https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/v...le-hunter/

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https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/v...le-hunter/

In 2022 he finished 23rd out of 64 per your PFF source, ie one of the better guards in the League. Keep trying, though; it's a nice chuckle every time I see you post.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Exactly dip [BLEEP], you don't have a clue. But like all good teachers I'll keep helping you learn. Some day you might have an opinion worth readng.

Teacher?  That will be the day hell freezes over.  Like Cleveland and his 46 pff grade with the Jags?  Lol Cluless as usual

That's kind of an indictment of our O-line coach, isn't it?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Teacher?  That will be the day hell freezes over.  Like Cleveland and his 46 pff grade with the Jags?  Lol Cluless as usual

That's kind of an indictment of our O-line coach, isn't it?

If you look at his game log, he got hurt week 7 last year and he underperformed the rest of the season. After the injury in week 7 he didn't play again until week 11 with us and it's clear he was not 100% the rest of the way. Some people can't see outside the border of Duval county to actually make an informed opinion, but maybe they should of looked a little harder.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Exactly dip [BLEEP], you don't have a clue. But like all good teachers I'll keep helping you learn. Some day you might have an opinion worth readng.

Teacher?  That will be the day hell freezes over.  Like Cleveland and his 46 pff grade with the Jags?  Lol Cluless as usual

So a LG that came here already on the injury report after being held out of games with that injury in Minn. --  played a small sample with said injury that was reportedly re-aggravated in Jax -  and you are all in on his PFF grade after you literally posted 3 days ago "[BLEEP] the grades" concerning another OL player. 

Makes sense.

I don't claim to know Ezra Cleveland's ceiling and floor when healthy - but I know we haven't seen it here.
The staff will need to decide if he can get healthy, stay that way, and play well enough to earn his market value. 

I'm fine with them looking elsewhere for a LG, but he actually may not be a bad option. Those grades you are stuck on had him as an upper tier guard pre-injury.

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Teacher?  That will be the day hell freezes over.  Like Cleveland and his 46 pff grade with the Jags?  Lol Cluless as usual

So a LG that came here already on the injury report after being held out of games with that injury in Minn. --  played a small sample with said injury that was reportedly re-aggravated in Jax -  and you are all in on his PFF grade after you literally posted 3 days ago "[BLEEP] the grades" concerning another OL player. 

Makes sense.

I don't claim to know Ezra Cleveland's ceiling and floor when healthy - but I know we haven't seen it here.
The staff will need to decide if he can get healthy, stay that way, and play well enough to earn his market value. 

I'm fine with them looking elsewhere for a LG, but he actually may not be a bad option. Those grades you are stuck on had him as an upper tier guard pre-injury.

If it's a reasonable deal that can be worked out I think you aim to keep him. You forked over a draft pick for him. Might as well try and maximize the most out of it. He may also offer swing tackle potential and he seems willing and eager to make that type of move to begin with.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Teacher?  That will be the day hell freezes over.  Like Cleveland and his 46 pff grade with the Jags?  Lol Cluless as usual

That's kind of an indictment of our O-line coach, isn't it?

I believe thats part of it.  That, injury, and player regression.  Not a good mix.  Vinings found a FA guard that they signed for up to 4 mil a year that was an upgrade so they got whatever they could for him and the most they could get was a 6th.   His play regressed before the injuries though. 

 If we could get him for cheap, 3 to 4 mil a year like the Vikings did with the better player in Risner I would be good with it and he can compete with a rookie and possibly Little again.  I think you could get guys like Dotson, Biadasz, and Cushenberry for the same money that Ezra will want and would rather spend that money on the latter. 

 I'm a more what have you done lately when it comes to blocking for our franchise QB.  This year, fixing our oline is the most important in this franchises history at getting this right.  This could define Trevor's career and I don't want him to end up like Luck.

