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Thibodeaux & Hutchinson

#61
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2021, 06:38 PM by flgatorsandjags. Edited 1 time in total.)

(10-22-2021, 01:50 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 11:49 AM)RicoTx Wrote: You don't think that maybe his development might have been hindered by being injured and then on the covid list until 10/5?

I think if you are a 1-15 team and you spend a 2nd round pick on a player of any position, the expectation is for that player to be an immediate starter. Especially when that position has and continues to be very weak (Taylor at RT.)
I honestly don't give a [BLEEP] if he is an immediate starter as long as he can be a good LT for us next year and moving foward. that's why we tagged Cam to hold it down this year I I think this was the plan the whole time. Have Little take over for Cam next year
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#62

(10-22-2021, 01:50 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 11:49 AM)RicoTx Wrote: You don't think that maybe his development might have been hindered by being injured and then on the covid list until 10/5?

I think if you are a 1-15 team and you spend a 2nd round pick on a player of any position, the expectation is for that player to be an immediate starter. Especially when that position has and continues to be very weak (Taylor at RT.)

It's not my fault you have unrealistic expectations.
[Image: IMG-1452.jpg]
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#63

(10-22-2021, 06:59 PM)RicoTx Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 01:50 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: I think if you are a 1-15 team and you spend a 2nd round pick on a player of any position, the expectation is for that player to be an immediate starter. Especially when that position has and continues to be very weak (Taylor at RT.)

It's not my fault you have unrealistic expectations.

We were 1-15 last year. Expecting a 2nd round pick to be a starter at a position of need is far from unrealistic.
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#64

(10-22-2021, 07:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 06:59 PM)RicoTx Wrote: It's not my fault you have unrealistic expectations.

We were 1-15 last year. Expecting a 2nd round pick to be a starter at a position of need is far from unrealistic.

I'd say so far left tackle has been one of the positions we've gotten reasonably satisfactory play from. Sure he could be upgraded, but there's no guarantee a second round pick will be a day one starter at that position.

That being said the position is valuable enough that if Little can become a good player down the road then it was worth taking him.

The real disappointment of the draft is Campbell. He was taken 33rd overall, at a place where first round level players were still available, and he's been godawful. If any move puts Meyer's job in jeopardy it should be that one.
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#65

(10-23-2021, 08:47 AM)SeldomRite Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 07:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: We were 1-15 last year. Expecting a 2nd round pick to be a starter at a position of need is far from unrealistic.

I'd say so far left tackle has been one of the positions we've gotten reasonably satisfactory play from. Sure he could be upgraded, but there's no guarantee a second round pick will be a day one starter at that position.

That being said the position is valuable enough that if Little can become a good player down the road then it was worth taking him.

The real disappointment of the draft is Campbell. He was taken 33rd overall, at a place where first round level players were still available, and he's been godawful. If any move puts Meyer's job in jeopardy it should be that one.

LT is not really the issue. The issue is Little not being able to crack the starting lineup after being selected so high. Whether or not he plays at RT or LT, he should have been starting by now. Jawaan Taylor is terrible. He is by far the weakest link on the O-Line. If Little can't play RT, then he should be put at LT right now and Cam Robinson should be starting at RT. Between Little and Robinson, one of them should be an upgrade over Taylor. There is no way one of them shouldn't be able to move to RT and upgrade this O-Line. If Little truly was worth where he was chosen, he should be starting somewhere on this O-Line, especially with all the injuries we have suffered lately. We need to start bringing in O-Line who are more diverse, so that they have the ability to play more than one position at a high level. When injuries hit, you need to be able to move your "chess pieces" around to fill the holes.
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#66

Coming from a guy with O-line in his name, you'd think you would know that it's not as easy as having people shift around in different spots on the offensive line and play at a high level like its a Madden game. Taking things into account long term, those instances generally speaking don't end up occurring regularly.

There are significant intricacies involved at each level of the offensive line, less so between LG-C-RG, even if there are some characteristics/tendencies that translate to multiple positions along the front line. Tackle to tackle though is a larger hurdle to overcome, and while there are some players who have made that switch, its not as easy as it seems.

Here's a quote from CBSSports with Penei Sewell who struggled initially being switched to RT early on, before reverting back to LT after Decker's injury where Penei is now doing well. "It is not that easy," Sewell said Thursday, per the Detroit Free Press. "Man, it's a whole different feel. Again, it's like, let's say I'm right-handed so I've been writing right-handed my whole life, and then one day you're just asked to write your full name left-handed at full speed, the same speed that you write with your right hand. So yeah, it's a little bit of an adjustment."

