Yes - William Trevor Lawrence makes a conscious decision inside Fortner's brain to not even try to block the 3 tech - and he wills the rookie TE to totally whiff picking up the safety blitz, specifically so that he can run backwards, then sideways, then downfield, where he makes a boneheaded, almost inconceivable fumble.

All of that is squarely on him.

He made a terrible mistake after being put in a situation he never should have been in. 

You can ignorantly ignore the dynamics of this. I prefer to have contextual perspective. 

I'm not giving him a pass. Just context.

And like I said, while you can blame the O line on him running away, you cannot blame them for him dropping the ball for no reason under no contact. 

This is why we can still say ETN is a good RB despite having bad YPC numbers this season, while also saying Tank Bigsby was a dissapointment. ETN may not have been an effecient runner this season due to the O line, but he also wasn't fumbling/dropping passes consistently like Bigsby. 

Self inflicted mistakes are the issue, not that he wasn't overly effecient behind a poor line.

I chopped off your legs but blame you for not running a 4 minute mile. I gave you an empty rifle but blame you not bagging that 12 point. I gave you a UPS truck with an empty tank but blame you for not getting your packages delivered on time. I let the QB get his [BLEEP] beat for 12 games and you blame him for deteriorating play. You ignore cause and effect to support your dogged stubbornness and I just chuckle.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yes - William Trevor Lawrence makes a conscious decision inside Fortner's brain to not even try to block the 3 tech - and he wills the rookie TE to totally whiff picking up the safety blitz, specifically so that he can run backwards, then sideways, then downfield, where he makes a boneheaded, almost inconceivable fumble.

All of that is squarely on him.

He made a terrible mistake after being put in a situation he never should have been in. 

You can ignorantly ignore the dynamics of this. I prefer to have contextual perspective. 

I'm not giving him a pass. Just context.

And like I said, while you can blame the O line on him running away, you cannot blame them for him dropping the ball for no reason under no contact. 

This is why we can still say ETN is a good RB despite having bad YPC numbers this season, while also saying Tank Bigsby was a dissapointment. ETN may not have been an effecient runner this season due to the O line, but he also wasn't fumbling/dropping passes consistently like Bigsby. 

Self inflicted mistakes are the issue, not that he wasn't overly effecient behind a poor line.

This is another good opportunity for context in my opinion. 

Tank's turnovers had their own external factors. And your favorite antagonist played a role in at least one of them.
Trevor waited too long to check to him on one of those AND then delivered a 90MPH laser to a rookie RB. Put the kid in a tough position to salvage the snap and it became a tipped INT. 

This is actually somewhat on Trevor IMO. I love that he wants to make the big play - but he's got to learn when to play it safe and learn how to come off the hero ball route quicker to meet his check downs before their break/route has expired and gets blown up. 

I say all that to come back to the point - I'm taking that Bigsby mistake with a healthy grain of salt because he was put in a very less than ideal situation - the same way I see Trevor's unplanned scrambles that he eventually fumbled.

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Most of his fumbles are squarely on him - but it is hilarious that you can't comprehend how he shouldn't be running for his like on designed pass plays (and fumbling as a result)

I can comprehend it, Do you think my hope for the offseason is to find 4 brand new starters on the O line because they are good?

You just can't seem to seperate one from the other, Like I said the other day he's obviously hindered from succeeding by this terrible unit. It's still very easy to seperate what is squarely on him, and what's not. You can blame the O line on a fumble/int when the defender is under hsi nose or in the process of sacking him.. you cannot blame them for him running away and dropping the ball without contact or sailing a pass above the WRs head when he had time to throw.

might it be because they are not separate?

if nobody is open and pass rush is squeezing through the pores of our linemen, the choice is run for your life or turn turtle. Yes, Trevor has to be mindful of ball security, but if he had a brief moment more on those plays, someone might get open and afford us a pass on the alleged pass play.

they're all interrelated - proper situational play calls, receivers running correct routes, getting separation, line (and RB) blocking, QB awareness - if any one of those fails the play is left to improvisation.

Lamar could be the most fumble-fingered QB in the history of the league, but if he has 7+ seconds per pass play before pressure gets to him as was the case when we played, it sure ain't gonna result in a lot of turnovers. Not saying anyone should ever expect a 7-second pocket, but it shows how one factor influences the other.

