligent people who understand common sense perfectly, but nonetheless want to change society by questioning it.

One of the pressure points in society today is that the percentage of people who want to challenge "common sense" keeps growing. Common sense maxims that used to be a lot less controversial than they are today:

"The American military protects freedom here and abroad"
"This is a republic, not a democracy."
"A rising tide lifts all boats"
"Competition makes businesses better."
"A bunch of small, competing businesses is healthier than one big conglomerate."
"Employers should be held liable if the employee gets sick at work."

That's not common sense.  Common sense is defined as "good sense and sound judgment in practical matters."  Common sense means you have the ability to make sound choices in life and that you have the ability to accomplish a mundane task.  For example, a person would lack common sense if they can't figure out how to use a washing machine, or if they can't remember to wait for the light to change before crossing the street.  

What you are citing is more along the lines of "commonly accepted truth."  Which is something else entirely.  
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#32

(08-02-2020, 04:24 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(08-02-2020, 04:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: They tested me for gifted right at the beginning of first grade, and I "passed". They told me it was an IQ test, and they told me that passing it indicated an IQ of at least 120.
Later, I found out that they don't screen everyone, and my parents didn't want me screened. The teacher had asked them to screen me. She saw an opportunity to get me out of her classroom one day a week and she took it.

The general observation that people with high IQ lack  "common sense" is not quite true. "Common sense" usually means a social consensus that people don't want to waste time arguing about. Most people pick "common sense" up from their parents and other elders without much deliberate effort. The people who do not pick these things up at all are not necessarily more or less intelligent than anybody else, they just lack a certain type of social intelligence.  There are some highly intelligent people that have simply missed the cues of common sense and other highly intelligent people who understand common sense perfectly, but nonetheless want to change society by questioning it.

One of the pressure points in society today is that the percentage of people who want to challenge "common sense" keeps growing. Common sense maxims that used to be a lot less controversial than they are today:

"The American military protects freedom here and abroad"
"This is a republic, not a democracy."
"A rising tide lifts all boats"
"Competition makes businesses better."
"A bunch of small, competing businesses is healthier than one big conglomerate."
"Employers should be held liable if the employee gets sick at work."

That's not common sense.  Common sense is defined as "good sense and sound judgment in practical matters."  Common sense means you have the ability to make sound choices in life and that you have the ability to accomplish a mundane task.  For example, a person would lack common sense if they can't figure out how to use a washing machine, or if they can't remember to wait for the light to change before crossing the street.  

What you are citing is more along the lines of "commonly accepted truth."  Which is something else entirely.  

I guess I've always taken for granted that I can figure out household appliances and figure out my way from point a to point B with just road signs and a map. I'm pretty good at that compared to others, actually. The one thing I lacked was, "leave the poor teacher alone while she's talking to the other students."
when people are using the term  "common sense" against me, it is almost always something regarding one of the things you call a "commonly accepted truth."
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#33
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2020, 04:50 PM by p_rushing.)

(08-02-2020, 04:00 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(08-01-2020, 09:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Aptitude is not IQ. It measures your ability to apply what you should know. IQ is trying to test what you don't know. My wife is a super hard worker, and has excelled at most things her whole life. She was even invited by Yale to apply. She's scored in the highest percentiles on all of her tests, but I would wager that she is just shy of 130. If she can work for it and learn it, she will crush any test you put before her.

A higher IQ mind should be able to look at something and begin extrapolating information right away. You can typically tell where someone is based on three things: How quickly do they recall information, how quickly can they apply it, and how quickly can they deduce new information from what was given without being told. Mikesez, If I had to guess, I'd say you're somewhere in the upper 120's, which is a respectable number, but probably not what you want to hear. You should use some of that engineering money and take a real IQ test if you're curious.

Also, can you change the title of this thread before it gets locked down, too? Don't want to get too far off topic.

Thanks RJ.

They tested me for gifted right at the beginning of first grade, and I "passed". They told me it was an IQ test, and they told me that passing it indicated an IQ of at least 120.
Later, I found out that they don't screen everyone, and my parents didn't want me screened. The teacher had asked them to screen me. She saw an opportunity to get me out of her classroom one day a week and she took it.

The general observation that people with high IQ lack  "common sense" is not quite true. "Common sense" usually means a social consensus that people don't want to waste time arguing about. Most people pick "common sense" up from their parents and other elders without much deliberate effort. The people who do not pick these things up at all are not necessarily more or less intelligent than anybody else, they just lack a certain type of social intelligence.  There are some highly intelligent people that have simply missed the cues of common sense and other highly intelligent people who understand common sense perfectly, but nonetheless want to change society by questioning it.

Generally gifted program is 130, unless they have changed it. I think some poor kids can get in with a lower score. As it is not all IQ, there are some interviews/observations, you can be allowed in on a judgment call but you have to be very close to 130.

