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Stadium renovation design

#21

(05-19-2023, 06:39 PM)MarleyJag Wrote:
(05-19-2023, 06:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote: This has always been the case here.

It's uncanny.

If they were around when Edison invented the light bulb, they would be the ones lamenting the fate of candles.  When indoor plumbing became a thing, these people were the ones missing those walks outdoors.

Yep, very much so. I just hope they’re in the minority when the chips are down.

LOL, yea those people would also be the first and loudest to condemn losing the Jags if they indeed succeeded. they are just unhappy souls that nothing is ever good.  Oh My we have posters like that....
A new broom always sweeps clean.
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#22

(05-19-2023, 06:39 PM)MarleyJag Wrote:
(05-19-2023, 06:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote: This has always been the case here.

It's uncanny.

If they were around when Edison invented the light bulb, they would be the ones lamenting the fate of candles.  When indoor plumbing became a thing, these people were the ones missing those walks outdoors.

Yep, very much so. I just hope they’re in the minority when the chips are down.

They have been so far, fortunately.

I just hope the extended losing and ineptitude hasn't caused irreparable harm in that area, especially since we seem to have the ingredients needed for an extended period of sustained success.

It's not just one subset of people who have always resisted the Jaguars here.

Some powerful people lamented the loss of their influence.

There are college fans of all demographics that resented the loss of coverage their local team gets.

There are those on the lower end of the socio/economic spectrum who think the team doesn't do enough charitable things.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#23

(05-19-2023, 06:48 PM)Jag149 Wrote:
(05-19-2023, 06:39 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: Yep, very much so. I just hope they’re in the minority when the chips are down.

LOL, yea those people would also be the first and loudest to condemn losing the Jags if they indeed succeeded. they are just unhappy souls that nothing is ever good.  Oh My we have posters like that....

In fairness to the posters you reference above (and those who share their mindset) the team hasn't had much success on the field.  Only two winning seasons since 2008, and only 9 winning seasons, and zero championships in the team's history is NOT a good thing.  That said, the answer to that is NOT allowing your NFL team to walk away.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#24

(05-19-2023, 06:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(05-14-2023, 12:39 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: That’s good and I imagine most of the city council would be on board too. The fly in the ointment may be Jacksonville voters as any bond issues would probably need approval in a referendum. Based on comments I read and hear, there is an alarmingly large segment of the population who would be happy to see the Jags move rather than investing any public funds. Hopefully any opposition can be overcome when that comes up.

This has always been the case here.

It's uncanny.

If they were around when Edison invented the light bulb, they would be the ones lamenting the fate of candles.  When indoor plumbing became a thing, these people were the ones missing those walks outdoors.

There are just a lot of people here that resent the fact that Jacksonville is no longer the largest small town in the country,

They hate the fact that a million person city can't stay a backwater town.

They will try to resist that fact as long as they can.
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#25

(05-20-2023, 04:14 AM)Predator Wrote:
(05-19-2023, 06:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote: This has always been the case here.

It's uncanny.

If they were around when Edison invented the light bulb, they would be the ones lamenting the fate of candles.  When indoor plumbing became a thing, these people were the ones missing those walks outdoors.

There are just a lot of people here that resent the fact that Jacksonville is no longer the largest small town in the country,

They hate the fact that a million person city can't stay a backwater town.

They will try to resist that fact as long as they can.

There are plenty of areas surrounding town they can move to to get that small town feeling.  Jacksonville outgrew that tag years ago.  The fact that some still resist the notion that the city grew up is laughable, but I know people who feel that way.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#26

One thing I am curious about is how much revenue a small sales tax increase would bring in to help pay for the stadium. I read an article that said the half cent local sales tax which passed recently would bring in $2 billion for school improvements. If that is an accurate representation of what a small sales tax would bring in, it seems like the stadium could be paid for fairly easily.
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#27

(05-20-2023, 10:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: One thing I am curious about is how much revenue a small sales tax increase would bring in to help pay for the stadium.  I read an article that said the half cent local sales tax which passed recently would bring in $2 billion for school improvements.  If that is an accurate representation of what a small sales tax would bring in, it seems like the stadium could be paid for fairly easily.

The problem with many Jacksonville residents is they treat a half cent sales tax, which would improve their city, as if they’ll go hungry if it’s enacted. Look what the Better Jacksonville Plan accomplished but they whined the whole time.
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#28

(05-20-2023, 11:11 AM)homebiscuit Wrote:
(05-20-2023, 10:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: One thing I am curious about is how much revenue a small sales tax increase would bring in to help pay for the stadium.  I read an article that said the half cent local sales tax which passed recently would bring in $2 billion for school improvements.  If that is an accurate representation of what a small sales tax would bring in, it seems like the stadium could be paid for fairly easily.

The problem with many Jacksonville residents is they treat a half cent sales tax, which would improve their city, as if they’ll go hungry if it’s enacted. Look what the Better Jacksonville Plan accomplished but they whined the whole time.
Screw taxes.
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#29

(05-20-2023, 02:17 PM)Dimson Wrote:
(05-20-2023, 11:11 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: The problem with many Jacksonville residents is they treat a half cent sales tax, which would improve their city, as if they’ll go hungry if it’s enacted. Look what the Better Jacksonville Plan accomplished but they whined the whole time.
Screw taxes.

