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Perfect first 5 picks?

#61

(02-17-2021, 11:03 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 10:52 PM)Upper Wrote: You're completely missing the point.

Not really, I'd try to go after a S/TE/CB after I try to upgrade the trenches

Look up the definition of the phrase opportunity cost.
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#62

(02-17-2021, 10:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 09:51 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Totally agree. Of all the positions of need we have, I REALLY want us to fill TE and Safety needs via free agency.

S and TE are secondary to me in FA behind oline and dline

If we can't get Trent Williams, I only wanna fill the needs on both sides of the line, via the draft.
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#63
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021, 12:27 AM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(02-17-2021, 10:24 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 09:44 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: I don't know. I watched all the OSU games last season and I don't know what happened to Wade. I watched him get absolutely torched in multiple games. Judging from last year's play, I think he had more negatives than positives. He was out of position a lot and bit on too many fakes. I just think there are better options out there.


I like Paris Ford a lot more than Moehrig. Ford could probably be had in rounds 3 or 4. I don't view Moehrig as a game changer at all.

Moehig Flys all over the place and can play both safety positions, dudes a beast.  Not sure what makes you think Ford had in the 4th round, and in the 3rd is highly unlikely.  Ford is a beast as well.  It all depends on who is sitting there in the 2nd and how the draft falls to say.  I'm not gonna just discount Moehrig and Friermuth though because of their positions.  Would I like to get a lineman rated higher?  Sure, but I'm not gonna reach on a position, im taking the best player

If all goes to plan, I'd fill the QB, LT, CB and hopefully DE/DT positions with our first 5 picks. I'd just have to wait and see who was available at those picks and if a big time play maker at another position falls to us. The OT position is loaded. I have several guys that I believe will be significant upgrades over Robinson, so I'm not really stressing on that. I also see a lot of defensive linemen I like, both at DE/DT and DE/OLB. There aren't a lot of elite CB's in this class though, so I'd probably select one of them in the first 33 picks to make sure we get a good one, but if my top guys are gone by then, I'm not gonna force it. I know we're not gonna be able to fill every need we have in one year. I hope the team is very choosy about who they select. We need a lot of new starters. We cannot afford to reach. We reached for needs last year and it backfired.
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#64

(02-18-2021, 12:26 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 10:24 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Moehig Flys all over the place and can play both safety positions, dudes a beast.  Not sure what makes you think Ford had in the 4th round, and in the 3rd is highly unlikely.  Ford is a beast as well.  It all depends on who is sitting there in the 2nd and how the draft falls to say.  I'm not gonna just discount Moehrig and Friermuth though because of their positions.  Would I like to get a lineman rated higher?  Sure, but I'm not gonna reach on a position, im taking the best player

If all goes to plan, I'd fill the QB, LT, CB and hopefully DE/DT positions with our first 5 picks. I'd just have to wait and see who was available at those picks and if a big time play maker at another position falls to us. The OT position is loaded. I have several guys that I believe will be significant upgrades over Robinson, so I'm not really stressing on that. I also see a lot of defensive linemen I like, both at DE/DT and DE/OLB. There aren't a lot of elite CB's in this class though, so I'd probably select one of them in the first 33 picks to make sure we get a good one, but if my top guys are gone by then, I'm not gonna force it. I know we're not gonna be able to fill every need we have in one year. I hope the team is very choosy about who they select. We need a lot of new starters. We cannot afford to reach. We reached for needs last year and it backfired.

An OT should be selected at either pick 25, or 33. Would be a mistake to not grab one with one of those picks. Defense should be the selection with whichever one isn't used to grab an OT.

If they want to add another WR via the draft, it should be done with pick 45, or 65. The 2nd and 3rd rounds has provided some of the best bang for your buck WR wise for multiple years now. I don't see why that trend would stop this draft. You can go back and look at the recent drafts in the past handful of years and there's been a good number of hits at WR in those two rounds. Of course there's some misses, but there's far more hits. It's definitely the sweet spot for WRs. Obviously if we snag somebody in FA at WR it changes some things, so we can use either pick 45 or 65 somewhere else, ideally on Defense.

