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Christian Kirk, Jags newest WR

#41

(03-14-2022, 09:09 PM)Eric1 Wrote:
(03-14-2022, 09:05 PM)Upper Wrote: But, it's actually not that much better.

It's a whole hell of a lot better than Phillip Dorsett and Carlos Hyde.

True enough.
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#42

(03-14-2022, 10:49 PM)Mandeezee Wrote: You guys thinking they over spent on players who aren't markee don't think they as much if not more than you concerning these players?

While we're casual fans...the front office lives this stuff. They get paid to do this! You don't think they made inquires concerning who ever you want? There's 31 other teams they're competing against.

I've heard that argument many times over the past several years. A lot of experts and people who "get paid to do this" who did a lousy job. We have every right to judge and question these people.
[Image: badbaalke.jpg]
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#43

(03-14-2022, 10:47 PM)scottyg Wrote: That's an awful lot of money for someone that's just been pretty good. Would have rather spent it on Chark

AMEN!

The more I think about this move, the angrier I become.  Frankly I think it's indefensible.  Why?  Because its not just signing Kirk, its signaling that DJ Chark is going to be playing somewhere else next season.  Excuse me?  

DJ Chark has a thousand Yard season as an outside the numbers receiver with limited QB play and no other real threat around him.  Christian Kirk played in the slot with two first ballot Hall of famers on the outside with a good young QB.  DJ Chark is a better football player than him right now, and there's no question that Chark has the greater upside.  

We just committed 72 million dollars on a slot receiver and were going to ask him to be productive against Teams best corners?  Good luck with that!
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#44

(03-15-2022, 03:32 AM)jj82284 Wrote:
(03-14-2022, 10:47 PM)scottyg Wrote: That's an awful lot of money for someone that's just been pretty good. Would have rather spent it on Chark

AMEN!

The more I think about this move, the angrier I become.  Frankly I think it's indefensible.  Why?  Because its not just signing Kirk, its signaling that DJ Chark is going to be playing somewhere else next season.  Excuse me?  

DJ Chark has a thousand Yard season as an outside the numbers receiver with limited QB play and no other real threat around him.  Christian Kirk played in the slot with two first ballot Hall of famers on the outside with a good young QB.  DJ Chark is a better football player than him right now, and there's no question that Chark has the greater upside.  

We just committed 72 million dollars on a slot receiver and were going to ask him to be productive against Teams best corners?  Good luck with that!

Kirk has been more productive than Chark has been (I wanted Chark back btw) and really we've only committed $37 million to Kirk as of now. If he plays out his full contract then he'll get that $72m+. If he continues to get better and out performs it, that contract will look like a steal in 2 years when a dozen+ other WRs get paid far more than he's making.

Also, we don't know if Chark even had any interest in coming back. He removed all his Jags stuff from his social media a while ago. You can't force players to sign/re-sign here. If they want out, they're gone, which we've seen plenty of times over the past few years with Allen Robinson, Ramsey, Ngakoue etc.
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#45

(03-14-2022, 09:56 PM)RicoTx Wrote: Good Lord.  People complain if we do nothing and complain if we do something.  Whatever.

Right? People say "let's be active, I know we'll have to overpay in FA". Followed up by, "Damn what are we doing overpaying?"

Free agency is fools gold with a few exceptions.
I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
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#46

(03-15-2022, 03:32 AM)jj82284 Wrote:
(03-14-2022, 10:47 PM)scottyg Wrote: That's an awful lot of money for someone that's just been pretty good. Would have rather spent it on Chark

AMEN!

The more I think about this move, the angrier I become.  Frankly I think it's indefensible.  Why?  Because its not just signing Kirk, its signaling that DJ Chark is going to be playing somewhere else next season.  Excuse me?  

DJ Chark has a thousand Yard season as an outside the numbers receiver with limited QB play and no other real threat around him.  Christian Kirk played in the slot with two first ballot Hall of famers on the outside with a good young QB.  DJ Chark is a better football player than him right now, and there's no question that Chark has the greater upside.  

