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If we pick at 2 what would it take to get #1?

#21

(11-26-2020, 11:08 AM)Upper Wrote: I'd give up both 1sts and a 2nd to get Lawrence in a heartbeat. We'd still have ammo between the rest of our picks + a ton of cap space to build around Lawrence if we have a competent GM next year.

For sure, I'd it in a heartbeat too
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#22
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2020, 11:51 AM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(11-26-2020, 11:08 AM)Upper Wrote: I'd give up both 1sts and a 2nd to get Lawrence in a heartbeat. We'd still have ammo between the rest of our picks + a ton of cap space to build around Lawrence if we have a competent GM next year.

We wouldn't have the picks though. We need immediate starters at QB, LT, TE, 3 Technique, DE, Strong Safety and Nickle CB. Where are we gonna find starters with one second, one 3rd and a bunch of low round picks? I certainly don't trust free agency, because with the way players were defecting from this team, I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe any top free agents are gonna come here to play. If we trade away both first rounders and a 2nd, I'd expect out record in 2021 to be no more than 5 wins, even with Lawrence. The guy is not a Superman. He's gonna need a surrounding cast.
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#23

(11-26-2020, 11:08 AM)Upper Wrote: I'd give up both 1sts and a 2nd to get Lawrence in a heartbeat. We'd still have ammo between the rest of our picks + a ton of cap space to build around Lawrence if we have a competent GM next year.

Yea, that would be a "no brainer." The Jets aren't dumb enough to not draft him, however.
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#24
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2020, 01:28 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(11-26-2020, 11:20 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(11-26-2020, 11:08 AM)Upper Wrote: I'd give up both 1sts and a 2nd to get Lawrence in a heartbeat. We'd still have ammo between the rest of our picks + a ton of cap space to build around Lawrence if we have a competent GM next year.

For sure, I'd it in a heartbeat too

I don't know man.  Would you do that for DeShaun Watson?  For Cam Newton?  Are we sure Lawrence is better than they are?  I might do it for Mahomes (knowing what we know now)... but even then, you're only moving up ONE SPOT.  I can't see us giving up two 1sts and a 2nd (if we have the 2nd overall pick)... that would be unprecedented. The draft is such a crap shoot, and most of us just form our opinions on what we hear the "experts" say.  When Mahomes, Watson, and Trubisky all came out in 2017, the only one of those guys to make Mel Kiper's Top 25 was Trubisky at #18.  That seems comical now.

I'd give up something for him, but I wouldn't sell the farm. Check out this chart:

https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculato...pickvalues

This is the chart used by most NFL teams as a rough guideline to assess trade value for draft picks. The difference between #1 and #2 overall is 400 points, or the equivalent of one mid-2nd round pick. I get that Lawrence is perceived as a generational talent, but I just can't see anyone giving up two 1sts (including the 2nd overall pick) and a 2nd to get it done.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#25
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2020, 06:28 PM by Eric1.)

(11-26-2020, 10:56 AM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(11-26-2020, 01:42 AM)Eric1 Wrote: Those 2nd and 3rd round picks should be starters on this team. We have way too many holes/depth to fill to be trading away picks. We currently have 4 picks in the top 50 and 7 picks in the first 4 rounds. Every one of those picks need to be used here, we can't afford to be trading them away.

So you're saying that it wouldn't be worth it to give up a 2nd and a 3rd for Peyton Manning or Patrick Mahomes on their rookie deal?  Because that's what were are talking about here if you believe the Trevor Lawrence hype that he's a can't miss franchise QB... the type of player we have never had here before.  Of course there are no guarantees, just as there are no guarantees that your 2nd and 3rd round picks will be any good either.  But I'd give up Jawaan Taylor and Josh Oliver (2nd and 3rd rounders respectively in 2019) for Trevor Lawrence in a heart beat; quality over quantity.  Hell, I'd trade a 2nd and a 3rd for Joe Burrow (pre-injury).  The fact we do have draft capital in 2021, and cap space for free agents, to add more quality players would make me feel even better making that move.

