So some are thinking Allens camp will start out with negotiations wanting Nick Bosa money at minimum who is the highest defensive player in NFL history.  If Allen's camp wants to make him the highest paid defensive player in NFL history do you give him the contract or tag him to see if he can repeat and have another year this year like he did last? Which would you do?

Bosa signed 122.5 mil guaranteed, 34 mil per year

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/49...-extension

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Pay him. By 2025 and 2026 his contract will be small fry compared to the next round of defenders due for an extension.

We've been a poverty franchise for years and until this team can prove that can it draft as well as teams such as San Francisco, Green Bay, Baltimore or Kansas City it has no business just casually toying with above average to elite caliber talent.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Are those the only 2 options?

Also from Spot trac
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/so...limit-100/

1) Khalil Mack OUTSIDE LINEBACKER 6 Years -- 141 Million
2) Joey Bosa OUTSIDE LINEBACKER 5 Years -- 135 Million (someone tried to tell me he was a DE and not listed as a LB)
3) TJ Watt OUTSIDE LINEBACKER 4 Years -- 112 Million

It will depend a lot on guaranteed money...

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Ahh so the only two possible options are either the highest paid Defensive player ever, or the tag, nothing else right? Hilarious.

And who besides you keeps spewing the "Allen's camping will only start negotiations at highest paid Defensive player ever at min".

All I've seen is Baalke's dumb [BLEEP] sayin a bunch of bull [BLEEP] about them being far off in negotiations and Allen's camp coming out and saying that's false because there has been zero contact at all between the two sides. Meaning no talk at all, let alone even negotiations starting.

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Are those the only 2 options?

Also from Spot trac
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/so...limit-100/

1) Khalil Mack  OUTSIDE LINEBACKER  6 Years -- 141 Million
2) Joey Bosa  OUTSIDE LINEBACKER  5 Years -- 135 Million  (someone tried to tell me he was a DE and not listed as a LB)
3) TJ Watt  OUTSIDE LINEBACKER  4 Years -- 112 Million 

It will depend a lot on guaranteed money...

Yes, guaranteed.  Bosas is 122.5 mil.  34 mil per year.
170 million dollar deal

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Ahh so the only two possible options are either the highest paid Defensive player ever, or the tag, nothing else right? Hilarious.

And who besides you keeps spewing the "Allen's camping will only start negotiations at highest paid Defensive player ever at min".

All I've seen is Baalke's dumb [BLEEP] sayin a bunch of bull [BLEEP] about them being far off in negotiations and Allen's camp coming out and saying that's false because there has been zero contact at all between the two sides. Meaning no talk at all, let alone even negotiations starting.

flsprtsgrl said it that's where the negotiations will start.

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Are those the only 2 options?

Also from Spot trac
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/so...limit-100/

1) Khalil Mack  OUTSIDE LINEBACKER  6 Years -- 141 Million
2) Joey Bosa  OUTSIDE LINEBACKER  5 Years -- 135 Million  (someone tried to tell me he was a DE and not listed as a LB)
3) TJ Watt  OUTSIDE LINEBACKER  4 Years -- 112 Million 

It will depend a lot on guaranteed money...

Yes, guaranteed.  Bosas is 122.5 mil.  34 mil per year.
170 million dollar deal

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[quote pid="1607826" dateline="1706500309"]
 being far off in negotiations and Allen's camp coming out and saying that's false because there has been zero contact at all between the two sides. Meaning no talk at all, let alone even negotiations starting.

[/quote]

Looked at spot trac and it shows 5 years 135 million, 27 mill AAV, Sign Bonus 35 Mill, Guaranteed at signing 78mill, Practical guaranteed 102 million

over the cap has different numbers...which is it? lol

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

I would try to talk to him about how much winning a SB means to him.

Because Chris Jones and Aaron Donald are the only "pass rushers" that have won SB's while making top money (e.g. % of the cap) in the past decade or so. Even Von Miller wasn't making >10% of the cap back when Denver won a title. Even if you want to look at teams who are consistently elite, only San Fran has consistently had high $$ money resources in PR/Edge. They have done so because they don't have to pay their QB, which the Jags will have to in a few years.

So I would basically offer like a huge bonuses for DPoY votes and All Pro selections. Like way more than you normally see, like $1 million per all Pro selection, and like $10-5K per voting point in DPoY voting. Because that is the type of production you need from a guy making that amount of money on the DL in order to win. Otherwise it just doesn't work.

