Whatever is more cost-effective.  If a new stadium only costs 1 - 3% more than the renovation, then build it.  Otherwise, I'd renovate in stages.  The bones are still good.

However, trying to get other counties in the metro area to pay via taxes is going to be roughly equivalent to getting Mexico to pay for the wall.

These are just ball park figures based on other recent stadium reno's and builds, but it seems there's about a 400 mil gap between starting fresh and keeping the old bones. for a massive overhaul + roof

(Renov. = 8-900mil. - new build - 1.2-.1.3 billion)

Based on all of the press conferences I've seen on this issue, it seems renovation is the way they are going.  It is seemingly a foregone conclusion.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

To add, it's getting kinda comical.

13 years ago:
Concerned fan - "We need to support the team or they'll leave for London or some other city."
Naysayer - "They're not leaving for London or anywhere else."

11 years ago:
Concerned fan - "Damn, we're losing a home game to London each year for the next 4 years."
Naysayer - "They need the revenue to be viable here for the time being until we sell out our home games. It'll be ok,"

7 years ago:
Concerned fan - "Well I thought it was supposed to be just 4 years, now we're permanently losing that home game?"
Naysayer - "Quit being such a whiner. We're not actually moving to London at least."

Earlier this year:
Concerned fan - "They're talking about 2 games in London now? What the hell is going on?"
Schedule gets release:
Concerned fan - "Whew, at least the 2nd one is an away game. We dodged a bullet for sure."

Within the past couple of weeks:
Goodell speaks on 3rd game in London for same team not being off the table:
Concerned fan - *facepalm*

Outgoing mayor speaks on team potentially needing to play elsewhere for 2 years during stadium renovation:
Concerned fan - "If true, it better not be London."
Naysayer - "Even if it is, the city will have an agreement in place to keep them here."
Concerned fan - "Mmhmm." *eyeroll*


If it were ever actually to occur, everyone would look back on this past 15 years of the team's existence and go "duh, what did you think was happening/going to happen?" is all.

---

To add, it's getting kinda comical.

13 years ago:
Concerned fan - "We need to support the team or they'll leave for London or some other city."
Naysayer - "They're not leaving for London or anywhere else."

11 years ago:
Concerned fan - "Damn, we're losing a home game to London each year for the next 4 years."
Naysayer - "They need the revenue to be viable here for the time being until we sell out our home games. It'll be ok,"

7 years ago:
Concerned fan - "Well I thought it was supposed to be just 4 years, now we're permanently losing that home game?"
Naysayer - "Quit being such a whiner. We're not actually moving to London at least."

Earlier this year:
Concerned fan - "They're talking about 2 games in London now?  What the hell is going on?" 
Schedule gets release:
Concerned fan - "Whew, at least the 2nd one is an away game.  We dodged a bullet for sure."

Within the past couple of weeks:
Goodell speaks on 3rd game in London for same team not being off the table:
Concerned fan - *facepalm*

Outgoing mayor speaks on team potentially needing to play elsewhere for 2 years during stadium renovation:
Concerned fan - "If true, it better not be London."
Naysayer - "Even if it is, the city will have an agreement in place to keep them here."
Concerned fan - "Mmhmm." *eyeroll*


If it were ever actually to occur, everyone would  look back on this past 15 years of the team's existence and go "duh, what did you think was happening/going to happen?" is all.

Fair and valid points. I appreciate the timeline. It sounds like it's all but a foregone conclusion now. They're trying to capture the European market on a more well rounded and permanent basis. Jacksonville would be the flagship franchise. 

I'll make a bold prediction. If the Jaguars win a Superbowl within the next three years of football? I could see them being moved to London to keep it interesting and strong over there. We're not giving them some rundown franchise at that point. You're getting a big name product with big time accomplishments. 

It will probably be rigged as well. Just had to put my tinfoil hat on for this one. Would be a fitting and depressing finale to the chapter of football in Jacksonville. "Here, you're a small market team, we gave you a Superbowl, now, adios!".

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

To add, it's getting kinda comical.

13 years ago:
Concerned fan - "We need to support the team or they'll leave for London or some other city."
Naysayer - "They're not leaving for London or anywhere else."

