Ngakoue still crying and blaming others for why he can't stick with a team.  Dude has some talent.  But neither he nor his agent recognize that he's a really good complementary piece, not an alpha dog.  https://nfltraderumors.co/afc-notes-colt...titans-87/

These quotes are from the article you cited.

"When I felt like I was getting disrespected...I was vocal about it.  Which I fewlt like led to this situation. ...I guess I left a bad taste in people's mouth."

(Emphasis added)

Where I messed up, is I didn't do my research on what kind of scheme they ran."  

(Emphasis added)

Both of these quotes indicate he takes at least some responsibility in his departures.

What should be of greater concern is NOT his alleged lack of personal responsibility, but the fact that some three years after he was traded, we STILL haven't replaced the production of a guy most fans here stated overvalued himself.

What SHOULD be of greater concern is in the two seasons we didn't have him on the team at all after we traded him, we've won a total of FOUR (4) games.

What SHOULD be of greater concern is once again, the team has used two premium draft choice on reaches for guys the team hoped would replace his productivity (Chaisson and Walker).

What's interesting is that the people dismissing Ngakoue and Ramsey for asking for too much money have applauded paying Christian Kirk his contract. Probably because Kirk got offered good money vs demanding too much money that you are obviously not worth it (Ngakoue)

It seems the crime isn't being overpaid...but being outspoken.

And you think he would have made a difference? LOL and even if he did (he wouldn't), what good would have been to win 1 more game in 2020 and 2021?

There is a reason why no one wants to keep the guy, he is garbage vs the run, has a big mouth and overvalues himself.
You don't think the Raiders, Vikings, Ravens would like to have a good pass rusher? he said it himself, other teams paid others instead of him. I guess everyone just hates poor saint Ngakoue, that's the only reason.

I just find it hilarious how people still cry about those 2, like if the team just wanted to trade them just because, or like if we would have won 2 SBs by now if we kept those 2 

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

It's a shame that Yannick has kept himself from getting the kind of good, but not insane, contract he merits. Hopefully he doesn't suffer a career ending injury soon.

He's a really good pass rusher, but it's hard to find a team that has a large amount of cap space they want to spend on a guy that can't hold up against the run.

---

These quotes are from the article you cited.

(Emphasis added)

(Emphasis added)

Both of these quotes indicate he takes at least some responsibility in his departures.

What should be of greater concern is NOT his alleged lack of personal responsibility, but the fact that some three years after he was traded, we STILL haven't replaced the production of a guy most fans here stated overvalued himself.

What SHOULD be of greater concern is in the two seasons we didn't have him on the team at all after we traded him, we've won a total of FOUR (4) games.

What SHOULD be of greater concern is once again, the team has used two premium draft choice on reaches for guys the team hoped would replace his productivity (Chaisson and Walker).

What's interesting is that the people dismissing Ngakoue and Ramsey for asking for too much money have applauded paying Christian Kirk his contract. Probably because Kirk got offered good money vs demanding too much money that you are obviously not worth it (Ngakoue)

It seems the crime isn't being overpaid...but being outspoken.

And you think he would have made a difference? LOL and even if he did (he wouldn't), what good would have been to win 1 more game in 2020 and 2021?

There is a reason why no one wants to keep the guy, he is garbage vs the run, has a big mouth and overvalues himself.
You don't think the Raiders, Vikings, Ravens would like to have a good pass rusher? he said it himself, other teams paid others instead of him. I guess everyone just hates poor saint Ngakoue, that's the only reason.

I just find it hilarious how people still cry about those 2, like if the team just wanted to trade them just because, or like if we would have won 2 SBs by now if we kept those 2 

Literally no one said either of the things you are claiming here. At least get somewhere on the same continent with your troll job hyperbole. 

Ngakoue screwed up equally to the front office (Coughlin) by holding out for too much and is equally to blame. 
No one is crying about it. It's ancient history - but the new regime needs to be more successful retaining talent. 

Ramsey is even more to blame in his case, but again, the Coughlin element is present. Who knows if a better a FO situation may have negotiated more effectively? We'll never know. 

We're in year 2 of a new rebuild now, and we can't afford to let a Coughlin-type-situation alienate multiple early draft picks before we can sign them to new deals.

---

And you think he would have made a difference? LOL and even if he did (he wouldn't), what good would have been to win 1 more game in 2020 and 2021?

There is a reason why no one wants to keep the guy, he is garbage vs the run, has a big mouth and overvalues himself.
You don't think the Raiders, Vikings, Ravens would like to have a good pass rusher? he said it himself, other teams paid others instead of him. I guess everyone just hates poor saint Ngakoue, that's the only reason.

