I donated the Yamaha equipment I bought back in the 80's to Goodwill a couple of years ago. Sound systems are so much more efficient and better sounding with component speakers. The old formula of  big power pushing big inefficient speakers is long gone. The craftsmanship of some of those old tuners and amplifiers is incredible, though.

The Denon 5.1 AV receiver I'm using now kicking out 75W per channel driving five relatively small speakers with a subwoofer sounds leagues better than the old Yamaha 400W amp driving a pair of JBL L80T floor speakers and some small rears.

Last year I bought a couple of Bose 301s to use as my front speakers because I really like their sound dispersion. They replaced a set of Klipsch bookshelf speakers which were ridiculously directional.  It's a good thing I bought the 301s when I did because Bose stopped making them this year. They don't make anything that large anymore, which were considered quaint little speakers back in the day of the 901s and 601s. It's all about efficiency and component systems now.

In the speaker nerd camp, Bose are considered average with an expensive nameplate (No highs, no lows, must be Bose).  But during my cheap thrift store speaker buying experience, I picked up a couple of 301s.  They're fantastic.  I gave them to my little brother one Christmas, knowing his wife would let him put them up, since name brands are a big thing with her.  He set them up as surrounds, and I am now convinced there's not a bookshelf speaker pair under a grand that can beat them. 

I've got a component setup downstairs and an old school 70s setup upstairs.  I love them both, but the upstairs setup is just super clear.  It's a 50 wpc Technics with some Radio Shack Optimus speakers with 15" woofers that weigh about 50 pounds each.  I've never turned the volume past halfway.  And as you mentioned, the craftsmanship of the older receivers/amps is nothing short of beautiful.

I'm currently at 8 receivers, 6 subwoofers, and about a dozen pairs of speakers.  I've run out of family to give them all to, but I've also got good enough stuff to stop acquiring equipment indiscriminately.

Their dinky little 201s were incredible too. I have each of the 301s set in a corner to get the reflected sound and they fill the room. The rest of my speakers (center, powered subwoofer and rear speakers) are Polk. I would be happier if the AVR had a little more power. While I've been preaching efficiency, it seems the AVR struggles just a bit. There's plenty of volume if I'm listening to music, but the volume has to go over half way to start really feeling it. 

I used a Radio Shack Optimus subwoofer for over 20 years! The powered subwoofer I have now replaced the Optimus only last year. While it could be boomy at times, it was a faithful old speaker I bought new in the late 90s for about $85. A guy I worked with moonlighted at Radio Shack and told me about them. It was the single best value for audio equipment I ever made. I still have it boxed away somewhere.

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I donated the Yamaha equipment I bought back in the 80's to Goodwill a couple of years ago. Sound systems are so much more efficient and better sounding with component speakers. The old formula of  big power pushing big inefficient speakers is long gone. The craftsmanship of some of those old tuners and amplifiers is incredible, though.

The Denon 5.1 AV receiver I'm using now kicking out 75W per channel driving five relatively small speakers with a subwoofer sounds leagues better than the old Yamaha 400W amp driving a pair of JBL L80T floor speakers and some small rears.

Last year I bought a couple of Bose 301s to use as my front speakers because I really like their sound dispersion. They replaced a set of Klipsch bookshelf speakers which were ridiculously directional.  It's a good thing I bought the 301s when I did because Bose stopped making them this year. They don't make anything that large anymore, which were considered quaint little speakers back in the day of the 901s and 601s. It's all about efficiency and component systems now.

In the speaker nerd camp, Bose are considered average with an expensive nameplate (No highs, no lows, must be Bose).  But during my cheap thrift store speaker buying experience, I picked up a couple of 301s.  They're fantastic.  I gave them to my little brother one Christmas, knowing his wife would let him put them up, since name brands are a big thing with her.  He set them up as surrounds, and I am now convinced there's not a bookshelf speaker pair under a grand that can beat them. 

I've got a component setup downstairs and an old school 70s setup upstairs.  I love them both, but the upstairs setup is just super clear.  It's a 50 wpc Technics with some Radio Shack Optimus speakers with 15" woofers that weigh about 50 pounds each.  I've never turned the volume past halfway.  And as you mentioned, the craftsmanship of the older receivers/amps is nothing short of beautiful.