11 years ago:
Concerned fan - "Damn, we're losing a home game to London each year for the next 4 years."
Naysayer - "They need the revenue to be viable here for the time being until we sell out our home games. It'll be ok,"

7 years ago:
Concerned fan - "Well I thought it was supposed to be just 4 years, now we're permanently losing that home game?"
Naysayer - "Quit being such a whiner. We're not actually moving to London at least."

Earlier this year:
Concerned fan - "They're talking about 2 games in London now?  What the hell is going on?" 
Schedule gets release:
Concerned fan - "Whew, at least the 2nd one is an away game.  We dodged a bullet for sure."

Within the past couple of weeks:
Goodell speaks on 3rd game in London for same team not being off the table:
Concerned fan - *facepalm*

Outgoing mayor speaks on team potentially needing to play elsewhere for 2 years during stadium renovation:
Concerned fan - "If true, it better not be London."
Naysayer - "Even if it is, the city will have an agreement in place to keep them here."
Concerned fan - "Mmhmm." *eyeroll*


If it were ever actually to occur, everyone would  look back on this past 15 years of the team's existence and go "duh, what did you think was happening/going to happen?" is all.

Fair and valid points. I appreciate the timeline. It sounds like it's all but a foregone conclusion now. They're trying to capture the European market on a more well rounded and permanent basis. Jacksonville would be the flagship franchise. 

I'll make a bold prediction. If the Jaguars win a Superbowl within the next three years of football? I could see them being moved to London to keep it interesting and strong over there. We're not giving them some rundown franchise at that point. You're getting a big name product with big time accomplishments. 

It will probably be rigged as well. Just had to put my tinfoil hat on for this one. Would be a fitting and depressing finale to the chapter of football in Jacksonville. "Here, you're a small market team, we gave you a Superbowl, now, adios!".

Wow, that would be the ultimate irony. Trevor being drafted to be the savior of the franchise, and his success ultimately being the catalyst that moves it.

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

To add, it's getting kinda comical.

13 years ago:
Concerned fan - "We need to support the team or they'll leave for London or some other city."
Naysayer - "They're not leaving for London or anywhere else."

11 years ago:
Concerned fan - "Damn, we're losing a home game to London each year for the next 4 years."
Naysayer - "They need the revenue to be viable here for the time being until we sell out our home games. It'll be ok,"

7 years ago:
Concerned fan - "Well I thought it was supposed to be just 4 years, now we're permanently losing that home game?"
Naysayer - "Quit being such a whiner. We're not actually moving to London at least."

Earlier this year:
Concerned fan - "They're talking about 2 games in London now?  What the hell is going on?" 
Schedule gets release:
Concerned fan - "Whew, at least the 2nd one is an away game.  We dodged a bullet for sure."

Within the past couple of weeks:
Goodell speaks on 3rd game in London for same team not being off the table:
Concerned fan - *facepalm*

Outgoing mayor speaks on team potentially needing to play elsewhere for 2 years during stadium renovation:
Concerned fan - "If true, it better not be London."
Naysayer - "Even if it is, the city will have an agreement in place to keep them here."
Concerned fan - "Mmhmm." *eyeroll*


If it were ever actually to occur, everyone would  look back on this past 15 years of the team's existence and go "duh, what did you think was happening/going to happen?" is all.

Fair and valid points. I appreciate the timeline. It sounds like it's all but a foregone conclusion now. They're trying to capture the European market on a more well rounded and permanent basis. Jacksonville would be the flagship franchise. 

I'll make a bold prediction. If the Jaguars win a Superbowl within the next three years of football? I could see them being moved to London to keep it interesting and strong over there. We're not giving them some rundown franchise at that point. You're getting a big name product with big time accomplishments. 

It will probably be rigged as well. Just had to put my tinfoil hat on for this one. Would be a fitting and depressing finale to the chapter of football in Jacksonville. "Here, you're small market team, we gave you a Superbowl, now, adios!".

I was actually in the "Naysayer" or whatever category up until Goodell's comment.  You can put me in the "Concerned Fan" category now and yes I realize I could be reading way too much into it.  To Khan's credit, he appears to be trying to make it work here and they wanted to make it clear before the schedule dropped that they would only do 2 games in London if one of them were an away game.  Perhaps Goodell's comment was simply strategically dropped to help light a fire under local government to acquiesce to Khan's and the league's demands/preferences.