I think you have to figure out some contract that has most of the cap space hit in first few years of the contract instead of having backloaded like it normally is. But I think at this point they basically have no choice to pay him. They have so many other holes on the team, and there are no force multipliers in the FO or coaching staff to expect them to use the cap space gain/draft picks well if they trade Allen.

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I ain’t tagging 17.5 sacks (*18.5) so he can holdout

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Ahh so the only two possible options are either the highest paid Defensive player ever, or the tag, nothing else right? Hilarious.

And who besides you keeps spewing the "Allen's camping will only start negotiations at highest paid Defensive player ever at min".

All I've seen is Baalke's dumb [BLEEP] sayin a bunch of bull [BLEEP] about them being far off in negotiations and Allen's camp coming out and saying that's false because there has been zero contact at all between the two sides. Meaning no talk at all, let alone even negotiations starting.

Yes, in his mind there are only two options and he's quick to peg anyone who disagrees with his myopic thinking as inflexible. Meanwhile he wants to tag Allen for two years lol.

I said that Allen's team should be using that as their baseline for negotiating and this guy thinks his team should be negotiating lower. Because that's what agents do, look for reasons to lower their contract demands.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I would pay him like top 3 at his position. If we can’t come to an agreement, tag!

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So some are thinking Allens camp will start out with negotiations wanting Nick Bosa money at minimum who is the highest defensive player in NFL history.  If Allen's camp wants to make him the highest paid defensive player in NFL history do you give him the contract or tag him to see if he can repeat and have another year this year like he did last? Which would you do?

Bosa signed 122.5 mil guaranteed, 34 mil per year

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/49...-extension

Always remember that last year's "highest paid contract" becomes the new baseline for any negotiations the next season. In your binary world you would use the tag if his camp doesn't negotiate down to your level. In the real world that has pretty broad implications as I posted in the other thread where you were on this tangent. The tag should be the last resort, not a hammer that you walk into the discussion resting over your shoulder like you're Thor wielding Mjolnir.

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I would  pay him like top 3 at his position. If we can’t come to an agreement, tag!

Exactly and reasonable. This whole thread is the OP strawmanning my comment that the most recent is merely a baseline for current negotiations.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Well, the poll is certainly lacking in options, LOL

It's a negotiation.
There are many ways for a team to structure a big time contract and this will almost certainly be one.

I think they may tag him until they can iron out a deal - and that deal will either be the biggest edge deal yet or damn close to it. He'll probably sign it just before camp like Engram did last year.

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Ahh so the only two possible options are either the highest paid Defensive player ever, or the tag, nothing else right? Hilarious.

And who besides you keeps spewing the "Allen's camping will only start negotiations at highest paid Defensive player ever at min".

All I've seen is Baalke's dumb [BLEEP] sayin a bunch of bull [BLEEP] about them being far off in negotiations and Allen's camp coming out and saying that's false because there has been zero contact at all between the two sides. Meaning no talk at all, let alone even negotiations starting.

TBF -

Baalke was asked where they were at in the negotiation and he said jokingly - 
"Pretty far away - because we haven't started yet."

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Jags should pay hm to keep him, but i can see them not paying him, and letting him walk.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

He's an outside linebacker and that's where his salary will be slotted at. If we're being realistic. He's going to get a massive deal. Whether it's here or elsewhere. Somebody is going to pay him. Just eyeballing some of the highest paid players on Spotrac, it goes:

Khalil Mack - 6 years at $141M / $23.5M signing bonus / $90M guaranteed - Started in 2014 - 101.5 career sacks, has racked up 25.0 those sacks since signing. 124 tackles.

Joey Bosa - 5 years at $135M / $27M signing bonus / $102M guaranteed - Started in 2016 - 67 career sacks, injuries have slowed him down tremendously since signing.

T.J Watt - 4 years at $112M / $28M signing bonus / $80M guaranteed - Started in 2017 - Absolute monster, honestly underpaid, probably due for new deal soon. 

Bradley Chubb - 5 years at $110M / $22M signing bonus / $53M guaranteed - Started in 2018 - Injuries earlier on, playing better, coming off his best year since rookie season.

Rashan Gary - 4 years at $96M / $34M signing bonus / $34M guaranteed - Started in 2019 - Probably overpaid but I have no clue what his role requires. 31.5 sacks and 179 career tackles seems lack luster to me on paper. 

Those are your top five guys at Josh Allen's respective position. Here is what Josh Allen has done. 