I'm currently at 8 receivers, 6 subwoofers, and about a dozen pairs of speakers.  I've run out of family to give them all to, but I've also got good enough stuff to stop acquiring equipment indiscriminately.

In my opinion, anyone who buys a subwoofer is not really into accurate sound.  It's artificially pumped up bass that has nothing to do with the original intent or original sound of the music.  What used to be clean bass notes that you could actually follow musically, it's a thump thump or a boom boom and you can't really hear the notes.  It's just pounding like a giant bass drum.  

Am I wrong?

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In the speaker nerd camp, Bose are considered average with an expensive nameplate (No highs, no lows, must be Bose).  But during my cheap thrift store speaker buying experience, I picked up a couple of 301s.  They're fantastic.  I gave them to my little brother one Christmas, knowing his wife would let him put them up, since name brands are a big thing with her.  He set them up as surrounds, and I am now convinced there's not a bookshelf speaker pair under a grand that can beat them. 

I've got a component setup downstairs and an old school 70s setup upstairs.  I love them both, but the upstairs setup is just super clear.  It's a 50 wpc Technics with some Radio Shack Optimus speakers with 15" woofers that weigh about 50 pounds each.  I've never turned the volume past halfway.  And as you mentioned, the craftsmanship of the older receivers/amps is nothing short of beautiful.

I'm currently at 8 receivers, 6 subwoofers, and about a dozen pairs of speakers.  I've run out of family to give them all to, but I've also got good enough stuff to stop acquiring equipment indiscriminately.

In my opinion, anyone who buys a subwoofer is not really into accurate sound.  It's artificially pumped up bass that has nothing to do with the original intent or original sound of the music.  What used to be clean bass notes that you could actually follow musically, it's a thump thump or a boom boom and you can't really hear the notes.  It's just pounding like a giant bass drum.  

Am I wrong?

It depends on how you use it. Subwoofers are tunable in their output and crossover points. If not tuned correctly, or to your tastes, they can certainly become overwhelming. 
IMHO, they’re absolutely necessary for a component system. The subwoofer is what fills out the sound and gives it resonance and punch. Even classical music benefits greatly from a properly tuned subwoofer. 
Keep in mind I’m referring to a powered subwoofer which, I believe, is better than in-line subwoofers. They are much more tunable and more responsive. You’re missing out on a whole realistic dimension of your music without a subwoofer.

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In the speaker nerd camp, Bose are considered average with an expensive nameplate (No highs, no lows, must be Bose).  But during my cheap thrift store speaker buying experience, I picked up a couple of 301s.  They're fantastic.  I gave them to my little brother one Christmas, knowing his wife would let him put them up, since name brands are a big thing with her.  He set them up as surrounds, and I am now convinced there's not a bookshelf speaker pair under a grand that can beat them. 

I've got a component setup downstairs and an old school 70s setup upstairs.  I love them both, but the upstairs setup is just super clear.  It's a 50 wpc Technics with some Radio Shack Optimus speakers with 15" woofers that weigh about 50 pounds each.  I've never turned the volume past halfway.  And as you mentioned, the craftsmanship of the older receivers/amps is nothing short of beautiful.

I'm currently at 8 receivers, 6 subwoofers, and about a dozen pairs of speakers.  I've run out of family to give them all to, but I've also got good enough stuff to stop acquiring equipment indiscriminately.

In my opinion, anyone who buys a subwoofer is not really into accurate sound.  It's artificially pumped up bass that has nothing to do with the original intent or original sound of the music.  What used to be clean bass notes that you could actually follow musically, it's a thump thump or a boom boom and you can't really hear the notes.  It's just pounding like a giant bass drum.  

Am I wrong?

It depends on how you want to use the subwoofer.  You can use it to accentuate the tympani in an orchestra while still being able to hear the bassoon, or you can use it as a device in a boom car to tick off everyone stuck next to you at the traffic light.

On my component system, I cross over the sub at 80 hertz, which allows the main speakers to work really well in their frequency range.  The sub allows the speakers to sound clearer, because they aren't being fed frequencies below 80 hertz.  When I take out the sub, all bass sounds less clear on the mains.  There's a level knob on active (powered) subs, which should be turned to a volume just before it starts to sound boomy.