 My questions are:  If these extra weeks in London are for "evaluation" purposes, why would the Jags help further evaluate a market and travel effects and then if it proves worthwhile then cede it to an expansion team or other franchise relocating down the road?  I guess the counter argument would be revenue sharing, but that wouldn't cover it for me by itself considering you're doing all that work for a 1/32 slice of the benefit.  Also, if we are to play elsewhere for 2 years (or however long) during a stadium reno/rebuild and you're already playing 1 or more games in London, why wouldn't London be on the table for your "temporary" home?  And if you go to London full time for a "temporary" period and it's a smashing success, why wouldn't you as the owner consider just claiming that market?  Even if the negotiated cost of leaving were to be in the $1 Billion range, the value of a franchise operating out of London would likely instantly be worth more than a billion more than the Jags are currently worth. As a business man you'd have to consider it.  These are not new questions though.  They have been asked since the onset of playing in London.  I guess what it boils down to is I'd just like to know where the line is because there doesn't appear to be one and there probably isn't one which is why I'm a "Concerned Fan" now.

---

Fair and valid points. I appreciate the timeline. It sounds like it's all but a foregone conclusion now. They're trying to capture the European market on a more well rounded and permanent basis. Jacksonville would be the flagship franchise. 

I'll make a bold prediction. If the Jaguars win a Superbowl within the next three years of football? I could see them being moved to London to keep it interesting and strong over there. We're not giving them some rundown franchise at that point. You're getting a big name product with big time accomplishments. 

It will probably be rigged as well. Just had to put my tinfoil hat on for this one. Would be a fitting and depressing finale to the chapter of football in Jacksonville. "Here, you're small market team, we gave you a Superbowl, now, adios!".

I was actually in the "Naysayer" or whatever category up until Goodell's comment.  You can put me in the "Concerned Fan" category now and yes I realize I could be reading way too much into it.  To Khan's credit, he appears to be trying to make it work here and they wanted to make it clear before the schedule dropped that they would only do 2 games in London if one of them were an away game.  Perhaps Goodell's comment was simply strategically dropped to help light a fire under local government to acquiesce to Khan's and the league's demands/preferences.

 My questions are:  If these extra weeks in London are for "evaluation" purposes, why would the Jags help further evaluate a market and travel effects and then if it proves worthwhile then cede it to an expansion team or other franchise relocating down the road?  I guess the counter argument would be revenue sharing, but that wouldn't cover it for me by itself considering you're doing all that work for a 1/32 slice of the benefit.  Also, if we are to play elsewhere for 2 years (or however long) during a stadium reno/rebuild and you're already playing 1 or more games in London, why wouldn't London be on the table for your "temporary" home?  And if you go to London full time for a "temporary" period and it's a smashing success, why wouldn't you as the owner consider just claiming that market?  Even if the negotiated cost of leaving were to be in the $1 Billion range, the value of a franchise operating out of London would likely instantly be worth more than a billion more than the Jags are currently worth.  As a business man you'd have to consider it.  These are not new questions though.  They have been asked since the onset of playing in London.  I guess what it boils down to is I'd just like to know where the line is because there doesn't appear to be one and there probably isn't one which is why I'm a "Concerned Fan" now.

You're correct to be concerned. It's valid. Also, funny enough. Not too long ago Jaguars twitter announced it's naming rights or branding rights into Ireland. Marketing, etc. Further expanding our foothold in Europe. Just continues to give more weight to these concerns on the scale of uncertainty. 

There's something to these comments as of late. It's probably part real and also part bluff. Khan is a businessman at the end of the day. All this talk about a third game, expanding into Ireland, etc. It's a really strong hand of cards to hold at a meeting table when you're trying to get a deal worked out here in Jacksonville. 

That's a rich man's trick. You play both sides no matter the cost because in the end you're still going to win.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

The owners have the power to override Shad's objections to moving the team. If the League decides they move then nothing will stop it, not even Khan not wanting to leave because of what's already invested here. The Jags have always been on borrowed time here.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The only way the NFL will work in London is to have a running clock that moves forward and add stoppage time at the end of game for any delays that occurred in the game.

