Nope he's not worth two top ten picks. Lawrence is worth 8 top 10 picks.

That's just hyperbole that makes you look like you're his wife.

To the NFL he's not even a top 10 QB.

we got two first rounders for Ramsay because he was a top THREE CB.

Actually most analysts and people who actually know what they're looking at, and other current players, absolutely view him as a top 10 QB.

It's the Richard Shermans of the broadcasting world who don't.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

That's just hyperbole that makes you look like you're his wife.

To the NFL he's not even a top 10 QB.

we got two first rounders for Ramsay because he was a top THREE CB.

Actually most analysts and people who actually know what they're looking at, and other current players, absolutely view him as a top 10 QB.

It's the Richard Shermans of the broadcasting world who don't.

Based on his college career?

Because everyone just seems to make excuses for him because they had crowned him generational before he got to the league.

Just saying.. his stats say he's 12th to 18th best in the league. Based on his actual play.

---

Current Players:
Extend Allen at OLB, Extend Ridley at WR and Cleveland at LG/Swing OT.
Restructure Williams at CB.
Release Jenkins at SS, Scherff at RG, Robinson at LT, Fatukasi at DT and Zay Jones at WR.

Free Agency:
Sign Christian Wikins at DT, Sign Leonard Williams at DT.
Sign Kevin Dotson at G, Sign Robert Hunt at G, Sign Lloyd Cushenberry at C.

Draft:
17th overall pick - Taliese Fuaga - OT/OG
48th overall pick - Jackson Powers-Johnson - C
97th overall pick - Braden Fiske - DT
115th overall pick - Devontez Walker - WR
117th overall pick - Mohamed Kamara - EDGE
154th overall pick - Javon Solomon - EDGE
179th overall pick - Hayden Hatten - WR
211th overall pick - Logan Lee - DT
237th overall pick - Steven Jones - OG

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Current Players:
Extend Allen at OLB, Extend Ridley at WR and Cleveland at LG/Swing OT.
Restructure Williams at CB.
Release Jenkins at SS, Scherff at RG, Robinson at LT, Fatukasi at DT and Zay Jones at WR.

Free Agency:
Sign Christian Wikins at DT, Sign Leonard Williams at DT.
Sign Kevin Dotson at G, Sign Robert Hunt at G, Sign Lloyd Cushenberry at C.

Draft:
17th overall pick - Taliese Fuaga - OT/OG
48th overall pick - Jackson Powers-Johnson - C
97th overall pick - Braden Fiske - DT
115th overall pick - Devontez Walker - WR
117th overall pick - Mohamed Kamara - EDGE
154th overall pick - Javon Solomon - EDGE
179th overall pick - Hayden Hatten - WR
211th overall pick - Logan Lee - DT
237th overall pick - Steven Jones - OG

This would be great, but idk where we're getting that kind of money after extending those other players even with the cuts

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Current Players:
Extend Allen at OLB, Extend Ridley at WR and Cleveland at LG/Swing OT.
Restructure Williams at CB.
Release Jenkins at SS, Scherff at RG, Robinson at LT, Fatukasi at DT and Zay Jones at WR.

Free Agency:
Sign Christian Wikins at DT, Sign Leonard Williams at DT.
Sign Kevin Dotson at G, Sign Robert Hunt at G, Sign Lloyd Cushenberry at C.

Draft:
17th overall pick - Taliese Fuaga - OT/OG
48th overall pick - Jackson Powers-Johnson - C
97th overall pick - Braden Fiske - DT
115th overall pick - Devontez Walker - WR
117th overall pick - Mohamed Kamara - EDGE
154th overall pick - Javon Solomon - EDGE
179th overall pick - Hayden Hatten - WR
211th overall pick - Logan Lee - DT
237th overall pick - Steven Jones - OG

This would be great, but idk where we're getting that kind of money after extending those other players even with the cuts

Yeah. Realistically I wouldn't think we would but I would think you at least pull three of those names out of that group. I would probably go Leonard Williams over Christian Wilkins (with us hopefully landing Fiske in RD3 along with Hamilton returning stronger in 2024) and then I would want Hunt at RG and Cushenberry at C. 

With the rest of my choices in the draft, we're covered. Fuaga is a starting caliber RT or G as a rookie. Powers-Johnson is a back-up Center as a rookie with him replacing Cushenberry within a year or two but he can also get some work in at G. Walker and Hatten at WR give me the tall targets with production I am looking for. Kamara and Solomon give me the edge rushers I need with the production I am looking for.