I just find it hilarious how people still cry about those 2, like if the team just wanted to trade them just because, or like if we would have won 2 SBs by now if we kept those 2 

Literally no one said either of the things you are claiming here. At least get somewhere on the same continent with your troll job hyperbole. 

Ngakoue screwed up equally to the front office (Coughlin) by holding out for too much and is equally to blame. 
No one is crying about it. It's ancient history - but the new regime needs to be more successful retaining talent. 

Ramsey is even more to blame in his case, but again, the Coughlin element is present. Who knows if a better a FO situation may have negotiated more effectively? We'll never know. 

We're in year 2 of a new rebuild now, and we can't afford to let a Coughlin-type-situation alienate multiple early draft picks before we can sign them to new deals.

I never said anyone said those things, I clearly meant that some people are acting like the team traded them for no reason or...

Read Bullseye's post again, clearly he can't let go of the whole thing and he always posts something similar when talking about those 2.
Caldwell is gone. Ngakoue is gone. Walker pick has nothing to do with Ngakoue.
BTW money was NEVER an issue with Ramsey as Khan said he had no problem making him the highest paid CB in the league. Also, I don't remember many people on the board not wanting to pay Ramsey, so, there was no "dismissing Ramsey because he wanted too much money".

I didn't even quote you on that other post but thanks for letting me know I can still make you cry so easily.

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Literally no one said either of the things you are claiming here. At least get somewhere on the same continent with your troll job hyperbole. 

Ngakoue screwed up equally to the front office (Coughlin) by holding out for too much and is equally to blame. 
No one is crying about it. It's ancient history - but the new regime needs to be more successful retaining talent. 

Ramsey is even more to blame in his case, but again, the Coughlin element is present. Who knows if a better a FO situation may have negotiated more effectively? We'll never know. 

We're in year 2 of a new rebuild now, and we can't afford to let a Coughlin-type-situation alienate multiple early draft picks before we can sign them to new deals.

I never said anyone said those things, I clearly meant that some people are acting like the team traded them for no reason or...

Read Bullseye's post again, clearly he can't let go of the whole thing and he always posts something similar when talking about those 2.
Caldwell is gone. Ngakoue is gone. Walker pick has nothing to do with Ngakoue.
BTW money was NEVER an issue with Ramsey as Khan said he had no problem making him the highest paid CB in the league. Also, I don't remember many people on the board not wanting to pay Ramsey, so, there was no "dismissing Ramsey because he wanted too much money".

I didn't even quote you on that other post but thanks for letting me know I can still make you cry so easily.

LOL
never change

---

Literally no one said either of the things you are claiming here. At least get somewhere on the same continent with your troll job hyperbole. 

Ngakoue screwed up equally to the front office (Coughlin) by holding out for too much and is equally to blame. 
No one is crying about it. It's ancient history - but the new regime needs to be more successful retaining talent. 

Ramsey is even more to blame in his case, but again, the Coughlin element is present. Who knows if a better a FO situation may have negotiated more effectively? We'll never know. 

We're in year 2 of a new rebuild now, and we can't afford to let a Coughlin-type-situation alienate multiple early draft picks before we can sign them to new deals.

I never said anyone said those things, I clearly meant that some people are acting like the team traded them for no reason or...

Read Bullseye's post again, clearly he can't let go of the whole thing and he always posts something similar when talking about those 2.
Caldwell is gone. Ngakoue is gone. Walker pick has nothing to do with Ngakoue.
BTW money was NEVER an issue with Ramsey as Khan said he had no problem making him the highest paid CB in the league. Also, I don't remember many people on the board not wanting to pay Ramsey, so, there was no "dismissing Ramsey because he wanted too much money".

I didn't even quote you on that other post but thanks for letting me know I can still make you cry so easily.

First off, I never mentioned Ngakoue until someone else created this thread, bashing him for a quote he made years after he left the team.  The quote wasn't directly referencing the team in terms of the primary subject matter.  The bashing alleged he still didn't take any responsibility for his career.  The bashing overwhelmingly paints Ramsey and Ngakoue as bad people.  Rarely does it focus on them as football players.  If anyone can't let Ngakoue go, it's your side of this acting like the jilted teen girls mad because their exes have moved on.

Secondly and sadly the facts don't change just because the players have changed teams, which is why my arguments on this matter have not changed.