The higher the IQ, the worse off you will be after a certain point. Over 160 and you are going to start having problems in the real world. IQ doesn't mean you will be successful as you have to be motivated to succeed at anything. That is one of the challenges for gifted kids in school. People with high IQs work in all different lines of work. Look at Mensa, even though I would never join, there are all different types of people.
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#34
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2020, 05:12 PM by The Real Marty.)

(08-02-2020, 04:36 PM)Yes mikesez Wrote:
(08-02-2020, 04:24 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: That's not common sense.  Common sense is defined as "good sense and sound judgment in practical matters."  Common sense means you have the ability to make sound choices in life and that you have the ability to accomplish a mundane task.  For example, a person would lack common sense if they can't figure out how to use a washing machine, or if they can't remember to wait for the light to change before crossing the street.  

What you are citing is more along the lines of "commonly accepted truth."  Which is something else entirely.  

I guess I've always taken for granted that I can figure out household appliances and figure out my way from point a to point B with just road signs and a map. I'm pretty good at that compared to others, actually. The one thing I lacked was, "leave the poor teacher alone while she's talking to the other students."
when people are using the term  "common sense" against me, it is almost always something regarding one of the things you call a "commonly accepted truth."

 Common sense is something like, “ turn off the main water valve before you start working on the plumbing.”

 The things you cited are opinions, not common sense.
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#35
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2020, 05:03 PM by mikesez.)

(08-02-2020, 04:50 PM)p_rushing Wrote:
(08-02-2020, 04:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: They tested me for gifted right at the beginning of first grade, and I "passed". They told me it was an IQ test, and they told me that passing it indicated an IQ of at least 120.
Later, I found out that they don't screen everyone, and my parents didn't want me screened. The teacher had asked them to screen me. She saw an opportunity to get me out of her classroom one day a week and she took it.

The general observation that people with high IQ lack  "common sense" is not quite true. "Common sense" usually means a social consensus that people don't want to waste time arguing about. Most people pick "common sense" up from their parents and other elders without much deliberate effort. The people who do not pick these things up at all are not necessarily more or less intelligent than anybody else, they just lack a certain type of social intelligence.  There are some highly intelligent people that have simply missed the cues of common sense and other highly intelligent people who understand common sense perfectly, but nonetheless want to change society by questioning it.

Generally gifted program is 130, unless they have changed it. I think some poor kids can get in with a lower score. As it is not all IQ, there are some interviews/observations, you can be allowed in on a judgment call but you have to be very close to 130.

The higher the IQ, the worse off you will be after a certain point. Over 160 and you are going to start having problems in the real world. IQ doesn't mean you will be successful as you have to be motivated to succeed at anything. That is one of the challenges for gifted kids in school. People with high IQs work in all different lines of work. Look at Mensa, even though I would never join, there are all different types of people.

I might be misremembering. This was Jacksonville in the late '80s and early '90s. They might have told me 130 and I might be remembering it as 120... Or maybe they really told me I was somewhere north of 120, and they decided to make an exception for me because I clearly behaved better in the smaller gifted classroom. Even in my young age I said to myself, eh, that's just a number someone made up...
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#36

(08-02-2020, 05:02 PM)mikesez Wrote:
(08-02-2020, 04:50 PM)p_rushing Wrote: Generally gifted program is 130, unless they have changed it. I think some poor kids can get in with a lower score. As it is not all IQ, there are some interviews/observations, you can be allowed in on a judgment call but you have to be very close to 130.

The higher the IQ, the worse off you will be after a certain point. Over 160 and you are going to start having problems in the real world. IQ doesn't mean you will be successful as you have to be motivated to succeed at anything. That is one of the challenges for gifted kids in school. People with high IQs work in all different lines of work. Look at Mensa, even though I would never join, there are all different types of people.

I might be misremembering. This was Jacksonville in the late '80s and early '90s. They might have told me 130 and I might be remembering it as 120... Or maybe they really told me I was somewhere north of 120, and they decided to make an exception for me because I clearly behaved better in the smaller gifted classroom. Even in my young age I said to myself, eh, that's just a number someone made up...

Well, it's good to know you've always been so insufferable.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#37
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2020, 06:34 PM by Lucky2Last.)