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I think the most likely scenario is that the source who "heard" Doug preferred one guy and TB preferred another just doesn't know the whole story of the interview and eval process - and the braintrust agreed on Nielsen with Doug in the driver's seat on the call. 

But since the fanbase is so close to tar and feathers after 5 losses to squander the season late - everyone is jumping to conclusions seeking scapegoats.

Nah man, the people have spoken and they want the soap opera to be true, so that's what we're running with.  

The Jags should really consider filming "back stage" interactions WWE style.  People would lap it up.  I want to see draft war room chairs fly and tables get flipped and angry stares coming from Doug and Trent at each other with heavy mouth breathing.

Doug and Baalke roided out of their minds....where do I sign up?

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Yes - William Trevor Lawrence makes a conscious decision inside Fortner's brain to not even try to block the 3 tech - and he wills the rookie TE to totally whiff picking up the safety blitz, specifically so that he can run backwards, then sideways, then downfield, where he makes a boneheaded, almost inconceivable fumble.

All of that is squarely on him.

He made a terrible mistake after being put in a situation he never should have been in. 

You can ignorantly ignore the dynamics of this. I prefer to have contextual perspective. 

I'm not giving him a pass. Just context.

And like I said, while you can blame the O line on him running away, you cannot blame them for him dropping the ball for no reason under no contact. 

This is why we can still say ETN is a good RB despite having bad YPC numbers this season, while also saying Tank Bigsby was a dissapointment. ETN may not have been an effecient runner this season due to the O line, but he also wasn't fumbling/dropping passes consistently like Bigsby. 

Self inflicted mistakes are the issue, not that he wasn't overly effecient behind a poor line.

1 play = all the plays.

by this logic, we should expect 60-yard TD bombs to Ridley every time, too. He did it that one time, so it has to happen every time.

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Nah man, the people have spoken and they want the soap opera to be true, so that's what we're running with.  

The Jags should really consider filming "back stage" interactions WWE style.  People would lap it up.  I want to see draft war room chairs fly and tables get flipped and angry stares coming from Doug and Trent at each other with heavy mouth breathing.

Jags twitter is less than a step away from this ^ sadly

It's like the old comments section under the O-Zone posts circa 2014

It's just funny to me what people will allow themselves to believe from unverified sources and the conclusions they'll reach from that or partial information in general.  I guess unsurprisingly we haven't evolved much as a species in 300+ years.  I think in large part for some it has to do with believing the current rumors somehow validates their prior negative opinion about Baalke, which was quelled somewhat during the '22 late season run.  I would add that the foundation for the prior negative opinion of Baalke was made up of a house of cards of other fan interpretations and opinions about what happened in SF combined with a very upset fan base here given Meyer's tumultuous tenure. 

There will be differences of opinion on roster construction and perhaps at times staffing or other matters between Trent and Doug.  That would be the whole point for having 2 or more people make such decisions rather than just 1.  A healthy braintrust invites dissent and hashes that stuff out, but we're led to believe (by an apparent echo chamber) that Doug had Trent in a choke hold a moment ago, and Trent just somehow picked him up off the ground and suplexed him.  That's how it's figuratively getting hashed out in the minds of some apparently.

It's highly likely Doug's ouster in Philly was a topic of discussion during his interview process here.  It's highly likely Doug expressed his concerns for walking into a similar structure and scenario.  You have to be willing to believe that Khan is a bumbling idiot to then either create or allow such a scenario to be created for his HC 2 years later after having been embarrassed by Meyer.  I don't believe that a self-made billionaire is a bumbling idiot and I'd find it equally hard to believe that such a scenario is materializing here for Doug.   If nothing comes of this (and it probably won't at this point), some of you should start taking those unverified opinion based tweets with a huge grain of salt from now on.

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And like I said, while you can blame the O line on him running away, you cannot blame them for him dropping the ball for no reason under no contact. 

This is why we can still say ETN is a good RB despite having bad YPC numbers this season, while also saying Tank Bigsby was a dissapointment. ETN may not have been an effecient runner this season due to the O line, but he also wasn't fumbling/dropping passes consistently like Bigsby. 

Self inflicted mistakes are the issue, not that he wasn't overly effecient behind a poor line.

This is another good opportunity for context in my opinion. 

Tank's turnovers had their own external factors. And your favorite antagonist played a role in at least one of them.
Trevor waited too long to check to him on one of those AND then delivered a 90MPH laser to a rookie RB. Put the kid in a tough position to salvage the snap and it became a tipped INT. 

