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Wash’s innovative defense

#61
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2020, 06:18 PM by knarnn.)

(09-25-2020, 06:05 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: This is exactly what I said the purposes of doing it were in earlier posts.  Most fans will say "why would you drop a 300 lb guy in coverage", but the majority of teams do.  I do not like the call in midfield, but adding on to the coverage to tighten even smaller windows in a Cover 2 red zone on 3rd and 5 makes sense.  Fans want "innovative", but complain when it doesn't work.  I will accept your apology now.   Banana

So explain to me how Taven “plugs the middle of the field to eliminate any crossers or any low holes” on this play in question.

He doesn’t.

It’s not Myles Jack responsibility to do that. It’s Taven’s. That’s why it’s a bad play call against one of the better TEs in the league and Tannehill read it perfectly. The fact that it fails more than succeeds with 2 different teams should be reason enough to toss it from the playbook.
"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."
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#62
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2020, 06:30 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(09-25-2020, 06:12 PM)knarnn Wrote:
(09-25-2020, 06:05 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: This is exactly what I said the purposes of doing it were in earlier posts.  Most fans will say "why would you drop a 300 lb guy in coverage", but the majority of teams do.  I do not like the call in midfield, but adding on to the coverage to tighten even smaller windows in a Cover 2 red zone on 3rd and 5 makes sense.  Fans want "innovative", but complain when it doesn't work.  I will accept your apology now.   Banana

So explain to me how Taven  “plugs the middle of the field to eliminate any crossers or any low holes” on this play in question. 

He doesn’t.

He did.  He re-routed the first crosser, forcing him to come flatter across the middle and slowed him down a step (though he could have done it better... you can shove the receiver within a yard of the LOS).  That split second should have gave Jack an extra step to recognize him coming, but he was fixated on the back in the flat (not his play to make).  Taven actually dropped out too quick (funny thing to say for a lineman) and should have gotten a bigger piece of the #3 receiver.  The problem again was not the call, but the execution... particularly Jack.  Think of it basically as a Red Zone Cover 2 with an annoying fat guy free styling in the middle just adding to the coverage.  Jack's responsibility would not have changed whether you rushed or dropped Taven. You could have rushed Taven (he's probably not getting to the QB in 2.5 seconds) or drop him to try to disrupt the crossing routes (he did, but obviously not well enough).

You just found out about this concept for the first time from me 5 minutes ago, but have determined already from one article written by a fan on twitter that is doesn't work huh? Deep critical thinker... I like it!
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#63

(09-25-2020, 06:23 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(09-25-2020, 06:12 PM)knarnn Wrote: So explain to me how Taven  “plugs the middle of the field to eliminate any crossers or any low holes” on this play in question. 

He doesn’t.

He did.  He re-routed the first crosser, forcing him to come flatter across the middle and slowed him down a step (though he could have done it better... you can shove the receiver within a yard of the LOS).  That split second should have gave Jack an extra step to recognize him coming, but he was fixated on the back in the flat (not his play to make).  Taven actually dropped out too quick (funny thing to say for a lineman) and should have gotten a bigger piece of the #3 receiver.  The problem again was not the call, but the execution... particularly Jack.  Think of it basically as a Red Zone Cover 2 with an annoying fat guy free styling in the middle just adding to the coverage.  You could have rushed Taven (he's probably not getting to the QB in 2.5 seconds) or drop him to try to disrupt the crossing routes (he did, but obviously not well enough).

You just found out about this concept for the first time from me 5 minutes ago, but have determined already from one article written by a fan on twitter that is doesn't work huh?  Deep critical thinker... I like it!

Unlike you, I know a lot more about football concepts than what you’ve gleaned from playing Madden. I’m also curious of your definition of re-routing. Taven barely gets a good hand on him and Jonu powers on by. It’s a bad play design and execution by putting Taven in that position and expecting much from it.
"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."
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#64
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2020, 12:59 AM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(09-25-2020, 06:45 PM)knarnn Wrote:
(09-25-2020, 06:23 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: He did.  He re-routed the first crosser, forcing him to come flatter across the middle and slowed him down a step (though he could have done it better... you can shove the receiver within a yard of the LOS).  That split second should have gave Jack an extra step to recognize him coming, but he was fixated on the back in the flat (not his play to make).  Taven actually dropped out too quick (funny thing to say for a lineman) and should have gotten a bigger piece of the #3 receiver.  The problem again was not the call, but the execution... particularly Jack.  Think of it basically as a Red Zone Cover 2 with an annoying fat guy free styling in the middle just adding to the coverage.  You could have rushed Taven (he's probably not getting to the QB in 2.5 seconds) or drop him to try to disrupt the crossing routes (he did, but obviously not well enough).

You just found out about this concept for the first time from me 5 minutes ago, but have determined already from one article written by a fan on twitter that is doesn't work huh?  Deep critical thinker... I like it!

Unlike you, I know a lot more about football concepts than what you’ve gleaned from playing Madden. I’m also curious of your definition of re-routing. Taven barely gets a good hand on him and Jonu powers on by. It’s a bad play design and execution by putting Taven in that position and expecting much from it.


Is that right? And you have never heard of dropping a D-Lineman in coverage?  I guess my 4 years playing in college and 12 years coaching at the D1-AA level pale in comparison to your experience and wisdom.  Re-Routing (for those who do not know) is taking a receiver off the path he would go if there was no defender there.  You do not even have to touch a defender to re-route him.  Granted, Taven didn't get as good a piece of him as he could have, but he did flatten his path by making him come underneath Taven.  The design of the play is actually excellent for 3rd and goal from the 5, especially with the D showing blitz pre-snap to make sure the Titans wouldn't check to a running play; but I agree the execution was bad.  Particularly Jack, but also the weakside corner.  Free safety did well and Taven is only considered a "bonus" if he does anything on the play.  If grading this play Jack and weak corner get minuses, free safety gets a plus, Taven gets a 0 (even).
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#65
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2020, 08:07 PM by knarnn.)

