We cut a guy who stepped into the Raiders lineup Monday night and ended up graded higher than any Jags lineman Sunday. Against the Ravens. Many snaps against Calais Campbell. These people have no [BLEEP] clue what they are doing.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I wish we would try

Little-Norwell-Shatley-Linder-Taylor/Cam.  That's getting the best 5 out there

---

Shatley at Center is not a liability and he's decent there, Linder at guard is a huge upgrade over Cann and is just as good at guard as he is a center

Although far from perfect, your adjusted lineup looks much better than what we are throwing out there every week. I'm still not sold on Little, but he's not gonna improve by riding the bench. I believe the best way to judge OT's is by experience. A lot of them will struggle in their first year and that should be expected, especially since Little hasn't played any significant football in 2 years. How is he supposed to shake the rust off if he's not out on the field? It's not like he can be significantly worse than Cam Robinson or Jawaan Taylor. Personally, I'd like to see if Robinson shows any signs of improvement, if he slides over to RT. In any case, this O-Line should look A LOT different in 2022. Why we kept the same starting lineup and retained Warhop is a complete mystery to me. It's probably the single dumbest decision Meyer has made since coming here.

---

1st game

It's not the players' first game. We had the same exact starting O-Line last season and they stunk! Robinson and Taylor were the lowest rated OT tandem in the NFL last year, giving up the most amount of pressures and Cann has never been any better than serviceable. You can use the 1st game excuse for many positions, but not the O-Line. If they were gonna improve, they would've done it by now. They've had plenty of time to gel and it just hasn't happened.

---

You could hire John Madden in his prime and hire the entire Belichek family, and our offensive line would still be Cam Norwell Linder Cann Taylor.

It takes more than 1 draft to turn things around.

I get your point but we have invested in the Oline, thats whats worrying. Cam was a high 2nd round pick (getting paid $13.7m this year), Norwell was a big ticket FA and highest paid player on the roster ($15m this year) Linder is our longest serving player ($8.5m this year), Cann is....well Cann ($6.2m this year) and Taylor is a high 2nd round pick.

Don't get me wrong, watching this Oline is like Groundhog Day, same bad stuff every week but it makes no sense, these arent rookies and UDFA, they should be better and Warhop has had years to improve them and he hasn't.

Finding good O-Linemen is a rare feat in the NFL. If you want a premier OT, you need to take them in the first round. Even the premier OG's like Zach Martin, Quenton Nelson and Brandon Scherff were all taken in round 1. Waiting until round 2 means you are normally getting a guy with potential, but they have some issues that they may or may not be able to overcome with good coaching. In our case, Robinson and Taylor were both known to be slow footed and got out of their stances too late. Warhop certainly hasn't help them correct those issues. 

I know we got burned years ago by drafting Luke Joeckel in round 1, but we gotta get over that. (I never liked him to begin with and thought it was a terrible pick.) If we want this O-Line to improve, we gotta start using 1st round picks on elite O-Linemen and/or breaking the bank to bring in elite O-Linemen in free agency. We spent money on Norwell and although he hasn't performed like we expected, he's not been the problem. I have no issue with him or Linder. Both men have been the only saving grace for the O-Line. Norwell is an UFA at the end of the season and we need to use that money that will be expiring, to help bring in some elite O-Linemen in free agency. We gotta protect Lawrence and open up some running lanes without making boneheaded penalties. 

Priority one needs to be to extend Linder and spend whatever we have to in free agency to bring in top free agents like Brandon Scherff, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, Wyatt Teller, Terron Armstead, Riley Reiff (who I wanted this past offseason) or Duane Brown. If we can't do that, then we need to start trading high round picks to bring in proven starters. If we just keep using O-Linemen taken in the 2nd to 4th rounds as starters, we'll never get better.

---

I get your point but we have invested in the Oline, thats whats worrying. Cam was a high 2nd round pick (getting paid $13.7m this year), Norwell was a big ticket FA and highest paid player on the roster ($15m this year) Linder is our longest serving player ($8.5m this year), Cann is....well Cann ($6.2m this year) and Taylor is a high 2nd round pick.

Don't get me wrong, watching this Oline is like Groundhog Day, same bad stuff every week but it makes no sense, these arent rookies and UDFA, they should be better and Warhop has had years to improve them and he hasn't.

Finding good O-Linemen is a rare feat in the NFL. If you want a premier OT, you need to take them in the first round. Even the premier OG's like Zach Martin, Quenton Nelson and Brandon Scherff were all taken in round 1. Waiting until round 2 means you are normally getting a guy with potential, but they have some issues that they may or may not be able to overcome with good coaching. In our case, Robinson and Taylor were both known to be slow footed and got out of their stances too late. Warhop certainly hasn't help them correct those issues. 