That being said, I tend to agree with flgatorsandjags that someone else will likely be desperate and dramatically overpay to go up and get that #1 pick.  People thought the Bears overpaid in 2017, giving up two-3rds and a 4th to flip picks from #3 to #2 to get Trubisky, but Lawrence has much more hype around him than that.  I'd cap our offer at flipping 1st's, plus a 2nd and a 3rd; someone else would likely outbid us. I'd be fine with Sewell, but at some point you need to find your QB.  Minshew et al. ain't it.

Yea with hindsight, of course we'd trade for Peyton Manning or Mahomes... The problem is that we know how that story played out/is playing out, so it's a no brainer. There's no guarantee Lawrence will be anything close to either of those two. Especially if we still have this same coaching staff working with Lawrence.

Regardless, its all a moot point anyways. The Jets aren't trading that #1 pick. They are going to take Lawrence 100% if they hold the #1 pick. Our only hope at getting Lawrence is that we continue to lose and the Jets win a couple.
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#26

(11-23-2020, 09:22 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: What do yall think it would take to move up 1 spot to take Lawrence?  Both 1sts and a 2nd?

Remember the godawful movie "Draft Day"?

Lawrence would cost more to move from 2 to 1 than Kevin Costner gave up to move from 7 to 1.
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#27

(11-26-2020, 11:51 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(11-26-2020, 11:08 AM)Upper Wrote: I'd give up both 1sts and a 2nd to get Lawrence in a heartbeat. We'd still have ammo between the rest of our picks + a ton of cap space to build around Lawrence if we have a competent GM next year.

We wouldn't have the picks though. We need immediate starters at QB, LT, TE, 3 Technique, DE, Strong Safety and Nickle CB. Where are we gonna find starters with one second, one 3rd and a bunch of low round picks? I certainly don't trust free agency, because with the way players were defecting from this team, I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe any top free agents are gonna come here to play. If we trade away both first rounders and a 2nd, I'd expect out record in 2021 to be no more than 5 wins, even with Lawrence. The guy is not a Superman. He's gonna need a surrounding cast.

It would leave us with essentially a normal draft worth of picks. I'd be thrilled with that. I'm not worried about FA coming here, we just went to the AFCCG a few years ago with a defense built around almost all FA and it's not like we were a powerhouse at drawing FA then. If you have the cap space you will draw good players.

No matter what happens I'm not expecting to contend with a rookie QB next year. 5 wins would be pretty solid. But the year after with two drafts, two FA classes, and a 2nd year QB...I think we could make some noise then.
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#28
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2020, 10:16 PM by Bullseye.)

(11-23-2020, 04:57 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: It would take A LOT to trade up even one spot to get Lawrence and there is no way we should pull off such a move. This team is deficient at almost every position and giving away draft capital is not the way to build a team. Cincinnati drafted Joe Burrow last season, but they neglected to given him an offensive line. For years they have ignored the O-Line and Burrow was hit more than any QB in the NFL. Now, he's out for the season with a torn ACL. What good was drafting a franchise QB when you have no O-line to keep him upright. Now, the Bengals will be without him this season and in many cases, it takes a player another full season to fully get over the injury. When he does return, he will likely not be the same player he was before the injury until at least 2022. I don't wanna build things that way. We need to take truly elite players when we have the chance. If Lawrence is off the board, we have to take OT Penei Sewell. Robinson is not the answer at LT and other than Eichenberg of Notre Dame, this class of OT's is largely filled with projects. Free agency is pretty much barren as well. We should keep the draft picks, because as many picks as we have, we have even more needs.

For some perspective as to how much it might cost, here are terms of a few trades up into the top 5 for QBs....

https://www.12up.com/posts/revisiting-ch...e5xmgda4qt

This details the 1998 trade where the Chargers moved up one spot from 3 to 2 to get in position to select Ryan Leaf.

"In 2001, the Falcons had the No. 5 pick in the NFL draft, but they stunned the NFL world by trading up with the Chargers to acquire the No. 1 overall selection. Atlanta sent its first- and third-round picks and a 2002 second-round draft pick to San Diego in order to select Virginia Tech quarterback Michael Vick."  That was a move up of four spots...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/21/this-d...ck-falcons

Here is another trade in 2004 involving the Chargers.  Here, Eli Manning forced the deal, being unwilling to play for the Chargers. who had the #1 overall pick.

