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Cap space for next season…


Shipley's list of Jags free agents listed by priority to keep around.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/gm-report...ree-agents
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I didn't think of Herndon but I can see why they want to keep him around. I don't want him as the primary nickel but they know what he can do.
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Herndon is good depth. I wouldn't want him out there starting for the long term though. If I could have any player right now from free agency it would be Patrick Peterson. He just finished up a one year deal at $4M with the Vikings. Coming off his 2nd best season statistically per PFF.

He'll be 33 in July though. I would throw a one year deal at him. Maybe sweeten the pot with some incentives but get him in here for maybe $5.5M - $6M on the year. Especially if you're letting Taylor walk away at RT and potentially losing Arden Key to free agency.

Shores up your secondary play for a year opposite of Campbell with Williams playing in a flex role between Peterson's outside spot and nickel spot. It won't fix our pass rushing problems but it'll maybe give us some better opportunities at coverage sacks here and there.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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(02-02-2023, 10:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: Shipley's list of Jags free agents listed by priority to keep around.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/gm-report...ree-agents

I always enjoy Shipley's takes on the Jaguars. I do differ on his opinion of keeping Taylor. I'd rather use that money on someone like Daron Payne. He would significantly help the team's interior pass rush. He's a borderline pro-bowler who is only 26. An interior rotation of Payne, a hopefully improved/healthy Fatukasi and Hamilton would be formidable. I really believe the Jags can afford him after releasing Griffin and Robertson-Harris (tough call, but worth the savings) and re-structuring other players with big salaries.
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(02-02-2023, 04:54 PM)jaglou53 Wrote:
(02-02-2023, 10:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: Shipley's list of Jags free agents listed by priority to keep around.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/gm-report...ree-agents

I always enjoy Shipley's takes on the Jaguars. I do differ on his opinion of keeping Taylor. I'd rather use that money on someone like Daron Payne. He would significantly help the team's interior pass rush. He's a borderline pro-bowler who is only 26. An interior rotation of Payne, a hopefully improved/healthy Fatukasi and Hamilton would be formidable. I really believe the Jags can afford him after releasing Griffin and Robertson-Harris (tough call, but worth the savings) and re-structuring other players with big salaries.

Agreed on Payne.  Would love to sign him although that would be a huge contract.  Not sure we sign anyone this year with a contract as big as he will get.  Him or any of those Egles dlineman would be nice
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https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/what...-arden-key

PFF gives their projections in this article.

Taylor- 4 for 57 and 33.5 guaranteed
Engram: 3 for 38 and 25 guaranteed
Key: 2 for 18.5 and 11.5 guaranteed
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(02-03-2023, 01:13 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/what...-arden-key

PFF gives their projections in this article.

Taylor- 4 for 57 and 33.5 guaranteed
Engram: 3 for 38 and  25 guaranteed
Key: 2 for 18.5 and 11.5 guaranteed

Four years for $57M with $33.5M guaranteed? Holy [BLEEP] [BLEEP]. I mean, I guess? That puts him inside the top 10 I believe. No [BLEEP] way he's a top 10 RT. Would really like to see the PFF grades and whatnot as a whole on the year for that group across the NFL. $14.25M APY? 

Gross. 

Engram for $38M over three years with $25M guaranteed. Honestly. That's a little rich for my blood as well. $12.6M APY? I mean, I can kind of see that I guess. He WAS statistically a pretty good receiving threat from his position group across the NFL. I guess that's fair. 

Key at $18.5M over two years is really high though. Granted. We didn't really use him like a starter, correct? He was more of a rotational player. If I am paying him $9.25M per year he's starting for me on my team somehow. If I have to switch to a base 4 - 3 and kick Walker inside at DT to move Key into the DE position full time to justify it I would do it.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
Reply


(02-03-2023, 01:13 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/what...-arden-key

PFF gives their projections in this article.

Taylor- 4 for 57 and 33.5 guaranteed
Engram: 3 for 38 and  25 guaranteed
Key: 2 for 18.5 and 11.5 guaranteed
They project for Engram a insulting low ball offer like that? Shocking. Lol, pretty much matches exactly what I said.
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(This post was last modified: 02-03-2023, 02:45 PM by Cleatwood. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-03-2023, 01:42 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-03-2023, 01:13 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/what...-arden-key

PFF gives their projections in this article.