In general or just for the stadium? If in general, what is the alternative?
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#30
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2023, 06:18 PM by raptor6581.)

(05-20-2023, 02:17 PM)Dimson Wrote:
(05-20-2023, 11:11 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: The problem with many Jacksonville residents is they treat a half cent sales tax, which would improve their city, as if they’ll go hungry if it’s enacted. Look what the Better Jacksonville Plan accomplished but they whined the whole time.
Screw taxes.
Taxes aren't fun, but they're a necessity in any society. They fund our necessities, and even many wants, like a fully renovated, city owned stadium. The alternative to taxes would be massive out of pocket expenses. Everything having a toll like so many roads throughout FL do would be far worse than the couple bucks per check we all pay....

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(05-20-2023, 03:39 PM)rpr52121 Wrote:
(05-20-2023, 02:17 PM)Dimson Wrote: Screw taxes.

In general or just for the stadium? If in general, what is the alternative?
The alternative, as it relates to the stadium, is the jags leaving and fans having to choose to support some other cities team while also watching that revenue stream and job creator slowly deteriorate to nothing. The alternative in general is paying absurd costs on everything the taxes no longer pay for.

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#31

(05-20-2023, 06:16 PM)raptor6581 Wrote:
(05-20-2023, 02:17 PM)Dimson Wrote: Screw taxes.
Taxes aren't fun, but they're a necessity in any society. They fund our necessities, and even many wants, like a fully renovated, city owned stadium. The alternative to taxes would be massive out of pocket expenses. Everything having a toll like so many roads throughout FL do would be far worse than the couple bucks per check we all pay....

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(05-20-2023, 03:39 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: In general or just for the stadium? If in general, what is the alternative?
The alternative, as it relates to the stadium, is the jags leaving and fans having to choose to support some other cities team while also watching that revenue stream and job creator slowly deteriorate to nothing. The alternative in general is paying absurd costs on everything the taxes no longer pay for.

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Taxes are the cost of civilization. Can that cost be wasted, abused and manipulated for the benefit of politicians and organizations? It has since the first taxes were imposed. As they like to say in the computer business, it's not a bug, it's a feature. However, carefully controlled and targeted, a tax as small as a half cent can provide huge benefits. Shad Khan and the Jaguars will most assuredly benefit from such a tax. But in many ways, it benefits the city more. Jaguars fans and non-fans alike.
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#32

The city doesn't need to raise the sales tax to fund the stadium. The reality is, the city has the resources to pay for the stadium already baked into the budget. The problem is that there are many in the city who are NOT fans of the team and don't want to see an evil rich billionaire getting any benefit from taxpayer funding. It's silly and shortsighted, but it is what it is. They somehow equate taxpayer funding for a publicly owned stadium with the rich getting richer, and fail to see the overall benefit the city gains from such endeavers, even after witnessing it firsthand over the past nearly 30 years.

These people believe tax dollars strictly allocated for the sports complex will somehow starve people, leave potholes in the streets, and cause our public education system to crumble, when these dollars were never intended to go for that to begin with.

We've had a local bed tax in place for severaly years. As we expand the offerings around the stadium and throughout Jacksonville, those could be utilized fund the costs of the renovations, as they are already being used to pay for stadium and sports complex upkeep in general. Those dollars are bound to increase exponentially with the new 4 Seasons hotel slated to be built along with other hotels along the riverfront. As that area of downtown around the stadium starts to emerge from the dilapidated dirt lot it is currently, the revenue generated from those bed taxes should rise.

The stadium already gets the bulk of those bed tax revenues as it should. That stadium is a major revenue generator for the city beyond just the Jags games. Whoever is negotiating with the team on behalf of the city will know this, and their goal is going to be making sure the Jaguars kick in their fair share for any project there. Khan has already displayed a willingness to do so, and this should not be a complicated or problematic negotiation. He's already heavily invested in the area, and his goal is to make this succeed. He has shown a willingess to work with the city in the past. I don't worry that the am is suddenly going to pull up stakes and look elsewhere. It's a great negotiating tactic to imply such, but at the end of the day, it's just words.

The funding is there to get this done. Nobody wants to see the city lose its crown jewel for international exposure in the Jaguars. Once we land on a final design and dollar amount, I'm sure the rhetoric will amp up, but when the dust settles, a deal will be hammered out. All sides benefit greatly from making sure that happens.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#33

They should go play in Gainesville for two years and get it done right and quickly. Hour and half drive is not the worst, and the new stadium will be worth the wait. So many advantages to playing there…
"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"
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#34

(05-21-2023, 09:35 AM)Ronster Wrote: They should go play in Gainesville for two years and get it done right and quickly. Hour and half drive is not the worst, and the new stadium will be worth the wait. So many advantages to playing there…

Absolutely not. I am not a fan of this solution. If this was the solution I would vote against it. Price of my vote? Play here, sorry but that is non negotiable. You are welcome to your opinion, but you will have to drag me kicking and screaming. There is a solution other than play elsewhere.
A new broom always sweeps clean.
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#35

(05-21-2023, 09:53 AM)Jag149 Wrote:
(05-21-2023, 09:35 AM)Ronster Wrote: They should go play in Gainesville for two years and get it done right and quickly. Hour and half drive is not the worst, and the new stadium will be worth the wait. So many advantages to playing there…

Absolutely not. I am not a fan of this solution. If this was the solution I would vote against it. Price of my vote? Play here, sorry but that is non negotiable. You are welcome to your opinion, but you will have to drag me kicking and screaming. There is a solution other than play elsewhere.