Ideally TE and Safety will be addressed in FA and they wont have to reach/settle for somebody early to fill a need at those positions via the draft. It'll also give us a little freedom to play the draft board as far as CB/DL/LB go.
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#65

(02-18-2021, 12:49 AM)Eric1 Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 12:26 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: If all goes to plan, I'd fill the QB, LT, CB and hopefully DE/DT positions with our first 5 picks. I'd just have to wait and see who was available at those picks and if a big time play maker at another position falls to us. The OT position is loaded. I have several guys that I believe will be significant upgrades over Robinson, so I'm not really stressing on that. I also see a lot of defensive linemen I like, both at DE/DT and DE/OLB. There aren't a lot of elite CB's in this class though, so I'd probably select one of them in the first 33 picks to make sure we get a good one, but if my top guys are gone by then, I'm not gonna force it. I know we're not gonna be able to fill every need we have in one year. I hope the team is very choosy about who they select. We need a lot of new starters. We cannot afford to reach. We reached for needs last year and it backfired.

An OT should be selected at either pick 25, or 33. Would be a mistake to not grab one with one of those picks. Defense should be the selection with whichever one isn't used to grab an OT.

If they want to add another WR via the draft, it should be done with pick 45, or 65. The 2nd and 3rd rounds has provided some of the best bang for your buck WR wise for multiple years now. I don't see why that trend would stop this draft. You can go back and look at the recent drafts in the past handful of years and there's been a good number of hits at WR in those two rounds. Of course there's some misses, but there's far more hits. It's definitely the sweet spot for WRs. Obviously if we snag somebody in FA at WR it changes some things, so we can use either pick 45 or 65 somewhere else, ideally on Defense.

Ideally TE and Safety will be addressed in FA and they wont have to reach/settle for somebody early to fill a need at those positions via the draft. It'll also give us a little freedom to play the draft board as far as CB/DL/LB go.

I would love to not have to draft a TE or Safety in this draft, because we get those players via free agency. It would allow us to do a lot of other things with those picks. I just don't see a rookie TE making that much impact right away, whereas an experienced veteran can serve as a "safety net" for a rookie QB. As far as Safety, I just don't see an elite Safety in this draft class. The free agent Safeties are plentiful and have some very intriguing players. Right now, I see a WR as a luxury pick and isn't really something that needs addressing, but if we fill a couple of key positions via free agency, I would definitely be open to selecting another WR. Right now, I'm thinking we use the #25 pick on an OT. We also have to address the secondary, most likely CB opposite Henderson. The position was a mess last year and with this draft class being thin at the position, I don't wanna come out of the 2nd round without one of the top corners. If we can do these things and add a Safety in free agency, that alone should make us a much improved team and we could add one of the WR's, probably at #45. 

I'm a big fan of Sage Surratt of Wake Forest, but I also like Elijah Moore of Mississippi, Terrance Marshall of LSU, Tylan Wallace of Oklahoma State or Amon-Ra St. Brown of USC. I could see many of those guys being available at that pick. I believe Ja'Marr Chase, DeVonta Smith, Jaylen Waddle, Rondale Moore and Rashod Bateman should be gone in round 1.
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#66

(02-18-2021, 12:16 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 10:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: S and TE are secondary to me in FA behind oline and dline

If we can't get Trent Williams, I only wanna fill the needs on both sides of the line, via the draft.

I'd be more than happy with Okung and Leonard Williams.  Von Miller I'd also try to get if available
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#67

Asanti Samuel is another guy id look at with one of our 2nds. He's a bit smaller than I like but he's damn good and I always like taking good players when their dad played and was good. Most of the time their son turns out to be a good player too. He would be perfect to put on the smaller quick WRs while we can put CJ on the bigger WRs
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#68
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021, 11:04 AM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(02-18-2021, 07:19 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 12:16 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: If we can't get Trent Williams, I only wanna fill the needs on both sides of the line, via the draft.