Lee and Jones in the 7th RD are long shots to make the roster but they're both relatively clean, consistent and reliable football players. Jones is a [BLEEP] whopper at 340 on the Ducks offensive line. Big RG. Lee is a good looking, lean DT that can hold the point of attack more often that not out of Iowa.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Nope he's not worth two top ten picks. Lawrence is worth 8 top 10 picks.

That's just hyperbole that makes you look like you're his wife.

To the NFL he's not even a top 10 QB.

we got two first rounders for Ramsay because he was a top THREE CB.

His EPA rating with the horrible OL puts him 13th in the league.
His EPA rating when factoring the snaps of horrible OL play puts him at 3rd in the league.

There are valid reasons why most of the NFL universe view him as a franchise QB with a few issues to sort out - hampered by a bad line. 

Are you calling half a dozen former NFL QBs with big broadcasting jobs and another half dozen former NFL HC's in similar positions "his wife?" 

It is telling that 99% of the biggest Lawrence detractors all have no recommendation beyond keeping him when pressed on what they'll do about "how bad he is." 

The kid makes some dumb decisions at times that he needs to grow out of and fast. That's fair. 
But they pale in comparison to the other factors holding him back. They all appear fixable to me.  He also played through 4 significant injuries this sesason behind a ridiculously bad line. If that last sentence is just excuses to you, you should reevaluate your definition of excuses vs reasons. 

---

On topic - 
Despite already giving the long winded version on the thread topic - I think a brief overview is good perspective here:

OFFENSE:
Fix the OL and have a top ten offense - EASILY
Abandoning the limitation of OL selections to those with ZBS traits will need to be part of the equation

DEFENSE:
This one is more tricky with a new DC and staff incoming, but :
Add a interior pass rusher and a third edge to rotate + a quality nickel and solid competition at SS

Should be a solid-mid-tier or better defense with those adds - good enough to slug it out with the tinhorns for the division

---

Very interesting. Not as crazy as some may think  You get a quarterback with amazing talent on a rookie contract. Won't have to worry about breaking the bank for Trevor after next season and will be able to afford Josh Allen without any problem. Ideally you could get either Alt or Fashanu with pick 9 and then Fuaga at 17. Harrison could stay at right tackle with the guards being Fuaga and Kevin Dotson, the top free agent guard. There is no longer a need for Cam Robinson  so you save a lot more money and add free agent center Lloyd Cushenberry. This line has the potential to be one of the best in the league once they jell as a unit. 

I'd deviate slightly in the draft by taking a receiver in round 2 to replace Ridley. The WR group is the deepest in this draft and an adequate replacement for Ridley will not be hard to find at that spot. Plus, you save even more cap space by not having to pay Ridley in the neighborhood of $15-20 million per year. Not worth the risk in my opinion for someone who often wasn't on the same page as Trevor and has a history of  "emotional/behavioral" concerns.

I'd then take the nose tackle in round 3 (Compensatory pick). Finally, I'm signing free agent pass rusher Bryce Huff from the Jets. He is similar in many ways to Yannick Ngokwoe in that he is not good at stopping the run. He will be utilized as a DPR with Walker moving to the inside on these obvious passing downs. His cost won't be outrageous, due to his inability to be used on running downs. 

As far as the coaching change, Slowik will definitely be a hot commodity given the success he had with Stroud. I do like Pederson, but his stock did drop this season due to poor decision making on too many occasions. Surprised you didn't get rid of Baalke. He'd definitely be gone for me. 

Your scenario is very risky and while I'm not ready to give up on Trevor yet, I do see the positives of such a move and wouldn't hate it in the .0001 % chance it actually happened!

There's nothing interesting about it, it's brain dead and stupid..

Why would the Bears give up two top 10 picks, one being #1 overall (and another 2nd round pick on top of the two top 1sts) if Lawrence isn't any good (like some claim around here)? They would then have to sign him to a new contract as well. Why wouldn't they just take the "amazing talent on a rookie contract" and build the team around him with those other high picks?

The Bears would do this for the same reason that the Broncos traded two first rounders and two second rounders plus Noah Fant to Seattle to get Russelll Wilson AND the Browns traded THREE 1st round picks to the Texans to get DeShawn Watson. On top of that, both these quarterbacks (each having their own question marks) were given blockbuster contracts with much of the money guaranteed ( in Watson's case all $230 million). 

All it takes in cland's scenario is one more " brain dead and stupid" owner to make this deal. Not like there haven't been several precedents of bizarre trades by crazy owners/general managers!

---

That's just hyperbole that makes you look like you're his wife.

To the NFL he's not even a top 10 QB.

we got two first rounders for Ramsay because he was a top THREE CB.