Here were the terms of the trade:

Chargers send Eli Manning to the Giants.
The Giants send Phillip Rivers
The Giants 2004 3rd round pick
The Giants 2005 first round pick
and The Giants 2005 fifth round pick


More recently-2012 to be specific, to move from 6-2, the Washington Football team sent 3 first round picks and a 2nd to the Rams to get RGIII.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/7668...louis-rams

Lastly, in 2018, the Jets traded up from the 6th overall pick to #3..."

"The short story: The Jets gave up a good amount to move up and draft their quarterback of the future, Sam Darnold. To swap ones, the Jets sent to Indianapolis two second-round picks last year, Nos. 37 and 49, and a second-rounder this year, which figures to be No. 34."

https://www.newyorkjets.com/news/looking...am-darnold

Now these samples do not represent the entirety of first round top 5 trades for QBs.  However, they give some indicia that, while likely costly, a trade up with the jets to move up one spot may not be as catastrophically expensive as some fear, especially considering we have lots of ammunition this year and we are only one pick below the Jets.

As long as the price is better than, or at least comparable to the trades above, aside from what Washington paid to move up to get RG III, I would pay the price without hesitation if it means us ending up with Trevor Lawrence.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#29

(11-26-2020, 10:08 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(11-23-2020, 04:57 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: It would take A LOT to trade up even one spot to get Lawrence and there is no way we should pull off such a move. This team is deficient at almost every position and giving away draft capital is not the way to build a team. Cincinnati drafted Joe Burrow last season, but they neglected to given him an offensive line. For years they have ignored the O-Line and Burrow was hit more than any QB in the NFL. Now, he's out for the season with a torn ACL. What good was drafting a franchise QB when you have no O-line to keep him upright. Now, the Bengals will be without him this season and in many cases, it takes a player another full season to fully get over the injury. When he does return, he will likely not be the same player he was before the injury until at least 2022. I don't wanna build things that way. We need to take truly elite players when we have the chance. If Lawrence is off the board, we have to take OT Penei Sewell. Robinson is not the answer at LT and other than Eichenberg of Notre Dame, this class of OT's is largely filled with projects. Free agency is pretty much barren as well. We should keep the draft picks, because as many picks as we have, we have even more needs.

For some perspective as to how much it might cost, here are terms of a few trades up into the top 5 for QBs....

https://www.12up.com/posts/revisiting-ch...e5xmgda4qt

This details the 1998 trade where the Chargers moved up one spot from 3 to 2 to get in position to select Ryan Leaf.

"In 2001, the Falcons had the No. 5 pick in the NFL draft, but they stunned the NFL world by trading up with the Chargers to acquire the No. 1 overall selection. Atlanta sent its first- and third-round picks and a 2002 second-round draft pick to San Diego in order to select Virginia Tech quarterback Michael Vick."  That was a move up of four spots...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/21/this-d...ck-falcons

Here is another trade in 2004 involving the Chargers.  Here, Eli Manning forced the deal, being unwilling to play for the Chargers. who had the #1 overall pick.

Here were the terms of the trade:

Chargers send Eli Manning to the Giants.
The Giants send Phillip Rivers
The Giants 2004 3rd round pick
The Giants 2005 first round pick
and The Giants 2005 fifth round pick


More recently-2012 to be specific, to move from 6-2, the Washington Football team sent 3 first round picks and a 2nd to the Rams to get RGIII.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/7668...louis-rams

Lastly, in 2018, the Jets traded up from the 6th overall pick to #3..."

"The short story: The Jets gave up a good amount to move up and draft their quarterback of the future, Sam Darnold. To swap ones, the Jets sent to Indianapolis two second-round picks last year, Nos. 37 and 49, and a second-rounder this year, which figures to be No. 34."

https://www.newyorkjets.com/news/looking...am-darnold

Now these samples do not represent the entirety of first round top 5 trades for QBs.  However, they give some indicia that, while likely costly, a trade up with the jets to move up one spot may not be as catastrophically expensive as some fear, especially considering we have lots of ammunition this year and we are only one pick below the Jets.