Taylor- 4 for 57 and 33.5 guaranteed
Engram: 3 for 38 and  25 guaranteed
Key: 2 for 18.5 and 11.5 guaranteed
They project for Engram a insulting low ball offer like that? Shocking. Lol, pretty much matches exactly what I said.
It's called a projection and not what they may actually sign for. For example, last year, this was Kirks projection:

Three years, $39 million ($13M per year, $22M total guaranteed)

You almost always overpay in FA.

And if you actually read the article, you would see Shipley ended with this:

"Considering Engram's impact on the Jaguars' culture and his connection with Trevor Lawrence, it makes sense for the Jaguars to potentially be willing to spend big for Engram. They would likely do backflips for a deal like PFF projects, but the reality is Engram will get a larger deal"
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(This post was last modified: 02-03-2023, 03:01 PM by IKhan't. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-03-2023, 01:42 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-03-2023, 01:13 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/what...-arden-key

PFF gives their projections in this article.

Taylor- 4 for 57 and 33.5 guaranteed
Engram: 3 for 38 and  25 guaranteed
Key: 2 for 18.5 and 11.5 guaranteed
They project for Engram a insulting low ball offer like that? Shocking. Lol, pretty much matches exactly what I said.

How is that low ball? The Franchise Tag number for TE's this year has been set at $11.345 million. He'd be making more than than a million dollars a year over that number on a 3 year deal. That is more than fair value. He'd be making almost $12.6 million a year with the vast majority guaranteed. I think this gets it done and all parties will be happy.
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(02-03-2023, 01:39 PM)Caldrac Wrote:
(02-03-2023, 01:13 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/what...-arden-key

PFF gives their projections in this article.

Taylor- 4 for 57 and 33.5 guaranteed
Engram: 3 for 38 and  25 guaranteed
Key: 2 for 18.5 and 11.5 guaranteed

Four years for $57M with $33.5M guaranteed? Holy [BLEEP] [BLEEP]. I mean, I guess? That puts him inside the top 10 I believe. No [BLEEP] way he's a top 10 RT. Would really like to see the PFF grades and whatnot as a whole on the year for that group across the NFL. $14.25M APY? 

Gross. 

Engram for $38M over three years with $25M guaranteed. Honestly. That's a little rich for my blood as well. $12.6M APY? I mean, I can kind of see that I guess. He WAS statistically a pretty good receiving threat from his position group across the NFL. I guess that's fair. 

Key at $18.5M over two years is really high though. Granted. We didn't really use him like a starter, correct? He was more of a rotational player. If I am paying him $9.25M per year he's starting for me on my team somehow. If I have to switch to a base 4 - 3 and kick Walker inside at DT to move Key into the DE position full time to justify it I would do it.

I've made this point over and over.  That salary for Taylor might make him the 7th highest paid RT, but in 2024, he'll be the 12th highest paid RT, and in 2025, he'll be the 17th highest paid RT.   And for his entire contract, he'll probably average somewhere around 20th highest paid RT.  RTs are going to be signing new deals every year, and he will be steadily pushed down the list.  He'll start with the 7th or 10th highest pay for a RT, and at the end of his deal he will end up as the 30th or 31st highest paid.  Salaries. Keep. Going. Up.
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(02-03-2023, 03:57 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(02-03-2023, 01:39 PM)Caldrac Wrote: Four years for $57M with $33.5M guaranteed? Holy [BLEEP] [BLEEP]. I mean, I guess? That puts him inside the top 10 I believe. No [BLEEP] way he's a top 10 RT. Would really like to see the PFF grades and whatnot as a whole on the year for that group across the NFL. $14.25M APY? 

Gross. 

Engram for $38M over three years with $25M guaranteed. Honestly. That's a little rich for my blood as well. $12.6M APY? I mean, I can kind of see that I guess. He WAS statistically a pretty good receiving threat from his position group across the NFL. I guess that's fair. 

Key at $18.5M over two years is really high though. Granted. We didn't really use him like a starter, correct? He was more of a rotational player. If I am paying him $9.25M per year he's starting for me on my team somehow. If I have to switch to a base 4 - 3 and kick Walker inside at DT to move Key into the DE position full time to justify it I would do it.