His EPA rating with the horrible OL puts him 13th in the league.
His EPA rating when factoring the snaps of horrible OL play puts him at 3rd in the league.

There are valid reasons why most of the NFL universe view him as a franchise QB with a few issues to sort out - hampered by a bad line. 

Are you calling half a dozen former NFL QBs with big broadcasting jobs and another half dozen former NFL HC's in similar positions "his wife?" 

It is telling that 99% of the biggest Lawrence detractors all have no recommendation beyond keeping him when pressed on what they'll do about "how bad he is." 

The kid makes some dumb decisions at times that he needs to grow out of and fast. That's fair. 
But they pale in comparison to the other factors holding him back. They all appear fixable to me.  He also played through 4 significant injuries this sesason behind a ridiculously bad line. If that last sentence is just excuses to you, you should reevaluate your definition of excuses vs reasons. 

---

On topic - 
Despite already giving the long winded version on the thread topic - I think a brief overview is good perspective here:

OFFENSE:
Fix the OL and have a top ten offense - EASILY
Abandoning the limitation of OL selections to those with ZBS traits will need to be part of the equation

DEFENSE:
This one is more tricky with a new DC and staff incoming, but :
Add a interior pass rusher and a third edge to rotate + a quality nickel and solid competition at SS

Should be a solid-mid-tier or better defense with those adds - good enough to slug it out with the tinhorns for the division

The defensive stance people take when others dare tell them that Lawrence isn't the chosen one is just staggering to me.

He has issues. He's young, but he's played 3 years of college ball and now 3 years of NFL ball. He hasn't corrected his issues.

I've said it before give him a top 10 line he will have a fantastic season.

But a generational QB would still be successful. He's just normal. Which is fine.

But stop thinking he will ever be Mahomes or Brady.. or even Aikman or Young.

EDIT: the 49ers have like the 20th ranked offensive line and they are going to the superbowl. Is Brock Purdy that much better? That's sad for Trevor

---

His EPA rating with the horrible OL puts him 13th in the league.
His EPA rating when factoring the snaps of horrible OL play puts him at 3rd in the league.

There are valid reasons why most of the NFL universe view him as a franchise QB with a few issues to sort out - hampered by a bad line. 

Are you calling half a dozen former NFL QBs with big broadcasting jobs and another half dozen former NFL HC's in similar positions "his wife?" 

It is telling that 99% of the biggest Lawrence detractors all have no recommendation beyond keeping him when pressed on what they'll do about "how bad he is." 

The kid makes some dumb decisions at times that he needs to grow out of and fast. That's fair. 
But they pale in comparison to the other factors holding him back. They all appear fixable to me.  He also played through 4 significant injuries this sesason behind a ridiculously bad line. If that last sentence is just excuses to you, you should reevaluate your definition of excuses vs reasons. 

---

On topic - 
Despite already giving the long winded version on the thread topic - I think a brief overview is good perspective here:

OFFENSE:
Fix the OL and have a top ten offense - EASILY
Abandoning the limitation of OL selections to those with ZBS traits will need to be part of the equation

DEFENSE:
This one is more tricky with a new DC and staff incoming, but :
Add a interior pass rusher and a third edge to rotate + a quality nickel and solid competition at SS

Should be a solid-mid-tier or better defense with those adds - good enough to slug it out with the tinhorns for the division

The defensive stance people take when others dare tell them that Lawrence isn't the chosen one is just staggering to me.

He has issues. He's young, but he's played 3 years of college ball and now 3 years of NFL ball. He hasn't corrected his issues.

I've said it before give him a top 10 line he will have a fantastic season.

But a generational QB would still be successful. He's just normal. Which is fine.

But stop thinking he will ever be Mahomes or Brady.. or even Aikman or Young.

EDIT: the 49ers have like the 20th ranked offensive line and they are going to the superbowl. Is Brock Purdy that much better? That's sad for Trevor

Nah

You're just pinning [BLEEP] on TL that is affected by line play and other variables;es and weakly trying to say other successful QBs still perform despite similar issues.

Trevor performed despite his issues enough to warrant the efficiency ratings I've laid out that you are completely ignoring with your unfounded conjecture. 

The SF line through the first 10 weeks this year had a win rate (pass and rush combined) of 61.4% - Jags were 55% and during that stretch we won 8 games!!  What do you think happened to those numbers in the weeks to follow??
Enlighten us. 

The PFF overall line score at that time (1o weeks) for SF was +.81 (only 16 teams were in the + side) 
The Jags score at that time was negative - 4.78 over 5 whole points lower on a scale that runs from -9 to +7 league wide! 

