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Zay Jones...Do you bring him back in 2024

#21

(02-06-2024, 09:48 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 09:42 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: If we get a deal done with Allen we could still tag Ridley.  That would be the ideal situation unless we go get Evans

Right. But we'd still lose the 2nd is all I'm saying. The only way to keep both Ridley and our 2nd would be to sign him after FA starts and that's not happening
If we tag Ridley we get to keep our 2nd.  Still have a month to get a deal done with Allen
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#22

Washington and Cooks need expanded roles.

Zay can go.
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#23

If not the tag and If Baalke was smart and we wanted to keep him and Ridley wanted to be here they would work out an extension and sign it the minute the free agency starts that way the team he is going to be on can keep the 2nd. If you are going to stay with a team you would want that team as strong as possible.
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#24

(02-06-2024, 09:51 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 09:48 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: Right. But we'd still lose the 2nd is all I'm saying. The only way to keep both Ridley and our 2nd would be to sign him after FA starts and that's not happening
If we tag Ridley we get to keep our 2nd.  Still have a month to get a deal done with Allen

I must have missed that. Was that confirmed?
IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS
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#25

(02-06-2024, 09:55 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 09:51 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: If we tag Ridley we get to keep our 2nd.  Still have a month to get a deal done with Allen

I must have missed that. Was that confirmed?

Not that I've found anywhere, it's speculative. I can't imagine teams would allow that loophole to exist after other teams got bit by it.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#26

(02-06-2024, 10:02 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 09:55 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: I must have missed that. Was that confirmed?

Not that I've found anywhere, it's speculative. I can't imagine teams would allow that loophole to exist after other teams got bit by it.

They lose their 2nd RD pick from my understanding, if, and ONLY if, they determine and decide that he's worth extending contract wise prior to March 6th or 13th (Whenever free agency starts, that constitutes the beginning of the NFL Calendar Year).

They're losing a 3rd RD pick regardless I believe. Whether they sign him or not once free agency starts. We won't know anything really until Baalke gets the ball moving with Josh Allen's situation. 

Also, trying to remain on topic since the thread is about Zay Jones on my end. I think the $4.4M they can save, in addition to Agnew I think being cut or already free to go, that frees up another $4M I believe in 2024. There's a good chance they keep Zay Jones on the roster. 

You have Kirk coming back from injury and surgery. We have no clue what they're going to do with Ridley. You have two rookies entering year two in 2024 between Washington and Cooks, and then that leaves Tim Jones. Really don't have many alternatives on the roster.

Zay is more than likely safe. I would say he's safer than the likes of Reyshawn Jenkins, Brandon Scherff and Cam Robinson at this point. We just don't have the depth and we can't enter March and April looking like a big block of Swiss Cheese with too many holes to fill.
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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#27

(02-06-2024, 10:07 AM)Caldrac Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 10:02 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Not that I've found anywhere, it's speculative. I can't imagine teams would allow that loophole to exist after other teams got bit by it.

They lose their 2nd RD pick from my understanding, if, and ONLY if, they determine and decide that he's worth extending contract wise prior to March 6th or 13th (Whenever free agency starts, that constitutes the beginning of the NFL Calendar Year).

They're losing a 3rd RD pick regardless I believe. Whether they sign him or not once free agency starts. We won't know anything really until Baalke gets the ball moving with Josh Allen's situation. 

Also, trying to remain on topic since the thread is about Zay Jones on my end. I think the $4.4M they can save, in addition to Agnew I think being cut or already free to go, that frees up another $4M I believe in 2024. There's a good chance they keep Zay Jones on the roster. 

You have Kirk coming back from injury and surgery. We have no clue what they're going to do with Ridley. You have two rookies entering year two in 2024 between Washington and Cooks, and then that leaves Tim Jones. Really don't have many alternatives on the roster.

Zay is more than likely safe. I would say he's safer than the likes of Reyshawn Jenkins, Brandon Scherff and Cam Robinson at this point. We just don't have the depth and we can't enter March and April looking like a big block of Swiss Cheese with too many holes to fill.

The question was if the Franchise Tag for Ridley costs the 2nd or is still just the 3rd. No one has the answer because the answer is in the trade language and it hasn't been released (to my knowledge).
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#28

(02-05-2024, 04:04 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote: The receiving room is light, but if they tag Ridley I'd say no.    I actually want the Jags to get younger at WR surprisingly, and even though they are also losing Agnew...I just feel that saving on the WR spot, and hitting a home run with the WR we pick in the draft...is the smarter solution.

I like Zay a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT.   I'd have him on the team for less $$$ for sure for WR depth.

But if we're planning for Trevor's main targets to be...

Cristian
Calvin
Rookie
TE Group
ETN
Parker Washington

Do we bring back Zay for WR depth?   Is he going to have the speed burst he had prior to his injury?   Will he STAY healthy?

This is one of those...save a few million deals that I think could have the $$$ moved to other positions.