I know we got burned years ago by drafting Luke Joeckel in round 1, but we gotta get over that. (I never liked him to begin with and thought it was a terrible pick.) If we want this O-Line to improve, we gotta start using 1st round picks on elite O-Linemen and/or breaking the bank to bring in elite O-Linemen in free agency. We spent money on Norwell and although he hasn't performed like we expected, he's not been the problem. I have no issue with him or Linder. Both men have been the only saving grace for the O-Line. Norwell is an UFA at the end of the season and we need to use that money that will be expiring, to help bring in some elite O-Linemen in free agency. We gotta protect Lawrence and open up some running lanes without making boneheaded penalties. 

Priority one needs to be to extend Linder and spend whatever we have to in free agency to bring in top free agents like Brandon Scherff, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, Wyatt Teller, Terron Armstead, Riley Reiff (who I wanted this past offseason) or Duane Brown. If we can't do that, then we need to start trading high round picks to bring in proven starters. If we just keep using O-Linemen taken in the 2nd to 4th rounds as starters, we'll never get better.

You make some very good points and i agree with you. The standard of Olinemen has dropped in recent years and i think college teams moving to more spread O's and shotgun formations hasn't helped truly developed Oline players come through like they used to. A lot of times they need to learn the skills like pulling and sustaining a block.

You are absolutely right about 2nd rounders not being the same as the guys that go in the 1st. Theres usually one standout Olinemen and the rest arent bad but not at his level. Part of our problem is picking top 5 and those players seen as a reach when you can draft a 'star' and pick up a solid Olinemen in the 2nd but i do think your right about Joeckel being the reason we see that as a bad move.

Completely agree thats where the cap should be going this next off season. Id even try and use one or two of those 6th rounders to try and get someone early rather than waiting for FA. Be aggressive and get the players we want that fit our system. Lawrence is too valuable to have behind an Oline that isnt getting it done and sadly our current group havent shown that they are those guys.

---

Finding good O-Linemen is a rare feat in the NFL. If you want a premier OT, you need to take them in the first round. Even the premier OG's like Zach Martin, Quenton Nelson and Brandon Scherff were all taken in round 1. Waiting until round 2 means you are normally getting a guy with potential, but they have some issues that they may or may not be able to overcome with good coaching. In our case, Robinson and Taylor were both known to be slow footed and got out of their stances too late. Warhop certainly hasn't help them correct those issues. 

I know we got burned years ago by drafting Luke Joeckel in round 1, but we gotta get over that. (I never liked him to begin with and thought it was a terrible pick.) If we want this O-Line to improve, we gotta start using 1st round picks on elite O-Linemen and/or breaking the bank to bring in elite O-Linemen in free agency. We spent money on Norwell and although he hasn't performed like we expected, he's not been the problem. I have no issue with him or Linder. Both men have been the only saving grace for the O-Line. Norwell is an UFA at the end of the season and we need to use that money that will be expiring, to help bring in some elite O-Linemen in free agency. We gotta protect Lawrence and open up some running lanes without making boneheaded penalties. 

Priority one needs to be to extend Linder and spend whatever we have to in free agency to bring in top free agents like Brandon Scherff, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, Wyatt Teller, Terron Armstead, Riley Reiff (who I wanted this past offseason) or Duane Brown. If we can't do that, then we need to start trading high round picks to bring in proven starters. If we just keep using O-Linemen taken in the 2nd to 4th rounds as starters, we'll never get better.

You make some very good points and i agree with you. The standard of Olinemen has dropped in recent years and i think college teams moving to more spread O's and shotgun formations hasn't helped truly developed Oline players come through like they used to. A lot of times they need to learn the skills like pulling and sustaining a block.

You are absolutely right about 2nd rounders not being the same as the guys that go in the 1st. Theres usually one standout Olinemen and the rest arent bad but not at his level. Part of our problem is picking top 5 and those players seen as a reach when you can draft a 'star' and pick up a solid Olinemen in the 2nd but i do think your right about Joeckel being the reason we see that as a bad move.

Completely agree thats where the cap should be going this next off season. Id even try and use one or two of those 6th rounders to try and get someone early rather than waiting for FA. Be aggressive and get the players we want that fit our system. Lawrence is too valuable to have behind an Oline that isnt getting it done and sadly our current group havent shown that they are those guys.

Exactly, that is the reason it is so important to have a good O-Line coach. Someone that can really teach them NFL schemes. Warhop has never been able to do this effectively. 

Agreed. We need to get out of the mindset of an O-Linemen being a reach, where we pick in the draft. Just look, we could've had Tristan Wirfs in the 2020 draft, but that wasn't a "sexy" pick like getting a CB was. Wirfs is already in the top 100 players in the NFL, as voted by his peers. I remember when we drafted Leonard Fournette at #4 overall in the 2017 draft. A terrible pick! Personally, I really wanted Ryan Ramcyk. He was taken #32 overall and has been a 2 time All-Pro, but again, he wasn't as "sexy" a pick as drafting a skill position like RB. You don't have to draft a skill position player in round 1. You should take the best and safest selection. Both times, Wirfs and Ramcyk represented very good, safe picks, but were passed over in favor of riskier, skill position guys. 

Personally, I've been watching the top OT's that could be available in the 2022 draft and so far, all I've seen is garbage. This appears to be an awful year to take an OT. I'm not optimistic at all about finding OT help via this next draft. I have yet to scout the OG's, so maybe we could find help at that position in the draft, but I'd much rather address the OT position via free agency or a trade. Hopefully, Little can improve enough throughout the season that he can be an upgrade at one of the starting spots, so we only need one OT. I'd stop at nothing to bring in a premier OT though, even if that means trading our first round pick, 2nd round pick and a starting player. Giving Lawrence a dominant protector for his blindside will be crucial to his future success.

---

Check out the link for Warhop's history in the NFL. 

27 seasons as an Offensive Line Coach, 8 different teams.  34% win ratio. Why is he still here?

https://pro-football-history.com/coach/872/george-
warhop-bio

---

Blame this on Meyer and the front office. They saw how bad this team played and decided to bring all these bums back.

---

I can't remember who's contract on the OLine is up come the end of this season can someone remind me? Robinson is playing on the Tag so i expect to see him go. I am sure there may have been two others, the Oline next year could look very different.

---

I can't remember who's contract on the OLine is up come the end of this season can someone remind me? Robinson is playing on the Tag so i expect to see him go. I am sure there may have been two others, the Oline next year could look very different.

Robinson, Norwell, Cann, Shatley and Richardson are all UFA's at the end of this season. Linder will be in the final year of his contract in 2022 and if not extended, he will be owed $10 million in 2022. Taylor will be in the final year of his deal as well in 2022.

---

Lawrence was sacked 1 time. Robinson rushed for 1k yards behind this same oline.

Again, we could have scored a TD on 5 straight possessions and still would have lost the game. We made a backup QB look like an all pro. Our defense is the problem not the oline.

---

I wish we would try

Little-Norwell-Shatley-Linder-Taylor/Cam.  That's getting the best 5 out there

---

Shatley at Center is not a liability and he's decent there, Linder at guard is a huge upgrade over Cann and is just as good at guard as he is a center

Although far from perfect, your adjusted lineup looks much better than what we are throwing out there every week. I'm still not sold on Little, but he's not gonna improve by riding the bench. I believe the best way to judge OT's is by experience. A lot of them will struggle in their first year and that should be expected, especially since Little hasn't played any significant football in 2 years. How is he supposed to shake the rust off if he's not out on the field? It's not like he can be significantly worse than Cam Robinson or Jawaan Taylor. Personally, I'd like to see if Robinson shows any signs of improvement, if he slides over to RT. In any case, this O-Line should look A LOT different in 2022. Why we kept the same starting lineup and retained Warhop is a complete mystery to me. It's probably the single dumbest decision Meyer has made since coming here.

To me, the best time to start Little and get him some experience would have been last week.  Houston doesn't have any elite pass rushers, and given how the off-season went for them, the home crowd there wasn't totally raucous.  I would be reluctant to. Have Little start his first game against a Von Miller, J.J. Watt or Chandler Jones.  Even Cincy is daunting in a short week.  It may not be helped due to injury or exceptionally poor play, but maybe the first Tennessee game will be the first opportunity to see him starting.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Check out the link for Warhop's history in the NFL. 

27 seasons as an Offensive Line Coach, 8 different teams.  34% win ratio. Why is he still here?

https://pro-football-history.com/coach/872/george-
warhop-bio

Egads!

I don't see any great or even that many good OLs among those teams.

I can argue it isn't entirely fair to put the W-L record on him, but I should be able to look up after a long history and find multiple good OLs lover that stretch.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I can't remember who's contract on the OLine is up come the end of this season can someone remind me? Robinson is playing on the Tag so i expect to see him go. I am sure there may have been two others, the Oline next year could look very different.

Robinson, Norwell, Cann, Shatley and Richardson are all UFA's at the end of this season. Linder will be in the final year of his contract in 2022 and if not extended, he will be owed $10 million in 2022. Taylor will be in the final year of his deal as well in 2022.

Thanks Oline. So in short we could be seeing big changes. 

Do you think if we lost all 5, we can replace them with better in one off-season. Maybe a reshuffle with some additions…

(LT) ????? - ????? - Linder - Taylor - Little (RT)

---

Lawrence was sacked 1 time. Robinson rushed for 1k yards behind this same oline.

Again, we could have scored a TD on 5 straight possessions and still would have lost the game. We made a backup QB look like an all pro. Our defense is the problem not the oline.

We were facing possibly the worst D-Line in the NFL with the Texans, so the one sack means nothing. Lawrence was pressured quite a bit and our OT duo lead the NFL in pressures allowed in 2020. If you can't see that this team has a problem with pass protection and has for a long, long time, you don't know football.

---

Check out the link for Warhop's history in the NFL. 

27 seasons as an Offensive Line Coach, 8 different teams.  34% win ratio. Why is he still here?

https://pro-football-history.com/coach/872/george-
warhop-bio

Egads!

I don't see any great or even that many good OLs among those teams.

I can argue it isn't entirely fair to put the W-L record on him, but I should be able to look up after a long history and find multiple good OLs lover that stretch.

The main thing I have against Warhop is his inability to develop any of his players. Normally, in a coaching career that long, you can point to a few mid-late round picks that a coach has developed into good starters. I don't see that with Warhop.

---

Robinson, Norwell, Cann, Shatley and Richardson are all UFA's at the end of this season. Linder will be in the final year of his contract in 2022 and if not extended, he will be owed $10 million in 2022. Taylor will be in the final year of his deal as well in 2022.

Thanks Oline. So in short we could be seeing big changes. 

Do you think if we lost all 5, we can replace them with better in one off-season. Maybe a reshuffle with some additions…

(LT) ????? - ????? - Linder - Taylor - Little (RT)

Little is the LT next year, and Bartch is the LG. We need a new Right Side and I really wish Will Richardson could step up and take the RT from Taylor immediately. Otherwise we're gonna have to spend money or draft a very young right side next year.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Robinson, Norwell, Cann, Shatley and Richardson are all UFA's at the end of this season. Linder will be in the final year of his contract in 2022 and if not extended, he will be owed $10 million in 2022. Taylor will be in the final year of his deal as well in 2022.

Thanks Oline. So in short we could be seeing big changes. 

Do you think if we lost all 5, we can replace them with better in one off-season. Maybe a reshuffle with some additions…

(LT) ????? - ????? - Linder - Taylor - Little (RT)

It's hard to tell. I'd really like to extend Linder and find a LT via free agency or a trade. This 2022 OT draft class is really, really bad. I'd also try and add a decent OG via free agency and then add another OG via the draft (I have yet to examine the OG class.) Personally, I would try and cut bait with Taylor. He's terrible. Trade him for whatever we can get. I would then bring in as many low round and UDFA OT's as we can handle and hopefully, we could find a decent swing tackle. If we added a really good LT and a decent LG via free agency/trade, extended Linder at Center and had a new OG via the draft or perhaps playing Bartch there with Little at RT, I could see some improvement. It would take time for a new O-Line to gel together, but Kansas City totally re-vamped their O-Line and they looked pretty good in their first game.

---

Thanks Oline. So in short we could be seeing big changes. 

Do you think if we lost all 5, we can replace them with better in one off-season. Maybe a reshuffle with some additions…

(LT) ????? - ????? - Linder - Taylor - Little (RT)

Little is the LT next year, and Bartch is the LG. We need a new Right Side and I really wish Will Richardson could step up and take the RT from Taylor immediately. Otherwise we're gonna have to spend money or draft a very young right side next year.

So far, Little hasn't even been able to beat out either of our pathetic starting OT's. I'm not counting on him to be the LT. If he could just be an upgrade over Taylor, I'd be satisfied. 

Spending a lot of money in free agency to fix this O-Line is a given. It has to happen. We have too many starters entering free agency and this is a terrible 2022 OT draft class. I don't care if we gotta spend huge money, we gotta protect our franchise QB.

---

Little is the LT next year, and Bartch is the LG. We need a new Right Side and I really wish Will Richardson could step up and take the RT from Taylor immediately. Otherwise we're gonna have to spend money or draft a very young right side next year.

So far, Little hasn't even been able to beat out either of our pathetic starting OT's. I'm not counting on him to be the LT. If he could just be an upgrade over Taylor, I'd be satisfied. 

Spending a lot of money in free agency to fix this O-Line is a given. It has to happen. We have too many starters entering free agency and this is a terrible 2022 OT draft class. I don't care if we gotta spend huge money, we gotta protect our franchise QB.

 He's a rookie playing for a team thought Carlos Hyde should have twice as many carries as James Robinson. He'll be the left tackle next year if not sooner.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Justis warned us when we hired him. We knew it was basically going to be awful from the get go.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dw-z2tYU8AAa...name=large

---