Shifting guys around like turnstiles or musical chairs would do nothing but create more disjointedness on the line, especially when players like Cam Robinson have only played LT their whole career and then switching him over to the right side and expecting him to excel in that position. I don't disagree that Jawaan Taylor has been the weakest link on this line but maybe he's better at RT than if Robinson shifted over or transitioning Walker Little to a RT. At the end of the day, nobody knows the reasoning behind the player selections except the coaches. But if Cam Robinson is not in our future plans, then I don't want Little to be playing RT this year if Robinson is gone the following year, unless he's forced to if an injury occurs to Taylor.

The most important thing I want is for Trevor's blindside to be at it's highest level of play if I had to choose a segment of the offensive line over another. And right now, the O-line unit is top 5 in the league where some of it is due to their play and other portions are because of how good Trevor relieves them.

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#67

(10-23-2021, 08:47 AM)SeldomRite Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 07:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: We were 1-15 last year. Expecting a 2nd round pick to be a starter at a position of need is far from unrealistic.

I'd say so far left tackle has been one of the positions we've gotten reasonably satisfactory play from. Sure he could be upgraded, but there's no guarantee a second round pick will be a day one starter at that position.

That being said the position is valuable enough that if Little can become a good player down the road then it was worth taking him.

The real disappointment of the draft is Campbell. He was taken 33rd overall, at a place where first round level players were still available, and he's been godawful. If any move puts Meyer's job in jeopardy it should be that one.

Agree with pretty much every you just said
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#68

Sewell struggled with the transition because he was also trying to knock off the rust from sitting out an entire season also. If he would have been forced to stick with it he would have been very good at RT too in time.
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#69

(10-24-2021, 02:50 PM)enigma Wrote: Coming from a guy with O-line in his name, you'd think you would know that it's not as easy as having people shift around in different spots on the offensive line and play at a high level like its a Madden game. Taking things into account long term, those instances generally speaking don't end up occurring regularly.

There are significant intricacies involved at each level of the offensive line, less so between LG-C-RG, even if there are some characteristics/tendencies that translate to multiple positions along the front line. Tackle to tackle though is a larger hurdle to overcome, and while there are some players who have made that switch, its not as easy as it seems.

Here's a quote from CBSSports with Penei Sewell who struggled initially being switched to RT early on, before reverting back to LT after Decker's injury where Penei is now doing well. "It is not that easy," Sewell said Thursday, per the Detroit Free Press. "Man, it's a whole different feel. Again, it's like, let's say I'm right-handed so I've been writing right-handed my whole life, and then one day you're just asked to write your full name left-handed at full speed, the same speed that you write with your right hand. So yeah, it's a little bit of an adjustment."

Shifting guys around like turnstiles or musical chairs would do nothing but create more disjointedness on the line, especially when players like Cam Robinson have only played LT their whole career and then switching him over to the right side and expecting him to excel in that position. I don't disagree that Jawaan Taylor has been the weakest link on this line but maybe he's better at RT than if Robinson shifted over or transitioning Walker Little to a RT. At the end of the day, nobody knows the reasoning behind the player selections except the coaches. But if Cam Robinson is not in our future plans, then I don't want Little to be playing RT this year if Robinson is gone the following year, unless he's forced to if an injury occurs to Taylor.

The most important thing I want is for Trevor's blindside to be at it's highest level of play if I had to choose a segment of the offensive line over another. And right now, the O-line unit is top 5 in the league where some of it is due to their play and other portions are because of how good Trevor relieves them.

Yes it's difficult to switch sides for a lot being you have to do pretty much everything the opposite as multiple lineman have talked about it.  I remember o-line before stating that he didn't want to draft a guy and have him switch sides because the difficulty of it but now he wants our tackles to do it lol
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#70

(10-24-2021, 04:19 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2021, 02:50 PM)enigma Wrote: Coming from a guy with O-line in his name, you'd think you would know that it's not as easy as having people shift around in different spots on the offensive line and play at a high level like its a Madden game. Taking things into account long term, those instances generally speaking don't end up occurring regularly.

There are significant intricacies involved at each level of the offensive line, less so between LG-C-RG, even if there are some characteristics/tendencies that translate to multiple positions along the front line. Tackle to tackle though is a larger hurdle to overcome, and while there are some players who have made that switch, its not as easy as it seems.

