That was just one example.  Carr has been the least of the Raiders problems over the years. Wasnt you one of the tank for Teddy guys?  You would of passed on Mack for a guy taken with the last pick in the first.  I like what the Ravens have done, Ozzie Newsom has been one of the best GMs ever.  He took Hurst and then a few picks later took Jackson a few picks later because he had Hurst higher on his board.  Hurst wasnt the right guy but its just another example of how you build winning teams, then went on to take another TE in the 3rd not because of need but because he was again the top guy on the board.  That is how you build a winning franchise.  If a QB is the top guy on you board, then take him but don't reach when you have a team with this many holes and pass up an All Pro player at another position.  How do you know many have Fields number 2?  What GMs did you talk to?

And if someone had taken Lamar with the pick right before the Ravens drafted him? Then what?

You can’t wait around for a QB and hope other teams pass. If you deem a QB as a true franchise guy, you take them at your earliest pick. Lets say you love Trask (which you clearly do) but you don’t think he will go very high so you take Sewell. 

Then, Trask Jones Wilson and Fields all go before your next pick. Then what? You’re stuck with Luton and Minshew next year. 

If you love any one of the QBs, take them at 2.

You still think starting Burrow was a good idea?

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I'm with Upper, give me Fields every time. 

We've basically never been in this position before, don't screw it up, don't overthink it.

I'd rather overthink it than mindlessly overdrafting a QB like Fields who isn't even a top 10 player. Passing up elite talent at other positions to draft for need is why we are so bad now.

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We have never been in this position before? Lol

At the top of a 2 QB draft? Not really.

It's a 1 QB draft (Lawrence.) Everyone else is a crapshoot and even Lawrence is not a sure thing.

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Is it a QB heavy draft?  Some think its Lawrence or Fields or bust.  Most of the best Qbs in the league right now went outside of the top 5.  What top QBs right now went in the top 5? Murray and Burrow went 1 but neither are a top QB yet.

Clearly you're the overthink it type.

And you would draft on impulse.

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And if someone had taken Lamar with the pick right before the Ravens drafted him? Then what?

You can’t wait around for a QB and hope other teams pass. If you deem a QB as a true franchise guy, you take them at your earliest pick. Lets say you love Trask (which you clearly do) but you don’t think he will go very high so you take Sewell. 

Then, Trask Jones Wilson and Fields all go before your next pick. Then what? You’re stuck with Luton and Minshew next year. 

If you love any one of the QBs, take them at 2.

You still think starting Burrow was a good idea?

I for one do. You don't take a guy #1 overall and then sit on him.
It's a terrible injury for sure but it's the NFL... injuries happen.

And they can happen behind good O-lines too. Sometimes they happen against air (like Teddy's)

That all being said... sure would be nice to get an elite LT and a really good QB in this draft if possible.

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You're literally crazy if you would do this.

Like, barking at the moon crazy.  Neither has talent anywhere near Fields.  Didn't you want Rudolph in the 1st?

Obviously you haven't watched Fields play very much, because his flaws are pretty obvious. Are any of these prospects perfect? Of course not, I even have some minor concerns with Lawrence, but he is undeniably the best in the class. With Fields, he has gotten to this point purely on athleticism alone. He lacks pocket presence, he doesn't go through his reads and his passes are wildly inconsistent. He has some of the best WR's in the country and they are constantly bailing him out, especially Olave. I live in southwestern Ohio and I see it each and every week. Like I said, Trask and Jones are far from perfect, but give me a QB with instincts, pocket presence and accuracy any day of the week over one that is just an athlete with a strong arm. 

As for Rudolph, yes I did. I still believe he will be a good NFL QB, but unlike the other highly touted QB's that were taken in that draft, he landed in a spot where he is playing behind a future hall of famer, who is having an MVP type season. He'll get his chance someday and I believe he will show just how good he is. Sitting and learning behind Roethlisberger will only help him.

Did you even read that article someone linked about how Fields wasn't like the other OSU QBs? If you did there was a clip of half a dozen plays just from the first couple of games that showed him manipulating the pocket and going through reads to make big plays. I think you are too married to your opinion to see that maybe he has developed some.