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Teacher?  That will be the day hell freezes over.  Like Cleveland and his 46 pff grade with the Jags?  Lol Cluless as usual

So a LG that came here already on the injury report after being held out of games with that injury in Minn. --  played a small sample with said injury that was reportedly re-aggravated in Jax -  and you are all in on his PFF grade after you literally posted 3 days ago "[BLEEP] the grades" concerning another OL player. 

Makes sense.

I don't claim to know Ezra Cleveland's ceiling and floor when healthy - but I know we haven't seen it here.
The staff will need to decide if he can get healthy, stay that way, and play well enough to earn his market value. 

I'm fine with them looking elsewhere for a LG, but he actually may not be a bad option. Those grades you are stuck on had him as an upper tier guard pre-injury.

I really don't give a [BLEEP] about his pff grade either but he sucked just going by the eye test.  I'm going by watching him at LG in a Jags uni, the grades just match the play.  Walker has a low PFF grade but I think he was damn good and much improved and played much better than his grade.  I think Harrison played better than his grade but his run D is why he has a low grade so that one makes sense.  I think Harrison is a natural LT and I think it's 50/50 if he will be our LT next year.  If we cut Cam I'd give it 80% that Harrison will be our LT next year

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So a LG that came here already on the injury report after being held out of games with that injury in Minn. --  played a small sample with said injury that was reportedly re-aggravated in Jax -  and you are all in on his PFF grade after you literally posted 3 days ago "[BLEEP] the grades" concerning another OL player. 

Makes sense.

I don't claim to know Ezra Cleveland's ceiling and floor when healthy - but I know we haven't seen it here.
The staff will need to decide if he can get healthy, stay that way, and play well enough to earn his market value. 

I'm fine with them looking elsewhere for a LG, but he actually may not be a bad option. Those grades you are stuck on had him as an upper tier guard pre-injury.

I really don't give a [BLEEP] about his pff grade either but he sucked just going by the eye test.  I'm going by watching him at LG in a Jags uni, the grades just match the play.  Walker has a low PFF grade but I think he was damn good and much improved and played much better than his grade.  I think Harrison played better than his grade but his run D is why he has a low grade so that one makes sense.  I think Harrison is a natural LT and I think it's 50/50 if he will be our LT next year.  If we cut Cam I'd give it 80% that Harrison will be our LT next year

You cited the grade here multiple times and still state you don't give a damn about it, and you have refused to even address the players' injuries. 

(Little and Harrison played hurt too)  

I think you've formulated an opinion on Cleveland that is not considering an important variable. 

The staff at EverBank may end up deciding he's not good enough for a market value contract  - but you can bet your bottom dollar they are going to be taking to doctors and trainers about his injuries and rehab progress before they decide. It matters.

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I really don't give a [BLEEP] about his pff grade either but he sucked just going by the eye test.  I'm going by watching him at LG in a Jags uni, the grades just match the play.  Walker has a low PFF grade but I think he was damn good and much improved and played much better than his grade.  I think Harrison played better than his grade but his run D is why he has a low grade so that one makes sense.  I think Harrison is a natural LT and I think it's 50/50 if he will be our LT next year.  If we cut Cam I'd give it 80% that Harrison will be our LT next year

You cited the grade here multiple times and still state you don't give a damn about it, and you have refused to even address the players' injuries. 

(Little and Harrison played hurt too)  

I think you've formulated an opinion on Cleveland that is not considering an important variable. 

The staff at EverBank may end up deciding he's not good enough for a market value contract  - but you can bet your bottom dollar they are going to be taking to doctors and trainers about his injuries and rehab progress before they decide. It matters.

When you watch a player play like [BLEEP] and look at the PFF grade and see that it's worse or close to Fortners it confirms it.  I loved they trade when it happened and then i looked more into it and watched him play.  Most players play hurt and of course they will talk to doctors on all the players.    You have to do that with every player you bring in.  It's possible they have seen his play decline and want to go another route even if healthy.  Little was much better the year before but he was hurt last year as well, with that said I'm not sure I want to cut Cam and plug in Little at LT because of the way he played this past year and I'm a big fan of Little.  If we just look how players played a few years ago I'm cutting Cam and plugging Little in a LT and he's the LT of the future. It's possible they will be looking to upgrade regardless of the injury

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Lol, a blind idiot claiming he's all about the eye test when it suits him.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Lol, a blind idiot claiming he's all about the eye test when it suits him.