Here's a quote from CBSSports with Penei Sewell who struggled initially being switched to RT early on, before reverting back to LT after Decker's injury where Penei is now doing well. "It is not that easy," Sewell said Thursday, per the Detroit Free Press. "Man, it's a whole different feel. Again, it's like, let's say I'm right-handed so I've been writing right-handed my whole life, and then one day you're just asked to write your full name left-handed at full speed, the same speed that you write with your right hand. So yeah, it's a little bit of an adjustment."

Shifting guys around like turnstiles or musical chairs would do nothing but create more disjointedness on the line, especially when players like Cam Robinson have only played LT their whole career and then switching him over to the right side and expecting him to excel in that position. I don't disagree that Jawaan Taylor has been the weakest link on this line but maybe he's better at RT than if Robinson shifted over or transitioning Walker Little to a RT. At the end of the day, nobody knows the reasoning behind the player selections except the coaches. But if Cam Robinson is not in our future plans, then I don't want Little to be playing RT this year if Robinson is gone the following year, unless he's forced to if an injury occurs to Taylor.

The most important thing I want is for Trevor's blindside to be at it's highest level of play if I had to choose a segment of the offensive line over another. And right now, the O-line unit is top 5 in the league where some of it is due to their play and other portions are because of how good Trevor relieves them.

Yes it's difficult to switch sides for a lot being you have to do pretty much everything the opposite as multiple lineman have talked about it.  I remember o-line before stating that he didn't want to draft a guy and have him switch sides because the difficulty of it but now he wants our tackles to do it lol

I did say that and I have since changed my mind. I was wrong. For years we have suffered major injuries on the O-Line and we lacked the versatility to plug in the best backups to fill the voids, because they were designated as a RT only, a LT only or a OG only and so on. I see other teams plugging holes with their best players, because they give their backups reps all along the O-Line to get them used to playing different positions and creating versatility. They can move their players around on the O-Line and make the best possible lineup when injuries occur. That's what I want for us.
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#71
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2021, 06:17 PM by flgatorsandjags. Edited 1 time in total.)

(10-24-2021, 04:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(10-24-2021, 04:19 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Yes it's difficult to switch sides for a lot being you have to do pretty much everything the opposite as multiple lineman have talked about it.  I remember o-line before stating that he didn't want to draft a guy and have him switch sides because the difficulty of it but now he wants our tackles to do it lol

I did say that and I have since changed my mind. I was wrong. For years we have suffered major injuries on the O-Line and we lacked the versatility to plug in the best backups to fill the voids, because they were designated as a RT only, a LT only or a OG only and so on. I see other teams plugging holes with their best players, because they give their backups reps all along the O-Line to get them used to playing different positions and creating versatility. They can move their players around on the O-Line and make the best possible lineup when injuries occur. That's what I want for us.
Oh ok lol. What were these best backups you speak of that we had that didn't have the versatility to play and fill in the void?
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#72

Countless players have switched sides in their careers, literally every team has a swing tackle that can play either one at a moments notice. It's not hard, it just takes some time. Sewell never got that time, and he was knocking off rust from skipping the covid season to begin with. If Decker had never gotten hurt Sewell would have taken some lumps at RT at first, but he would wind up being just as good there as he would be at LT I have no doubt.
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#73

A couple of you are missing the point because we haven't had any injuries to either tackle position... Teams have "swing" tackles because they are FORCED to do so.

Our injuries have been sustained in the interior O-line and the guys who have filled in have done a serviceable job where we are still top 5 in the league, both by their own merits as an O-line unit and Trevor at the helm.

And back to the point about Little, I'm not plugging him in at OG or C where we sustained injuries because our backups have been taking reps at those positions for YEARS and developed that skillset needed along the interior. As for tackles, refer back to my post above.

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#74

(10-24-2021, 07:40 PM)Upper Wrote: Countless players have switched sides in their careers, literally every team has a swing tackle that can play either one at a moments notice. It's not hard, it just takes some time. Sewell never got that time, and he was knocking off rust from skipping the covid season to begin with. If Decker had never gotten hurt Sewell would have taken some lumps at RT at first, but he would wind up being just as good there as he would be at LT I have no doubt.

We have a swing tackle as well, Richardson.  Every team might have one but it doesn't mean he's equally as good on both sides.  Lol, some dude on Jags message board says it's not hard to switch sides when multiple lineman have said the opposite over the years.  I think I'll go with what the guys say that play the positions over the years lol.  You saying Sewell would of been just fine there is all just speculation on your part and I'll take his word for it as the others as well
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#75

Far more lineman have said it isn't hard but it does take time than the opposite. Even guys like Sewell if you look at the context are saying just that.
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#76

(10-24-2021, 08:42 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2021, 07:40 PM)Upper Wrote: Countless players have switched sides in their careers, literally every team has a swing tackle that can play either one at a moments notice. It's not hard, it just takes some time. Sewell never got that time, and he was knocking off rust from skipping the covid season to begin with. If Decker had never gotten hurt Sewell would have taken some lumps at RT at first, but he would wind up being just as good there as he would be at LT I have no doubt.

We have a swing tackle as well, Richardson.  Every team might have one but it doesn't mean he's equally as good on both sides.  Lol, some dude on Jags message board says it's not hard to switch sides when multiple lineman have said the opposite over the years.  I think I'll go with what the guys say that play the positions over the years lol.  You saying Sewell would of been just fine there is all just speculation on your part and I'll take his word for it as the others as well

Richardson is a good example. He was a RT only in college and we tried to make him a swing Tackle. He is a subpar NFL RT and when he is forced to play LT, he's an outright liability. We need to bring in O-Linemen with way more versatility. As far as I'm concerned, if you're not an elite OT and you don't have the ability to play multiple positions on the O-Line, you're useless.
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#77

(10-22-2021, 07:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(10-22-2021, 06:59 PM)RicoTx Wrote: It's not my fault you have unrealistic expectations.

We were 1-15 last year. Expecting a 2nd round pick to be a starter at a position of need is far from unrealistic.

cripes, I'd be happy with "contributor" at this stage.

you don't spend a twoth rounder on a jar on the shelf, unless it's someone who otherwise would have been a first rounder if not for a late season injury (like M. Jack). If this is the LT of our future, I kinda want to get him on the field before handing him the torch.
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#78

We're down to pick #5 now, probably should start jumping on the Hutchinson train.
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#79
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2021, 11:14 AM by DTWD4∞. Edited 1 time in total.)

(10-24-2021, 08:42 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(10-24-2021, 07:40 PM)Upper Wrote: Countless players have switched sides in their careers, literally every team has a swing tackle that can play either one at a moments notice. It's not hard, it just takes some time. Sewell never got that time, and he was knocking off rust from skipping the covid season to begin with. If Decker had never gotten hurt Sewell would have taken some lumps at RT at first, but he would wind up being just as good there as he would be at LT I have no doubt.

We have a swing tackle as well, Richardson.  Every team might have one but it doesn't mean he's equally as good on both sides.  Lol, some dude on Jags message board says it's not hard to switch sides when multiple lineman have said the opposite over the years.  I think I'll go with what the guys say that play the positions over the years lol.  You saying Sewell would of been just fine there is all just speculation on your part and I'll take his word for it as the others as well

Richardson is now, due to injury, the swing Guard and Little is the swing tackle. If Cann comes back and Bartch as well, then Richardson goes back to swing tackle.  That said 3 positions on the o-line are liable to walk in the offseason LT and both guards. LT can be tagged once more but the two guards are gonna want money and I am not confident this FO can or will pay them but I certainly don't want the bank broken to retain these guys. Add to that end the best ability a player has is availability and Linder is not our best hope for Center anymore. Jawaan is, well, Jawaan. That is potentially all five o-line positions that need to be replaced. Will that happen? Not likely, but then again, we ARE the Jaguars LOL. That then brings us to Warhop. I think he needs replacing too. While the line has performed better than we expected, except RT, Injuries are piling up and we are very thin now along the line and I fear for the health of our QB. To me this is looming as the biggest need for the draft and FA next year.
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#80

(10-25-2021, 09:09 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(10-24-2021, 08:42 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: We have a swing tackle as well, Richardson.  Every team might have one but it doesn't mean he's equally as good on both sides.  Lol, some dude on Jags message board says it's not hard to switch sides when multiple lineman have said the opposite over the years.  I think I'll go with what the guys say that play the positions over the years lol.  You saying Sewell would of been just fine there is all just speculation on your part and I'll take his word for it as the others as well

Richardson is a good example. He was a RT only in college and we tried to make him a swing Tackle. He is a subpar NFL RT and when he is forced to play LT, he's an outright liability. We need to bring in O-Linemen with way more versatility. As far as I'm concerned, if you're not an elite OT and you don't have the ability to play multiple positions on the O-Line, you're useless.

Lol, do you know how many elite OTs there are?  Not many, I guess 90% of lineman are useless lol.  I like what I have seen out of Richardson this year, he's looked good at guard and when I have seen him in.  Offensive line issues are a league wide problem.
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