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Obviously you haven't watched Fields play very much, because his flaws are pretty obvious. Are any of these prospects perfect? Of course not, I even have some minor concerns with Lawrence, but he is undeniably the best in the class. With Fields, he has gotten to this point purely on athleticism alone. He lacks pocket presence, he doesn't go through his reads and his passes are wildly inconsistent. He has some of the best WR's in the country and they are constantly bailing him out, especially Olave. I live in southwestern Ohio and I see it each and every week. Like I said, Trask and Jones are far from perfect, but give me a QB with instincts, pocket presence and accuracy any day of the week over one that is just an athlete with a strong arm. 

As for Rudolph, yes I did. I still believe he will be a good NFL QB, but unlike the other highly touted QB's that were taken in that draft, he landed in a spot where he is playing behind a future hall of famer, who is having an MVP type season. He'll get his chance someday and I believe he will show just how good he is. Sitting and learning behind Roethlisberger will only help him.

I think you are too married to your opinion

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Obviously you haven't watched Fields play very much, because his flaws are pretty obvious. Are any of these prospects perfect? Of course not, I even have some minor concerns with Lawrence, but he is undeniably the best in the class. With Fields, he has gotten to this point purely on athleticism alone. He lacks pocket presence, he doesn't go through his reads and his passes are wildly inconsistent. He has some of the best WR's in the country and they are constantly bailing him out, especially Olave. I live in southwestern Ohio and I see it each and every week. Like I said, Trask and Jones are far from perfect, but give me a QB with instincts, pocket presence and accuracy any day of the week over one that is just an athlete with a strong arm. 

As for Rudolph, yes I did. I still believe he will be a good NFL QB, but unlike the other highly touted QB's that were taken in that draft, he landed in a spot where he is playing behind a future hall of famer, who is having an MVP type season. He'll get his chance someday and I believe he will show just how good he is. Sitting and learning behind Roethlisberger will only help him.

Did you even read that article someone linked about how Fields wasn't like the other OSU QBs? If you did there was a clip of half a dozen plays just from the first couple of games that showed him manipulating the pocket and going through reads to make big plays. I think you are too married to your opinion to see that maybe he has developed some.

Why would I waste time reading an article when I watch him play every week? I actually see the same things that concerned me with him from day 1. I don't need to see someone else's opinion to try and convince me that what I see is wrong. I'll trust what I see in game situations. That's like reading John Oehser's write in column where he tries to convince people that our coaching staff and GM is just fine and that everything bad we see now, is Coughlin's fault. I know better. I see it with my own eyes. I know who is doing a good job and who isn't. I don't need to read articles to convince me that I'm wrong. My opinion is solely based on what I see in game play. Did you even watch Fields against Indiana?

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I think you are too married to your opinion

I am only married to my opinion, because I have seen nothing to change it. Fields' performance against Indiana only strengthened what I had been saying. Did you see the Indiana/Ohio State game?

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Did you even read that article someone linked about how Fields wasn't like the other OSU QBs? If you did there was a clip of half a dozen plays just from the first couple of games that showed him manipulating the pocket and going through reads to make big plays. I think you are too married to your opinion to see that maybe he has developed some.

Why would I waste time reading an article when I watch him play every week? I actually see the same things that concerned me with him from day 1. I don't need to see someone else's opinion to try and convince me that what I see is wrong. I'll trust what I see in game situations. That's like reading John Oehser's write in column where he tries to convince people that our coaching staff and GM is just fine and that everything bad we see now, is Coughlin's fault. I know better. I see it with my own eyes. I know who is doing a good job and who isn't. I don't need to read articles to convince me that I'm wrong. My opinion is solely based on what I see in game play. Did you even watch Fields against Indiana?

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I am only married to my opinion, because I have seen nothing to change it. Fields' performance against Indiana only strengthened what I had been saying. Did you see the Indiana/Ohio State game?

Yes I did. I was quoting that bit he said about married to the opinion and posted the meme because that is exactly how he is "married to his opinion" both of rating Fields highly (and seemingly flawlessly) and underrating Trask (because he doesn't run an RPO offense I guess)

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Why would I waste time reading an article when I watch him play every week? I actually see the same things that concerned me with him from day 1. I don't need to see someone else's opinion to try and convince me that what I see is wrong. I'll trust what I see in game situations. That's like reading John Oehser's write in column where he tries to convince people that our coaching staff and GM is just fine and that everything bad we see now, is Coughlin's fault. I know better. I see it with my own eyes. I know who is doing a good job and who isn't. I don't need to read articles to convince me that I'm wrong. My opinion is solely based on what I see in game play. Did you even watch Fields against Indiana?