This is a really tough call. Costs an extra $4m to keep him, basically. I don't know that the savings are enough to say beyond a shadow of a doubt "he gone", but the string of injuries this season give me pause. Along with that, if we commit money to Rid in addition to what we are already spending on Kirk and Engram, it's an odd man out type of situation. I think most of us expected Zay's deal to really be a two-year commitment when it was signed, and the structure gives us a relatively cheap out if we move on.

I think it all hinges on Ridley - if we keep him, we move on from Zay. We can look to guys like Cooks and Tim Jones to show development or contribute in spells. If we let Rid go, Zay remains for one more season.
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#29

(02-06-2024, 09:55 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 09:51 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: If we tag Ridley we get to keep our 2nd.  Still have a month to get a deal done with Allen

I must have missed that. Was that confirmed?

I have literally heard beat reporters claim both eventualities on that topic.
Tag = 3rd rounder
tag = 2nd rounder

No idea which is accurate at this point.

However - I doubt the tag is going to be available unless it is the transition tag. 

Seems they'll need to franchise  tag Allen while they haggle a drawn out negotiation with his camp.
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#30
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2024, 07:39 PM by wg171. Edited 3 times in total.)

Signed players I would cut…

Zay Jones

Cam Robinson
Brandon Scherff
Darious Williams
Rayshawn Jenkins
Foley Fatukasi

Restructure…
Christian Kirk

Restructure and extend…
Foye Oluokun

I hate creating holes but I think this team needs to be quite active in free agency and Baalke is horrible with mid/low round picks.
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#31

(02-06-2024, 04:17 PM)wg171 Wrote: Signed players I would cut…

Zay Jones

Cam Robinson
Brandon Scherff
Darious Williams
Rayshawn Jenkins
Foley Fatukasi

Restructure…
Christian Kirk

Restructure and extend…
Foye Oluoku

I hate creating holes but I think this team needs to be quite active in free agency and Baalke is horrible with mid/low round picks.

You want to cut two of our starting O-Line when it is already one of the weakest in the league?
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#32

(02-06-2024, 04:44 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 04:17 PM)wg171 Wrote: Signed players I would cut…

Zay Jones

Cam Robinson
Brandon Scherff
Darious Williams
Rayshawn Jenkins
Foley Fatukasi

Restructure…
Christian Kirk

Restructure and extend…
Foye Oluoku

I hate creating holes but I think this team needs to be quite active in free agency and Baalke is horrible with mid/low round picks.

You want to cut two of our starting O-Line when it is already one of the weakest in the league?

Honestly, I’d love to see four new starters with LG probably being a stop gap for a year.
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#33

(02-06-2024, 04:49 PM)wg171 Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 04:44 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: You want to cut two of our starting O-Line when it is already one of the weakest in the league?

Honestly, I’d love to see four new starters with LG probably being a stop gap for a year.

I don't know if that is ideal. The chances of us addressing C, RG, and LG with viable, dependable starters in FA is pretty slim. I also don't want to rely on the draft for that. We have to protect Trevor and replacing 4 starters on the line just seems iffy, especially when you're just factoring in replacing starters and leaving us with the same garbage as depth.

I would like to see us restructure Cam and keep him at LT this year and keep Scherff for one more year as well. I do want to still sign 1 or 2 in FA and draft and hope to replace them next year.
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#34
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2024, 05:01 PM by wg171. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-06-2024, 04:52 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 04:49 PM)wg171 Wrote: Honestly, I’d love to see four new starters with LG probably being a stop gap for a year.

I don't know if that is ideal. The chances of us addressing C, RG, and LG with viable, dependable starters in FA is pretty slim. I also don't want to rely on the draft for that. We have to protect Trevor and replacing 4 starters on the line just seems iffy, especially when you're just factoring in replacing starters and leaving us with the same garbage as depth.

I would like to see us restructure Cam and keep him at LT this year and keep Scherff for one more year as well. I do want to still sign 1 or 2 in FA and draft and hope to replace them next year.

Trying to free up money with cuts.

LT - Harrison
LG - Possible draft pick or stop gap FA (no, I don’t want Fortner starting at all)
C - Cushenberry/Williams
RG - Hunt
RT - 1st round pick
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#35

(02-06-2024, 04:58 PM)wg171 Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 04:52 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: I don't know if that is ideal. The chances of us addressing C, RG, and LG with viable, dependable starters in FA is pretty slim. I also don't want to rely on the draft for that. We have to protect Trevor and replacing 4 starters on the line just seems iffy, especially when you're just factoring in replacing starters and leaving us with the same garbage as depth.

I would like to see us restructure Cam and keep him at LT this year and keep Scherff for one more year as well. I do want to still sign 1 or 2 in FA and draft and hope to replace them next year.

Trying to free up money with cuts.

LT - Harrison
LG - Possible draft pick or stop gap FA
C  - Cushenberry/Williams
RG - Hunt
RT - 1st round pick

It's unnecessary. I get the idea of trying to clear cap space, but we have zero depth and are trying to keep Trevor alive. We had the worst O-Line last year, so trying to replace 4 starters on the line with terrible depth in one year is a terrible idea.
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#36

(02-06-2024, 04:52 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 04:49 PM)wg171 Wrote: Honestly, I’d love to see four new starters with LG probably being a stop gap for a year.