When Ngakoue and Ramsey were here, they were two of the best three or four defenders on the team that finished in the top 5-10 defensively throughout their stays here.  Only Calais Campbell and Telvin Smith rank among them during that time period.  In just about every objective measurable category, the Jaguars defense was in the abyss before they got here, rose to prominence and dominance when they were here and absolutely fell off a cliff back into the abyss when they left.  That is beyond dispute, even in this very thread.  Those of you who bash Ngakoue and Ramsey as overrated and easily replaceable somehow have no reason, no explanation whatsoever why neither guy has been adequately replaced by this team.  The MOST you've said is that their presence would not have made any difference on a team this bad. Aside from our history showing that wasn't true...giving us our first and only winning season between 2008 amd the present, it raises the patently silly, though perhaps unintentional argument that bad teams should not bother trying to accumulate superior talent in the effort to win. Trevor Lawrence didn't make the difference between last year's team reaching the Super Bowl or not. Does that mean we should get rid of him, too?

But I've come to realize parts of this fan base simply have no appreciation for defensive play makers, even during a time there have been scant offensive play makers to counterbalance it or otherwise merit the admiration of Jaguars fans.  Brackens ranks as the team's all time leading sacker and the preeminent play making catalyst of the Coughlin era teams.  But there was no end to the Brackens bashing.  Popular criticisms included his holdout, and assertions he did not go all out on every play.  Heck, I remember him getting bashed for the play he made against Marino and the Dolphins in the 62-7 win, when he sacked Marino, forced a fumble, recovered the fumble, and actually scored a TD.  It speaks volumes no defensive players have ever gotten serious consideration for the Pride.

While I certainly don't place blame on parts of the fan base for the failings of this team's ownership, front office, and coaching, perhaps part of the fan base has gotten the team they deserve for thirteen out of the last fourteen years, given how they habitually vilify those most responsible for the winning that has taken place here.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

https://twitter.com/PFF_Colts/status/152...1102018560

---

If take him back in a heartbeat

---

https://twitter.com/PFF_Colts/status/152...1102018560

I don’t think anyone would deny his pass rushing ability, it’s his run defense that gets him in trouble. His position doesn’t need to be great, but decent enough to a degree. He’s one of if not the worst DE vs the run off the edge. He’s a good rotational 3rd down DE, that’s about it.

---

https://twitter.com/PFF_Colts/status/152...1102018560

That's odd.

As many people who continue to insist Ngakoue is overrated, none of the four guys ranked ahead of him are Jaguars.

---

If take him back in a heartbeat

Apparently, there are many Jaguars fans who think the team that finished with the worst record in the league in back to back years and among the league's worst in sacks has no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

https://twitter.com/PFF_Colts/status/152...1102018560

I don’t think anyone would deny his pass rushing ability, it’s his run defense that gets him in trouble. His position doesn’t need to be great, but decent enough to a degree. He’s one of if not the worst DE vs the run off the edge. He’s a good rotational 3rd down DE, that’s about it.

1.  So you''d rather have Jared Odrick, Gotsis, or RRH?

2.  In 2020, the Jaguars finished 30th in rush yards allowed, 32nd in rush attempts allowed, 29th in rushing TDs allowed,  and 27th in yards per attempt allowed.  Last year, the team finished  23rd in rush yards allowed, 29th in rushing TDs allowed, and 16th in yards per attempt. Neither Ngakoue nor Ramsey were here, so the deficiencies against the run weren't on them.  In 2017, with Ngakoue as the starter at RDE and Ramsey at CB, the team was 21st in rush yards allowed and 26th in average.  In 2018, with Ngakoue the starter at RDE and Ramsey at CB, the team was 19th in rush yards allowed and 14th in yards per attempt.  Certainly not the 1985 Bears or 200 Ravens, or even the 2004-1006 Jaguars, but respectable.  That shows me Ngakoue was not solely to blame for this team's struggle against the run.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

If take him back in a heartbeat

Apparently, there are many Jaguars fans who think the team that finished with the worswt record in the league in back to back years and among the league's worst in sacks has no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills.

....is it that they project having no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills, or no use for Ngakoue himself?

Careful when painting with a broad brush. Certainly Ngakoue is talented. But can you expect to replicate his skillset in someone else without the ego/history that comes with Yan?

---

Apparently, there are many Jaguars fans who think the team that finished with the worswt record in the league in back to back years and among the league's worst in sacks has no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills.

....is it that they project having no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills, or no use for Ngakoue himself?

Careful when painting with a broad brush. Certainly Ngakoue is talented. But can you expect to replicate his skillset in someone else without the ego/history that comes with Yan?

Ego?!?

Seriously?!?  Your problem with Ngakoue is ego?