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I am only married to my opinion, because I have seen nothing to change it. Fields' performance against Indiana only strengthened what I had been saying. Did you see the Indiana/Ohio State game?

Yes I did. I was quoting that bit he said about married to the opinion and posted the meme because that is exactly how he is "married to his opinion" both of rating Fields highly (and seemingly flawlessly) and underrating Trask (because he doesn't run an RPO offense I guess)

Cool. I like Trask and Mac Jones, but I certainly am not advocating drafting them at #2. I just want to take the BAP. Caldwell has drafted for need so much over the years and that's way we're in the position that we are now. I get people's desperation to acquire a franchise QB, but they are ignoring obvious flaws and crowning Fields as the Jaguars franchise QB. I just don't get it?

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My opinion on Trask is about the same as every non slobbery Gator homer that I've seen. Everyone says a low end starter/quality backup type, and I view him as more of the latter. Don't get why Kane keeps ragging on me for mirroring the opinions of most people.

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Why would I waste time reading an article when I watch him play every week?

So that clip of Fields doing exactly what you say he can't do on like 6 or 7 occasions in the first couple of games was made up or edited somehow?

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My opinion on Trask is about the same as every non slobbery Gator homer that I've seen. Everyone says a low end starter/quality backup type, and I view him as more of the latter. Don't get why Kane keeps ragging on me for mirroring the opinions of most people.

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Why would I waste time reading an article when I watch him play every week?

So that clip of Fields doing exactly what you say he can't do on like 6 or 7 occasions in the first couple of games was made up or edited somehow?

LOL. You can pick and choose plays here and there for any player and put together a clip to make them look good. You're only picking the best plays. I could pick and choose throws from JaMarcus Russell's career and make him look like a hall of famer. It's all about consistency in a single game and to do that, you have to watch games in their entirety.

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You still think starting Burrow was a good idea?

I for one do. You don't take a guy #1 overall and then sit on him.
It's a terrible injury for sure but it's the NFL... injuries happen.

And they can happen behind good O-lines too. Sometimes they happen against air (like Teddy's)

That all being said... sure would be nice to get an elite LT and a really good QB in this draft if possible.

Of course injuries happen, but you dont think the risk was way higher behind a oline like that?  One of the things on Teddy before he was drafted was how skinny his ankles are, it proved the risk to be right what everyone thought.  I like the way KC handled Mahomes, i think they did it perfectly.  Let him sit a year behind a good vet for a year, decent oline , and then he will be ready and let him take over.  Agreed, take Sewell at 2 and get Wilson, Trask, or Jones.  People act like Fields is in a different tier than those guys and its all because of athletic ability.  Some guys were saying 10 or 15 years ago Trask would be the number 1 pick but he isnt athletic enough.  I dont care how athletic my QB is to be honest.  Its why Brady fell to the 6th round

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I'm with Upper, give me Fields every time. 

We've basically never been in this position before, don't screw it up, don't overthink it.

I'd rather overthink it than mindlessly overdrafting a QB like Fields who isn't even a top 10 player. Passing up elite talent at other positions to draft for need is why we are so bad now.

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At the top of a 2 QB draft? Not really.

It's a 1 QB draft (Lawrence.) Everyone else is a crapshoot and even Lawrence is not a sure thing.

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Clearly you're the overthink it type.

And you would draft on impulse.

I'm not even sure what you mean by that. I wouldn't draft on impulse because I'm not the GM, and I'm not trying to play board GM or even scout these players. I'm saying If the consensus is that there are two QBs at the top of the draft, we 100% need to take one. It's really not that wild of an opinion lol. 

Anyway, weren't you the guy who was raving over Mason Rudolph a few years ago? I guess I'll bow to your infinite draft wisdom on QBs.

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I'd rather overthink it than mindlessly overdrafting a QB like Fields who isn't even a top 10 player. Passing up elite talent at other positions to draft for need is why we are so bad now.