Started in 2019, has 45 career sacks, 251 career tackles, missed half of his second season but he's remained relatively consistent since his rookie year, he's been a guy that gets you a minimum of 7.0 sacks while also getting after it as a run defender, he's only 26 years old, coming off his best year yet with 17.5 sacks. Again, he's going to get paid. 

My best guess, after looking at everything above. I think Josh Allen's contract more than likely commands the following standards or it's at least apart of the conversation. 

1. He's clearly ascending and not anywhere near his peak yet at the age of 26. 
2. He's been consistent since his rookie season, minus year two with the injury. 
3. He's a leader in the locker room. 
4. He's performed in spite of being surrounded by less effective talent around him. 
5. He's more of a well rounded player and more durable than the likes of guys like Joey Bosa and Rashan Gary higher above him in the pay scale. 

I think, you're looking at something to the tune of, 6 years, $135.2M, $36M signing bonus, and $93M guaranteed. He has the production, the age, the consistency, the ascension, the durability, the well roundedness and leadership in his favor. If Baalke gets him for anything cheaper than that I would be not only impressed but pleasantly surprised.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Have to keep him. Sometimes the market dictates a high salary

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Have to keep him. Sometimes the market dictates a high salary

His deal will be peanuts after T.J Watt, Micah Parsons & Danielle Hunter get paid again. I could argue that Brian Burns possibly gets himself a massive deal given his age and consistency as well. 

He would be a top three - five paid outside backer for a season or two and then quickly fall out of that spot as the salary cap ceiling is raised and everybody else that's better than him or has ascended faster get their new extensions. 

It's not a big deal in the long run. And, again, who the hell are you replacing him with and who do you trust in this front office to get that accomplished? The odds are heavily stacked against you in my opinion.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

He's an outside linebacker and that's where his salary will be slotted at. If we're being realistic. He's going to get a massive deal. Whether it's here or elsewhere. Somebody is going to pay him. Just eyeballing some of the highest paid players on Spotrac, it goes:

Khalil Mack - 6 years at $141M / $23.5M signing bonus / $90M guaranteed - Started in 2014 - 101.5 career sacks, has racked up 25.0 those sacks since signing. 124 tackles.

Joey Bosa - 5 years at $135M / $27M signing bonus / $102M guaranteed - Started in 2016 - 67 career sacks, injuries have slowed him down tremendously since signing.

T.J Watt - 4 years at $112M / $28M signing bonus / $80M guaranteed - Started in 2017 - Absolute monster, honestly underpaid, probably due for new deal soon. 

Bradley Chubb - 5 years at $110M / $22M signing bonus / $53M guaranteed - Started in 2018 - Injuries earlier on, playing better, coming off his best year since rookie season.

Rashan Gary - 4 years at $96M / $34M signing bonus / $34M guaranteed - Started in 2019 - Probably overpaid but I have no clue what his role requires. 31.5 sacks and 179 career tackles seems lack luster to me on paper. 

Those are your top five guys at Josh Allen's respective position. Here is what Josh Allen has done. 

Started in 2019, has 45 career sacks, 251 career tackles, missed half of his second season but he's remained relatively consistent since his rookie year, he's been a guy that gets you a minimum of 7.0 sacks while also getting after it as a run defender, he's only 26 years old, coming off his best year yet with 17.5 sacks. Again, he's going to get paid. 

My best guess, after looking at everything above. I think Josh Allen's contract more than likely commands the following standards or it's at least apart of the conversation. 

1. He's clearly ascending and not anywhere near his peak yet at the age of 26. 
2. He's been consistent since his rookie season, minus year two with the injury. 
3. He's a leader in the locker room. 
4. He's performed in spite of being surrounded by less effective talent around him. 
5. He's more of a well rounded player and more durable than the likes of guys like Joey Bosa and Rashan Gary higher above him in the pay scale. 

I think, you're looking at something to the tune of, 6 years, $135.2M, $36M signing bonus, and $93M guaranteed. He has the production, the age, the consistency, the ascension, the durability, the well roundedness and leadership in his favor. If Baalke gets him for anything cheaper than that I would be not only impressed but pleasantly surprised.