Here's a newsflash:  NFL players have been the elite athletes in their schools and communities in their entire lives.  They have been gifted adulation and admiration for their athletic prowess.  People have offered and paid them great sums of money/in kind contributions, etc. to get them to come to their schools, where thousands, perhaps millions will cheer them on, only to have more of them do so on Sundays.  NFL players-especially good and great ones-have large egos.

You think Deion Sanders didn't have an ego?  Too easy?  What about Tony Boselli?  Was that humility talking when he beckoned Jason Taylor to come down the field on that Monday Night game?  What about when Fred Taylor got in a snit when he wasn't named the best player in Jaguars history?  That wasn't his ego shining through?  When Richard Sherman called out Crabtree after the NFC championship game a few years back?  That wasn't ego?  When Peyton Manning told Polian that if he didn't draft him, he would kick his butt for 15 years, that was ego.  When Tom Brady trash talked Honey Badger in the Super Bowl a couple of years back, that was ego.  What about when Aaron Rodgers told Chicago Bears fans in Soldier Field "I Still own you!!" that epitomized pure, unadulterated ego.  Do you seriously argue you wouldn't want any of those guys on the Jaguars because of ego?!?

But okay.  I'll play along and assume the fans that wanted Ngakoue gone because of his ego.  What about Brackens?  Brackens didn't get in a very public and nasty post training camp practice fight with a teammate.  Brackens didn't get into any nasty public acrimonious and vituperative back and forth with the son of the owner.  There were no public demands to be traded.  Yet despite his comparatively low key demeanor, people in this fan base still wanted him gone.  They still thought he dogged it most games.  They still trashed him even when he made spectacular plays.

It's just odd to me that so much venom is reserved for the team's most productive players when this team has been so bad for so long.  To me, it makes zero sense to get rid of productive players at the most valuable positions in football, especially without viable replacements in the wings.  It doesn't make any sense to Doug Pederson, either.  Otherwise, he wouldn't have made such a big deal about retaining Josh Allen and Cam Robinson.  He knows there are tanglible and intangible benefits to retaining your best players.  But some Jaguars fans simply don't understand this.  They think we can go to the edge rusher tree and get another edge rusher.  The Jaguars have repeatedly proven with the misses on Hugh Douglas, Reggie Hayward, Aaron Kampman, Derrick Harvey, Quentin Groves, Tyson Alualu, Dante Fowler and many others that it isn't that simple.  With all of those colossal failures at that position in mind, being in a rush to rid the team of a guy like Ngakoue is foolish.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

These quotes are from the article you cited.

(Emphasis added)

(Emphasis added)

Both of these quotes indicate he takes at least some responsibility in his departures.

What should be of greater concern is NOT his alleged lack of personal responsibility, but the fact that some three years after he was traded, we STILL haven't replaced the production of a guy most fans here stated overvalued himself.

What SHOULD be of greater concern is in the two seasons we didn't have him on the team at all after we traded him, we've won a total of FOUR (4) games.

What SHOULD be of greater concern is once again, the team has used two premium draft choice on reaches for guys the team hoped would replace his productivity (Chaisson and Walker).

What's interesting is that the people dismissing Ngakoue and Ramsey for asking for too much money have applauded paying Christian Kirk his contract. Probably because Kirk got offered good money vs demanding too much money that you are obviously not worth it (Ngakoue)

It seems the crime isn't being overpaid...but being outspoken.

And you think he would have made a difference? LOL and even if he did (he wouldn't), what good would have been to win 1 more game in 2020 and 2021?

There is a reason why no one wants to keep the guy, he is garbage vs the run, has a big mouth and overvalues himself.
You don't think the Raiders, Vikings, Ravens would like to have a good pass rusher? he said it himself, other teams paid others instead of him. I guess everyone just hates poor saint Ngakoue, that's the only reason.

I just find it hilarious how people still cry about those 2, like if the team just wanted to trade them just because, or like if we would have won 2 SBs by now if we kept those 2 

Bullseye makes good points as usual.  Referring to Raven post above, an extra win in 2020 would have been tragic in our mission to Tank for Trevor.

---

Apparently, there are many Jaguars fans who think the team that finished with the worswt record in the league in back to back years and among the league's worst in sacks has no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills.

....is it that they project having no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills, or no use for Ngakoue himself?

Careful when painting with a broad brush. Certainly Ngakoue is talented. But can you expect to replicate his skillset in someone else without the ego/history that comes with Yan?

Ngakoue's production in his first 3 years was easily good enough to begin negotiations on a new contract prior to his 4th year.
If you look around at teams that have extended talented players before their final year, or at least begun earnest negotiation to get something done before the first contract expires - Ngakoue's situation fits for either approach. 

The problem was twofold. 

Ngakoue and his agent came in with an unrealistic ask - and the Jags FO came in initially with what the player's camp saw as an insulting offer. 

Eventually, if the leaked numbers are accurate (and we don't really know that), the Jags gave him a pretty good offer. That's where they reportedly ended up. Not where they started. 
He was completely disenfranchised by that point and was determined to seek greener pastures. 

In my mind, both parties failed at the negotiation table. 

It sucks - but the folks flailing about trying to act like we didn't lose a very valuable pass rusher and bashing the player are kidding themselves. Situational pass rushers have great value in this league, even with limited run defense skill. The guy has ended would-be game-winning drives with strip sacks multiple times in his career.
2022 may turn out to be the first year we've had a player come close to matching Ngakoue's pressure and sack numbers since he left. That is a significant loss.

---

....is it that they project having no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills, or no use for Ngakoue himself?

Careful when painting with a broad brush. Certainly Ngakoue is talented. But can you expect to replicate his skillset in someone else without the ego/history that comes with Yan?

Ngakoue's production in his first 3 years was easily good enough to begin negotiations on a new contract prior to his 4th year.
If you look around at teams that have extended talented players before their final year, or at least begun earnest negotiation to get something done before the first contract expires - Ngakoue's situation fits for either approach. 

The problem was twofold. 

Ngakoue and his agent came in with an unrealistic ask - and the Jags FO came in initially with what the player's camp saw as an insulting offer. 

Eventually, if the leaked numbers are accurate (and we don't really know that), the Jags gave him a pretty good offer. That's where they reportedly ended up. Not where they started. 
He was completely disenfranchised by that point and was determined to seek greener pastures. 

In my mind, both parties failed at the negotiation table. 

It sucks - but the folks flailing about trying to act like we didn't lose a very valuable pass rusher and bashing the player are kidding themselves. Situational pass rushers have great value in this league, even with limited run defense skill. The guy has ended would-be game-winning drives with strip sacks multiple times in his career.
2022 may turn out to be the first year we've had a player come close to matching Ngakoue's pressure and sack numbers since he left. That is a significant loss.

(Emphasis added)

This post, especially the closing paragraph emphasized above, sums things up perfectly. 

My question to you is what player do you see coming close to matching Ngakoue's production/numbers?  I see significant defensive performance coming this season, but I'm unsure which of the players you see getting comparable pressures/sacks/forced fumbles to Ngakoue.  For me, the leading candidate would be Allen.  He has proven (at least in Wash's scheme) that he can produce a lot of pressure/sacks when he has help around him.  He showed even last year there were games he was capable of dominating (Buffalo and 2nd Indy game).  But without knowing how they will utilize him in the scheme, I can't know for sure.  I believe they will run a 3-4 scheme similar to Tampa's version, and I believe it's a blitz heavy scheme (which I like in a 3-4), but I don't know for certain.

Do you think there will be another candidate?

I'd love for Allen and another player or four to approach/surpass Ngakoue's pass rush production, but I don't see it happening this year.  If Walker somehow surpasses expectations, maybe.  As much as I like the trade up for Lloyd, I don't know if he is an every down edge rusher.  I know the footage I saw of him early last year, I didn't see him get a lot of pressure when he was lined up right over a T when they rushed him from outside.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Ngakoue's production in his first 3 years was easily good enough to begin negotiations on a new contract prior to his 4th year.
If you look around at teams that have extended talented players before their final year, or at least begun earnest negotiation to get something done before the first contract expires - Ngakoue's situation fits for either approach. 

The problem was twofold. 

Ngakoue and his agent came in with an unrealistic ask - and the Jags FO came in initially with what the player's camp saw as an insulting offer. 

Eventually, if the leaked numbers are accurate (and we don't really know that), the Jags gave him a pretty good offer. That's where they reportedly ended up. Not where they started. 
He was completely disenfranchised by that point and was determined to seek greener pastures. 

In my mind, both parties failed at the negotiation table. 

It sucks - but the folks flailing about trying to act like we didn't lose a very valuable pass rusher and bashing the player are kidding themselves. Situational pass rushers have great value in this league, even with limited run defense skill. The guy has ended would-be game-winning drives with strip sacks multiple times in his career.
2022 may turn out to be the first year we've had a player come close to matching Ngakoue's pressure and sack numbers since he left. That is a significant loss.

(Emphasis added)

This post, especially the closing paragraph emphasized above, sums things up perfectly. 