Your argument about SF's line is complete and utter hogwash. 
SF's center finished with a 63.9 grade - ours with a 44.3
SF rushing totaled 2389 yards
Jags totaled 1646 yards 
What are you even trying to compare?? 

Trevor doesn't need a top ten line. He needs a functional line. 
Bring this one from ~30th up to 18th and he'll produce enough to put your straw-grasping gripes to bed. 

And for the love of all things holy, stop talking about his college tape. Gimme a [BLEEP] break. No one cares.

---

The defensive stance people take when others dare tell them that Lawrence isn't the chosen one is just staggering to me.

He has issues. He's young, but he's played 3 years of college ball and now 3 years of NFL ball. He hasn't corrected his issues.

I've said it before give him a top 10 line he will have a fantastic season.

But a generational QB would still be successful. He's just normal. Which is fine.

But stop thinking he will ever be Mahomes or Brady.. or even Aikman or Young.

EDIT: the 49ers have like the 20th ranked offensive line and they are going to the superbowl. Is Brock Purdy that much better? That's sad for Trevor

Nah

You're just pinning [BLEEP] on TL that is affected by line play and other variables;es and weakly trying to say other successful QBs still perform despite similar issues.

Trevor performed despite his issues enough to warrant the efficiency ratings I've laid out that you are completely ignoring with your unfounded conjecture. 

The SF line through the first 10 weeks this year had a win rate (pass and rush combined) of 61.4% - Jags were 55% and during that stretch we won 8 games!!  What do you think happened to those numbers in the weeks to follow??
Enlighten us. 

The PFF overall line score at that time (1o weeks) for SF was +.81 (only 16 teams were in the + side) 
The Jags score at that time was negative - 4.78 over 5 whole points lower on a scale that runs from -9 to +7 league wide! 

Your argument about SF's line is complete and utter hogwash. 

Trevor doesn't need a top ten line. He needs a functional line. 
Bring this one from ~30th up to 18th and he'll produce enough to put your straw-grasping gripes to bed. 

And for the love of all things holy, stop talking about his college tape. Gimme a [BLEEP] break. No one cares.

So show me a stat that doesn't have the 49ers line as one of the worst in the league. Which means 20th or below

---

Nah

You're just pinning [BLEEP] on TL that is affected by line play and other variables;es and weakly trying to say other successful QBs still perform despite similar issues.

Trevor performed despite his issues enough to warrant the efficiency ratings I've laid out that you are completely ignoring with your unfounded conjecture. 

The SF line through the first 10 weeks this year had a win rate (pass and rush combined) of 61.4% - Jags were 55% and during that stretch we won 8 games!!  What do you think happened to those numbers in the weeks to follow??
Enlighten us. 

The PFF overall line score at that time (1o weeks) for SF was +.81 (only 16 teams were in the + side) 
The Jags score at that time was negative - 4.78 over 5 whole points lower on a scale that runs from -9 to +7 league wide! 

Your argument about SF's line is complete and utter hogwash. 

Trevor doesn't need a top ten line. He needs a functional line. 
Bring this one from ~30th up to 18th and he'll produce enough to put your straw-grasping gripes to bed. 

And for the love of all things holy, stop talking about his college tape. Gimme a [BLEEP] break. No one cares.

So show me a stat that doesn't have the 49ers line as one of the worst in the league. Which means 20th or below

I JUST DID!!! LOL

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So show me a stat that doesn't have the 49ers line as one of the worst in the league. Which means 20th or below

I JUST DID!!! LOL

You threw stats out there. Give me the page with their rankings. I bet that the 49ers will be in the bottom 12

---

Nah

You're just pinning [BLEEP] on TL that is affected by line play and other variables;es and weakly trying to say other successful QBs still perform despite similar issues.

Trevor performed despite his issues enough to warrant the efficiency ratings I've laid out that you are completely ignoring with your unfounded conjecture. 

The SF line through the first 10 weeks this year had a win rate (pass and rush combined) of 61.4% - Jags were 55% and during that stretch we won 8 games!!  What do you think happened to those numbers in the weeks to follow??
Enlighten us. 

The PFF overall line score at that time (1o weeks) for SF was +.81 (only 16 teams were in the + side) 
The Jags score at that time was negative - 4.78 over 5 whole points lower on a scale that runs from -9 to +7 league wide! 

Your argument about SF's line is complete and utter hogwash. 

Trevor doesn't need a top ten line. He needs a functional line. 
Bring this one from ~30th up to 18th and he'll produce enough to put your straw-grasping gripes to bed. 

And for the love of all things holy, stop talking about his college tape. Gimme a [BLEEP] break. No one cares.