So you should be able to hear that bass drum really well, but it shouldn't overpower the rest of the music.  It's a way to get big speaker sound without taking up as much space or requiring the amp to move big woofers.  They also make home theater sound fantastic, because there's a lot of low frequency in your average action flick that will be separated out from the dialogue.

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What kind of audio system do you have, Marty? If I may ask.

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Guns and a pretty sizable sports card collection, baseball and football. I've been collecting sports cards for like 40 years. Last count, I had somewhere around 12,000.

I have a pretty sizeable card collection. Started when I was a kid with a paper route, somewhere around 1986 or so. By about 92 or 93, though, collecting fever was rampant and all the value in collecting disappeared. No way was I going to pay $5 a pack for cards that were going to end up valued at $4.50 total.

I can remember some of the steals I got, though. 1984 Topps FB (Elway/Marino rookies) full set for $10, 1989 Score (Barry, Aikman, etc.) full set $12.
I think I found a 1958 Bart Starr (2nd year) for $15 and have nearly every one of his cards.

I spent so many days flipping through binders full of cards. Good times.

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What kind of audio system do you have, Marty? If I may ask.

I have a Denon DRA-685 amp and Bose 301 bookshelf speakers.  I use a classical music streaming service called Idagio.  

I wouldn't call myself an audiophile.   I don't know enough, and I don't spend enough, to call myself that.   What I want in an audio system is accuracy.  I want the music to sound like it would sound live.  I don't want added bass or added treble.   I think these Bose 301 speakers are pretty good, especially since they are sitting less than 8 feet away.  

Now, I admit, I play a different kind of music than probably anyone else on this message board: classical.  So maybe that colors my bias against subwoofers.  I bought a new car about 2 years ago, and I splurged on the "upgraded" audio.  But when I played music on it, I figured out that when they said "upgraded" it really meant adding a SUBwoofer.  What were bass notes became a toneless thumping.   What's the point of that?   

I have nothing against woofers.  It's SUBwoofers that I regard as an abomination when it comes to an audio system.  I don't think any real audiophile would add a subwoofer to his audio system, because there's no musical instrument that sounds like a subwoofer.  Except maybe Purdue University's giant bass drum.  

But- I know I sound like an old curmudgeon, and I admit, I could be wrong.  That's just my opinion.

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If you want accurate sound, go to a music shop and buy some studio speakers. 

Better imo, and probably cheaper as well.

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What kind of audio system do you have, Marty? If I may ask.

I have a Denon DRA-685 amp and Bose 301 bookshelf speakers.  I use a classical music streaming service called Idagio.  

I wouldn't call myself an audiophile.   I don't know enough, and I don't spend enough, to call myself that.   What I want in an audio system is accuracy.  I want the music to sound like it would sound live.  I don't want added bass or added treble.   I think these Bose 301 speakers are pretty good, especially since they are sitting less than 8 feet away.  

Now, I admit, I play a different kind of music than probably anyone else on this message board: classical.  So maybe that colors my bias against subwoofers.  I bought a new car about 2 years ago, and I splurged on the "upgraded" audio.  But when I played music on it, I figured out that when they said "upgraded" it really meant adding a SUBwoofer.  What were bass notes became a toneless thumping.   What's the point of that?   

I have nothing against woofers.  It's SUBwoofers that I regard as an abomination when it comes to an audio system.  I don't think any real audiophile would add a subwoofer to his audio system, because there's no musical instrument that sounds like a subwoofer.  Except maybe Purdue University's giant bass drum.  

But- I know I sound like an old curmudgeon, and I admit, I could be wrong.  That's just my opinion.

You have to tune the subwoofer in your car. Adjust the output level and the crossover frequency and I think you’ll be happy with it. If you’re not sure how to do it, the Google machine is full of tips explaining what it is and how to adjust it. I even have a particular Dwight Yoakam song I play to tune my subwoofer.

Your home amp is old enough that it doesn’t have a subwoofer output. I’m sure it sounds good for your use and if you’re happy with how it sounds now, there’s no sense in getting something new unless you’re wanting to upgrade. I’m sure a set of quality rear speakers would improve your experience though.

Does the music streaming service you’re using offer high resolution streaming? It makes a world of difference. I use Amazon’s HD music streaming service and I love it. There’s a big difference between hi-res and standard services, IMO.

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I have a Denon DRA-685 amp and Bose 301 bookshelf speakers.  I use a classical music streaming service called Idagio.  