My question to you is what player do you see coming close to matching Ngakoue's production/numbers?  I see significant defensive performance coming this season, but I'm unsure which of the players you see getting comparable pressures/sacks/forced fumbles to Ngakoue.  For me, the leading candidate would be Allen.  He has proven (at least in Wash's scheme) that he can produce a lot of pressure/sacks when he has help around him.  He showed even last year there were games he was capable of dominating (Buffalo and 2nd Indy game).  But without knowing how they will utilize him in the scheme, I can't know for sure.  I believe they will run a 3-4 scheme similar to Tampa's version, and I believe it's a blitz heavy scheme (which I like in a 3-4), but I don't know for certain.

Do you think there will be another candidate?

I'd love for Allen and another player or four to approach/surpass Ngakoue's pass rush production, but I don't see it happening this year.  If Walker somehow surpasses expectations, maybe.  As much as I like the trade up for Lloyd, I don't know if he is an every down edge rusher.  I know the footage I saw of him early last year, I didn't see him get a lot of pressure when he was lined up right over a T when they rushed him from outside.

Well, I did say "may be..."

I'm moderately confident that Walker will do just enough to offset the attention being given to Allen in opponents' game-planning. 
Freeing him upon to get very close or match a typical season of Ngakoue's pressure/sack stats - all while being more useful vs the run. 

Additionally - taking into account the way that Campbell ostensibly plans to involve ILBs in sack games and stunts + Devin Lloyd's versatility - we may see even more offset to those sack/pressure numbers we've been missing. 

That said - I imagine such development may take a few games or more to begin showing up on Sunday with any consistency.

---

....is it that they project having no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills, or no use for Ngakoue himself?

Careful when painting with a broad brush. Certainly Ngakoue is talented. But can you expect to replicate his skillset in someone else without the ego/history that comes with Yan?

Ego?!?

Seriously?!?  Your problem with Ngakoue is ego?

Here's a newsflash:  NFL players have been the elite athletes in their schools and communities in their entire lives.  They have been gifted adulation and admiration for their athletic prowess.  People have offered and paid them great sums of money/in kind contributions, etc. to get them to come to their schools, where thousands, perhaps millions will cheer them on, only to have more of them do so on Sundays.  NFL players-especially good and great ones-have large egos.

You think Deion Sanders didn't have an ego?  Too easy?  What about Tony Boselli?  Was that humility talking when he beckoned Jason Taylor to come down the field on that Monday Night game?  What about when Fred Taylor got in a snit when he wasn't named the best player in Jaguars history?  That wasn't his ego shining through?  When Richard Sherman called out Crabtree after the NFC championship game a few years back?  That wasn't ego?  When Peyton Manning told Polian that if he didn't draft him, he would kick his butt for 15 years, that was ego.  When Tom Brady trash talked Honey Badger in the Super Bowl a couple of years back, that was ego.  What about when Aaron Rodgers told Chicago Bears fans in Soldier Field "I Still own you!!" that epitomized pure, unadulterated ego.  Do you seriously argue you wouldn't want any of those guys on the Jaguars because of ego?!?

But okay.  I'll play along and assume the fans that wanted Ngakoue gone because of his ego.  What about Brackens?  Brackens didn't get in a very public and nasty post training camp practice fight with a teammate.  Brackens didn't get into any nasty public acrimonious and vituperative back and forth with the son of the owner.  There were no public demands to be traded.  Yet despite his comparatively low key demeanor, people in this fan base still wanted him gone.  They still thought he dogged it most games.  They still trashed him even when he made spectacular plays.

It's just odd to me that so much venom is reserved for the team's most productive players when this team has been so bad for so long.  To me, it makes zero sense to get rid of productive players at the most valuable positions in football, especially without viable replacements in the wings.  It doesn't make any sense to Doug Pederson, either.  Otherwise, he wouldn't have made such a big deal about retaining Josh Allen and Cam Robinson.  He knows there are tanglible and intangible benefits to retaining your best players.  But some Jaguars fans simply don't understand this.  They think we can go to the edge rusher tree and get another edge rusher.  The Jaguars have repeatedly proven with the misses on Hugh Douglas, Reggie Hayward, Aaron Kampman, Derrick Harvey, Quentin Groves, Tyson Alualu, Dante Fowler and many others that it isn't that simple.  With all of those colossal failures at that position in mind, being in a rush to rid the team of a guy like Ngakoue is foolish.

Dude, this is taking things way too personally. What word would you use to describe someone who thinks they deserve top five money or refuses to play for a particular team/coach/owner/GM?

I used "ego". Sorry if that caused you internal strife.