As long as the price is better than, or at least comparable to the trades above, aside from what Washington paid to move up to get RG III, I would pay the price without hesitation if it means us ending up with Trevor Lawrence.

Great post with a ton of details.  I agree with you that moving up will come at a stiff price, but not as much as many seem to think.  It appears in those trades you referenced, the more desperate teams were to move up (as indicated by giving up more draft capital) the worse their decisions were.  I hope we have a level-headed GM hired in January that will be able to place a true value on what Lawrence is worth, decide the maximum price he is willing pay to trade for him, but also has the poise to walk away if that price exceeds the perceived value.  One thing is clear... the decisions we make in this 2021 off-season will be critical for the next 5-10 YEARS, so we HAVE TO get rid of Caldwell on Black Monday.  We CANNOT have a lame duck GM on a one-year deal who will only be looking for short-term results so he can get a new contract be making decisions that will effect this organization for the next decade and miss a franchise changing opportunity.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#30
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2020, 12:42 AM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(11-26-2020, 06:24 PM)Eric1 Wrote:
(11-26-2020, 10:56 AM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: So you're saying that it wouldn't be worth it to give up a 2nd and a 3rd for Peyton Manning or Patrick Mahomes on their rookie deal?  Because that's what were are talking about here if you believe the Trevor Lawrence hype that he's a can't miss franchise QB... the type of player we have never had here before.  Of course there are no guarantees, just as there are no guarantees that your 2nd and 3rd round picks will be any good either.  But I'd give up Jawaan Taylor and Josh Oliver (2nd and 3rd rounders respectively in 2019) for Trevor Lawrence in a heart beat; quality over quantity.  Hell, I'd trade a 2nd and a 3rd for Joe Burrow (pre-injury).  The fact we do have draft capital in 2021, and cap space for free agents, to add more quality players would make me feel even better making that move.

That being said, I tend to agree with flgatorsandjags that someone else will likely be desperate and dramatically overpay to go up and get that #1 pick.  People thought the Bears overpaid in 2017, giving up two-3rds and a 4th to flip picks from #3 to #2 to get Trubisky, but Lawrence has much more hype around him than that.  I'd cap our offer at flipping 1st's, plus a 2nd and a 3rd; someone else would likely outbid us. I'd be fine with Sewell, but at some point you need to find your QB.  Minshew et al. ain't it.

Yea with hindsight, of course we'd trade for Peyton Manning or Mahomes... The problem is that we know how that story played out/is playing out, so it's a no brainer. There's no guarantee Lawrence will be anything close to either of those two. Especially if we still have this same coaching staff working with Lawrence.

Regardless, its all a moot point anyways. The Jets aren't trading that #1 pick. They are going to take Lawrence 100% if they hold the #1 pick. Our only hope at getting Lawrence is that we continue to lose and the Jets win a couple.

Well that is what you are trying to evaluate.  If you think Lawrence is that guy, you pay that price.  If you don't make the move and he turns into the second coming of Patrick Mahomes, it will haunt your franchise for a decade.  Look at Chicago... they have built a Super Bowl caliber defense and a solid roster overall, but missed terribly on the QB with Trubisky.  Missing on that single pick will cost that GM his job either this year or next.  Could you imagine that team if they had taken either Mahomes or Watson?!?!  They'd likely have a ring by now instead of KC.

However, you are probably right about it being a moot point with the Jets keeping the pick... but you never know.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#31
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2020, 03:02 AM by Eric1.)

(11-27-2020, 12:35 AM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(11-26-2020, 06:24 PM)Eric1 Wrote: Yea with hindsight, of course we'd trade for Peyton Manning or Mahomes... The problem is that we know how that story played out/is playing out, so it's a no brainer. There's no guarantee Lawrence will be anything close to either of those two. Especially if we still have this same coaching staff working with Lawrence.