Ray Charles and Forrest Gump could see it dummy.  Of course you haven't because you have no clue what you're looking at.  Just like you have been pro Fortner this whole time he has sucked [BLEEP] and trying to get our QB killed for the last 2 years.  Your oline plan sucks year after year.  " Draft Neal at one"  "keep Fortner at center"  "Cleveland is good, extend him " it's a long list each year. Try coming up with a good plan for the oline

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Lol, a blind idiot claiming he's all about the eye test when it suits him.

Ray Charles and Forrest Gump could see it dummy.  Of course you haven't because you have no clue what you're looking at.  Just like you have been pro Fortner this whole time he has sucked [BLEEP] and trying to get our QB killed for the last 2 years.  Your oline plan sucks year after year.  " Draft Neal at one"  "keep Fortner at center"  "Cleveland is good, extend him " it's a long list each year.  Try coming up with a good plan for the oline

Check my posts this year jack [BLEEP], I wanted Fortner out already. Rookie assessments are stupid, so of course you jump on them. He got a pass year as rookies should. Neal was fine, went to a crap team, like Walker here when all the dolts jumped him last year. Cleveland is good you fool, your eyes are broken. I've pushed for line help for years, so I guess you can't read or understand pro football.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Switch to a 4-3 defense, extend Allen, keep Smoot for depth if reasonable, get rid of Chaisson asap, Ridley I'm okay either way, Herndon keep to compete at Nickel which will be a big priority position for us. Keep Robinson, Cleveland if we can't find a better interior OL to really upgrade that unit. Agnew is not as explosive and is playing a position that is phasing out of the league. I think we've found out that he is not a reliable receiver. Some other team might actually want him though. Let Robinson take the SS job from Jenkins and move on from him.

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Switch to a 4-3 defense,  extend Allen,  keep Smoot for depth if reasonable,  get rid of Chaisson asap,  Ridley I'm okay either way,  Herndon keep to compete at Nickel which will be a big priority position for us.  Keep Robinson, Cleveland if we can't find a better interior OL to really upgrade that unit.  Agnew is not as explosive and is playing a position that is phasing out of the league.  I think we've found out that he is not a reliable receiver.  Some other team might actually want him though.  Let Robinson take the SS job from Jenkins and move on from him.

Why are people so upset about the defensive scheme, wether its 3-4 or 4-4 it doesnt matter. Majority of the time teams in the nfl arent even lined up in those formations...

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Switch to a 4-3 defense,  extend Allen,  keep Smoot for depth if reasonable,  get rid of Chaisson asap,  Ridley I'm okay either way,  Herndon keep to compete at Nickel which will be a big priority position for us.  Keep Robinson, Cleveland if we can't find a better interior OL to really upgrade that unit.  Agnew is not as explosive and is playing a position that is phasing out of the league.  I think we've found out that he is not a reliable receiver.  Some other team might actually want him though.  Let Robinson take the SS job from Jenkins and move on from him.

Why are people so upset about the defensive scheme, wether its 3-4 or 4-4 it doesnt matter. Majority of the time teams in the nfl arent even lined up in those formations...

It matters because we don't draft players who are a good fit for our supposed base defense. We have Travon Walker who should be playing with his hand in the dirt at DE or DT running around in coverage. We drafted Lloyd and Muma who are a better fit at Wil and Mike respectively than either ILB in a 34. Our best defenders, Allen and Foye, are suited to Sam and Mike as well. We lack any guy on the roster who can play nose tackle as is needed, but have 4 guys who fit the 34 end mold better than the 43 DT one. That's why it matters.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Why are people so upset about the defensive scheme, wether its 3-4 or 4-4 it doesnt matter. Majority of the time teams in the nfl arent even lined up in those formations...