You lamented that many fans think the team has no use for a guy with Yan's skills. I simply stated that the problem among fans might not be the skillset, but the player. Maybe it's the price tag?

If our goal is to find a guy who can rush the passer and rush the passer alone, my thinking is that we can easily find that around the league without having to revisit the drama we encountered with Yan. I'd like the bar to be a little higher than that, but at the very least, seeking help from different players may end up more affordable, younger, or less distracting, and wouldn't that be just as good if not better?

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....is it that they project having no use for a guy with Ngakoue's skills, or no use for Ngakoue himself?

Careful when painting with a broad brush. Certainly Ngakoue is talented. But can you expect to replicate his skillset in someone else without the ego/history that comes with Yan?

Ngakoue's production in his first 3 years was easily good enough to begin negotiations on a new contract prior to his 4th year.
If you look around at teams that have extended talented players before their final year, or at least begun earnest negotiation to get something done before the first contract expires - Ngakoue's situation fits for either approach. 

The problem was twofold. 

Ngakoue and his agent came in with an unrealistic ask - and the Jags FO came in initially with what the player's camp saw as an insulting offer. 

Eventually, if the leaked numbers are accurate (and we don't really know that), the Jags gave him a pretty good offer. That's where they reportedly ended up. Not where they started. 
He was completely disenfranchised by that point and was determined to seek greener pastures. 

In my mind, both parties failed at the negotiation table. 

It sucks - but the folks flailing about trying to act like we didn't lose a very valuable pass rusher and bashing the player are kidding themselves. Situational pass rushers have great value in this league, even with limited run defense skill. The guy has ended would-be game-winning drives with strip sacks multiple times in his career.
2022 may turn out to be the first year we've had a player come close to matching Ngakoue's pressure and sack numbers since he left. That is a significant loss.

Agreed completely. I don't take umbrage with Ngakoue. But if you expect to be paid like a top player, you either need to perform at that level or prove irreplaceable. While we've not had dominant pass rush in the years since his departure, I'd attribute that a lot more to losing guys like Calais and Ramsey than to us refusing to cave to his demands.

I think his history of relocation is showing that he either is not irreplaceable or is not performing equal to the pay he expects or signs for.

I hope he underperforms for the duration of his time in Indy

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Ego?!?

Seriously?!?  Your problem with Ngakoue is ego?

Here's a newsflash:  NFL players have been the elite athletes in their schools and communities in their entire lives.  They have been gifted adulation and admiration for their athletic prowess.  People have offered and paid them great sums of money/in kind contributions, etc. to get them to come to their schools, where thousands, perhaps millions will cheer them on, only to have more of them do so on Sundays.  NFL players-especially good and great ones-have large egos.

You think Deion Sanders didn't have an ego?  Too easy?  What about Tony Boselli?  Was that humility talking when he beckoned Jason Taylor to come down the field on that Monday Night game?  What about when Fred Taylor got in a snit when he wasn't named the best player in Jaguars history?  That wasn't his ego shining through?  When Richard Sherman called out Crabtree after the NFC championship game a few years back?  That wasn't ego?  When Peyton Manning told Polian that if he didn't draft him, he would kick his butt for 15 years, that was ego.  When Tom Brady trash talked Honey Badger in the Super Bowl a couple of years back, that was ego.  What about when Aaron Rodgers told Chicago Bears fans in Soldier Field "I Still own you!!" that epitomized pure, unadulterated ego.  Do you seriously argue you wouldn't want any of those guys on the Jaguars because of ego?!?

But okay.  I'll play along and assume the fans that wanted Ngakoue gone because of his ego.  What about Brackens?  Brackens didn't get in a very public and nasty post training camp practice fight with a teammate.  Brackens didn't get into any nasty public acrimonious and vituperative back and forth with the son of the owner.  There were no public demands to be traded.  Yet despite his comparatively low key demeanor, people in this fan base still wanted him gone.  They still thought he dogged it most games.  They still trashed him even when he made spectacular plays.

It's just odd to me that so much venom is reserved for the team's most productive players when this team has been so bad for so long.  To me, it makes zero sense to get rid of productive players at the most valuable positions in football, especially without viable replacements in the wings.  It doesn't make any sense to Doug Pederson, either.  Otherwise, he wouldn't have made such a big deal about retaining Josh Allen and Cam Robinson.  He knows there are tanglible and intangible benefits to retaining your best players.  But some Jaguars fans simply don't understand this.  They think we can go to the edge rusher tree and get another edge rusher.  The Jaguars have repeatedly proven with the misses on Hugh Douglas, Reggie Hayward, Aaron Kampman, Derrick Harvey, Quentin Groves, Tyson Alualu, Dante Fowler and many others that it isn't that simple.  With all of those colossal failures at that position in mind, being in a rush to rid the team of a guy like Ngakoue is foolish.