We just committed 72 million dollars on a slot receiver and were going to ask him to be productive against Teams best corners?  Good luck with that!

I wanted Chark back because he has #1 receiver attributes, but being honest most of it is projection. He hasn't done it and he can't stay healthy.

And it seems the team is tired of "he can be" guys who should be able too, but haven't as of yet. We've suffered from off-brand players long enough. Going back to the days of Del Rio where he often said, "Well we couldn't get ____, but we think....CECIL SHORTS can be just as good as...Reggie Wayne if given the chance".

I hope those days are over and we get guys who have actually done it.
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#47

attacked that wr problem really nicely. Still would be nice to some how get chark jr back I agree with what was stated above.
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#48
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2022, 10:39 AM by Mikey.)

(03-14-2022, 05:44 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote:
(03-14-2022, 05:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I'm starting a thread for Kirk.  I love how this contract is.  We can get out after year 2 with only a 1 mil dead cap hit.  Almost all of his guaranteed money is in the 1st 2 years.  Great job by Ballke on how he did the contract.  His contract  is 37 mil guaranteed


https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/...cdOxkH1OyQ

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville...irk-25146/

That's not how signing bonuses and dead money work.

To clarify, the signing bonus is spread out over the life of the contract.  If we get out after year 2 of a 4 year deal, there will still be $10 million of the $20 million signing bonus unaccounted for that would immediately go against our cap.  To be honest though, the cap goes up pretty significantly each year except the pandemic outbreak season so it's not that big a deal either way.

this is correct. it may be that the cap savings would be 1mill different, but you still eat the amortization the year they are sent packing (unless you designate a post-june1 cut)

(03-14-2022, 06:07 PM)jj82284 Wrote: I hate this signing with the passion of a thousand suns.

I can't get that emotionally invested in how a team spends money that was never going to be in my hands.

(03-14-2022, 06:51 PM)Firesky Wrote: This is miles better than Marqise Lee & Donte Moncrief for a combined 19.5 Million $. I think that he likely wont live up to the total $ but will be an excellent player for us and someone Trevor can lean on.

perspective is important.
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#49

(03-15-2022, 04:53 AM)Eric1 Wrote:
(03-15-2022, 03:32 AM)jj82284 Wrote: AMEN!

The more I think about this move, the angrier I become.  Frankly I think it's indefensible.  Why?  Because its not just signing Kirk, its signaling that DJ Chark is going to be playing somewhere else next season.  Excuse me?  

DJ Chark has a thousand Yard season as an outside the numbers receiver with limited QB play and no other real threat around him.  Christian Kirk played in the slot with two first ballot Hall of famers on the outside with a good young QB.  DJ Chark is a better football player than him right now, and there's no question that Chark has the greater upside.  

We just committed 72 million dollars on a slot receiver and were going to ask him to be productive against Teams best corners?  Good luck with that!

Kirk has been more productive than Chark has been (I wanted Chark back btw) and really we've only committed $37 million to Kirk as of now. If he plays out his full contract then he'll get that $72m+. If he continues to get better and out performs it, that contract will look like a steal in 2 years when a dozen+ other WRs get paid far more than he's making.

Also, we don't know if Chark even had any interest in coming back. He removed all his Jags stuff from his social media a while ago. You can't force players to sign/re-sign here. If they want out, they're gone, which we've seen plenty of times over the past few years with Allen Robinson, Ramsey, Ngakoue etc.

No he hasn't.  Chark was hurt last year, that's the only difference.  I've stated the different factors.  

I hope he works out.   I support the team, but this has disaster written all over it.  

Kirk is also getting 9 million more in 2022 than kirk. 

#andithoughtmyjokeswerebad!
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#50

(03-14-2022, 10:47 PM)scottyg Wrote: That's an awful lot of money for someone that's just been pretty good. Would have rather spent it on Chark

I'm ok with what we did, Kirk doesn't have nearly the injury history. Those start to pile up and take their toll as the seasons go on.