(09-25-2020, 06:56 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(09-25-2020, 06:45 PM)knarnn Wrote: Unlike you, I know a lot more about football concepts than what you’ve gleaned from playing Madden. I’m also curious of your definition of re-routing. Taven barely gets a good hand on him and Jonu powers on by. It’s a bad play design and execution by putting Taven in that position and expecting much from it.


Is that right? And you have never heard of dropping a D-Lineman in coverage?  I guess my 4 years playing in college and 12 years coaching at the D1-AA level pale in comparison to your experience and wisdom.  Re-Routing (for those who do not know) is taking a receiver off the path he would go if there was no defender there.  You do not even have to touch a defender to re-route him.  Granted, Taven didn't get as good a piece of him as he could have, but he did flatten his path by making him come underneath Taven.  The design of the play is actually excellent for 3rd and goal from the 5, especially with the D showing blitz pre-snap to make sure the Titans wouldn't check to a running play; but I agree the execution was bad.  Particularly Jack, but also the weakside corner.  Free safety did well and Taven is only considered a "bonus" if he does anything on the play.  If grading this play Jack and weak corner get minuses, free safety gets a plus, Taven get a 0 (even).

I see you’re going to die on this island. When Wash gets fired make sure you show him your resume so y’all can plan your next venture together and share football expertise. I wish you luck in the madden play design contest.
"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."
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#66

(09-25-2020, 08:06 PM)knarnn Wrote:
(09-25-2020, 06:56 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: Is that right? And you have never heard of dropping a D-Lineman in coverage?  I guess my 4 years playing in college and 12 years coaching at the D1-AA level pale in comparison to your experience and wisdom.  Re-Routing (for those who do not know) is taking a receiver off the path he would go if there was no defender there.  You do not even have to touch a defender to re-route him.  Granted, Taven didn't get as good a piece of him as he could have, but he did flatten his path by making him come underneath Taven.  The design of the play is actually excellent for 3rd and goal from the 5, especially with the D showing blitz pre-snap to make sure the Titans wouldn't check to a running play; but I agree the execution was bad.  Particularly Jack, but also the weakside corner.  Free safety did well and Taven is only considered a "bonus" if he does anything on the play.  If grading this play Jack and weak corner get minuses, free safety gets a plus, Taven get a 0 (even).

I see you’re going to die on this island. When Wash gets fired make sure you show him your resume so y’all can plan your next venture together and share football expertise. I wish you luck in the madden play design contest.

LOL.... I am in the business world now brother.  Been for 10+ years and I am no football expert.  But I know enough of what defensive schemes have a higher probability to work against different situations and play-calling tendencies.  It is clear you do not.  But I will try to add some remedial knowledge for you occasionally.   Cool
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#67

(09-25-2020, 08:16 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(09-25-2020, 08:06 PM)knarnn Wrote: I see you’re going to die on this island. When Wash gets fired make sure you show him your resume so y’all can plan your next venture together and share football expertise. I wish you luck in the madden play design contest.

LOL.... I am in the business world now brother.  Been for 10+ years and I am no football expert.  But I know enough of what defensive schemes have a higher probability to work against different situations and play-calling tendencies.  It is clear you do not.  But I will try to add some remedial knowledge for you occasionally.   Cool
The play was called because the Titans knew what defense the Jags would be in. They know the defense sucks and it was designed to attack Jack's zone. Taven was just there so Jack didn't have to try to cover 4 players.

Go watch the all 22 shots and see there was no chance of stopping it unless Jack guess correctly to who the ball will be thrown. Any action made leaves at least 1 other player open in the end zone.

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#68
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2020, 10:05 AM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(09-26-2020, 02:03 AM)p_rushing Wrote:
(09-25-2020, 08:16 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: LOL.... I am in the business world now brother.  Been for 10+ years and I am no football expert.  But I know enough of what defensive schemes have a higher probability to work against different situations and play-calling tendencies.  It is clear you do not.  But I will try to add some remedial knowledge for you occasionally.   Cool
The play was called because the Titans knew what defense the Jags would be in. They know the defense sucks and it was designed to attack Jack's zone. Taven was just there so Jack didn't have to try to cover 4 players.

Go watch the all 22 shots and see there was no chance of stopping it unless Jack guess correctly to who the ball will be thrown. Any action made leaves at least 1 other player open in the end zone.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

Dude.... you obviously have no idea about the tactical aspects of Cover 2 red zone defense.  You need to watch it again. Jack is not supposed to "guess", he is supposed to read his keys and do his job... Football 101.  The safety was all over the WR breaking in. The corner has flat responsibility (the back). Jack's responsibility clearly was the hook-curl zone.  The ball was caught in the hook-curl zone.  It was Jack's play to make and he didn't make it.  End of story.  Even the idiot announcer in the clip says this.  Taven is just a disrupter on this play... it makes no difference to the other 7 guys responsibilities in coverage whether he drops or rushes. If the Titans knew the defense the Jags would be in, a draw would have been a better call than a pass against a 3 man rush with 8 man coverage in the red zone.  The defensive call was solid, the execution was not.  To say otherwise shows your ignorance for the tactical aspects of the game. Its really embarrassing how little you guys know about red zone Cover 2 D and yet, still try to argue about it. I mean, I even gave you a link to a remedial article to go read.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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