Haha

The school gifted test doesn't measure IQ. It's an approximation that looks for one's ability to think outside the box. Many, many kids get in because teachers don't know the difference between aptitude and IQ. I think Hurricane and P_rush are correct. Kids as low as 135 can have problems adapting to the real word, but you don't start seeing the really bad quirks until 160. I feel like 130-160 folks kind of have their feet in both worlds, so to speak. Every kid I taught, and the few people I actually know that I suspect are above 160 have very obvious deficiencies in "common sense." They are super talented in whichever field catches their interest, though. It's almost like they have tunnel vision.
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#38

Wow so many geniuses right here on Duvalpride.com.
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#39

(08-02-2020, 04:18 PM)copycat Wrote:
(08-02-2020, 10:49 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Yeah, I have a friend that thought he was much higher and scored a 111, which really made perfect sense to me. He was smarter than average, but he wasn't exactly bringing new stuff to the table. He was quick to learn and apply, but whenever he went off-script, it almost always resulted in disaster.

I think a good way to self-diagnose would be to answer the following question: If you were in a room with 100 random strangers, how many people would be smarter than you? If you're willing to play the game in good faith and not try to argue the details of the question, you'd probably get close to your IQ. Anyone want to answer the question?

Great question.  What is the context?  Do I have solve an algebra question?  The stress load of a 6 foot 2x4?  The nitrogen to ammonia ratio level to create a bomb?  How much current does it take to drive a 24 volt dc motor?  When to plant corn in NE Ohio vs SW Mississippi?  

I trust your IQ is sufficient to get my point.  

Not a dig at all just to be clear.  IQ means nothing in the real world.  Your potential to understand will never compare to the [BLEEP] that knows exactly what is going on.

So the context is all about what you don't know. When I ask how many people are smarter than you, I am not asking who has learned something different than you. Imagine you're in a room with 100 people and you're all given a series of questions and no one there has an advantage of pre-existing knowledge with which to answer the question. There are materials there that will help  you learn some information that is repeatable, some information needs to be applied, and there will be some deductions that need to be made. If you're being honest with yourself, out of a room of 100 people, how many there do you think would be smarter than you? 1? 5? 10? 

Of course your last point is true. I have often said that intelligence alone is not worth anything. To that end, I definitely don't tout myself as any kind of example. My wife does far greater good than I have at this point in our lives, so I don't think IQ has any stand-alone merit. Often when discussing this, people tend to mistake crystallized intelligence for fluid intelligence. IQ is an attempt to predict the former, not the later. 

Some people subscribe to the idea that IQ measures a general intelligence, also known as the G factor. People who believe that think that people with a high G factor are good at learning anything they want. Others subscribe to a multiple intelligences theory. In this theory, they think there are multiple different areas of intelligence such as linguistic or musical ability. I am not as big a fan of multiple intelligences, because it seems to be trying to build it's theory around an idea, not data.
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#40

(08-02-2020, 06:52 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote:
(08-02-2020, 04:18 PM)copycat Wrote: Great question.  What is the context?  Do I have solve an algebra question?  The stress load of a 6 foot 2x4?  The nitrogen to ammonia ratio level to create a bomb?  How much current does it take to drive a 24 volt dc motor?  When to plant corn in NE Ohio vs SW Mississippi?  

I trust your IQ is sufficient to get my point.  

Not a dig at all just to be clear.  IQ means nothing in the real world.  Your potential to understand will never compare to the [BLEEP] that knows exactly what is going on.

So the context is all about what you don't know. When I ask how many people are smarter than you, I am not asking who has learned something different than you. Imagine you're in a room with 100 people and you're all given a series of questions and no one there has an advantage of pre-existing knowledge with which to answer the question. There are materials there that will help  you learn some information that is repeatable, some information needs to be applied, and there will be some deductions that need to be made. If you're being honest with yourself, out of a room of 100 people, how many there do you think would be smarter than you? 1? 5? 10? 

Of course your last point is true. I have often said that intelligence alone is not worth anything. To that end, I definitely don't tout myself as any kind of example. My wife does far greater good than I have at this point in our lives, so I don't think IQ has any stand-alone merit. Often when discussing this, people tend to mistake crystallized intelligence for fluid intelligence. IQ is an attempt to predict the former, not the later. 

Some people subscribe to the idea that IQ measures a general intelligence, also known as the G factor. People who believe that think that people with a high G factor are good at learning anything they want. Others subscribe to a multiple intelligences theory. In this theory, they think there are multiple different areas of intelligence such as linguistic or musical ability. I am not as big a fan of multiple intelligences, because it seems to be trying to build it's theory around an idea, not data.

I completely understand your point, I just don’t care.  Watching people whip out their IQ’s like teenage boys comparing the size of their pickles is amusing to me.  Me trying to understand philosophy would be hilarious.  On the other hand if an IMP is dropped in the morning I’d be a legend by night fall. IQ, knowledge, intelligence, common sense, adaptability, flexibility and probably 10 other traits I have missed are all interchangeable depending on the situation.  

So to answer the question, I can’t answer the question until I know who the other 99 are.  Me walking into a Mensa convention probably 100 out 100.  We walking into an AOC rally, 1 out of 100.
Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

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