Chark is a loin now, I wish him well, but I'll also be keeping an eye on how healthy he can be over the next few years.
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#51

Kirk does things that no other receiver on our roster currently can. He has speed and separation ability. I'm fine with it. It's not my money.
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#52

(03-15-2022, 11:25 AM)Khan Artist Wrote: Kirk does things that no other receiver on our roster currently can.  He has speed and separation ability.  I'm fine with it.  It's not my money.

I'm no expert on Kirk's skillset having not watched him very much though I like what I've seen. 

I definitely agree on the money part, though. 
This offseason is especially tilted in favor of overpaying in free agency compared to many in the past - and I'm fine with it if we are getting better in the process. Price of doing business in an inflated salary cap year.
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#53

(03-15-2022, 11:29 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-15-2022, 11:25 AM)Khan Artist Wrote: Kirk does things that no other receiver on our roster currently can.  He has speed and separation ability.  I'm fine with it.  It's not my money.

I'm no expert on Kirk's skillset having not watched him very much though I like what I've seen. 

I definitely agree on the money part, though. 
This offseason is especially tilted in favor of overpaying in free agency compared to many in the past - and I'm fine with it if we are getting better in the process. Price of doing business in an inflated salary cap year.

There are a fair amount of plays where he bails Murray out of a bad throw, makes a contested catch over the middle, or burns someone deep.

I think they're obviously betting on upside.  He's 25 and his best football should hypothetically be ahead of him.
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#54

(03-15-2022, 11:42 AM)Khan Artist Wrote:
(03-15-2022, 11:29 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: I'm no expert on Kirk's skillset having not watched him very much though I like what I've seen. 

I definitely agree on the money part, though. 
This offseason is especially tilted in favor of overpaying in free agency compared to many in the past - and I'm fine with it if we are getting better in the process. Price of doing business in an inflated salary cap year.

There are a fair amount of plays where he bails Murray out of a bad throw, makes a contested catch over the middle, or burns someone deep.

I think they're obviously betting on upside.  He's 25 and his best football should hypothetically be ahead of him.

This is why I like it. Usually free agency works the other way round which is a big reason teams overpay. You pay for what they have been but their best days are probably behind them.
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#55

(03-15-2022, 11:29 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: This offseason is especially tilted in favor of overpaying in free agency compared to many in the past - and I'm fine with it if we are getting better in the process. Price of doing business in an inflated salary cap year.

I have actually been pretty surprised with how reasonable the deals have been this year outside of our overpays. I've listed a ton in the NFL at large FA thread that are excellent values.
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#56

I hope you guys don’t think Kirk is some big free agent signing. He’s just a guy. And that contract has to be the worst in the league for his production.

He’s never scored more than 6 TDs in a season and has never topped the 1,000 mark in a season. In 2020 he had 48 catches for 621 yards.

Those are TE numbers. By the way we still need some WRs. I don’t even think this guy is a number 3. What we’re they thinking ?
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#57

(03-15-2022, 07:39 AM)Mandeezee Wrote:
(03-15-2022, 03:32 AM)jj82284 Wrote: AMEN!

The more I think about this move, the angrier I become.  Frankly I think it's indefensible.  Why?  Because its not just signing Kirk, its signaling that DJ Chark is going to be playing somewhere else next season.  Excuse me?  

DJ Chark has a thousand Yard season as an outside the numbers receiver with limited QB play and no other real threat around him.  Christian Kirk played in the slot with two first ballot Hall of famers on the outside with a good young QB.  DJ Chark is a better football player than him right now, and there's no question that Chark has the greater upside.  

We just committed 72 million dollars on a slot receiver and were going to ask him to be productive against Teams best corners?  Good luck with that!

I wanted Chark back because he has #1 receiver attributes, but being honest most of it is projection. He hasn't done it and he can't stay healthy.