I've made this point over and over.  That salary for Taylor might make him the 7th highest paid RT, but in 2024, he'll be the 12th highest paid RT, and in 2025, he'll be the 17th highest paid RT.   And for his entire contract, he'll probably average somewhere around 20th highest paid RT.  RTs are going to be signing new deals every year, and he will be steadily pushed down the list.  He'll start with the 7th or 10th highest pay for a RT, and at the end of his deal he will end up as the 30th or 31st highest paid.  Salaries. Keep. Going. Up.

That's fine well and good so long as we're talking about someone else having to cut that check. Taylor ain't worth breaking the bank over. And with our cap, I am not slashing through the roster to make that deal happen.
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(02-03-2023, 04:20 PM)Mikey Wrote:
(02-03-2023, 03:57 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: I've made this point over and over.  That salary for Taylor might make him the 7th highest paid RT, but in 2024, he'll be the 12th highest paid RT, and in 2025, he'll be the 17th highest paid RT.   And for his entire contract, he'll probably average somewhere around 20th highest paid RT.  RTs are going to be signing new deals every year, and he will be steadily pushed down the list.  He'll start with the 7th or 10th highest pay for a RT, and at the end of his deal he will end up as the 30th or 31st highest paid.  Salaries. Keep. Going. Up.

That's fine well and good so long as we're talking about someone else having to cut that check. Taylor ain't worth breaking the bank over. And with our cap, I am not slashing through the roster to make that deal happen.

It's not breaking the bank.  It's a new contract, and new contracts are always bigger than old contracts.  

And besides that, we don't have to slash our roster to make it happen.  Our salary cap is very manageable right now.
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(This post was last modified: 02-03-2023, 04:55 PM by Caldrac. Edited 2 times in total.)

(02-03-2023, 04:38 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(02-03-2023, 04:20 PM)Mikey Wrote: That's fine well and good so long as we're talking about someone else having to cut that check. Taylor ain't worth breaking the bank over. And with our cap, I am not slashing through the roster to make that deal happen.

It's not breaking the bank.  It's a new contract, and new contracts are always bigger than old contracts.  

And besides that, we don't have to slash our roster to make it happen.  Our salary cap is very manageable right now.

It's not manageable though. That's why they're in this position now where they have to make these tough decisions. It's business. I get it. I understand contracts, salaries, etc. That's always going to go up. 

With that said. Signing him to that type of money now puts us where in 2024, 2025, etc?

Again, one good year out of four. The good year he had he was primarily a one trick pony. Good in pass protection, not so good in run blocking. The only logical move IMHO is letting him walk. He's just not worth that type of cap hit percentage on this current team's roster.

Especially when you already resigned Cam Robinson last year to a fairly hefty deal at LT and then you already invested a 2nd RD pick in Walker Little just two years ago. 

The intent should be Robinson and Little duking it out for LT, loser moves to LG, which, is probably a little bit easier to transition to than RT. Unless one of those guys can simply get it done over at RT, great. Then that leaves you with really one or two spots to look at for developing in the long haul over the next two years. 

Again, Bartch and Shatley are still concerns at LG. I get it. Serviceable players. That's great. But, you need above average play over there. Scherff is also a stop gap player over at RG. You're also still hoping Fortner can step it up in year two. They're going to need that money over the next two, three years to backfill and develop talent more than likely. 

I just don't trust Taylor on a new deal. Just don't. At least not at that projection.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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I always expect to overpay in FA

I also find it weird that so many fans draw lines in the sand about what they think is acceptable to pay for players when their "acceptable" number is like 9% lower.

LOL - i've been guilty myself though

So- Not pointing any fingers at anyone in the thread.
It's just not our money and we don't yet know what kind of cap space is going to be opened up with cuts and restructures.

Just not worth getting bothered about speculated salaries right now.
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(This post was last modified: 02-04-2023, 01:46 AM by Eric1. Edited 1 time in total.)

For people who are worried about the cap space.

https://twitter.com/marhsim/status/1621581343305109504
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(02-04-2023, 01:46 AM)Eric1 Wrote: For people who are worried about the cap space.

https://twitter.com/marhsim/status/1621581343305109504

They simply pushed it all to this season. That accomplished nothing. They are currently over the cap by $57 million. They restructured everyone last offseason, so that bill is now due. They have no decent starting QB, no way to sign a decent FA QB and they probably won't find one in the draft as they sit at pick #29. They are in a mess.
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(This post was last modified: 02-04-2023, 08:23 AM by The Real Marty. Edited 4 times in total.)