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It's a 1 QB draft (Lawrence.) Everyone else is a crapshoot and even Lawrence is not a sure thing.

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And you would draft on impulse.

I'm not even sure what you mean by that. I wouldn't draft on impulse because I'm not the GM, and I'm not trying to play board GM or even scout these players. I'm saying If the consensus is that there are two QBs at the top of the draft, we 100% need to take one. It's really not that wild of an opinion lol. 

Anyway, weren't you the guy who was raving over Mason Rudolph a few years ago? I guess I'll bow to your infinite draft wisdom on QBs.

If you haven't seen them play, how can you form an opinion? I don't ever take anyone else's word on anything. I have to see it for myself. I don't trust consensus. The consensus said that RG3 was gonna be a star QB. The consensus also said JaMarcus Russell was a "can't miss" QB and that Tom Brady was too un-athletic to make it in the NFL. I don't trust the consensus. I like to form my own opinions. 

As for Rudolph, as I said earlier, I did like him am lot and I still do. Unlike other QB's in his class who got drafted to bad teams, he is now sitting behind a future hall of famer who is having an MVP type season. When Rudolph gets his chance to take over the reigns full time, I believe he will be very good. Sitting and learning behind greatness, can only help his progression.

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I'm not even sure what you mean by that. I wouldn't draft on impulse because I'm not the GM, and I'm not trying to play board GM or even scout these players. I'm saying If the consensus is that there are two QBs at the top of the draft, we 100% need to take one. It's really not that wild of an opinion lol. 

Anyway, weren't you the guy who was raving over Mason Rudolph a few years ago? I guess I'll bow to your infinite draft wisdom on QBs.

If you haven't seen them play, how can you form an opinion? I don't ever take anyone else's word on anything. I have to see it for myself. I don't trust consensus. The consensus said that RG3 was gonna be a star QB. The consensus also said JaMarcus Russell was a "can't miss" QB and that Tom Brady was too un-athletic to make it in the NFL. I don't trust the consensus. I like to form my own opinions. 

As for Rudolph, as I said earlier, I did like him am lot and I still do. Unlike other QB's in his class who got drafted to bad teams, he is now sitting behind a future hall of famer who is having an MVP type season. When Rudolph gets his chance to take over the reigns full time, I believe he will be very good. Sitting and learning behind greatness, can only help his progression.

Yeah, you see if for yourself, and you've kinda proven yourself about as accurate as a blind man playing darts over the years. So coming at me with all this I scout these guys in the filmroon myself junk is beyond laughable.

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My opinion on Trask is about the same as every non slobbery Gator homer that I've seen. Everyone says a low end starter/quality backup type, and I view him as more of the latter. Don't get why Kane keeps ragging on me for mirroring the opinions of most people.

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So that clip of Fields doing exactly what you say he can't do on like 6 or 7 occasions in the first couple of games was made up or edited somehow?

LOL. You can pick and choose plays here and there for any player and put together a clip to make them look good. You're only picking the best plays. I could pick and choose throws from JaMarcus Russell's career and make him look like a hall of famer. It's all about consistency in a single game and to do that, you have to watch games in their entirety.

I'm not picking and choosing highlight plays. I'm picking and choosing plays (actually that guy did since it is addressing the flaws you and others claim he had coming into the year) that directly shows him displaying the skills that you say he doesn't have. But you refuse to even read the article or watch the clip so it's pointless to keep going.

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I for one do. You don't take a guy #1 overall and then sit on him.
It's a terrible injury for sure but it's the NFL... injuries happen.

And they can happen behind good O-lines too. Sometimes they happen against air (like Teddy's)

That all being said... sure would be nice to get an elite LT and a really good QB in this draft if possible.

Of course injuries happen, but you dont think the risk was way higher behind a oline like that?  One of the things on Teddy before he was drafted was how skinny his ankles are, it proved the risk to be right what everyone thought.  I like the way KC handled Mahomes, i think they did it perfectly.  Let him sit a year behind a good vet for a year, decent oline , and then he will be ready and let him take over.  Agreed, take Sewell at 2 and get Wilson, Trask, or Jones.  People act like Fields is in a different tier than those guys and its all because of athletic ability.  Some guys were saying 10 or 15 years ago Trask would be the number 1 pick but he isnt athletic enough.  I dont care how athletic my QB is to be honest.  Its why Brady fell to the 6th round

While Mahomes is certainly and all-world talent, it definitely helped for him to be under the real QB whisperer Andy Reid and their loaded offense at every position.