This is actually somewhat on Trevor IMO. I love that he wants to make the big play - but he's got to learn when to play it safe and learn how to come off the hero ball route quicker to meet his check downs before their break/route has expired and gets blown up. 

I say all that to come back to the point - I'm taking that Bigsby mistake with a healthy grain of salt because he was put in a very less than ideal situation - the same way I see Trevor's unplanned scrambles that he eventually fumbled.

Nah I agree with you on that one tipped pick, it wasn't the best pass. But there are again, far more examples of him making silly mistakes rather than just that one play. Whether is be fumbles, not grabbing a live ball that led to a turnover etc etc. 

Point being was that, ETN rarely makes mistakes and even tho he had a down year in YPC we all still recognize he's a good player.

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And like I said, while you can blame the O line on him running away, you cannot blame them for him dropping the ball for no reason under no contact. 

This is why we can still say ETN is a good RB despite having bad YPC numbers this season, while also saying Tank Bigsby was a dissapointment. ETN may not have been an effecient runner this season due to the O line, but he also wasn't fumbling/dropping passes consistently like Bigsby. 

Self inflicted mistakes are the issue, not that he wasn't overly effecient behind a poor line.

1 play = all the plays.

by this logic, we should expect 60-yard TD bombs to Ridley every time, too. He did it that one time, so it has to happen every time.

It was an example, he had plenty of poor plays/fumbles/ints that were 100% on him. He had a few that were on the WRs/O line but you cannot place blame for every mistake he made, on someone else. That's ignorant.

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And like I said, while you can blame the O line on him running away, you cannot blame them for him dropping the ball for no reason under no contact. 

This is why we can still say ETN is a good RB despite having bad YPC numbers this season, while also saying Tank Bigsby was a dissapointment. ETN may not have been an effecient runner this season due to the O line, but he also wasn't fumbling/dropping passes consistently like Bigsby. 

Self inflicted mistakes are the issue, not that he wasn't overly effecient behind a poor line.

1 play = all the plays.

by this logic, we should expect 60-yard TD bombs to Ridley every time, too. He did it that one time, so it has to happen every time.

It was an example, he had plenty of poor plays/fumbles/ints that were 100% on him. He had a few that were on the WRs/O line but you cannot place blame for every mistake he made, on someone else. That's ignorant.

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Completely different player when injured and playing behind this line with no pocket to throw from. That being said, some of the interceptions were terrible and the DB didn't even have to work for it. It looked like it was literally intended for them.

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Let’s discuss all of Lawrence’s good plays.

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Let’s discuss all of Lawrence’s good plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCh6lVlmpTc

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Let’s discuss all of Lawrence’s good plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCh6lVlmpTc

For ANYONE that has doubts about Lawrence, just click on this link and watch his 2nd pass. Dude put it on a rope and in stride. That is one of the toughest throws in football because the WR is at 100% speed across the field and the ball has to be on time and thrown to a spot for the receiver to catch and stay in bounds. That pass has to be a bullet, anything less will get deflected or picked.

He made it look effortless. Big time throw right there boys. He put it on Kirk’s mitts in a perfect spot from about 30 yards out.

The 2nd “Kirk Catch” Lawrence shows his finesse game. Over the CB and in front of the safety. Just another perfect pin-point pass, off his back foot. It was most likely an option route which is why Lawrence went to a quicker release platform and release point.

Man don’t get me started

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Let’s discuss all of Lawrence’s good plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCh6lVlmpTc

I think you'll also notice just how valuable Kirk is to this team. 

Trevor also was very healthy in this game and he just looked different. Way more confident.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCh6lVlmpTc

I think you'll also notice just how valuable Kirk is to this team. 

Trevor also was very healthy in this game and he just looked different. Way more confident.

That game also took a toll on him.
He got hit 8 times in that game and 2 or 3 of them were vicious. 
I remember posting that he won't last the season if that kept up. 

The next week he sustained the knee injury.

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We'll see leave their egos and it can work with Doug and Baalke, but that seems to be the problem with both of them.

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No Fun

Let’s discuss all of Lawrence’s good plays.

@You tryna kill the thread?@

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Let’s discuss all of Lawrence’s good plays.

@You tryna kill the thread?@

Nah, just of few of the posters.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato