That's true to a point, however ultimately talent will tell. For example, I competed athletically at the high school level but no amount of technique and experience would have made it possible for me to compete in the NBA or NFL. That's an extreme case obviously but it applies to professionals as well.

We aren't talking about some random person here, we are talking about Taylor and Taylor doesn't lack talent. That's why so many people still see a potential pro bowler in him.

To act like he doesn't have the tools to succeed is absurd.

What he lacks is technique and that can only come with practice and experience.

Will he ever develop the technique needed? No one knows at this point, but to give up on him after 2 seasons is ignorant.

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That's true to a point, however ultimately talent will tell. For example, I competed athletically at the high school level but no amount of technique and experience would have made it possible for me to compete in the NBA or NFL. That's an extreme case obviously but it applies to professionals as well.

We aren't talking about some random person here, we are talking about Taylor and Taylor doesn't lack talent. That's why so many people still see a potential pro bowler in him.

To act like he doesn't have the tools to succeed is absurd.

What he lacks is technique and that can only come with practice and experience.

Will he ever develop the technique needed? No one knows at this point, but to give up on him after 2 seasons is ignorant.

So many? Like who?

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I think it's too early to give up on Taylor. His rookie season was very promising according to several analysts who know much more than I. That list includes Tony Boselli and Jeff Lageman, whose opinions on line play I do respect. He was also on the PFF all rookie team in 2019 and his play improved as the season went on. No doubt, he played poorly last season. However, based on the potential he showed during his rookie season it would be a shame to let him go and see him succeed with a different team. This has been the case with many ex-Jaguars. We should all know after this season whether Taylor is a bust or can be a solid starter at right tackle.

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I think it's too early to give up on Taylor. His rookie season was very promising according to several analysts who know much more than I. That list includes Tony Boselli and Jeff Lageman, whose opinions on line play I do respect. He was also on the PFF all rookie team in 2019 and his play improved as the season went on. No doubt, he played poorly last season. However, based on the potential he showed during his rookie season it would be a shame to let him go and see him succeed with a different team. This has been the case with many ex-Jaguars. We should all know after this season whether Taylor is a bust or can be a solid starter at right tackle.

Boselli is a complete Jaguars homer.  He also vigorously defended Luke Joeckel.

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I think it's too early to give up on Taylor. His rookie season was very promising according to several analysts who know much more than I. That list includes Tony Boselli and Jeff Lageman, whose opinions on line play I do respect. He was also on the PFF all rookie team in 2019 and his play improved as the season went on. No doubt, he played poorly last season. However, based on the potential he showed during his rookie season it would be a shame to let him go and see him succeed with a different team. This has been the case with many ex-Jaguars. We should all know after this season whether Taylor is a bust or can be a solid starter at right tackle.

Boselli is a complete Jaguars homer.  He also vigorously defended Luke Joeckel.

I like Boselli but this is so true. If you listen to him closely you'd assume the Jaguars have never had a bad player, lol.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Taylor and Robinson should of both been moved to guards where they would have shined.

Yes, and move norwell to center, and linder and bartch to tackle.  Problem solved.

This post cracked me up.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Even PFF said Taylor's rookie season wasn't any good it was just that there were no other candidates and he basically got on the team by default.

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I wouldn't read much into it.  It's a deep draft class and I would expect at least 2 OT and 2 G to be drafted.  We really only need 4 new starters on the OL, C is pretty much set.

That would be my hope, but as I ponder Meyer's words, taking them at face value, I think there will not be a heavy emphasis on OL in the draft.

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The oline isn't that bad except that we have bottom tier players at both of the most important positions on the line.

So where does Cann fall along the spectrum?

Throughout his stay here, Cann has been identified as a problem by most persons here.

In fact, Norwell has been trashed here by a few over the years.

You identified the tackles as a problem, but what Cann and Norwell?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Age doesn't matter. Performance does and he is ranked near the very bottom of the league at the OT position for his blocking. We have a new QB coming in that we MUST protect. He cannot play like he has been playing. We have a lot of options in free agency, via trade and via draft. There should be no excuses not to upgrade both OT spots. The interior is fine.

To say age doesn't matter means development and experience doesn't matter. Which is a farce.

If you don't give players time to develop and gain experience you will never have a solid roster.

It would be great if there were no salary cap and we can put experienced vets who play at a high level at every position, but that's just not reality.

We have to play young inexperienced players who may under perform for a couple of years if we ever hope to develop them into experienced productive veterans. That's how it works in every profession.

Every year there will be players who make that jump from inexperienced under performing player to an experienced performing vet.

If you don't allow for that natural progression to happen with your young players, you will be continuously spinning your wheels building a roster.

Taylor is entering his 3rd season, a season that that is a typical season for players making the development jump to experienced vet.

If he doesn't show improvement next year, then there is cause for concern.

But focusing on replacing a 2nd year high draft pick with someone who you can't even guarantee would end up actually being an improvement, especially someone like Taylor who so many still hold in high regards for his potential, will likely just be counter productive.

This question is usually reserved for QBs, but how long does it take for a T to develop?

Cam Robinson has reached free agency eligibility, though he missed substantial time with a knee injury.

Taylor has gotten into his 3rd year?

I agree with you that there has to be time allowed for development, but how long until the player moves from undeveloped to lost cause/asset?

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Taylor and Robinson should of both been moved to guards where they would have shined.

Given what transpired in Seattle under Bevell, that may be what happens here with one of them.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Urban Meyer was interviewed after the TL workout, and one of the things that stood out to me was a statement by him indicating  our OL was "pretty good and not a blow it up type situation."

Now for those of us who see the OL being of paramount concern, it's something of a troubling statement.

To me there are three possibilities.

1.  It's the first instance of pre draft smoke from Meyer.    If so...good job Urban.  You're learning to play the game.

2.  He was honest.  If that's the case, it still may not be as bad as it might seem.  It could mean that while it's not a "blow it up situation," it may be a case of adding another player to the miz, which could allow for a Trent Williams or a Brown to upgrade LT.  If this is the case, then I think the prospects of upgrading the OL are still in good shape.

3.  It COULD mean he won't address OL in any significant way, and the team's offseason attention will be focused on other areas of the team.  To me, that's a worst case scenario, because Trevor Lawrence needs a better level of protection than this OL has proven able to provide.

Thoughts?

Don't read too much into Urban saying it's not a blow it up situation.  He also said that there would be changes.  Urban's not a dumb guy.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

To say age doesn't matter means development and experience doesn't matter. Which is a farce.

If you don't give players time to develop and gain experience you will never have a solid roster.

It would be great if there were no salary cap and we can put experienced vets who play at a high level at every position, but that's just not reality.

We have to play young inexperienced players who may under perform for a couple of years if we ever hope to develop them into experienced productive veterans. That's how it works in every profession.

Every year there will be players who make that jump from inexperienced under performing player to an experienced performing vet.

If you don't allow for that natural progression to happen with your young players, you will be continuously spinning your wheels building a roster.

Taylor is entering his 3rd season, a season that that is a typical season for players making the development jump to experienced vet.

If he doesn't show improvement next year, then there is cause for concern.

But focusing on replacing a 2nd year high draft pick with someone who you can't even guarantee would end up actually being an improvement, especially someone like Taylor who so many still hold in high regards for his potential, will likely just be counter productive.

This question is usually reserved for QBs, but how long does it take for a T to develop?

Cam Robinson has reached free agency eligibility, though he missed substantial time with a knee injury.

Taylor has gotten into his 3rd year?

I agree with you that there has to be time allowed for development, but how long until the player moves from undeveloped to lost cause/asset?

---

My answer would be that it depends on the player.  It's different for every player.  And that's why we pay the coaches- to make those kinds of judgments.  

Look at Josh Allen of Buffalo, for example.

---

The problem isn't experience, it's that Taylor's feet are too damn slow. That's not something that gets fixed with experience. Like I said when we drafted him, it was a huge mistake to pair Taylor with Cam to make the heaviest footed OT pairing in the league. Two years later we cannot make the same mistake with the new face of the franchise coming to town. We must upgrade both spots. Taylor can compete with Cann at guard if they want to try to salvage him.

Technique overcomes limitations and that only comes with experience.

If you don't understand that, than you have never competed athletically in your life and had the dedication to improve yourself.

Experience and development teaches you how to overcome weaknesses.

I think in some, and even many cases that's true.  But that's not an absolute.  An undersized OL who plays with good leverage and understanding of angles can successfully block a bigger guy.

But there is a reason Ts are typically 6-4 or taller, and that long arms are preferred by scouts.  Operating within those physical paradigms are important to playing the position.

Tony Boselli himself could teach me OL technique for years.  I could grasp the concepts completely.

But if you were to put my 51 year old, 5-8 185 lb frame at LT, you'd have an unmitigated disaster at the position, because I wouldn't have the physical ability to successfully implement the proper technique effectively.

Now obviously Taylor is not nearly as physically hamstrung as I am in my absurd and nightmarish example above, but all it takes is one physical shortcoming for a guy to be a liability at a position, even if technically sound.

Foot speed/agility is an important factor, which is why many technically sound college tackles get moved inside.

Could more coaching and development lead to better foot speed by Taylor?  Sure.  If Warhop and Meyer decide that Taylor played at a lighter weight, if they taught him to use better angles, it would be an example of coaching/experience/improved technique could mitigate physical shortcomings.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Urban Meyer was interviewed after the TL workout, and one of the things that stood out to me was a statement by him indicating  our OL was "pretty good and not a blow it up type situation."

Now for those of us who see the OL being of paramount concern, it's something of a troubling statement.

To me there are three possibilities.

1.  It's the first instance of pre draft smoke from Meyer.    If so...good job Urban.  You're learning to play the game.

2.  He was honest.  If that's the case, it still may not be as bad as it might seem.  It could mean that while it's not a "blow it up situation," it may be a case of adding another player to the miz, which could allow for a Trent Williams or a Brown to upgrade LT.  If this is the case, then I think the prospects of upgrading the OL are still in good shape.

3.  It COULD mean he won't address OL in any significant way, and the team's offseason attention will be focused on other areas of the team.  To me, that's a worst case scenario, because Trevor Lawrence needs a better level of protection than this OL has proven able to provide.

Thoughts?

Don't read too much into Urban saying it's not a blow it up situation.  He also said that there would be changes.  Urban's not a dumb guy.

I do not assert he's dumb.

But I haven't followed his career closely enough to purport to have any insight as to what/how he is thinking, and that is exacerbated by him making the change from college to pro.

Not having an idea of how the team will proceed in building the team adds some mystery and excitement to things, but it sucks when it comes to message board analysis, which, as we know, is always accurate and on point.  

---

This question is usually reserved for QBs, but how long does it take for a T to develop?

Cam Robinson has reached free agency eligibility, though he missed substantial time with a knee injury.

Taylor has gotten into his 3rd year?

I agree with you that there has to be time allowed for development, but how long until the player moves from undeveloped to lost cause/asset?

---

My answer would be that it depends on the player.  It's different for every player.  And that's why we pay the coaches- to make those kinds of judgments.  

Look at Josh Allen of Buffalo, for example.

Correctamundo!

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I wouldn't read much into it.  It's a deep draft class and I would expect at least 2 OT and 2 G to be drafted.  We really only need 4 new starters on the OL, C is pretty much set.

That would be my hope, but as I ponder Meyer's words, taking them at face value, I think there will not be a heavy emphasis on OL in the draft.

---

The oline isn't that bad except that we have bottom tier players at both of the most important positions on the line.

So where does Cann fall along the spectrum?

Throughout his stay here, Cann has been identified as a problem by most persons here.

In fact, Norwell has been trashed here by a few over the years.

You identified the tackles as a problem, but what Cann and Norwell?

Cann finally went from being bad to serviceable. He's still a long way from being good and I'm hoping Bartch will make enough strides to beat him out for the RG position. With that said, I know we're not gonna fix every single position on this team in one season, but protecting Lawrence is an absolute must. If we can get every one of our starting O-Linemen and key backups to a "serviceable" level, I'm good with that. Not everyone is gonna be stars. It took Cann a long time to get to this level. 

Norwell was very good last year. He was by far, our best O-Lineman. Yes, he wasn't good for us early on in his contract, but he was better in 2019 and then really good in 2020. He was also excellent in Carolina, so he was a proven commodity when we signed him. I think he had to overcome a lot of the poor coaching we had/have on this team regarding the O-Line. Warhop is after all, the worst O-Line Coach in the league. We cannot afford to take a "wait and see" approach with the OT's. Neither has ever been to an even serviceable level. We finally have a potentially "elite" QB coming in and he must be protected from day 1. We haven't had this luxury for 25 years and we need to keep him healthy at all cost, especially his blindside.

---

To say age doesn't matter means development and experience doesn't matter. Which is a farce.

If you don't give players time to develop and gain experience you will never have a solid roster.

It would be great if there were no salary cap and we can put experienced vets who play at a high level at every position, but that's just not reality.

We have to play young inexperienced players who may under perform for a couple of years if we ever hope to develop them into experienced productive veterans. That's how it works in every profession.

Every year there will be players who make that jump from inexperienced under performing player to an experienced performing vet.

If you don't allow for that natural progression to happen with your young players, you will be continuously spinning your wheels building a roster.

Taylor is entering his 3rd season, a season that that is a typical season for players making the development jump to experienced vet.

If he doesn't show improvement next year, then there is cause for concern.