We are fortunate to have the amount of draft picks we do because we definitely need help at A LOT of positions. I think this class is deep at offensive line, WR, DE, and safety where we can find reliable starters.

After Lawrence and Fields, I personally believe there is a talent drop off with the next echelon of QBs - which is why I think we should go with Fields if we dont get the 1st pick and Lawrence.

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If you haven't seen them play, how can you form an opinion? I don't ever take anyone else's word on anything. I have to see it for myself. I don't trust consensus. The consensus said that RG3 was gonna be a star QB. The consensus also said JaMarcus Russell was a "can't miss" QB and that Tom Brady was too un-athletic to make it in the NFL. I don't trust the consensus. I like to form my own opinions. 

As for Rudolph, as I said earlier, I did like him am lot and I still do. Unlike other QB's in his class who got drafted to bad teams, he is now sitting behind a future hall of famer who is having an MVP type season. When Rudolph gets his chance to take over the reigns full time, I believe he will be very good. Sitting and learning behind greatness, can only help his progression.

Yeah, you see if for yourself, and you've kinda proven yourself about as accurate as a blind man playing darts over the years. So coming at me with all this I scout these guys in the filmroon myself junk is beyond laughable.

I'm certainly not right all the time and have never claimed to be. I've made a lot of mistakes over the years, but I've got a better track record than Caldwell. Heck, over half of this board could make better picks than he has. I did say that DaVon Hamilton was our best pick in the last draft and well............. so far, I'm looking pretty good.

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LOL. You can pick and choose plays here and there for any player and put together a clip to make them look good. You're only picking the best plays. I could pick and choose throws from JaMarcus Russell's career and make him look like a hall of famer. It's all about consistency in a single game and to do that, you have to watch games in their entirety.

I'm not picking and choosing highlight plays. I'm picking and choosing plays (actually that guy did since it is addressing the flaws you and others claim he had coming into the year) that directly shows him displaying the skills that you say he doesn't have. But you refuse to even read the article or watch the clip so it's pointless to keep going.

I'm talking about consistency. Yes, he will do things on occasion that look good, but he doesn't do them consistently like a franchise QB should. He is wildly inconsistent. It's not that hard, I don't know why you don't understand this? Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

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Lol this thread is ridiculous. If we stay at #2 we are taking Fields. Fields would be the #1 pick in just about every draft the Lawrence isnt in. The crowd against Fields is the one guy that still thinks Tebow is a good QB and the other guy that was in love with Mason Rudolph and thought Herbert was going to bust. You can take both of their opinions and throw them in the trash. The gap between Fields and Trask/Jones is tremendous. You guys better get used to the idea of Fields wearing teal next year, unless the Jets get lucky and win a game or 2.

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Yeah, you see if for yourself, and you've kinda proven yourself about as accurate as a blind man playing darts over the years. So coming at me with all this I scout these guys in the filmroon myself junk is beyond laughable.

I'm certainly not right all the time and have never claimed to be. I've made a lot of mistakes over the years, but I've got a better track record than Caldwell. Heck, over half of this board could make better picks than he has. I did say that DaVon Hamilton was our best pick in the last draft and well............. so far, I'm looking pretty good.

lol... This is comedy at it's finest.

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Lol this thread is ridiculous. If we stay at #2 we are taking Fields. Fields would be the #1 pick in just about every draft the Lawrence isnt in. The crowd against Fields is the one guy that still thinks Tebow is a good QB and the other guy that was in love with Mason Rudolph and thought Herbert was going to bust. You can take both of their options and throw them in the trash. The gap between Fileds and Trask/Jones is tremendous. You guys better get used to the idea of Fields wearing teal next year, unless the Jets get lucky and win a game or 2.

I'm certainly not right all the time and have never claimed to be. I've made a lot of mistakes over the years, but I've got a better track record than Caldwell. Heck, over half of this board could make better picks than he has. I did say that DaVon Hamilton was our best pick in the last draft and well............. so far, I'm looking pretty good.

lol... This is comedy at it's finest.

+1s to all!

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