I wouldn't call myself an audiophile.   I don't know enough, and I don't spend enough, to call myself that.   What I want in an audio system is accuracy.  I want the music to sound like it would sound live.  I don't want added bass or added treble.   I think these Bose 301 speakers are pretty good, especially since they are sitting less than 8 feet away.  

Now, I admit, I play a different kind of music than probably anyone else on this message board: classical.  So maybe that colors my bias against subwoofers.  I bought a new car about 2 years ago, and I splurged on the "upgraded" audio.  But when I played music on it, I figured out that when they said "upgraded" it really meant adding a SUBwoofer.  What were bass notes became a toneless thumping.   What's the point of that?   

I have nothing against woofers.  It's SUBwoofers that I regard as an abomination when it comes to an audio system.  I don't think any real audiophile would add a subwoofer to his audio system, because there's no musical instrument that sounds like a subwoofer.  Except maybe Purdue University's giant bass drum.  

But- I know I sound like an old curmudgeon, and I admit, I could be wrong.  That's just my opinion.

You have to tune the subwoofer in your car. Adjust the output level and the crossover frequency and I think you’ll be happy with it. If you’re not sure how to do it, the Google machine is full of tips explaining what it is and how to adjust it. I even have a particular Dwight Yoakam song I play to tune my subwoofer.

Your home amp is old enough that it doesn’t have a subwoofer output. I’m sure it sounds good for your use and if you’re happy with how it sounds now, there’s no sense in getting something new unless you’re wanting to upgrade. I’m sure a set of quality rear speakers would improve your experience though.

Does the music streaming service you’re using offer high resolution streaming? It makes a world of difference. I use Amazon’s HD music streaming service and I love it. There’s a big difference between hi-res and standard services, IMO.

Yes, the music streaming service does have "lossless" streaming.  

I don't think I can adjust the crossover frequency of the subwoofer in my car.  It's not an aftermarket subwoofer.   The audio system was installed in Finland when they built the car.  It does have an equalizer.   Just treble-midrange-bass.  And you can move the audio output forward and backward in the car.  If I turn down the bass enough to get rid of the booming sound, the bass notes disappear.  It really pisses me off, the way the whole thing is designed.   I'll never buy another car without checking what they mean by "upgraded" audio system.   As far as I'm concerned, it's a nice car with a [BLEEP] audio system.   I've had plenty of less expensive cars with much better audio systems.

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If you want accurate sound, go to a music shop and buy some studio speakers. 

Better imo, and probably cheaper as well.

Thanks for the advice.  I'll check that out.

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Or check out Crutchfield. Good prices and outstanding customer service. This is where I’ve bought all the audio equipment for my house and truck.

https://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/s...akers.html

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Or check out Crutchfield. Good prices and outstanding customer service. This is where I’ve bought all the audio equipment for my house and truck.

https://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/s...akers.html

Nice. Those Yamaha are very accurate for the money.

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So Marty is not “all about da bass bout the bass”.  

So much fun you’re not allowing yourself to have, my friend.

You may wanna try the Superbass?

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Marty, if you ever consider upgrading your audio system I would highly recommend calling an advisor from Crutchfield. I don’t know if you’re familiar with them but they’re renown for their customer service and support, to which I can personally attest. Plus, anything you buy from them gets free lifetime support. They have advisors on staff who can tell you what you need based on your preferences, and they do not automatically recommend the most expensive equipment.

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It's weird how threads about collectibles and hobbies always turn to the audiophiles.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I do have a few things that you could call collectibles.  For example, I have some documents that date back to the 1850s and 1860s, that have come down through my family.  One of them is the loyalty oath my great great grandfather had to sign at the end of the Civil War.  He had been in the Confederate army. 

I, __________ of the County of _____________ State of Georgia, do solemnly swear and affirm, in the presence of Almighty God, that I will henceforth faithfully support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Union of the States thereunder; and that I will, in like manner, abide by and faithfully support all laws and proclamations which have been made during the existing Rebellion with reference to the emancipation of slaves, so help me God. 

It's signed, dated August 1865, with his description and the signature of a witness. 

I guess basically it says, "I promise I won't rebel any more, and I'm not going to own any more slaves."

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I collect debt.

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I collect...never mind.

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I collect debt.

I have some if you would like to expand your collection. Willing to let it go for cheap, too!

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