Regardless, its all a moot point anyways. The Jets aren't trading that #1 pick. They are going to take Lawrence 100% if they hold the #1 pick. Our only hope at getting Lawrence is that we continue to lose and the Jets win a couple.

Well that is what you are trying to evaluate.  If you think Lawrence is that guy, you pay that price.  If you don't make the move and he turns into the second coming of Patrick Mahomes, it will haunt your franchise for a decade.  Look at Chicago... they have built a Super Bowl caliber defense and a solid roster overall, but missed terribly on the QB with Trubisky.  Missing on that single pick will cost that GM his job either this year or next.  Could you imagine that team if they had taken either Mahomes or Watson?!?!  They'd likely have a ring by now instead of KC.

However, you are probably right about it being a moot point with the Jets keeping the pick... but you never know.

Mahomes went #10 overall though and Watson went #12. It's not like either of those guys were looked at as locks, so again it just proves how much of a crap shoot it is drafting QBs.

Most of these players that are hyped up as generational talents fail to live up to the hype.

There's really only two options why the Jets wouldn't take Lawrence. He either stays in school, or he tries to force a trade (or I guess they win a couple games, but that's highly unlikely). If he's going to try and force a trade, he's a [BLEEP] and not a true franchise QB.
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#32

(11-27-2020, 03:00 AM)Eric1 Wrote: If he's going to try and force a trade, he's a [BLEEP] and not a true franchise QB.

Maybe he would do it because we hire Dabo and he wants to keep the band together.

Also, it's not exactly like Elway and Eli weren't franchise QBs. Granted Eli is overrated.
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#33

1. Lawrence 2. Fields

Worst case scenario, we get Fields. We just need to keep on losing the rest of the way and go 1-15.

By the way does anyone know, if Jets and Jaguars are both 1-15, who takes first pick?
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#34
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2020, 07:51 PM by Eric1.)

(11-27-2020, 11:39 AM)Upper Wrote:
(11-27-2020, 03:00 AM)Eric1 Wrote: If he's going to try and force a trade, he's a [BLEEP] and not a true franchise QB.

Maybe he would do it because we hire Dabo and he wants to keep the band together.

Also, it's not exactly like Elway and Eli weren't franchise QBs. Granted Eli is overrated.

Eli is massively overrated and Elway is a little bit overrated in his own right as well.

A true franchise QB should feel like he can win no matter the situation/where he goes and he should be more than willing to accept the challenge.

So many people in this fan base hate/don't respect Ramsey because he forced his way out of town. So then why would/should they like/respect Lawrence (different team in this case, but all but the same situation as Ramsey), or anybody else if they did the same thing, especially when he plays the most important position in football. QB is suppose to set an example and being a [BLEEP] isn't a good one to set. As so many people love to bring up about Ramsey etc etc.

And don't get me wrong, I'd love to draft Lawrence, but it's just not a good look if he tries to force a trade because he doesn't want to play somewhere.

(11-27-2020, 07:39 PM)airjoeo Wrote: 1. Lawrence 2. Fields

Worst case scenario, we get Fields.  We just need to keep on losing the rest of the way and go 1-15.  

By the way does anyone know, if Jets and Jaguars are both 1-15, who takes first pick?

The tie breaker is based on Strength of Schedule and that's how they would decide who got #1/#2 if they both finish at 1-15.
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#35
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2020, 07:50 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(11-27-2020, 03:00 AM)Eric1 Wrote:
(11-27-2020, 12:35 AM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: Well that is what you are trying to evaluate.  If you think Lawrence is that guy, you pay that price.  If you don't make the move and he turns into the second coming of Patrick Mahomes, it will haunt your franchise for a decade.  Look at Chicago... they have built a Super Bowl caliber defense and a solid roster overall, but missed terribly on the QB with Trubisky.  Missing on that single pick will cost that GM his job either this year or next.  Could you imagine that team if they had taken either Mahomes or Watson?!?!  They'd likely have a ring by now instead of KC.

However, you are probably right about it being a moot point with the Jets keeping the pick... but you never know.

Mahomes went #10 overall though and Watson went #12. It's not like either of those guys were looked at as locks, so again it just proves how much of a crap shoot it is drafting QBs.

Most of these players that are hyped up as generational talents fail to live up to the hype.

There's really only two options why the Jets wouldn't take Lawrence. He either stays in school, or he tries to force a trade (or I guess they win a couple games, but that's highly unlikely). If he's going to try and force a trade, he's a [BLEEP] and not a true franchise QB.

Lawrence is being spoken of like John Elway or Peyton Manning.  Not since Andrew Luck has anyone been considered a generational talent like this.  Not Cam Newton.  Not Baker Mayfield.  Not Sam Bradford.  Not Matthew Stafford.  What QB are you referring to that has been hyped like this and missed?

That being said, it will be up to our new GM to determine if that assessment is warranted and evaluate the price they would be willing to pay to get him. Unless the Jets can beat the Dolphins this weekend... that would help!
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#36
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2020, 07:57 PM by Eric1.)

(11-27-2020, 07:47 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(11-27-2020, 03:00 AM)Eric1 Wrote: Mahomes went #10 overall though and Watson went #12. It's not like either of those guys were looked at as locks, so again it just proves how much of a crap shoot it is drafting QBs.

Most of these players that are hyped up as generational talents fail to live up to the hype.

There's really only two options why the Jets wouldn't take Lawrence. He either stays in school, or he tries to force a trade (or I guess they win a couple games, but that's highly unlikely). If he's going to try and force a trade, he's a [BLEEP] and not a true franchise QB.

Lawrence is being spoken of like John Elway or Peyton Manning.  Not since Andrew Luck has anyone been considered a generational talent like this.  Not Cam Newton.  Not Baker Mayfield.  Not Sam Bradford.  Not Matthew Stafford.  What QB are you referring to that has been hyped like this and missed?

That being said, it will be up to our new GM to determine if that assessment is warranted and evaluate the price they would be willing to pay to get him.  Unless the Jets can beat the Dolphins this weekend... that would help!

Generational type talent gets thrown around every year. I'm not just talking about the QB position, I'm talking about every position in general. They get put up so high on this pedestal, it's almost impossible for them to live up to the hype.

But regardless, I'm still hoping and rooting that the Jets can weasel out a win or two. My fingers are crossed and I've been rooting/watching them most every week.
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#37
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2020, 08:05 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(11-27-2020, 07:54 PM)Eric1 Wrote:
(11-27-2020, 07:47 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: Lawrence is being spoken of like John Elway or Peyton Manning.  Not since Andrew Luck has anyone been considered a generational talent like this.  Not Cam Newton.  Not Baker Mayfield.  Not Sam Bradford.  Not Matthew Stafford.  What QB are you referring to that has been hyped like this and missed?

That being said, it will be up to our new GM to determine if that assessment is warranted and evaluate the price they would be willing to pay to get him.  Unless the Jets can beat the Dolphins this weekend... that would help!

Generational type talent gets thrown around every year. I'm not just talking about the QB position, I'm talking about every position in general. They get put up so high on this pedestal, it's almost impossible for them to live up to the hype.

But regardless, I'm still hoping and rooting that the Jets can weasel out a win or two. My fingers are crossed and I've been rooting/watching them most every week.

I'd disagree with that... I'd say once every 5-10 years or so.  No one has been hyped like this since Andrew Luck.  Before that it was Eli.  Before that it was Peyton, Aikman, Elway.   Worst one of that bunch is Eli who is #8 in all-time passing yards and has 2 rings... hard to call him a bust. I'd say Luck was a better player than Eli, but never had the same team success, and obviously injuries and a pre-mature retirement hurt his legacy.

Agree with you about the Jets games though! Jacksonville fans will be abnormally concerned about those!
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#38

(11-23-2020, 11:53 AM)HolsterHusto Wrote:
(11-23-2020, 11:45 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: Why on Earth do you think Lawrence wouldn't want to play in the country's largest television market and opt to play for the Jaguars who have been historically horrible?

I didn’t say that he would demand a trade to Jax, just that he wouldn’t want to play for the Jets. But a few reasons could be:

1) No state income tax
2) Not having to deal with the NY media, which he already seems annoyed with based some of his Clemson press conferences
3) Small town southern kid may not like the idea of NY
4) Won’t have to play/live in New Jersey
5) Closer to home and his family 

I don’t know how Trevor feels about NY... no one does. It’s not likely, but that is probably the only way NY would trade the pick.

he would be closer to his family if he went to panthers cause they are in carolina. clemson is in south carolina.




snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

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#39
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2020, 11:27 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(11-27-2020, 07:47 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(11-27-2020, 03:00 AM)Eric1 Wrote: Mahomes went #10 overall though and Watson went #12. It's not like either of those guys were looked at as locks, so again it just proves how much of a crap shoot it is drafting QBs.

Most of these players that are hyped up as generational talents fail to live up to the hype.

There's really only two options why the Jets wouldn't take Lawrence. He either stays in school, or he tries to force a trade (or I guess they win a couple games, but that's highly unlikely). If he's going to try and force a trade, he's a [BLEEP] and not a true franchise QB.

Lawrence is being spoken of like John Elway or Peyton Manning.  Not since Andrew Luck has anyone been considered a generational talent like this.  Not Cam Newton.  Not Baker Mayfield.  Not Sam Bradford.  Not Matthew Stafford.  What QB are you referring to that has been hyped like this and missed?

That being said, it will be up to our new GM to determine if that assessment is warranted and evaluate the price they would be willing to pay to get him.  Unless the Jets can beat the Dolphins this weekend... that would help!

I gotta disagree with this assessment. I like Lawrence a lot and see him as by far, the best QB prospect in this draft, but I definitely don't consider him a generational talent. In fact, I don't think he's as good as Joe Burrow was coming out of college last year and I certainly don't think he's as good as Andrew Luck was either. Luck was the last QB that I would've genuinely given almost anything to trade up for. I just don't like trading up, ever. Luck was the only time I went against that idea. In general, I like trading down and accumulating picks or just staying put. If we finish with the #2 pick, I say stay put and take Sewell. If we finish lower than #2, I'd have to see who's ahead of us. In my mind there is two elite players in that draft (Lawrence and Sewell.) If we can't get either one, we might as well trade down a few spots and accumulate more picks for 2022.
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#40
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2020, 11:42 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(11-27-2020, 11:26 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(11-27-2020, 07:47 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: Lawrence is being spoken of like John Elway or Peyton Manning.  Not since Andrew Luck has anyone been considered a generational talent like this.  Not Cam Newton.  Not Baker Mayfield.  Not Sam Bradford.  Not Matthew Stafford.  What QB are you referring to that has been hyped like this and missed?

That being said, it will be up to our new GM to determine if that assessment is warranted and evaluate the price they would be willing to pay to get him.  Unless the Jets can beat the Dolphins this weekend... that would help!

I gotta disagree with this assessment. I like Lawrence a lot and see him as by far, the best QB prospect in this draft, but I definitely don't consider him a generational talent. In fact, I don't think he's as good as Joe Burrow was coming out of college last year and I certainly don't think he's as good as Andrew Luck was either. Luck was the last QB that I would've genuinely given almost anything to trade up for. I just don't like trading up, ever. Luck was the only time I went against that idea. In general, I like trading down and accumulating picks or just staying put. If we finish with the #2 pick, I say stay put and take Sewell. If we finish lower than #2, I'd have to see who's ahead of us. In my mind there is two elite players in that draft (Lawrence and Sewell.) If we can't get either one, we might as well trade down a few spots and accumulate more picks for 2022.

Its not my assessment; I haven't  watched him enough to form a strong opinion one way or the other.  I'm just saying that the hype and rhetoric around him hasn't been this high on a QB prospect since Luck came out, and only matched by the other guys I've mentioned.  I'm just saying, if you believe this guy is that type of talent, then you try to go up (within reason) to get him.  As a rule, I'm with you on moving back and accumulating picks unless you love a guy's value at your draft position.  If you move up to get a guy, its OK to be aggressive... but you better be right.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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