And it seems the team is tired of "he can be" guys who should be able too, but haven't as of yet. We've suffered from off-brand players long enough. Going back to the days of Del Rio where he often said, "Well we couldn't get ____, but we think....CECIL SHORTS can be just as good as...Reggie Wayne if given the chance".

I hope those days are over and we get guys who have actually done it.

1.) Everyone can get rolled up in a pile.  He didn't have a history of chronic injury before a freak bone break.  

2.)  Christian kirk hasn't played outside period!
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#58

(03-15-2022, 07:43 PM)jj82284 Wrote:
(03-15-2022, 07:39 AM)Mandeezee Wrote: I wanted Chark back because he has #1 receiver attributes, but being honest most of it is projection. He hasn't done it and he can't stay healthy.

And it seems the team is tired of "he can be" guys who should be able too, but haven't as of yet. We've suffered from off-brand players long enough. Going back to the days of Del Rio where he often said, "Well we couldn't get ____, but we think....CECIL SHORTS can be just as good as...Reggie Wayne if given the chance".

I hope those days are over and we get guys who have actually done it.

1.) Everyone can get rolled up in a pile.  He didn't have a history of chronic injury before a freak bone break.  

2.)  Christian kirk hasn't played outside period!

In some offense's the inside receiver is the #1 receiver.   I don't understand why they payed Kirk that much but they must have some plan.
[Image: mvp.avia8a99974486b2b89.md.png]
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#59

(03-15-2022, 03:32 AM)jj82284 Wrote:
(03-14-2022, 10:47 PM)scottyg Wrote: That's an awful lot of money for someone that's just been pretty good. Would have rather spent it on Chark

AMEN!

The more I think about this move, the angrier I become.  Frankly I think it's indefensible.  Why?  Because its not just signing Kirk, its signaling that DJ Chark is going to be playing somewhere else next season.  Excuse me?  

DJ Chark has a thousand Yard season as an outside the numbers receiver with limited QB play and no other real threat around him.  Christian Kirk played in the slot with two first ballot Hall of famers on the outside with a good young QB.  DJ Chark is a better football player than him right now, and there's no question that Chark has the greater upside.  

We just committed 72 million dollars on a slot receiver and were going to ask him to be productive against Teams best corners?  Good luck with that!

Kirk was 18 yards from 1000 yards last year it's not like he's missed it by a mile. Chark was 8 yards over 1000.

Kirk had his best year last year as the 3rd option. Charks 1000 yard season was 3 years ago as the only option on the team and has done very little since.

I would rather pay the guy who looks like their on the up swing on their career then a guy who's chasing a previous season.
[Image: OIG4.uBuSY6yngBYRov__0Zi.?dpr=2.6&pid=ImgDetMain]
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#60

(03-15-2022, 08:06 PM)Protozoa Wrote:
(03-15-2022, 03:32 AM)jj82284 Wrote: AMEN!

The more I think about this move, the angrier I become.  Frankly I think it's indefensible.  Why?  Because its not just signing Kirk, its signaling that DJ Chark is going to be playing somewhere else next season.  Excuse me?  

DJ Chark has a thousand Yard season as an outside the numbers receiver with limited QB play and no other real threat around him.  Christian Kirk played in the slot with two first ballot Hall of famers on the outside with a good young QB.  DJ Chark is a better football player than him right now, and there's no question that Chark has the greater upside.  

We just committed 72 million dollars on a slot receiver and were going to ask him to be productive against Teams best corners?  Good luck with that!

Kirk was 18 yards from 1000 yards last year it's not like he's missed it by a mile. Chark was 8 yards over 1000.

Kirk had his best year last year as the 3rd option. Charks 1000 yard season was 3 years ago as the only option on the team and has done very little since.

I would rather pay the guy who looks like their on the up swing on their career then a guy who's chasing a previous season.

I'd like to pay them both since Chark would be the closest thing to an X receiver on the team and Kirk is certain to work primarily from the Y.
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