I don't know if that is ideal. The chances of us addressing C, RG, and LG with viable, dependable starters in FA is pretty slim. I also don't want to rely on the draft for that. We have to protect Trevor and replacing 4 starters on the line just seems iffy, especially when you're just factoring in replacing starters and leaving us with the same garbage as depth.

I would like to see us restructure Cam and keep him at LT this year and keep Scherff for one more year as well. I do want to still sign 1 or 2 in FA and draft and hope to replace them next year.
Scherff is as good as gone. He has a big cap hit and he's old.

And yea, a lot of us do want an entirely new Oline (more specifically interior) because they were ATROCIOUS. Bringing most of the band back together is a terrible idea.

Little FA JPJ Hunt Harrison

This is how I would try to tackle the Oline in the offseason. Little was pretty good in the 4 games he started at LT (his natural position) before they kept moving him around and then he got hurt.
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#37
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2024, 05:09 PM by wg171. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-06-2024, 05:05 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 04:58 PM)wg171 Wrote: Trying to free up money with cuts.

LT - Harrison
LG - Possible draft pick or stop gap FA
C  - Cushenberry/Williams
RG - Hunt
RT - 1st round pick

It's unnecessary. I get the idea of trying to clear cap space, but we have zero depth and are trying to keep Trevor alive. We had the worst O-Line last year, so trying to replace 4 starters on the line with terrible depth in one year is a terrible idea.

Completely agree about depth. This is the reason I can’t stand Baalke. He can’t draft in the mid to low rounds and that is necessary to provide said depth.
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#38

(02-06-2024, 05:07 PM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 04:52 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: I don't know if that is ideal. The chances of us addressing C, RG, and LG with viable, dependable starters in FA is pretty slim. I also don't want to rely on the draft for that. We have to protect Trevor and replacing 4 starters on the line just seems iffy, especially when you're just factoring in replacing starters and leaving us with the same garbage as depth.

I would like to see us restructure Cam and keep him at LT this year and keep Scherff for one more year as well. I do want to still sign 1 or 2 in FA and draft and hope to replace them next year.
Scherff is as good as gone. He has a big cap hit and he's old.

And yea, a lot of us do want an entirely new Oline (more specifically interior) because they were ATROCIOUS. Bringing most of the band back together is a terrible idea.

Little FA JPJ Hunt Harrison

This is how I would try to tackle the Oline in the offseason. Little was pretty good in the 4 games he started at LT (his natural position) before they kept moving him around and then he got hurt.

We all want the line replaced, but trying to replace four starters with zero depth is just a terrible idea.

I would be fine with cutting Scherff if we have a good option. You guys are putting a lot of faith in rookies though. Cam still outplayed Little and I'm not sold on him at LT. I'd rather move Harrison there eventually, but I'm 100% wanting us to try and restructure Cam for another year with him at LT while we build the line up more.

Guys get injured. We really, really need depth on the line or Trevor is going to die.
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#39
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2024, 05:58 PM by rpr52121.)

(02-06-2024, 05:08 PM)wg171 Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 05:05 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: It's unnecessary. I get the idea of trying to clear cap space, but we have zero depth and are trying to keep Trevor alive. We had the worst O-Line last year, so trying to replace 4 starters on the line with terrible depth in one year is a terrible idea.

Completely  agree about depth. This is the reason I can’t stand Baalke. He can’t draft in the mid to low rounds and that is necessary to provide said depth.

Everyone uses this as a big negative against Baalke, but any honest assessment of NFL drafting over years for every team and GM shows that no one has a good hit rate in the mid to low rounds. Every few years, 1 team will strike big and it is typically a one off. 

The issue with Baalke (and Caldwell before him) is the top of the draft, 1st and 2nd round picks. Those have to hit more often than not. Right now, he is probably 50% for 23 and 22. 21 is just really TBA because Little/Campbell have had injuries and been up/down, and Ettiene -- while good -- was likely over drafted due to position.

(02-06-2024, 09:39 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(02-06-2024, 09:37 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: Bring him back if the price is right.

The price is ~$4.4 million dollars of cap space that would be saved if he was released.

Which is the issue. Even finding an upgrade at WR for $4.4 million in an undervalued FA, UDFA, or late round draft pick would be home run. Plus that isn't that much to help any other position group either.
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#40
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2024, 07:24 PM by AnOldBrownie. Edited 1 time in total.)

IF Zay is 100% healthy...he's an easy keep and we let Calvin go and use one of the first two picks to bring in a Marvin Jones Jr. type receiver that's younger than Ridley.

BUT, if Zay has lost ANYTHING...like it looked in the second half of the season...I'm not so sure we need to keep him.

We need to get past the thinking that rookie receivers can't provide a Zay Jones like production. 5th round receivers probably can't, but a 1st or 2nd round receiver should be able to replace that production .
Black Jaguar: Yeah, it's a thing.

Brandon Scherff is no longer that dude.   Next season I want him gone.

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