So show me a stat that doesn't have the 49ers line as one of the worst in the league. Which means 20th or below

Are you saying the 49ers have one of the worst dlines in the league?

---

So show me a stat that doesn't have the 49ers line as one of the worst in the league. Which means 20th or below

Are you saying the 49ers have one of the worst dlines in the league?

Offensive line, my friend.

---

I JUST DID!!! LOL

You threw stats out there. Give me the page with their rankings. I bet that the 49ers will be in the bottom 12

PFF has them 20th, Jags are 28th.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I JUST DID!!! LOL

You threw stats out there. Give me the page with their rankings. I bet that the 49ers will be in the bottom 12

You are free to purchase a PFF subscription if you wish or search for the free leak yourself. 

I'm giving you real information and you are casting it aside because it doesn't support your weak [BLEEP] argument. 
That's not my problem.

---

You threw stats out there. Give me the page with their rankings. I bet that the 49ers will be in the bottom 12

You are free to purchase a PFF subscription if you wish or search for the free leak yourself. 

I'm giving you real information and you are casting it aside because it doesn't support your weak [BLEEP] argument. 
That's not my problem.

Here is your coveted Brock Purdy and Trevor Lawrence efficiency comparison when figuring OL play into the equation
Looks like they are not only comparable - but both are top 3

What's the biggest difference in these two QBs 2023 season with protection removed in this measurement? 

The niners ran the ball for 700 more yards than the Jags.

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https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1...22450?s=20

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In a perfect world..

Resign Allen
Restructure Cam Robinson
Resign Cleveland
Cut Scherf
Sign top FA G/C
Resign Ridley after the designated date to avoid 2nd round pick loss.

Draft DT/WR Rounds 1 and 2. Take the better player in round 1, take the leftover need in Rd2

3-5
G (to compete with Cleveland
DB (To replace Herndon)
T (to eventually replace Cam/depth

---

You are free to purchase a PFF subscription if you wish or search for the free leak yourself. 

I'm giving you real information and you are casting it aside because it doesn't support your weak [BLEEP] argument. 
That's not my problem.

Here is your coveted Brock Purdy and Trevor Lawrence efficiency comparison when figuring OL play into the equation
Looks like they are not only comparable - but both are top 3

What's the biggest difference in these two QBs 2023 season with protection removed in this measurement? 

The niners ran the ball for 700 more yards than the Jags.

---

https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1...22450?s=20

I really like this stat because it supports what most of us have believed regarding Trevor Lawrence after his 3 years in the NFL. To sum it up (in my opinion):

1. He is a very talented quarterback capable of taking the Jaguars to the playoffs for several years.

2. The terrible offensive line has greatly compromised his ability to do this, especially when injured and not close to 100%

3. Once the offensive line is sufficiently addressed, Trevor's performance will return to the level of the 2nd half of the 2022-23 season.

4. Finally, he definitely has some flaws which need to be corrected. The obvious one is unforced turnovers- especially fumbles. He also needs to be more consistent. 
 While not making excuses for these weaknesses, I believe it would be difficult to name many quarterbacks who would be able to overcome such terrible offensive 
 line play- especially when they dealing with pretty significant injuries.

---

For those that still question Lawrence, he took over a 1 win franchise and went on to win 20 regular-season games and 1 post-season game.

Back to back 4,000 yard seasons
55 total Touchdowns over the last 2 seasons
17 regular-season wins over the last 2 years
1st place in division from week 1 to week 17 in 2023
Back to back seasons of 8 wins or more
1st place in division from week 2,3,17 in 2022
A division crown (doesn’t happen often around here)
Made Pro Bowl
Pro Bowl alternate
MVP candidate
New Stadium in the works

*12,734 total yards in 3 years - most in Jaguars History over a 3 year span.

He’s a great ambassador for this city and this franchise. No off the field stuff. I could argue that he’s done all of this with below average rosters and coaching change that could have went a lot worse than it turned out.

Trevor is 24 years old with tons of great football ahead.

I could always rehash guys like Blaine Jabbert, Brian Leftwich, Blake Bottles, Trent Edwards, David Jerrard, Cody Kessler. Lawrence is more of a pure QB than any of those dudes.

You can win a Super Bowl with Trevor Lawrence. That’s the most important aspect of his game. He can make any throw on the football field and can hurt you with his legs. Appears to be a great teammate, and has played hurt many games.

I can live with his mistakes.

And for anyone that says “the 2nd half of 2022” - don’t forget he was 2-1 heading into week 4 of that 2022 playoff season. *tied for the division lead

---