Dude, this is taking things way too personally. What word would you use to describe someone who thinks they deserve top five money or refuses to play for a particular team/coach/owner/GM?

I used "ego". Sorry if that caused you internal strife.

You lamented that many fans think the team has no use for a guy with Yan's skills. I simply stated that the problem among fans might not be the skillset, but the player. Maybe it's the price tag?

If our goal is to find a guy who can rush the passer and rush the passer alone, my thinking is that we can easily find that around the league without having to revisit the drama we encountered with Yan. I'd like the bar to be a little higher than that, but at the very least, seeking help from different players may end up more affordable, younger, or less distracting, and wouldn't that be just as good if not better?

What word would I use?  Perhaps "Productive DE...poor businessman?"  Maybe "overly reliant on an overly aggressive agent?"  Maybe "a guy who took the negotiations too personally."  Since none of us were privy to the particulars of the private aspects of the negotiations, maybe "justified in being insulted."  It's not as if the team hasn't pissed off productive players before. 

If it were a matter of price that caused the venom towards Ngakoue, why no hostility towards Christian Kirk?  He reset the market for WRs more than Ngajoue would have for DEs...and Ngakoue at least had a pro bowl on his resume.  Kirk has no such accolades and you're (not you specifically, but the plural you...i.e. you guys who trash Ngakoue) fine with him being overpaid. Under the paradigm of overpaid players/players who want to be overpaid are bad people, Kirk should be walking around in sackcloth because he accepted that contract or being tarred and feathered by the fans when he hasn't even cracked 1000 yards receiving in a season.  For perspective, fans here shrugged when DJ Chark walked out of here for a $10 million deal in Detroit, and he has a Pro Bowl and a 100 yard season in his resume.  Kirk has a deal 4 years and anywhere from 72-84 million dollar deal  You guys should be absolutely frothing at the mouth over the Kirk deal, but you aren't.  Clearly it isn't about rewarding productivity.  It's particularly confusing considering the historical Ketchman fueled aversion to the WR position many of the same fans here have had over the years.   It's even more confusing when you hear fans lament the lack of loyalty players have to teams.  Ramsey and Yan actually produced for the Jaguars at premium positions.  Kirk hasn't.  Hopefully he WILL end up being an insanely productive player for us, but he hasn't done anything for the team yet. 

As for your thinking we can "easily" find what Yan offered as a player, how has that worked out?  As I pointed out, since Brackens retired, nobody else on the team has been anywhere near as productive a pass rusher as Ngakoue was for us.  Since Ngakoue left, nobody has produced what Ngakoue has produced for us.  We've spent NINE (9) premium picks (more considering the trades to get Harvey and Groves) drafting DEs/Edge rushers and counting that did not and have not given what Ngakoue provided.  We spent:

• a 1st round pick on Renaldo Wynn.  He wound up with 13.5 sacks for us.
  
• a 1st round pick (#8 overall) on Derrick Harvey.  He wound up with 8 sacks for us
  
• 1 2nd round pick on Quentin Groves.  He had 2.5 sacks for us.
  
• a 1st round pick (#10 overall) on Tyson Alualu.  He had 17 sacks for us over two contracts
  
• a 2nd round pick on Andre Branch,  He produced 14 sacks.
  
• a 1st round pick (#3 overall)) on Dante Fowler-14 sacks for us
  
• a first round pick (#7 overall) on Josh Allen-20.5 sacks for us
  
• a first round pick on K'Lavon Chaisson0 2 sacks.
  
• a 1st round pick (#1 overall) on Travon Walker
  

Combined...between NINE players, they have combined for a total of 91 sacks.  Ngakoue wound up with 37.5 in Jacksonville and has 55.5 career sacks by himself.  If Josh Allen is to match Ngakoue's 4 year totals here, he will need a 17.5 sack season this year.

In fairness, Walker just got here.  Though I have my doubts, he may end up being a productive, impact edge rusher.

 If the team had a proven track record of finding quality edge rushers, I could understand the mindset that Ngakoue was easily replaceable.  If Yan were past in his prime, I could see moving on from him.  If the team were flat up against the cap, I get moving on from him.  NONE of those conditions were met.  Given this team's track record of monumental failure at the position, your position is wholly untenable.  If you want the bar for the position to be set higher for this team, you start by keeping productive players like Ngakoue.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!