I think, for the cap's sake, that they give more up front guaranteed. With the Bosa deal they dropped him $50 million up front, so that makes his cost $10 million plus salary and bonuses for each season. That base salary for the first couple seasons made his  cap hit $11.7 and $14.4 the first two years. The third year the cost is a little over $20 then the next season they can get out for around $13 million dead money for two seasons. Obviously we want Allen to be here for most of the years of the new deal, but the structure can be such that we rework it or let him go around the time he turns 31. All this talk with the numbers thrown around is mostly for agents and headlines, it has little bearing on the actual salary cap and how the contract is structured.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

He's an outside linebacker and that's where his salary will be slotted at. If we're being realistic. He's going to get a massive deal. Whether it's here or elsewhere. Somebody is going to pay him. Just eyeballing some of the highest paid players on Spotrac, it goes:

Khalil Mack - 6 years at $141M / $23.5M signing bonus / $90M guaranteed - Started in 2014 - 101.5 career sacks, has racked up 25.0 those sacks since signing. 124 tackles.

Joey Bosa - 5 years at $135M / $27M signing bonus / $102M guaranteed - Started in 2016 - 67 career sacks, injuries have slowed him down tremendously since signing.

T.J Watt - 4 years at $112M / $28M signing bonus / $80M guaranteed - Started in 2017 - Absolute monster, honestly underpaid, probably due for new deal soon. 

Bradley Chubb - 5 years at $110M / $22M signing bonus / $53M guaranteed - Started in 2018 - Injuries earlier on, playing better, coming off his best year since rookie season.

Rashan Gary - 4 years at $96M / $34M signing bonus / $34M guaranteed - Started in 2019 - Probably overpaid but I have no clue what his role requires. 31.5 sacks and 179 career tackles seems lack luster to me on paper. 

Those are your top five guys at Josh Allen's respective position. Here is what Josh Allen has done. 

Started in 2019, has 45 career sacks, 251 career tackles, missed half of his second season but he's remained relatively consistent since his rookie year, he's been a guy that gets you a minimum of 7.0 sacks while also getting after it as a run defender, he's only 26 years old, coming off his best year yet with 17.5 sacks. Again, he's going to get paid. 

My best guess, after looking at everything above. I think Josh Allen's contract more than likely commands the following standards or it's at least apart of the conversation. 

1. He's clearly ascending and not anywhere near his peak yet at the age of 26. 
2. He's been consistent since his rookie season, minus year two with the injury. 
3. He's a leader in the locker room. 
4. He's performed in spite of being surrounded by less effective talent around him. 
5. He's more of a well rounded player and more durable than the likes of guys like Joey Bosa and Rashan Gary higher above him in the pay scale. 

I think, you're looking at something to the tune of, 6 years, $135.2M, $36M signing bonus, and $93M guaranteed. He has the production, the age, the consistency, the ascension, the durability, the well roundedness and leadership in his favor. If Baalke gets him for anything cheaper than that I would be not only impressed but pleasantly surprised.

I think, for the cap's sake, that they give more up front guaranteed. With the Bosa deal they dropped him $50 million up front, so that makes his cost $10 million plus salary and bonuses for each season. That base salary for the first couple seasons made his  cap hit $11.7 and $14.4 the first two years. The third year the cost is a little over $20 then the next season they can get out for around $13 million dead money for two seasons. Obviously we want Allen to be here for most of the years of the new deal, but the structure can be such that we rework it or let him go around the time he turns 31. All this talk with the numbers thrown around is mostly for agents and headlines, it has little bearing on the actual salary cap and how the contract is structured.

Given how this team is being constructed wouldn't we want most of his cap hit being in year 1 and 2 as you still have T-Law on the rookie deal, and you would hope that some of the young guys drafted in 22 and 23 will continue to get better and and take a larger part of the cap?

Unless you are thinking the Jags just keep pushing it back with restructures? I just worry that becomes a huge issue eventually if the team does that.

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I think, for the cap's sake, that they give more up front guaranteed. With the Bosa deal they dropped him $50 million up front, so that makes his cost $10 million plus salary and bonuses for each season. That base salary for the first couple seasons made his  cap hit $11.7 and $14.4 the first two years. The third year the cost is a little over $20 then the next season they can get out for around $13 million dead money for two seasons. Obviously we want Allen to be here for most of the years of the new deal, but the structure can be such that we rework it or let him go around the time he turns 31. All this talk with the numbers thrown around is mostly for agents and headlines, it has little bearing on the actual salary cap and how the contract is structured.

Given how this team is being constructed wouldn't we want most of his cap hit being in year 1 and 2 as you still have T-Law on the rookie deal, and you would hope that some of the young guys drafted in 22 and 23 will continue to get better and and take a larger part of the cap?

Unless you are thinking the Jags just keep pushing it back with restructures? I just worry that becomes a huge issue eventually if the team does that.

It really only becomes an issue if you push it so far out you're paying a shell of Josh Allen.  Pay that guy.

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