There is no viable option that financially makes sense. Unless they plan on making a brand new stadium next to the old one, even that is more costly. There is no venue locally that accommodate 70k seats , plus the headaches it would cause. 

What’s your solution?
"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"
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#36

(05-21-2023, 12:08 PM)Ronster Wrote:
(05-21-2023, 09:53 AM)Jag149 Wrote: Absolutely not. I am not a fan of this solution. If this was the solution I would vote against it. Price of my vote? Play here, sorry but that is non negotiable. You are welcome to your opinion, but you will have to drag me kicking and screaming. There is a solution other than play elsewhere.

There is no viable option that financially makes sense. Unless they plan on making a brand new stadium next to the old one, even that is more costly. There is no venue locally that accommodate 70k seats , plus the headaches it would cause. 

What’s your solution?

The Jaguars have literally already presented a potential solution that would renovate the existing stadium (in phases) into something similar to the Hard Rock in Miami and it would NOT displace the team. They play in our stadium throughout phases of construction. Attendance capacity would decrease temporarily. 

That hasn't been taken off the table, so it is still an option.

There are simply other options being discussed, including ones that displace the team while a more complete build-out takes place. 

For those paying close attention, what I seem to be getting from these crumbs of info leaking out from Lamping/Khan is that they could do something in phases if they follow the Miami model and not displace the team 
- OR  -
If they want to go more modern and complete with shade solutions than what exists in Miami - they may need to displace the games for a while. Shadows thrown on the field from a partial roof seem to be considered a flaw and a careful consideration in the Miami model.
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#37

(05-21-2023, 12:26 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-21-2023, 12:08 PM)Ronster Wrote: There is no viable option that financially makes sense. Unless they plan on making a brand new stadium next to the old one, even that is more costly. There is no venue locally that accommodate 70k seats , plus the headaches it would cause. 

What’s your solution?

The Jaguars have literally already presented a potential solution that would renovate the existing stadium (in phases) into something similar to the Hard Rock in Miami and it would NOT displace the team. They play in our stadium throughout phases of construction. Attendance capacity would decrease temporarily. 

That hasn't been taken off the table, so it is still an option.

There are simply other options being discussed, including ones that displace the team while a more complete build-out takes place. 

For those paying close attention, what I seem to be getting from these crumbs of info leaking out from Lamping/Khan is that they could do something in phases if they follow the Miami model and not displace the team 
- OR  -
If they want to go more modern and complete with shade solutions than what exists in Miami - they may need to displace the games for a while. Shadows thrown on the field from a partial roof seem to be considered a flaw and a careful consideration in the Miami model.

Perhaps by design. The Miami stadium casts shade everywhere except the visitor’s bench, which stays in sunlight. The crafty devils.
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#38

if they want our public money then develop the solution that DOES not displace the team. There are numerous ways to do this. (no I am not going to give you a list) Curry who happens to be a Florida alum started this with his lame duck diatribe. I am sure some university team would love to volunteer and get a free face lift in exchange for generating the game day revenue and bed taxes for their city instead of ours. Not to mention after years of hard to watch football they get 2 prime years of Jaguar football.
A new broom always sweeps clean.
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#39

Gene Frenette: Benefit of Jaguars two-year relocation outside Duval is reaching wider audience (yahoo.com)

...Travel inconveniences aside, playing games outside the 904 isn’t nearly as big a deal as the Jaguars and the city reaching an agreement on a stadium renovation. When that happens, it’ll be accompanied by a lease extension that would ensure the Jaguars remaining in Jacksonville through maybe 2050 or beyond.

In the grand scheme of things, that matters a lot more than the Jaguars potentially playing games out of town for two years. Plus, a rebuilt TIAA Bank Field will likely be the centerpiece of a neighborhood radically transformed by projects planned for the Shipyards and Khan’s Four Seasons hotel...
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#40

(05-21-2023, 09:00 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: Gene Frenette: Benefit of Jaguars two-year relocation outside Duval is reaching wider audience (yahoo.com)

...Travel inconveniences aside, playing games outside the 904 isn’t nearly as big a deal as the Jaguars and the city reaching an agreement on a stadium renovation. When that happens, it’ll be accompanied by a lease extension that would ensure the Jaguars remaining in Jacksonville through maybe 2050 or beyond.

In the grand scheme of things, that matters a lot more than the Jaguars potentially playing games out of town for two years. Plus, a rebuilt TIAA Bank Field will likely be the centerpiece of a neighborhood radically transformed by projects planned for the Shipyards and Khan’s Four Seasons hotel...

To him
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