But focusing on replacing a 2nd year high draft pick with someone who you can't even guarantee would end up actually being an improvement, especially someone like Taylor who so many still hold in high regards for his potential, will likely just be counter productive.

This question is usually reserved for QBs, but how long does it take for a T to develop?

Cam Robinson has reached free agency eligibility, though he missed substantial time with a knee injury.

Taylor has gotten into his 3rd year?

I agree with you that there has to be time allowed for development, but how long until the player moves from undeveloped to lost cause/asset?

---

Taylor and Robinson should of both been moved to guards where they would have shined.

Given what transpired in Seattle under Bevell, that may be what happens here with one of them.

Robinson has had plenty of time to heal and still hasn't taken the next step. He's had his entire rookie contract to prove himself and he hasn't. OT's usually take a big jump in their 2nd season, if they are gonna be any good. Even if you take into account the year he missed with injury, he's still the same heavy footed, slow OT he was when we drafted him. That's just not good enough, considering we have an elite QB coming in. It's time to "cut bait" on Robinson. He is what he is. That is clear. 

Taylor maybe early into his career, but take into consideration that good OT's normally make a positive leap in year 2 of being in the league. Taylor was not good as a rookie and he actually regressed last season. That is not a good sign at all. He was beaten badly last year. He actually played worse than Robinson did. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we cut him right now and totally give up on him, but what we are saying is that he needs to earn his starting position. He basically was the starter at RT by default, because we had no one else. He needs real competition for that starting spot. If he does have potential, that will push him to get better. If not, he will be replaced as the starter and he will be relegated to a backup role. Either way, it must be done.

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Yes, and move norwell to center, and linder and bartch to tackle.  Problem solved.

This post cracked me up.

It's like a trap play, only you run it all season long!

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

So where does Cann fall along the spectrum?

Throughout his stay here, Cann has been identified as a problem by most persons here.

In fact, Norwell has been trashed here by a few over the years.

You identified the tackles as a problem, but what Cann and Norwell?

I did say recently in one of these threads that I was worried we were putting too much faith in one average year of Cann, but average is good enough at guard so if he can just maintain that then that's fine by me. I am not willing to accept average at tackle. And what we have isn't even close to simply average.

---

Urban Meyer was interviewed after the TL workout, and one of the things that stood out to me was a statement by him indicating  our OL was "pretty good and not a blow it up type situation."

Now for those of us who see the OL being of paramount concern, it's something of a troubling statement.

To me there are three possibilities.

1.  It's the first instance of pre draft smoke from Meyer.    If so...good job Urban.  You're learning to play the game.

2.  He was honest.  If that's the case, it still may not be as bad as it might seem.  It could mean that while it's not a "blow it up situation," it may be a case of adding another player to the miz, which could allow for a Trent Williams or a Brown to upgrade LT.  If this is the case, then I think the prospects of upgrading the OL are still in good shape.

3.  It COULD mean he won't address OL in any significant way, and the team's offseason attention will be focused on other areas of the team.  To me, that's a worst case scenario, because Trevor Lawrence needs a better level of protection than this OL has proven able to provide.

Thoughts?

I know many people are answering what they would do, but I'll go back to the original question which was what will Meyer do.  I think it is #2 or #3.  I don't think it is a smoke screen.  It's not just words, but his actions.  His only offensive coach holdover was the offensive line coach.  To me, that says that he doesn't think they are that bad.  It also likely implies that he wants consistency at the position group.  Barring injury, I think Norwell, Linder, Cann and yes, even Taylor are back as our opening day starters.  The question is Robinson.  I really hope that Meyer upgrades the position.  However, I find it surprising how many people in the local sports media are either advocating to re-sign Robinson or at least consider it a "tough decision".  Did they watch him play?  I think that's an easy decision.  I like both the Trent Williams or Orlando Brown options with using our #25 pick as our fall back option.  However, we don't have much of a track record with Meyer, so it's hard to know what he's thinking.

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So where does Cann fall along the spectrum?

Throughout his stay here, Cann has been identified as a problem by most persons here.

In fact, Norwell has been trashed here by a few over the years.

You identified the tackles as a problem, but what Cann and Norwell?

Norwell played well.  I think he opened up a lot of big holes that led to James Robinson's success.

In regards to Cann, he took a step forward last year.  He's not great, but he's good enough that the team has higher priorities at other positions, so it's unlikely the Jaguars devote significant resources to it this off-season.  I think they also see if Bartch, a small school rookie project from last year, can develop at his position.

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...after retaining Warhop, we are surprised when the HC rejects the idea of blowing up the line? Really?

if the situation were dire, there would have been turnover from the top on down.

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