I'd be more than happy with Okung and Leonard Williams.  Von Miller I'd also try to get if available

Not a fan of Okung at this point in his career. He hasn't started 16 games full games since 2016 and has only started 13 games combined in the last 2 seasons. 

Von Miller is starting to slow down a little and is gonna be 32 years old. Injuries are starting to catch up with him. He's probably gonna want a long term deal and you are probably only gonna get 2 years worth of production from him, max. Defensive linemen normally lose production in their 30's. 

I might be interested in Williams, depending on his price tag.
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#69

(02-18-2021, 11:00 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Asanti Samuel is another guy id look at with one of our 2nds.  He's a bit smaller than I like but he's damn good and I always like taking good players when their dad played and was good.  Most of the time their son turns out to be a good player too.  He would be perfect to put on the smaller quick WRs while we can put CJ on the bigger WRs

He is productive, but I have an admitted bias against short CB's. NFL receivers today, are big and fast. Corners need to have size to match up with them in man to man. Maybe if we only played him at Nickle, but our main CB issue is the starting spot opposite Henderson. I really like Eric Stokes of Georgia, Ifeatu Melifonwu of Syracuse, Greg Newsome of Northwestern, Kelvin Joseph of Kentucky and Tyson Campbell of Georgia.
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#70
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021, 12:08 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(02-18-2021, 11:11 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 11:00 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Asanti Samuel is another guy id look at with one of our 2nds.  He's a bit smaller than I like but he's damn good and I always like taking good players when their dad played and was good.  Most of the time their son turns out to be a good player too.  He would be perfect to put on the smaller quick WRs while we can put CJ on the bigger WRs

He is productive, but I have an admitted bias against short CB's. NFL receivers today, are big and fast. Corners need to have size to match up with them in man to man. Maybe if we only played him at Nickle, but our main CB issue is the starting spot opposite Henderson. I really like Eric Stokes of Georgia, Ifeatu Melifonwu of Syracuse, Greg Newsome of Northwestern, Kelvin Joseph of Kentucky and Tyson Campbell of Georgia.
Give me Samuel over any of the guys you just named.  You also need a good corner that can cover some of the smaller and shifter/ quicker WRs.  Samuel would give us that and you put CJ on the bigger more physical WR

(02-18-2021, 11:04 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 07:19 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I'd be more than happy with Okung and Leonard Williams.  Von Miller I'd also try to get if available

Not a fan of Okung at this point in his career. He hasn't started 16 games full games since 2016 and has only started 13 games combined in the last 2 seasons. 

Von Miller is starting to slow down a little and is gonna be 32 years old. Injuries are starting to catch up with him. He's probably gonna want a long term deal and you are probably only gonna get 2 years worth of production from him, max. Defensive linemen normally lose production in their 30's. 

I might be interested in Williams, depending on his price tag.

Thats a bad argument, because the guy you would give 30 mil a year to hasn't started all 16 games since 2013 lol.  Miller was hurt all last year year.  Of course before I signed him I would make sure he would be 100% before the season started
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#71

I like Samuel more than those guys too, but I think we would absolutely have to take Samuel at 33 and I would rather get Rondale, one of the tackles that slips, or McNeil and then take a corner with 46 or 65. This CB class is so deep there will be more good ones then.
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#72
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021, 03:00 PM by Cleatwood.)

(02-18-2021, 02:18 PM)Upper Wrote: I like Samuel more than those guys too, but I think we would absolutely have to take Samuel at 33 and I would rather get Rondale, one of the tackles that slips, or McNeil and then take a corner with 46 or 65. This CB class is so deep there will be more good ones then.
Sign Williams and Jonnu.

Draft Trevor, Jenkins, Rondale Moore. Offense takes off.
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#73

(02-18-2021, 02:18 PM)Upper Wrote: I like Samuel more than those guys too, but I think we would absolutely have to take Samuel at 33 and I would rather get Rondale, one of the tackles that slips, or McNeil and then take a corner with 46 or 65. This CB class is so deep there will be more good ones then.

I'm not as high on the corner class as you are, I think it's a little weak tbh. I'm not looking at positions though, I'm taking who I feel is the BPA.  I don't think LB is that high on the list of needs for us but is Zaven Collins is there at 25, I'd probably take him depending on who else is available as I think he would be BPA.  I. Hoping we go defense early and heavy though and they fall in BPA
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#74
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021, 03:18 PM by Upper.)

(02-18-2021, 03:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 02:18 PM)Upper Wrote: I like Samuel more than those guys too, but I think we would absolutely have to take Samuel at 33 and I would rather get Rondale, one of the tackles that slips, or McNeil and then take a corner with 46 or 65. This CB class is so deep there will be more good ones then.

I'm not as high on the corner class as you are, I think it's a little weak tbh. I'm not looking at positions though, I'm taking who I feel is the BPA.  I don't think LB is that high on the list of needs for us but is Zaven Collins is there at 25, I'd probably take him depending on who else is available as I think he would be BPA.  I. Hoping we go defense early and heavy though and they fall in BPA

I'm not super high on any of them (not even Horn or Samuel), but there are a lot of them and I think there are like 10 pretty decent ones. Just take the one that falls to 65 after loading up on the lines and hopefully a playmaker and call it a day.

(02-18-2021, 02:59 PM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 02:18 PM)Upper Wrote: I like Samuel more than those guys too, but I think we would absolutely have to take Samuel at 33 and I would rather get Rondale, one of the tackles that slips, or McNeil and then take a corner with 46 or 65. This CB class is so deep there will be more good ones then.
Sign Williams and Jonnu.

Draft Trevor, Jenkins, Rondale Moore. Offense takes off.

Well you already know that those are my 5 dreams exactly.
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#75

(02-18-2021, 03:18 PM)Upper Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 03:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I'm not as high on the corner class as you are, I think it's a little weak tbh. I'm not looking at positions though, I'm taking who I feel is the BPA.  I don't think LB is that high on the list of needs for us but is Zaven Collins is there at 25, I'd probably take him depending on who else is available as I think he would be BPA.  I. Hoping we go defense early and heavy though and they fall in BPA

I'm not super high on any of them (not even Horn or Samuel), but there are a lot of them and I think there are like 10 pretty decent ones. Just take the one that falls to 65 after loading up on the lines and hopefully a playmaker and call it a day.

(02-18-2021, 02:59 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: Sign Williams and Jonnu.

Draft Trevor, Jenkins, Rondale Moore. Offense takes off.

Well you already know that those are my 5 dreams exactly.
I’m interchangeable with Jonnu and another vet TE but everything else should really be the plan.

I’m as much offensive help as possible this off season.
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#76
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021, 05:05 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(02-18-2021, 12:05 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 11:11 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: He is productive, but I have an admitted bias against short CB's. NFL receivers today, are big and fast. Corners need to have size to match up with them in man to man. Maybe if we only played him at Nickle, but our main CB issue is the starting spot opposite Henderson. I really like Eric Stokes of Georgia, Ifeatu Melifonwu of Syracuse, Greg Newsome of Northwestern, Kelvin Joseph of Kentucky and Tyson Campbell of Georgia.
Give me Samuel over any of the guys you just named.  You also need a good corner that can cover some of the smaller and shifter/ quicker WRs.  Samuel would give us that and you put CJ on the bigger more physical WR

(02-18-2021, 11:04 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Not a fan of Okung at this point in his career. He hasn't started 16 games full games since 2016 and has only started 13 games combined in the last 2 seasons. 

Von Miller is starting to slow down a little and is gonna be 32 years old. Injuries are starting to catch up with him. He's probably gonna want a long term deal and you are probably only gonna get 2 years worth of production from him, max. Defensive linemen normally lose production in their 30's. 

I might be interested in Williams, depending on his price tag.

Thats a bad argument, because the guy you would give 30 mil a year to hasn't started all 16 games since 2013 lol.  Miller was hurt all last year year.  Of course before I signed him I would make sure he would be 100% before the season started

Williams started 14 games last season and has never started less than 10. Okung only started 13 games in the last 2 years combined and has a history of injuries his entire career. He's only started 16 games once, in his 11 year career. That's a HUGE difference. 

I've also read several articles that Von Miller is under criminal investigation by Colorado police. No word of what for, but something is going on. Just google it. That's a huge red flag.

(02-18-2021, 02:18 PM)Upper Wrote: I like Samuel more than those guys too, but I think we would absolutely have to take Samuel at 33 and I would rather get Rondale, one of the tackles that slips, or McNeil and then take a corner with 46 or 65. This CB class is so deep there will be more good ones then.

I don't see this CB class being deep at all, but I wouldn't even consider drafting a CB under 5'11" and most of the guys on the board after round 2 are probably gonna 5'10" and under. Caldwell drafted several DB's in the last draft who were small and look how our secondary performed.
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#77

(02-18-2021, 03:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 02:18 PM)Upper Wrote: I like Samuel more than those guys too, but I think we would absolutely have to take Samuel at 33 and I would rather get Rondale, one of the tackles that slips, or McNeil and then take a corner with 46 or 65. This CB class is so deep there will be more good ones then.

I'm not as high on the corner class as you are, I think it's a little weak tbh. I'm not looking at positions though, I'm taking who I feel is the BPA.  I don't think LB is that high on the list of needs for us but is Zaven Collins is there at 25, I'd probably take him depending on who else is available as I think he would be BPA.  I. Hoping we go defense early and heavy though and they fall in BPA

I'm a big fan of Zaven Collins as well. He is an every down linebacker with a complete skill set.
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#78

(02-18-2021, 03:18 PM)Upper Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 03:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I'm not as high on the corner class as you are, I think it's a little weak tbh. I'm not looking at positions though, I'm taking who I feel is the BPA.  I don't think LB is that high on the list of needs for us but is Zaven Collins is there at 25, I'd probably take him depending on who else is available as I think he would be BPA.  I. Hoping we go defense early and heavy though and they fall in BPA

I'm not super high on any of them (not even Horn or Samuel), but there are a lot of them and I think there are like 10 pretty decent ones. Just take the one that falls to 65 after loading up on the lines and hopefully a playmaker and call it a day.

(02-18-2021, 02:59 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: Sign Williams and Jonnu.

Draft Trevor, Jenkins, Rondale Moore. Offense takes off.

Well you already know that those are my 5 dreams exactly.

That's exactly what I don't want to do, like Dave and reach for a position just because you feel like you need one
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#79

(02-18-2021, 05:57 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 03:18 PM)Upper Wrote: I'm not super high on any of them (not even Horn or Samuel), but there are a lot of them and I think there are like 10 pretty decent ones. Just take the one that falls to 65 after loading up on the lines and hopefully a playmaker and call it a day.


Well you already know that those are my 5 dreams exactly.

That's exactly what I don't want to do, like Dave and reach for a position just because you feel like you need one
Reaching is subjective.

Everyone’s board is different. Someone apparently has Wilson as the top QB.

So while YOU may think it’s a reach. Someone else may have it slotted exactly right.
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#80

(02-18-2021, 07:28 PM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 05:57 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: That's exactly what I don't want to do, like Dave and reach for a position just because you feel like you need one
Reaching is subjective.

Everyone’s board is different. Someone apparently has Wilson as the top QB.

So while YOU may think it’s a reach. Someone else may have it slotted exactly right.

He said there are 10 decent ones so just take one, thats not taking the top player on your board, that is reaching for need.
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