---

Funny, this team finally gets its act together and suddenly everyone's got some doom and gloom catastrophe scenario of why they are leaving town imminently.

I'm not buying it.

I think they get a deal done and remain the Jacksonville Jaguars for 3 more decades.

---

One thing left out of the timeline is Kahn trying to buy Wimbley Stadium in what 2018?

I am just waiting for Kahn to respond when he can. The 2 year really makes no sense. It can be done with a little interruption, but nothing on that level. I read somewhere the GA-FLa game generates about 500k in sales tax for just the game day. Removing the team for 2 years removes that cash. Also, there are all the employees and vendors you will just be saying good luck and good luck the next 2 years. Not to mention the flying finger he would be giving the fans. Kinda harsh. We will see how Irsay-like he is. He doesn't seem the type but what do I know.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local...V3GPR4JN4/

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

Apparently Jeff Howe (who writes for the Athletic) got a quote from Lamping today.
(Paywall on that article)

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNFL/statu...17584?s=20

According to Jeff Howe of The Athletic, Lamping said:

"Now it's time to see if other stakeholders in this community share or embrace the vision of the Jaguars and what we're trying to do, not only with the stadium but with the neighborhood around the stadium. The Jaguars have been here for a long time. It's certainly our intention to be here a long time."

Sounds like the Jags are dead set on a renovation and not a new build, and they are ready to present a proposal to the city on how they can share funding. 

I'd imagine we are days or weeks away from some kind of official word on this stuff and where it is likely headed.

---

As a season ticket holder, I hope they don’t play outside of Jacksonville. I wouldn’t drive outside of Jacksonville.

---

I voted for "Build a new stadium next to my house with my own private entrance and viewing suite."

That's on there, right?

---

I voted for "Build a new stadium next to my house with my own private entrance and viewing suite."

That's on there, right?

hold on...

just checking my notes...

---

The city of Jacksonville has announced along with UGA and UF that the FL-GA game in 2024 and 2025 will be in Jacksonville.
Encouraging. They're going to figure out a staged renovation.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/...2_38848198

According to this article, which is just quoting the article in The Athletic, the renovations would start in 2026 and finish in 2027. That's if they choose the option of moving out for 2 years. If they choose to stay in the stadium while it's being renovated, that would add a year and $100,000,000 to the cost.

But to me there are 2 key points if the article is correct: the renovations wouldn't start until 2026, and the deal would solidify the team in Jacksonville for at least several decades.

---

out of towner votes corn, but gonna be challenging to have two similar discussions in distinct threads.

---

I can't believe you guys are happy to pay even more taxes.

who said happy? There can be a complacent acceptance, too. A lot of long term bad comes if the team picks up and leaves. Sometimes you have to weigh whether the minor increase in your property tax or paying a nickel more for that coke is worth keeping property values up, infrastructure being maintained, all the charitable orgs linked to players and the team, etc.

---

I voted for "Build a new stadium next to my house with my own private entrance and viewing suite."

That's on there, right?

Just buy one of those nice houses on Talleyrand and your wish will be partially fulfilled.  You could have a viewing suite to run down shipyards and drug deals.

---

The popular suggestions based on past negotiations are a .5 Cent increase in local sales tax and a hotel tax which affects tourists and not locals. 

I find neither difficult to swallow.

Exactly. That's why I wouldn't have an issue with it. It's not enough to move the needle for me. Especially in this current economy where I am getting gouged in more dire areas at the moment. 

Eating a barely noticeable sales tax to keep a team and owner here in my city that provides jobs, entertainment and a potential platform for further development with more job opportunities is a no brainer for me.

I don't think people realize how much an NFL team provides to a local area. It's not just concessions and alcohol sales during gameday. There's parking, there's advertising, there's social media teams, sales teams, equipment teams, boosters, trainers, travel agency, etc.

All of that is encompassed underneath the Jaguar umbrella. Not to mention the local charity stuff and community work these guys get involved in. It's a true privilege having an NFL team. This should not be taken lightly nor for granted. Especially in this market.

get the flip outta my head, dude.

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