It matters because we don't draft players who are a good fit for our supposed base defense. We have Travon Walker who should be playing with his hand in the dirt at DE or DT running around in coverage. We drafted Lloyd and Muma who are a better fit at Wil and Mike respectively than either ILB in a 34. Our best defenders, Allen and Foye, are suited to Sam and Mike as well. We lack any guy on the roster who can play nose tackle as is needed, but have 4 guys who fit the 34 end mold better than the 43 DT one. That's why it matters.

But doesn’t that change with how much nickel teams play now? It essentially becomes a 2-4 a lot of the time right? Atleast thats what the GOAT Belichick GOD of defenses said. So yes, 3-4 4-3 is irrelevant in todays league.  Teams play out of the Nickel and Dime (more defensive backs) defenses more.

When teams ran more, 4-3 was better for stopping the run and as a base defense. 3-4 was better at rushing the passer, but worse at stopping the run

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FWIW - a blurb on Zay and his 2023 injury

https://twitter.com/JustonLewis_/status/...29800?s=20

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Scherff
Smoot
Chaisson
Ridley 
D'Ernest Johnson
Fotukasi
Tim Jones

Those players don't need to be brought back.

Fortner should be gone too...but he's a serviceable backup.

Sign Fletcher Cox to a 1 year contract. Make him your highest paid interior lineman.

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Black Jaguar: Yeah, it's a thing.

It was always the Jags!!!!

So looking at our upcoming coming FA'S. We currently have $12.9m in cap to spend but none of these players are included with that cap figure so would need to be resigned using the $12.9m and/or more cuts/restructure of other contracts.

Our upcoming FA'S are 

Josh Allen 
Agnew
Smoot
Chaisson
Ridley
Herndon
Shatley
McManus
Ezra Cleveland 
D'Ernest Johnson

Then we have those bottom of the roster players

Hence
Shaq Quarterman
Van Lanen
Daniel Thomas
Tim Jones 
Claybrooke
Gregory Junior.

There's some very tough decisions on that list. Josh is a must sign and would be nice not to have to franchise tag him. I'd like to keep Agnew but it would need to be a team friendly deal. Smoot is a tough competitor and a good depth option, I'd like to keep Cleveland but not sure what he'd be after money wise.

Herndon is a tough one. I'm not his biggest fan but could be good to have as a 4th/5th CB on the depth chart but it would need to be a team friendly deal and I think we can find an improvement in the draft. McManus was doing well until his late season collapse.

Ridley is the big question mark. You'd need to cut or restructure a few probably to keep him and I have no idea what kind of money he would expect. I'd be interested to hear the coaches and Trevors opinions from working with him everyday as on gameday he's been very up and down.

So who you keeping and who you showing the door?

I already did this in the "you're the GM" thread but this thread is getting more action, so...

Josh Allen - sign to a mega deal
Agnew - let him walk - love the player and return ability but Washington plus a late rounder can compete
Smoot -  Love the work ethic - but we need to revamp the interior and the edge depth - aim higher
Chaisson - bye
Ridley - tag or sign to bargain incentive laden deal
Herndon - bye - new DC incoming - time to give that guy what he needs in the secondary
Shatley - bye - should have been gone after 2022
McManus - sign cheaply to 1 year deal - add a UDFA and let them battle in camp
Ezra Cleveland - I'd sign as cheaply as possible and add a draft pick 
D'Ernest Johnson - give him a 2 year deal just over vet minimum - quality depth with ST ability - saw some excellent screen plays from him in 2023

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Hance

Shaq Quarterman
Van Lanen
Daniel Thomas
Tim Jones 
Claybrooke
Gregory Junior.

We can do better than all these guys. 
Claybrooks is our best gunner on ST - but offers nothing elsewhere
Thomas is a decent but not good backup safety who is good on ST, not great - prolly upgradeable but ST coach may fight to retain him
Junior may be eligible for a RFA deal cheaply - let new DC decide

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