(02-04-2023, 06:03 AM)IKhan't Wrote:
(02-04-2023, 01:46 AM)Eric1 Wrote: For people who are worried about the cap space.

https://twitter.com/marhsim/status/1621581343305109504

They simply pushed it all to this season. That accomplished nothing. They are currently over the cap by $57 million. They restructured everyone last offseason, so that bill is now due. They have no decent starting QB, no way to sign a decent FA QB and they probably won't find one in the draft as they sit at pick #29. They are in a mess.

But it does show that the Jaguars, in spite of being $22 million over the cap right now, can easily create loads of cap space.  

Here's a handy cap calculator.  You can sign players, extend players, and restructure players, and easily get under the cap.  I signed Jawaan Taylor, Evan Engram, and Arden Key, restructured a few guys, and I got under the cap.  Easily.  And I'm still under 2024's projected cap.  It took me less than 5 minutes, and I'm sure I could have done better if I'd exerted just a little effort.  Of course, it's not that simple, but it does show you how it can be done.  

https://overthecap.com/calculator/jacksonville-jaguars

A "simple restructure" can be done unilaterally by the team.  It converts 2023 salary to signing bonus and spreads it over the life of the contract.  So if you want to create, say, $30 million in cap space, you restructure $40 million in salaries.  That's assuming is that the money applied to contracts that had 3 more years to run after 2023.   That sort of restructuring would add $10 million to the cap number for each of the next 3 years, and subtract $30 million from the cap number for 2023.   That's not exactly mortgaging the future.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPnUSX_LXrA

One of Uche's last uploads. A good 20 minute breakdown on Cam Robinson's sloppiness at LT. This continues to show why Little deserves a fair shake at the job in 2023. Just a heads up though. Uche drops a lot of F bombs in this. LOL.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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(02-03-2023, 10:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: I always expect to overpay in FA

I also find it weird that so many fans draw lines in the sand about what they think is acceptable to pay for players when their "acceptable" number is like 9% lower.

LOL  - i've been guilty myself though

So- Not pointing any fingers at anyone in the thread.
It's just not our money and we don't yet know what kind of cap space is going to be opened up with cuts and restructures.

Just not worth getting bothered about speculated salaries right now.

(02-04-2023, 01:46 AM)Eric1 Wrote: For people who are worried about the cap space.

https://twitter.com/marhsim/status/1621581343305109504

(02-04-2023, 08:01 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(02-04-2023, 06:03 AM)IKhan't Wrote: They simply pushed it all to this season. That accomplished nothing. They are currently over the cap by $57 million. They restructured everyone last offseason, so that bill is now due. They have no decent starting QB, no way to sign a decent FA QB and they probably won't find one in the draft as they sit at pick #29. They are in a mess.

But it does show that the Jaguars, in spite of being $22 million over the cap right now, can easily create loads of cap space.  

Here's a handy cap calculator.  You can sign players, extend players, and restructure players, and easily get under the cap.  I signed Jawaan Taylor, Evan Engram, and Arden Key, restructured a few guys, and I got under the cap.  Easily.  And I'm still under 2024's projected cap.  It took me less than 5 minutes, and I'm sure I could have done better if I'd exerted just a little effort.  Of course, it's not that simple, but it does show you how it can be done.  

https://overthecap.com/calculator/jacksonville-jaguars

A "simple restructure" can be done unilaterally by the team.  It converts 2023 salary to signing bonus and spreads it over the life of the contract.  So if you want to create, say, $30 million in cap space, you restructure $40 million in salaries.  That's assuming is that the money applied to contracts that had 3 more years to run after 2023.   That sort of restructuring would add $10 million to the cap number for each of the next 3 years, and subtract $30 million from the cap number for 2023.   That's not exactly mortgaging the future.

SO, basically we're really just saying the NFL plays with "No Cap" activated like franchise mode in Madden and they can just kick the can of debt down the road like our Government and Federal Reserve do?

[Image: giphy.gif]

Well, if that's the case. I am all in. So, let's go!

Let's go and sign:

Javon Hargrave at DI
Jessie Bates III at S
Jamel Dean at CB
Orlando Brown at OT
Josh Jacobs at RB
James Bradeberry at CB
Dalton Schultz at TE
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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